Re: Hormones, conversion, hows and whys ... long.. but important to know and understand

February 5, 2006

Yes... even here in the states docs have to watch their backs....

On to the part that hasn't clicked in your head yet.. and don't feel bad about that a lot of folks take a while to 'get it' I did.....

First we'll talk about a body with a healthy gland....

The thyroid puts out mostly T4 hormone, with small amounts of T3, T2 and T1. Those hormones are released into the blood stream and travel throughout the body.

The T4 is, in simple terms, is stored in the tissues of the body, muscles, organs, all over... just tucked away all over until the body needs it.

The T3 and the other active hormones get used by the body for function, basically like fast food.. no prep needed.

As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making more, to do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in the blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine molecules that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules, T3 has three iodine molecules... and so on.

So the Selenium attaches to the iodine and yanks it off... now that stored T4 has been turned into a T3, ready for the body to use....

Imagine the T4 is the raw food, the selenium is the spice, the energy is the flame... your body had to cook the food to make the T3 it could use.

Now to the body that takes replacement hormone.

Our glands aren't able to make the hormone that we need to live healthy and happy so we take it in a tablet.

The hormone, once in our blood is distributed throughout our bodies... the T4 is stored in the tissues and if you are taking natural, with the active hormones, too... it gets distributed through the body and is used up.... once it's used up our bodies must convert the stored T4.

80% of the T4 that a healthy gland makes is converted into active hormone. In a body that is on replacement hormone, it converts as much as it is able, which isn't enough if there isn't enough T4 available to convert, or if you don't eat regular meals, or don't have enough selenium in your system.

Right now your last labs showed that your Free T4 was mid range but that your Free T3 was low range....

By adding the Armour you are giving your body more T4 and more T3... your question... If the T4 is already mid range won't adding the Armour make it go higher? Yes. But....

As the T4 is higher, the conversion rate goes up a bit..... so more T4 allows more T3 to be made, so the T4 then drops down a bit.

It takes four to six weeks after starting on replacement hormone, or adjusting a dose, for the body to fully adjust to that increase in available hormone and kick up it's conversion from that increase. If it's been four weeks for you... it might be a bit early to test. Your free T4 may show a bit higher, the Free T3 a bit lower, cuz the conversion hasn't fully kicked in... they body hasn't fully adjusted to what is there.

Did that help?

Now.. to confuse you some more..... As the T3 level increases, either from your body's conversion, of from adding T3 that comes in the Armour, your body has more T3 to work with, that it didn't have to make... it's extra, ready to go, no prep needed... That T3 allows the body to kick up some of the functions that it was having trouble with before, from lack of active hormone. It's not uncommon for that added T3 to be just the jump start the body needs to get it's own conversion going better again.

But you still have to help your conversion.. that means proper eating habits, small meals every three hours or so, avoiding eating things that halt conversion (soy and high fructose corn syrup are the two most common) and making sure that you are eating healthy foods and taking proper supplements.

Oh... forgot something....

Free T4 and Free T3, what are they? They are the hormones that are free and unbound in the blood and ready for the body to utilize. It is not the hormone that is available in the tissues, ready to be used. That's part of why testing levels of hormone isn't as accurate as they lead you to believe.

See... If you were to take your beds within a few hours of having your labs done, the lab tests will show high levels of hormone in your blood.... why? Cuz you just took some, it's showing what you just took.

By NOT taking your meds the morning before the blood draw and waiting until after, the labs will be showing what has accumulated in your system from the dose that you've been on for the last month and a half...... You want the labs to show what your body is doing with what you've been taking..... you don't want the labs to show what you took that morning.

So I'll repeat that part...

Do NOT take your Armour the morning before your blood draw... take it AFTER they have drawn the blood/after the visit with the doc. That way you will get the most accurate reading as to what your body is doing. ESPECIALLY with the conversion... the T3 that shows up in the test, that will be the T3 that your body made.. and that's what you need to know.

Okay... now we get to the argument that so many docs have, and the selling point of the makers of the synthetics... if your body makes most of the T3 it uses, why not just take the T4 meds and not mess with the natural?

Simple....

T4 is not the only thing that our glands make and if your body is unable to convert the synthetic it will be hypo. It doesn't matter how much T4 you take, or for how long, if your body is unable to convert enough of it to active hormone you will by hypo, you will be sick, you will get sicker and you will end up as bad as I was, or worse..... But it won't kill you. It will only make you wish you were dead.

Okay... synthetic bashing over.

The chemistry of how this all works is confusing.... and it takes a while to understand it... but it's important that you do, so that you know how it works, what to watch for, how to explain to your doc that you want to get things to be working correctly and have a life again, and not just exist.

All the hypo horror stories that you hear... that's what happens when we don't have enough hormone to function normally... Our bodies will go a long time, on REALLY low levels without actually dying... but the quality of life at that level, well... it doesn't have much of a value.

Getting the levels up, understanding how the hormones work, what you can do to help your body.. all that will allow you to be healthy again, be normal again, feel well again.....

Oh my gosh.... I'm sure in a mood today... I keep going and going and going... like the energizer bunny... shutting up now!! hehehee

Topper ()

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:03:24 -0000 "Katy" writes:

Hi Yes the tests are FreeT4 and FreeT3. And both my Doc and I agree that it's probably a conversion T4-T3 problem.I'm brand new to thyroid meds of any sort. My 1 grain Armour over the past four weeks is the first hormones I have taken - never taken synthetic. I did my homework over several years and found the right doc and was lucky enough to get put straight on to Armour :)Although my Doc is treating my symptoms, I know he has to "watch his back" because, in the worst case, Docs over here in England have been had up in front of the General Medical Council for prescribing thyroid hormones to patients with "normal" bloods, despite hypo symptoms. Thus, if my T4 goes above the highest "norm" there might be a question of having my Armour withdrawn. I'm afraid I still don't understand the answer to my original question about why taking Armour would not raise my T4 to above the "recommended" level, though - can you explain again? (Blame the brain fog.) As it contains both T4 and T3, in raising T3 won't it also raise T4, especially as T4 is the "storage" hormone?And yes I am also concerned about the T4 suppressing the TSH so much (it's low anyway) that from the bloods it looks like I am "hyper", symptoms or no. Katy

February 5, 2006

Yes... even here in the states docs have to watch their backs....

On to the part that hasn't clicked in your head yet.. and don't feel bad about that a lot of folks take a while to 'get it' I did.....

First we'll talk about a body with a healthy gland....

The thyroid puts out mostly T4 hormone, with small amounts of T3, T2 and T1. Those hormones are released into the blood stream and travel throughout the body.

The T4 is, in simple terms, is stored in the tissues of the body, muscles, organs, all over... just tucked away all over until the body needs it.

The T3 and the other active hormones get used by the body for function, basically like fast food.. no prep needed.

As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making more, to do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in the blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine molecules that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules, T3 has three iodine molecules... and so on.

So the Selenium attaches to the iodine and yanks it off... now that stored T4 has been turned into a T3, ready for the body to use....

Imagine the T4 is the raw food, the selenium is the spice, the energy is the flame... your body had to cook the food to make the T3 it could use.

Now to the body that takes replacement hormone.

Our glands aren't able to make the hormone that we need to live healthy and happy so we take it in a tablet.

The hormone, once in our blood is distributed throughout our bodies... the T4 is stored in the tissues and if you are taking natural, with the active hormones, too... it gets distributed through the body and is used up.... once it's used up our bodies must convert the stored T4.

80% of the T4 that a healthy gland makes is converted into active hormone. In a body that is on replacement hormone, it converts as much as it is able, which isn't enough if there isn't enough T4 available to convert, or if you don't eat regular meals, or don't have enough selenium in your system.

Right now your last labs showed that your Free T4 was mid range but that your Free T3 was low range....

By adding the Armour you are giving your body more T4 and more T3... your question... If the T4 is already mid range won't adding the Armour make it go higher? Yes. But....

As the T4 is higher, the conversion rate goes up a bit..... so more T4 allows more T3 to be made, so the T4 then drops down a bit.

It takes four to six weeks after starting on replacement hormone, or adjusting a dose, for the body to fully adjust to that increase in available hormone and kick up it's conversion from that increase. If it's been four weeks for you... it might be a bit early to test. Your free T4 may show a bit higher, the Free T3 a bit lower, cuz the conversion hasn't fully kicked in... they body hasn't fully adjusted to what is there.

Did that help?

Now.. to confuse you some more..... As the T3 level increases, either from your body's conversion, of from adding T3 that comes in the Armour, your body has more T3 to work with, that it didn't have to make... it's extra, ready to go, no prep needed... That T3 allows the body to kick up some of the functions that it was having trouble with before, from lack of active hormone. It's not uncommon for that added T3 to be just the jump start the body needs to get it's own conversion going better again.

But you still have to help your conversion.. that means proper eating habits, small meals every three hours or so, avoiding eating things that halt conversion (soy and high fructose corn syrup are the two most common) and making sure that you are eating healthy foods and taking proper supplements.

Oh... forgot something....

Free T4 and Free T3, what are they? They are the hormones that are free and unbound in the blood and ready for the body to utilize. It is not the hormone that is available in the tissues, ready to be used. That's part of why testing levels of hormone isn't as accurate as they lead you to believe.

See... If you were to take your beds within a few hours of having your labs done, the lab tests will show high levels of hormone in your blood.... why? Cuz you just took some, it's showing what you just took.

By NOT taking your meds the morning before the blood draw and waiting until after, the labs will be showing what has accumulated in your system from the dose that you've been on for the last month and a half...... You want the labs to show what your body is doing with what you've been taking..... you don't want the labs to show what you took that morning.

So I'll repeat that part...

Do NOT take your Armour the morning before your blood draw... take it AFTER they have drawn the blood/after the visit with the doc. That way you will get the most accurate reading as to what your body is doing. ESPECIALLY with the conversion... the T3 that shows up in the test, that will be the T3 that your body made.. and that's what you need to know.

Okay... now we get to the argument that so many docs have, and the selling point of the makers of the synthetics... if your body makes most of the T3 it uses, why not just take the T4 meds and not mess with the natural?

Simple....

T4 is not the only thing that our glands make and if your body is unable to convert the synthetic it will be hypo. It doesn't matter how much T4 you take, or for how long, if your body is unable to convert enough of it to active hormone you will by hypo, you will be sick, you will get sicker and you will end up as bad as I was, or worse..... But it won't kill you. It will only make you wish you were dead.

Okay... synthetic bashing over.

The chemistry of how this all works is confusing.... and it takes a while to understand it... but it's important that you do, so that you know how it works, what to watch for, how to explain to your doc that you want to get things to be working correctly and have a life again, and not just exist.

All the hypo horror stories that you hear... that's what happens when we don't have enough hormone to function normally... Our bodies will go a long time, on REALLY low levels without actually dying... but the quality of life at that level, well... it doesn't have much of a value.

Getting the levels up, understanding how the hormones work, what you can do to help your body.. all that will allow you to be healthy again, be normal again, feel well again.....

Oh my gosh.... I'm sure in a mood today... I keep going and going and going... like the energizer bunny... shutting up now!! hehehee

Topper ()

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:03:24 -0000 "Katy" writes:

Hi Yes the tests are FreeT4 and FreeT3. And both my Doc and I agree that it's probably a conversion T4-T3 problem.I'm brand new to thyroid meds of any sort. My 1 grain Armour over the past four weeks is the first hormones I have taken - never taken synthetic. I did my homework over several years and found the right doc and was lucky enough to get put straight on to Armour :)Although my Doc is treating my symptoms, I know he has to "watch his back" because, in the worst case, Docs over here in England have been had up in front of the General Medical Council for prescribing thyroid hormones to patients with "normal" bloods, despite hypo symptoms. Thus, if my T4 goes above the highest "norm" there might be a question of having my Armour withdrawn. I'm afraid I still don't understand the answer to my original question about why taking Armour would not raise my T4 to above the "recommended" level, though - can you explain again? (Blame the brain fog.) As it contains both T4 and T3, in raising T3 won't it also raise T4, especially as T4 is the "storage" hormone?And yes I am also concerned about the T4 suppressing the TSH so much (it's low anyway) that from the bloods it looks like I am "hyper", symptoms or no. Katy

February 5, 2006

Yes... even here in the states docs have to watch their backs....

On to the part that hasn't clicked in your head yet.. and don't feel bad about that a lot of folks take a while to 'get it' I did.....

First we'll talk about a body with a healthy gland....

The thyroid puts out mostly T4 hormone, with small amounts of T3, T2 and T1. Those hormones are released into the blood stream and travel throughout the body.

The T4 is, in simple terms, is stored in the tissues of the body, muscles, organs, all over... just tucked away all over until the body needs it.

The T3 and the other active hormones get used by the body for function, basically like fast food.. no prep needed.

As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making more, to do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in the blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine molecules that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules, T3 has three iodine molecules... and so on.

So the Selenium attaches to the iodine and yanks it off... now that stored T4 has been turned into a T3, ready for the body to use....

Imagine the T4 is the raw food, the selenium is the spice, the energy is the flame... your body had to cook the food to make the T3 it could use.

Now to the body that takes replacement hormone.

Our glands aren't able to make the hormone that we need to live healthy and happy so we take it in a tablet.

The hormone, once in our blood is distributed throughout our bodies... the T4 is stored in the tissues and if you are taking natural, with the active hormones, too... it gets distributed through the body and is used up.... once it's used up our bodies must convert the stored T4.

80% of the T4 that a healthy gland makes is converted into active hormone. In a body that is on replacement hormone, it converts as much as it is able, which isn't enough if there isn't enough T4 available to convert, or if you don't eat regular meals, or don't have enough selenium in your system.

Right now your last labs showed that your Free T4 was mid range but that your Free T3 was low range....

By adding the Armour you are giving your body more T4 and more T3... your question... If the T4 is already mid range won't adding the Armour make it go higher? Yes. But....

As the T4 is higher, the conversion rate goes up a bit..... so more T4 allows more T3 to be made, so the T4 then drops down a bit.

It takes four to six weeks after starting on replacement hormone, or adjusting a dose, for the body to fully adjust to that increase in available hormone and kick up it's conversion from that increase. If it's been four weeks for you... it might be a bit early to test. Your free T4 may show a bit higher, the Free T3 a bit lower, cuz the conversion hasn't fully kicked in... they body hasn't fully adjusted to what is there.

Did that help?

Now.. to confuse you some more..... As the T3 level increases, either from your body's conversion, of from adding T3 that comes in the Armour, your body has more T3 to work with, that it didn't have to make... it's extra, ready to go, no prep needed... That T3 allows the body to kick up some of the functions that it was having trouble with before, from lack of active hormone. It's not uncommon for that added T3 to be just the jump start the body needs to get it's own conversion going better again.

But you still have to help your conversion.. that means proper eating habits, small meals every three hours or so, avoiding eating things that halt conversion (soy and high fructose corn syrup are the two most common) and making sure that you are eating healthy foods and taking proper supplements.

Oh... forgot something....

Free T4 and Free T3, what are they? They are the hormones that are free and unbound in the blood and ready for the body to utilize. It is not the hormone that is available in the tissues, ready to be used. That's part of why testing levels of hormone isn't as accurate as they lead you to believe.

See... If you were to take your beds within a few hours of having your labs done, the lab tests will show high levels of hormone in your blood.... why? Cuz you just took some, it's showing what you just took.

By NOT taking your meds the morning before the blood draw and waiting until after, the labs will be showing what has accumulated in your system from the dose that you've been on for the last month and a half...... You want the labs to show what your body is doing with what you've been taking..... you don't want the labs to show what you took that morning.

So I'll repeat that part...

Do NOT take your Armour the morning before your blood draw... take it AFTER they have drawn the blood/after the visit with the doc. That way you will get the most accurate reading as to what your body is doing. ESPECIALLY with the conversion... the T3 that shows up in the test, that will be the T3 that your body made.. and that's what you need to know.

Okay... now we get to the argument that so many docs have, and the selling point of the makers of the synthetics... if your body makes most of the T3 it uses, why not just take the T4 meds and not mess with the natural?

Simple....

T4 is not the only thing that our glands make and if your body is unable to convert the synthetic it will be hypo. It doesn't matter how much T4 you take, or for how long, if your body is unable to convert enough of it to active hormone you will by hypo, you will be sick, you will get sicker and you will end up as bad as I was, or worse..... But it won't kill you. It will only make you wish you were dead.

Okay... synthetic bashing over.

The chemistry of how this all works is confusing.... and it takes a while to understand it... but it's important that you do, so that you know how it works, what to watch for, how to explain to your doc that you want to get things to be working correctly and have a life again, and not just exist.

All the hypo horror stories that you hear... that's what happens when we don't have enough hormone to function normally... Our bodies will go a long time, on REALLY low levels without actually dying... but the quality of life at that level, well... it doesn't have much of a value.

Getting the levels up, understanding how the hormones work, what you can do to help your body.. all that will allow you to be healthy again, be normal again, feel well again.....

Oh my gosh.... I'm sure in a mood today... I keep going and going and going... like the energizer bunny... shutting up now!! hehehee

Topper ()

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:03:24 -0000 "Katy" writes:

Hi Yes the tests are FreeT4 and FreeT3. And both my Doc and I agree that it's probably a conversion T4-T3 problem.I'm brand new to thyroid meds of any sort. My 1 grain Armour over the past four weeks is the first hormones I have taken - never taken synthetic. I did my homework over several years and found the right doc and was lucky enough to get put straight on to Armour :)Although my Doc is treating my symptoms, I know he has to "watch his back" because, in the worst case, Docs over here in England have been had up in front of the General Medical Council for prescribing thyroid hormones to patients with "normal" bloods, despite hypo symptoms. Thus, if my T4 goes above the highest "norm" there might be a question of having my Armour withdrawn. I'm afraid I still don't understand the answer to my original question about why taking Armour would not raise my T4 to above the "recommended" level, though - can you explain again? (Blame the brain fog.) As it contains both T4 and T3, in raising T3 won't it also raise T4, especially as T4 is the "storage" hormone?And yes I am also concerned about the T4 suppressing the TSH so much (it's low anyway) that from the bloods it looks like I am "hyper", symptoms or no. Katy

February 5, 2006

Wow ! You are fantastic!! SUCH a personal service!

I've read it and understand it (I think) but this is definitely a

keeper so I will read it again to try and get it into my brain. I

know I have a few questions - are you still up for it?!

Post again later ...

Katy

-- In The_Thyroid_Support_Group , topper2@... wrote:

>

> Yes... even here in the states docs have to watch their backs....

>

> On to the part that hasn't clicked in your head yet.. and don't

feel bad

> about that a lot of folks take a while to 'get it' I did.....

>

> First we'll talk about a body with a healthy gland....

> The thyroid puts out mostly T4 hormone, with small amounts of T3,

T2 and

> T1. Those hormones are released into the blood stream and travel

> throughout the body.

> The T4 is, in simple terms, is stored in the tissues of the body,

> muscles, organs, all over... just tucked away all over until the

body

> needs it.

> The T3 and the other active hormones get used by the body for

function,

> basically like fast food.. no prep needed.

>

> As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making

more, to

> do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in

the

> blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine

molecules

> that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules,

T3 has

> three iodine molecules... and so on.

February 5, 2006

Wow ! You are fantastic!! SUCH a personal service!

I've read it and understand it (I think) but this is definitely a

keeper so I will read it again to try and get it into my brain. I

know I have a few questions - are you still up for it?!

Post again later ...

Katy

-- In The_Thyroid_Support_Group , topper2@... wrote:

>

> Yes... even here in the states docs have to watch their backs....

>

> On to the part that hasn't clicked in your head yet.. and don't

feel bad

> about that a lot of folks take a while to 'get it' I did.....

>

> First we'll talk about a body with a healthy gland....

> The thyroid puts out mostly T4 hormone, with small amounts of T3,

T2 and

> T1. Those hormones are released into the blood stream and travel

> throughout the body.

> The T4 is, in simple terms, is stored in the tissues of the body,

> muscles, organs, all over... just tucked away all over until the

body

> needs it.

> The T3 and the other active hormones get used by the body for

function,

> basically like fast food.. no prep needed.

>

> As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making

more, to

> do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in

the

> blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine

molecules

> that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules,

T3 has

> three iodine molecules... and so on.

February 5, 2006

I'm happy that it helped...it's a lot to learn and to absorb, with a brain that wants to just take in easy and has a hole in the bottom of it's basket!! hehehehehe

Questions are always welcome here.... by me... and everyone.. that's how all learn...

Once it sinks in, and starts making sense.. that's when you can get busy fixing stuff. Sad to say not all the docs understand it.. so it's up to us to make sure that nothing gets missed.

*smile*

Topper ()

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:56:00 -0000 "Katy" writes:

Wow ! You are fantastic!! SUCH a personal service! :)I've read it and understand it (I think) but this is definitely a keeper so I will read it again to try and get it into my brain. I know I have a few questions - are you still up for it?!Post again later ...Katy

February 5, 2006

I'm happy that it helped...it's a lot to learn and to absorb, with a brain that wants to just take in easy and has a hole in the bottom of it's basket!! hehehehehe

Questions are always welcome here.... by me... and everyone.. that's how all learn...

Once it sinks in, and starts making sense.. that's when you can get busy fixing stuff. Sad to say not all the docs understand it.. so it's up to us to make sure that nothing gets missed.

*smile*

Topper ()

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:56:00 -0000 "Katy" writes:

Wow ! You are fantastic!! SUCH a personal service! :)I've read it and understand it (I think) but this is definitely a keeper so I will read it again to try and get it into my brain. I know I have a few questions - are you still up for it?!Post again later ...Katy

February 5, 2006

Hi again

OK, I've re-read and reabsorbed the info. Now for more questions!

>> As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making

more, to

> do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in

the

> blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine

molecules

> that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules,

T3 has

> three iodine molecules... and so on.

>

> So the Selenium attaches to the iodine and yanks it off... now that

> stored T4 has been turned into a T3, ready for the body to use....

As I said to Gossimer, my multivit contains 25 mcg selenium and I

eat a very healthy nutritious diet. Is that enough? I tried taking

selenium supplements a few months ago and got dreadful vertigo and

nausea, so I had to give it up.

>

> Right now your last labs showed that your Free T4 was mid range

but that

> your Free T3 was low range....

>

> By adding the Armour you are giving your body more T4 and more

T3... your

> question... If the T4 is already mid range won't adding the Armour

make

> it go higher? Yes. But....

>

> As the T4 is higher, the conversion rate goes up a bit..... so

more T4

> allows more T3 to be made, so the T4 then drops down a bit.

If, as we suspect, my problem is a T4-T3 conversion problem, doesn't

this whole mechanism break down? I don't know (yet!) the reason why

I have the conversion problem - are there any common ones that might

be in my case? - perhaps excluding the selenium because I'm

certainly getting some.

>

> It takes four to six weeks after starting on replacement hormone,

or

> adjusting a dose, for the body to fully adjust to that increase in

> available hormone and kick up it's conversion from that increase.

If it's

> been four weeks for you... it might be a bit early to test. Your

free T4

> may show a bit higher, the Free T3 a bit lower, cuz the conversion

hasn't

> fully kicked in... they body hasn't fully adjusted to what is

there.

>

> Did that help?

Yes - thank you! And this is all assuming that my body can convert

the T4 I am getting. My low normal T3 might be indicating just that

which my thyroid is excreting by itself.

>

> Now.. to confuse you some more..... As the T3 level increases,

either

> from your body's conversion, of from adding T3 that comes in the

Armour,

> your body has more T3 to work with, that it didn't have to make...

it's

> extra, ready to go, no prep needed... That T3 allows the body to

kick up

> some of the functions that it was having trouble with before, from

lack

> of active hormone. It's not uncommon for that added T3 to be just

the

> jump start the body needs to get it's own conversion going better

again.

Ooh whoopee! Wouldn't that be nice?! (and probably too easy!)

>

> But you still have to help your conversion.. that means proper

eating

> habits, small meals every three hours or so, avoiding eating

things that

> halt conversion (soy and high fructose corn syrup are the two most

> common) and making sure that you are eating healthy foods and

taking

> proper supplements.

OK - I already know about the soy and high fructose corn syrup.

I've been a low carber for nearly five years and been reading around

the whole nutrition/thyroid subject for a good two of those, so know

to avoid soy, fluoride, etc.

Although I never eat junk food and rarely processed foods (fresh

natural home prepared mostly) I do find it difficult to eat more

than every 5 hours (7.30 am, 1 pm and 6 pm). I'm not hungry (low

metabolism!) and I am gaining inches rapidly anyway. I will try and

break up my current meals into smaller ones and eat more regularly.

I'm taking some good supplements - Centrum 50 multivit, EPA/DHA

Omega 3s, 3-4 tbs VCO per day and use Celtic Sea Salt in cooking and

at the table for the trace minerals.

>

> See... If you were to take your beds within a few hours of having

your

> labs done,

LOL! " beds " ;-)

>

> Do NOT take your Armour the morning before your blood draw... take

it

> AFTER they have drawn the blood/after the visit with the doc. That

way

> you will get the most accurate reading as to what your body is

doing.

> ESPECIALLY with the conversion... the T3 that shows up in the

test, that

> will be the T3 that your body made.. and that's what you need to

know.

>

Yes, thank you I'd already decided to do this - it's quite logical

really. My test is tomorrow at 2 pm and I took my last supplements

and Armour at about 2 pm this afternoon. I won't take anything else

until after the appointment tomorrow.

> T4 is not the only thing that our glands make and if your body is

unable

> to convert the synthetic it will be hypo. It doesn't matter how

much T4

> you take, or for how long, if your body is unable to convert

enough of it

> to active hormone you will by hypo, you will be sick, you will get

sicker

> and you will end up as bad as I was, or worse..... But it won't

kill you.

> It will only make you wish you were dead.

So in giving me T3, Armour is giving me enough T3 to get better?

What if I really can't convert the T4 in Armour and that just goes

up and up?

Not too many questions I hope! Bedtime here now - and I will check

the messages again in the morning.

Night!

Katy

February 5, 2006

Hi again

OK, I've re-read and reabsorbed the info. Now for more questions!

>> As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making

more, to

> do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in

the

> blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine

molecules

> that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules,

T3 has

> three iodine molecules... and so on.

>

> So the Selenium attaches to the iodine and yanks it off... now that

> stored T4 has been turned into a T3, ready for the body to use....

As I said to Gossimer, my multivit contains 25 mcg selenium and I

eat a very healthy nutritious diet. Is that enough? I tried taking

selenium supplements a few months ago and got dreadful vertigo and

nausea, so I had to give it up.

>

> Right now your last labs showed that your Free T4 was mid range

but that

> your Free T3 was low range....

>

> By adding the Armour you are giving your body more T4 and more

T3... your

> question... If the T4 is already mid range won't adding the Armour

make

> it go higher? Yes. But....

>

> As the T4 is higher, the conversion rate goes up a bit..... so

more T4

> allows more T3 to be made, so the T4 then drops down a bit.

If, as we suspect, my problem is a T4-T3 conversion problem, doesn't

this whole mechanism break down? I don't know (yet!) the reason why

I have the conversion problem - are there any common ones that might

be in my case? - perhaps excluding the selenium because I'm

certainly getting some.

>

> It takes four to six weeks after starting on replacement hormone,

or

> adjusting a dose, for the body to fully adjust to that increase in

> available hormone and kick up it's conversion from that increase.

If it's

> been four weeks for you... it might be a bit early to test. Your

free T4

> may show a bit higher, the Free T3 a bit lower, cuz the conversion

hasn't

> fully kicked in... they body hasn't fully adjusted to what is

there.

>

> Did that help?

Yes - thank you! And this is all assuming that my body can convert

the T4 I am getting. My low normal T3 might be indicating just that

which my thyroid is excreting by itself.

>

> Now.. to confuse you some more..... As the T3 level increases,

either

> from your body's conversion, of from adding T3 that comes in the

Armour,

> your body has more T3 to work with, that it didn't have to make...

it's

> extra, ready to go, no prep needed... That T3 allows the body to

kick up

> some of the functions that it was having trouble with before, from

lack

> of active hormone. It's not uncommon for that added T3 to be just

the

> jump start the body needs to get it's own conversion going better

again.

Ooh whoopee! Wouldn't that be nice?! (and probably too easy!)

>

> But you still have to help your conversion.. that means proper

eating

> habits, small meals every three hours or so, avoiding eating

things that

> halt conversion (soy and high fructose corn syrup are the two most

> common) and making sure that you are eating healthy foods and

taking

> proper supplements.

OK - I already know about the soy and high fructose corn syrup.

I've been a low carber for nearly five years and been reading around

the whole nutrition/thyroid subject for a good two of those, so know

to avoid soy, fluoride, etc.

Although I never eat junk food and rarely processed foods (fresh

natural home prepared mostly) I do find it difficult to eat more

than every 5 hours (7.30 am, 1 pm and 6 pm). I'm not hungry (low

metabolism!) and I am gaining inches rapidly anyway. I will try and

break up my current meals into smaller ones and eat more regularly.

I'm taking some good supplements - Centrum 50 multivit, EPA/DHA

Omega 3s, 3-4 tbs VCO per day and use Celtic Sea Salt in cooking and

at the table for the trace minerals.

>

> See... If you were to take your beds within a few hours of having

your

> labs done,

LOL! " beds " ;-)

>

> Do NOT take your Armour the morning before your blood draw... take

it

> AFTER they have drawn the blood/after the visit with the doc. That

way

> you will get the most accurate reading as to what your body is

doing.

> ESPECIALLY with the conversion... the T3 that shows up in the

test, that

> will be the T3 that your body made.. and that's what you need to

know.

>

Yes, thank you I'd already decided to do this - it's quite logical

really. My test is tomorrow at 2 pm and I took my last supplements

and Armour at about 2 pm this afternoon. I won't take anything else

until after the appointment tomorrow.

> T4 is not the only thing that our glands make and if your body is

unable

> to convert the synthetic it will be hypo. It doesn't matter how

much T4

> you take, or for how long, if your body is unable to convert

enough of it

> to active hormone you will by hypo, you will be sick, you will get

sicker

> and you will end up as bad as I was, or worse..... But it won't

kill you.

> It will only make you wish you were dead.

So in giving me T3, Armour is giving me enough T3 to get better?

What if I really can't convert the T4 in Armour and that just goes

up and up?

Not too many questions I hope! Bedtime here now - and I will check

the messages again in the morning.

Night!

Katy

February 5, 2006

Questions are good.. that's how you learn!

You have 25 mcg of Selenium in your multi.... some folks require quite a bit more... Gossimer said up to 200, I actually take 400 mcg.... I'm a REALLY lousy converter. I only know one other person that gets the same reaction to taking selenium. I don't know why it is, but she ended up stopping taking the extra. One thought is that there is enough in your diet and your body is saying to back off. Selenium is a mineral and if taken in too high an amount for too long (we're talking 600 mcg per day for two weeks or more) the levels build to toxic levels and can, over time, become fatal. So if your body is saying no..... I'd say stick with what you have in your multi.. and your healthy eating.

It's not known, for sure, why some folks aren't good converters. It might be a cellular level thing from being hypo for an extended period, it might be from how the blood sugar levels are... it might even be a cellular resistance thing.

In rare cases there are some folks that do have problems with hormone receptors. Short description... the hormones fit into receptor sites on the cells, imagine a puzzle piece fitting into a puzzle, the shapes of the edges have to fit together, if the shapes don't fit the hormones can't attach.

So, if the hormones are unable to attach easily you can have blood tests that are showing high levels of hormone, cuz there is so much hormone floating around in your blood, unable to attach. That means that you need the higher saturation level in the blood to get the proper level at the receptors to allow conversion. It gets really complicated. My own thyroid problem stems from a genetic defect in my TSH receptors. The TSH released by my pituitary wasn't able to attache to it's receptors at the glandular level to be able to tell my thyroid what to do. With no instruction, my gland decided to go hyper.....

Adding more Armour now, even if it does increase your T4 all the way to the top of it's range, it will not harm you. But getting the T4 level up that high might be what your body needs to get the saturation level it needs to be able to convert sufficient levels of the T3 your body needs to function.

You've just started on Armour, you've not even seen your first labs from what you are taking. The body has to go through adjustment stages as it straightens things out. You may be seeing fluctuations in your levels as your body adjusts. That's normal. That's another reason why monitoring symptoms and relating them to your labs and correlating that with dosage adjustments is so important in getting things on the right track.

Again... it sounds really complicated... and it's probably gonna take some time for it to sink in... but when it finally clicks in your brain, some of us took a while to get it, it starts to make so much sense and becomes easy to understand and keep working through the adjustments.

A body that is REALLY low on thyroid hormone can go in one of two directions. It differs between individuals.

Some bodies will convert like mad, using up the T4 and showing both sets of numbers (Free T4 and Free T3) as low, their bodies are sucking up every bit of hormone that they can get hold of, showing blood levels as low.

Other bodies have a hard time getting things to be working again, they may not be able to store the T4, may not be able to get the conversion to kick in. For some it's cuz their bodies won't accept synthetic hormone.

All you can do right now, is have the labs done, see what the numbers are showing, and then go from there. You've gotten a better understanding of the hormones now, which is storage, which is active, that the active is MOSTLY from what your body makes on it's own... so when you see the labs it will be easier for you to understand what they say. Make sure that you either ask for a copy, or write down the numbers, both your level and the lab's ranges, so that you can show them to us.

On the paper it will look something like this: TSH 1.0 (.3 - 3.0) Get the idea?

For me, the trick to my feeling better is to multi-dose. I dose my thyroid six to seven times a day (I feel best with 7 doses, but the pill size I have now is best split into six does) I assume that it's cuz my body needs a shot of direct T3 from the thyroid every few hours for it to work okay on it's own and produce the rest of what I need. Don't know for sure. All I know is that I still check a every few months to see if I can reduce the number of doses I take a day by taking more at a time.... and I'm still falling asleep at about five hours after a dose.... I need to take them every three to four hours to be up and alert all through the day AND if I dont' take that last dose at bed time, I can't sleep through the night.

It takes some of us a bit of effort, the trial and error, to find out what our bodies need the most help with... but to get the right combination means that it all works again. For me. I have to do the timing stuff for my body and add the extra supplements and eat small meals often... then it all works and I feel good..... And after all the years of waiting for someone to PLEASE put a shotgun to my head... feeling good is... well.... GOOD!

Oh sure... laugh at me for my typo!!! beds, meds... you knew what I meant!!! heheheh

*blush*

It's POSSIBLE that you're body not wanting to eat more often then every five hours could be from low metabolic rate and your tummy not emptying as quickly as 'normal'. That might change as your levels and metabolism come up...

Remind me... what is your diagnosis? Why are you taking hormone?

If your body is still not able to convert enough of the T4 into the T3 that your body needs, you might be one of the few that has to take extra T3... that's available, as a synthetic, the most common name is Cytomel. But first, see about your labs, and most likely have an increase in the dose you are on now, then have labs done again in six weeks to see if your body is doing better.... If the T4 is staying the same and not going up much and your T3 is coming up... that would mean that you're heading in the right direction, that you need to get more T4 into you and let your body just working on getting the conversion up to par again....

It takes years for the body to get messed up and start showing symptoms of low thyroid hormone levels, it can take a while for it to get things working right to.

Just remember, sharing with us what is going on... labs, how you feel, symptoms, reactions... whatever... is a good way to spot what is going on, to be able to understand changes, to be able to deal with those changes and work through it all... Journaling helps with that, too.. so that you can refer back to how you adjusted to your last change/adjustment and be ready for it the next time.....

NEVER be afraid to ask questions... no matter how trivial or silly something seems... it all fits together to form a picture... and if it happens to be a piece that doesn't fit.... at least you know that and needed wonder anymore.

I'll be watching for your post tomorrow after you get back from the doc!

Topper ()

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 23:26:49 -0000 "Katy" writes:

Hi again OK, I've re-read and reabsorbed the info. Now for more questions! >> As the body uses up the active hormones it has to start making more, to> do this it 'converts' the T4 that is stored. By taking energy in the> blood it attaches a selenium molecule onto one of the Iodine molecules> that make up our thyroid hormones. T4 has four iodine molecules, T3 has> three iodine molecules... and so on.> > So the Selenium attaches to the iodine and yanks it off... now that> stored T4 has been turned into a T3, ready for the body to use.... As I said to Gossimer, my multivit contains 25 mcg selenium and I eat a very healthy nutritious diet. Is that enough? I tried taking selenium supplements a few months ago and got dreadful vertigo and nausea, so I had to give it up.> > Right now your last labs showed that your Free T4 was mid range but that> your Free T3 was low range.... > > By adding the Armour you are giving your body more T4 and more T3... your> question... If the T4 is already mid range won't adding the Armour make> it go higher? Yes. But....> > As the T4 is higher, the conversion rate goes up a bit..... so more T4> allows more T3 to be made, so the T4 then drops down a bit.If, as we suspect, my problem is a T4-T3 conversion problem, doesn't this whole mechanism break down? I don't know (yet!) the reason why I have the conversion problem - are there any common ones that might be in my case? - perhaps excluding the selenium because I'm certainly getting some.> > It takes four to six weeks after starting on replacement hormone, or> adjusting a dose, for the body to fully adjust to that increase in> available hormone and kick up it's conversion from that increase. If it's> been four weeks for you... it might be a bit early to test. Your free T4> may show a bit higher, the Free T3 a bit lower, cuz the conversion hasn't> fully kicked in... they body hasn't fully adjusted to what is there.> > Did that help?Yes - thank you! And this is all assuming that my body can convert the T4 I am getting. My low normal T3 might be indicating just that which my thyroid is excreting by itself.> > Now.. to confuse you some more..... As the T3 level increases, either> from your body's conversion, of from adding T3 that comes in the Armour,> your body has more T3 to work with, that it didn't have to make... it's> extra, ready to go, no prep needed... That T3 allows the body to kick up> some of the functions that it was having trouble with before, from lack> of active hormone. It's not uncommon for that added T3 to be just the> jump start the body needs to get it's own conversion going better again.Ooh whoopee! Wouldn't that be nice?! (and probably too easy!)> > But you still have to help your conversion.. that means proper eating> habits, small meals every three hours or so, avoiding eating things that> halt conversion (soy and high fructose corn syrup are the two most> common) and making sure that you are eating healthy foods and taking> proper supplements.OK - I already know about the soy and high fructose corn syrup. I've been a low carber for nearly five years and been reading around the whole nutrition/thyroid subject for a good two of those, so know to avoid soy, fluoride, etc.Although I never eat junk food and rarely processed foods (fresh natural home prepared mostly) I do find it difficult to eat more than every 5 hours (7.30 am, 1 pm and 6 pm). I'm not hungry (low metabolism!) and I am gaining inches rapidly anyway. I will try and break up my current meals into smaller ones and eat more regularly.I'm taking some good supplements - Centrum 50 multivit, EPA/DHA Omega 3s, 3-4 tbs VCO per day and use Celtic Sea Salt in cooking and at the table for the trace minerals.> > See... If you were to take your beds within a few hours of having your> labs done,LOL! "beds" ;-)> > Do NOT take your Armour the morning before your blood draw... take it> AFTER they have drawn the blood/after the visit with the doc. That way> you will get the most accurate reading as to what your body is doing.> ESPECIALLY with the conversion... the T3 that shows up in the test, that> will be the T3 that your body made.. and that's what you need to know.> Yes, thank you I'd already decided to do this - it's quite logical really. My test is tomorrow at 2 pm and I took my last supplements and Armour at about 2 pm this afternoon. I won't take anything else until after the appointment tomorrow.> T4 is not the only thing that our glands make and if your body is unable> to convert the synthetic it will be hypo. It doesn't matter how much T4> you take, or for how long, if your body is unable to convert enough of it> to active hormone you will by hypo, you will be sick, you will get sicker> and you will end up as bad as I was, or worse..... But it won't kill you.> It will only make you wish you were dead.So in giving me T3, Armour is giving me enough T3 to get better? What if I really can't convert the T4 in Armour and that just goes up and up?Not too many questions I hope! Bedtime here now - and I will check the messages again in the morning.Night! :)Katy

February 5, 2006