Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Great web site! I love the Cult Watch - 10 Points to look out for in your group members. It could be a must for people wondering about their drinking, drug use, etc. along with those 10 or 20 question tests to determine whether one is supposedly an alcoholic. Chris I love this page! > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Great web site! I love the Cult Watch - 10 Points to look out for in your group members. It could be a must for people wondering about their drinking, drug use, etc. along with those 10 or 20 question tests to determine whether one is supposedly an alcoholic. Chris I love this page! > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 it is great! anyone know who made it? apple would you do the honors of adding it to the link section since you discovered it? > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 it is great! anyone know who made it? apple would you do the honors of adding it to the link section since you discovered it? > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 If you put christianity (any religion for that mattter) to the test it comes up as a cult. (interesting) Course I've known for a long time that religion was just a scam. Not any different than the 12 steps except its been around longer. That is why I registered www.religionfree.com (Now if I can just find time to work on it) Anyone who tells you what happens after death is a bold faced liar. They have never been there. On the negative side there is no Heaven but on the Positive side the is no hell (except 90 meetings in 90 days of course) Terry I love this page! > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 i went itno aa an agnostic and left and athiest bewcuase i could see after i was in aa, the same moralistic, relgious manipualtion aa did (and lied about doing it!) was the aame bullshit the church does. i remmeber going to a church service with my family and i almost laughed thur whole thing, it was one big aa meeting. the title of the sermon that day? ......drum roll...... " Stuff Happens " and why we needed acceptence and prayer to guide us. LOL > If you put christianity (any religion for that mattter) to the test it > comes up as a cult. (interesting) > > Course I've known for a long time that religion was just a scam. Not > any different than the 12 steps except its been around longer. That is why I > registered www.religionfree.com (Now if I can just find time to work on it) > > Anyone who tells you what happens after death is a bold faced liar. > They have never been there. On the negative side there is no Heaven but > on the Positive side the is no hell (except 90 meetings in 90 days of > course) > > Terry > > > I love this page! > > > > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > > > Apple > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 i went itno aa an agnostic and left and athiest bewcuase i could see after i was in aa, the same moralistic, relgious manipualtion aa did (and lied about doing it!) was the aame bullshit the church does. i remmeber going to a church service with my family and i almost laughed thur whole thing, it was one big aa meeting. the title of the sermon that day? ......drum roll...... " Stuff Happens " and why we needed acceptence and prayer to guide us. LOL > If you put christianity (any religion for that mattter) to the test it > comes up as a cult. (interesting) > > Course I've known for a long time that religion was just a scam. Not > any different than the 12 steps except its been around longer. That is why I > registered www.religionfree.com (Now if I can just find time to work on it) > > Anyone who tells you what happens after death is a bold faced liar. > They have never been there. On the negative side there is no Heaven but > on the Positive side the is no hell (except 90 meetings in 90 days of > course) > > Terry > > > I love this page! > > > > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > > > Apple > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 i went itno aa an agnostic and left and athiest bewcuase i could see after i was in aa, the same moralistic, relgious manipualtion aa did (and lied about doing it!) was the aame bullshit the church does. i remmeber going to a church service with my family and i almost laughed thur whole thing, it was one big aa meeting. the title of the sermon that day? ......drum roll...... " Stuff Happens " and why we needed acceptence and prayer to guide us. LOL > If you put christianity (any religion for that mattter) to the test it > comes up as a cult. (interesting) > > Course I've known for a long time that religion was just a scam. Not > any different than the 12 steps except its been around longer. That is why I > registered www.religionfree.com (Now if I can just find time to work on it) > > Anyone who tells you what happens after death is a bold faced liar. > They have never been there. On the negative side there is no Heaven but > on the Positive side the is no hell (except 90 meetings in 90 days of > course) > > Terry > > > I love this page! > > > > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > > > Apple > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Great page. Thanks, Also note there section on the " LYMBIC LIZARD " . The " Beast! " . 12-step-freeegroups wrote: > > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple > > > __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Great page. Thanks, Also note there section on the " LYMBIC LIZARD " . The " Beast! " . 12-step-freeegroups wrote: > > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple > > > __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Great page. Thanks, Also note there section on the " LYMBIC LIZARD " . The " Beast! " . 12-step-freeegroups wrote: > > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple > > > __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 > Great page. Thanks, > Also note there section on the " LYMBIC LIZARD " . > The " Beast! " . Although this is by no means the most extyreme of disease model views, only attributing 1/3 of alcoholism to genetics for example - it is still very heavily disease orientated. It uses the term " chemical dependency " a disease-model term created by archetypal 12-step Hazelden and used almost exzclusively by disease model theorists. The correct non-paradigm-specific term is Substance Dependence. It also includes the myth that alcoholism can strike anyone indiscriminately. In the most literal sense this is true, however it gives the impression that social factors are irrelevant and this is most definitely not true. Substance dependence is not an " equal opportunity " disorder it is a " positive discrimination " disorder affecting those from lower social stata much more frequently. The pattern of " drugs of choice " and using habits differ markedly between different cultural groups. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm I note the link to one of Ken's pages and also the quote from Steve Hassan. Interestingly Hassan actually uses the phrase " Came to Believe " to describe the process of being " cultivated " . That is of course the beginning of Step 2 and the title of an AA book. Do they know of this site on fom Ken? They ought to. Despite how well it describes the worst of the XA phenomonon, I have just one gripe abt SOS (other than their disease orientation). I have been refused entry to an SOS listserv becuase they dont accept eating disorders as true addictions. They didnt quite say that, but that's what they meant. The religious way in which " abstinence " is made central is indicated by th e fact that they wouldnt accept a compulsion which one couldnt be abstinent from. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the foreign legion or the KKK. Ah well, like the curates egg, it was probably good in parts. Mack P.S. On a more personal note, I have most profound objections to the silliness and the potential *danger* of trying to accomplish the infamous 90/90 in a state of physical and mental bankruptsy. I am firmly of the opinion that in my case it would have probably finished the job that alcohol had almost accomplished... :-| > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the foreign legion or the KKK. Ah well, like the curates egg, it was probably good in parts. Mack P.S. On a more personal note, I have most profound objections to the silliness and the potential *danger* of trying to accomplish the infamous 90/90 in a state of physical and mental bankruptsy. I am firmly of the opinion that in my case it would have probably finished the job that alcohol had almost accomplished... :-| > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the foreign legion or the KKK. Ah well, like the curates egg, it was probably good in parts. Mack P.S. On a more personal note, I have most profound objections to the silliness and the potential *danger* of trying to accomplish the infamous 90/90 in a state of physical and mental bankruptsy. I am firmly of the opinion that in my case it would have probably finished the job that alcohol had almost accomplished... :-| > This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? > > http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm > > Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 > Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) > > Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat > LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to > start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without > recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the > foreign legion or the KKK. My God, most of these are AA slogans. SOS is really just Atheist AA! P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 > Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) > > Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat > LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to > start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without > recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the > foreign legion or the KKK. My God, most of these are AA slogans. SOS is really just Atheist AA! P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 > Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) > > Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat > LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to > start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without > recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the > foreign legion or the KKK. My God, most of these are AA slogans. SOS is really just Atheist AA! P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Carol: When was the " Beast " introduced? > Re: I love this page! > > >Great page. Thanks, >Also note there section on the " LYMBIC LIZARD " . >The " Beast! " . > > > >12-step-freeegroups wrote: >> >> This is on the SOS europe site. Rocks doesn't it? >> >> http://www.soseurope.org/sects.htm >> >> Apple >> >> >> >__________________________________________________________________ >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at >http://webmail.netscape.com/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 And in fairness, a lot of the links and pages are probably " stubs " - I guess like for many of us weavers it's a " work in progress " ! :-) Interesting one, the Shakespeare quote (I had to find that out by a websearch, I'm still a philistine. lol.) It never did seem to fit in with the overall AA mentality. Will look at unhooked... Mack > >> Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) > >> > >> Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat > >> LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to > >> start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without > >> recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the > >> foreign legion or the KKK. > > > >My God, most of these are AA slogans. SOS is really just Atheist AA! > > I can attest that ALL of them are AA slogans. There are maybe three to > five I haven't heard in meetings, and some others are variations on the > way I heard them. The only one that truly doesn't fit AA, and I rarely > heard in meetings, is on the birthday medallions and is a quote from > Shakespeare: " To thine own self be true. " A more accurate slogan in AA > would be " to thine own Home Group be true. " > In defense of SOS in the United States, while it was still a little > influenced by AA ideas, it was nothing like that page. In fact, there was > significant (and healthy) discussions of the negatives of AA. The site > at <http://www.unhooked.com> is much more representative of the SOS > meetings I attended. > > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 And in fairness, a lot of the links and pages are probably " stubs " - I guess like for many of us weavers it's a " work in progress " ! :-) Interesting one, the Shakespeare quote (I had to find that out by a websearch, I'm still a philistine. lol.) It never did seem to fit in with the overall AA mentality. Will look at unhooked... Mack > >> Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) > >> > >> Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat > >> LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to > >> start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without > >> recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the > >> foreign legion or the KKK. > > > >My God, most of these are AA slogans. SOS is really just Atheist AA! > > I can attest that ALL of them are AA slogans. There are maybe three to > five I haven't heard in meetings, and some others are variations on the > way I heard them. The only one that truly doesn't fit AA, and I rarely > heard in meetings, is on the birthday medallions and is a quote from > Shakespeare: " To thine own self be true. " A more accurate slogan in AA > would be " to thine own Home Group be true. " > In defense of SOS in the United States, while it was still a little > influenced by AA ideas, it was nothing like that page. In fact, there was > significant (and healthy) discussions of the negatives of AA. The site > at <http://www.unhooked.com> is much more representative of the SOS > meetings I attended. > > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 And in fairness, a lot of the links and pages are probably " stubs " - I guess like for many of us weavers it's a " work in progress " ! :-) Interesting one, the Shakespeare quote (I had to find that out by a websearch, I'm still a philistine. lol.) It never did seem to fit in with the overall AA mentality. Will look at unhooked... Mack > >> Yup, Indeed so, I got a lot from that! Thanks :-) > >> > >> Pity e.g. http://www.soseurope.org/slogans.htm rocks somewhat > >> LESS so... Aside: Surely to goodness it must be possible to > >> start some kind of secular support group of ex-drunks without > >> recourse to sloganeering and resemblence to signing up for the > >> foreign legion or the KKK. > > > >My God, most of these are AA slogans. SOS is really just Atheist AA! > > I can attest that ALL of them are AA slogans. There are maybe three to > five I haven't heard in meetings, and some others are variations on the > way I heard them. The only one that truly doesn't fit AA, and I rarely > heard in meetings, is on the birthday medallions and is a quote from > Shakespeare: " To thine own self be true. " A more accurate slogan in AA > would be " to thine own Home Group be true. " > In defense of SOS in the United States, while it was still a little > influenced by AA ideas, it was nothing like that page. In fact, there was > significant (and healthy) discussions of the negatives of AA. The site > at <http://www.unhooked.com> is much more representative of the SOS > meetings I attended. > > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 > And in fairness, a lot of the links and pages are probably " stubs " - > I guess like for many of us weavers it's a " work in progress " ! :-) > Interesting one, the Shakespeare quote (I had to find that out by a > websearch, I'm still a philistine. lol.) It never did seem to fit in > with the overall AA mentality. Will look at unhooked... HI Mack As someone else pointed out awhile back, most critics assess this phrase as part of a series of facile platitudes of a shallow, and ingenuous old man (Polonius) to his son (Laertes). His scheming to marry his daughter Ophelia to Hamlet was part of a train of events that led to he death of all four (plus a couple more). P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 there should be a note in all email lists, dont subscribe if you cant figure out how to unsubscribe with out annoying all the people smarted than you. > > > Great page. Thanks, > > > Also note there section on the " LYMBIC LIZARD " . > > > The " Beast! " . > > > > Although this is by no means the most extyreme of disease model views, > > only attributing 1/3 of alcoholism to genetics for example - it is > > still very heavily disease orientated. It uses the term " chemical > > dependency " a disease-model term created by archetypal 12-step > > Hazelden and used almost exzclusively by disease model theorists. The > > correct non-paradigm-specific term is Substance Dependence. > > > > It also includes the myth that alcoholism can strike anyone > > indiscriminately. In the most literal sense this is true, however it > > gives the impression that social factors are irrelevant and this is > > most definitely not true. Substance dependence is not an " equal > > opportunity " disorder it is a " positive discrimination " disorder > > affecting those from lower social stata much more frequently. The > > pattern of " drugs of choice " and using habits differ markedly between > > different cultural groups. > > > > P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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