Re: Newbie : question

[Guest guest]

Hi Chrissie - glad to see that you joined us here. You will find much excellent advice with this wonderful group of people.

For the antibodies test I specified: Anti-thyroglobulin and Anti-Micosomal T.P.O. Antibody. My first doctor only ordered the second test when I asked for the antibodies tests, so I was VERY specific with the second doctor. For me these have tested negative and my issue is iodine deficiency.

I have just been prescribed 1/2 grain of Armour to start with. My new doctor wrote the RX for 100 1 grain tablets so that there is room to adjust according to my needs as we go. The Armour is very inexpensive as I paid about $16 for 100 tablets at Fry's Grocery (pharmacy). The Armour is in tablet form (they don't call it sublingual), but I know that I will be taking my dose as a sublingual since Topper does hers that way and it will eliminate the timing issues with our other supplements.

My new doctor told me that as a post-menopausal woman I need to keep my ferritin level around 40-60, definitely under 100. This is because of the oxidation factor and heart disease. I am currently at 67 so pretty much where she wants me. I am taking Vitalady's Tender Iron (iron carbonyl).

Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

slkscb@... ~ Open RNY 12/8/03, 150 cm, Barix Clinics, 303/290 day of surgery/195 current/ goal is to be HEALTHY. Emergency appendectomy 11/1/04, Gallbladder 1/12/05. "Know your labs and track your trends."

Check out my gastric bypass journal at www.acdlady.com/WLS_1 for many educational links. My OH profile is at http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=M1062876220 I am not affiliated with the medical profession except as a proactive WLS post-op. "Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s." – Wilder

-- Re: Newbie : question

Thanks.

Do I just ask for "antibodies tests" or do they have a particular name? what kind of antibodies?

I think the doc will do whatever I ask for. That's why I want to know what I "should" ask for.

So far....I think I should be asking for....Free T3 (now)

Armour Thyroid (sublingual) perscription

Free T3 and Free T4 perscrip for 6 weeks

Antibodies testing????

Right, so far????

Chrissie

Re: Newbie : question

Hi Chrissie,

The labs that were taken... some of them are obsolete....

What I see is a TSH that is slightly over the current range, which is .3 to 3.0. A TSH over 2.0 is cause for further testing to determine what the problem is.

They did Total T4.... that is at the low end of it's range, that doesn't look promising.

T3 uptake is obsolete.

Free T4 is slightly above the bottom of it's range.. but too low....

They didn't check Free T3, to see how your active thyroid hormone level is... judging by the high TSH and the low Total T4 and Free T4 I'd venture to say that the Free T3 is also low.

So, to me, these labs are showing that you probably aren't feeling too hot.

Did they happen to run antibody tests to see if there was anything going on there?

I'll bet he doesn't want to do a thing with these numbers... if he's a TSH doc or thinks that numbers 'in normal range' mean that you're just fine.... he's gonna let you get sicker.

One thing that I'd say is that with the T4s both so low and still feeling so bad... I'd want to try to get the Free T4 up with a small dose of replacement hormone and then come back in six weeks to have the Free T4 and Free T3 checked to see how my body is responding and if conversion is good and see if my symptoms improve.

With both your ferritin and iron low, that makes your body less able to properly utilize the hormone that is in your body....

Since you've had gastric bypass... I'd suggest going with natural thyroid, like Armour. That will allow you to dose your thyroid sublingually. Taking a synthetic T4 medication, like Synthroid.. then you have to try to time your dose around meals, since it has to be taken on an empty stomach, that means four hours after a meal and one hour before, that's harder to do with having to do the small meals throughout the day that your modified digestive system requires, and then the problems with getting dosages to be consistent with the absorption challenges that you face.

At least that's what I'm thinking right now...

Topper ()

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 16:22:27 -0500 "shihtzumom" writes:

Hi. I'm new here. I have read in the past that thyroid labs can be normal when there is still a problem.Anyway, for those who understand thyroid labs....My latest labs...TSH......3.163 (0.350-5.500) NormalThyroxine (T4) ...4.7 (4.5-12.0) Very low normal on this one.T3 Uptake....33% (24-39) NormalFree Thyroxine Index...1.6 (1.2-4.9) Very low normalSo, if the T3s are fine, but the T4s are very low normal, and I do have the symptoms of low thyroid......how should I explain this to the doctor so I get put on something for low thyroid? And what...Synthroid or something natural like Armour thyroid, or something else (and which one would be best). My doc usually listens to what I have researched and goes with what I tell him. I have an appointment next week. I was on Synthroid when I about 30 years ago. Supposedly my thyroid was low then, but in subsequent years with subsequent doctors, I have been told my thyroid labs were fine, so no Synthroid for many many years. My mother did have thyroid problems, as did my sister in the past. My mother was hypothyroid, on Synthroid up until her death. My sister was hyperthyroid and had the radioactive treatments, then nothing else since. That was many many years ago also.My symptoms...fatigue, loss of energy weight gain, difficulty losing weight depressionjoint pain (could just be arthritis)itching (arms mainly, but whole body itches too. Arms itch at times that wake me up and I want to itch them to the bone. Sometimes I have to put ice on them so I don't dig them raw, especially at night.)irregular periods, PMS symptoms (could be perimenopause though)difficulty tolerating cold and lower body temperature sleeping more than average memory loss, fuzzy thinking, By the way, my other labs were actually very good, better than previous ones.My Ferritin and iron have gone up (were low normal before). Only other things "off" were Neutrophils 79 (40-74)Lymphs 13 (14-46)Glucose 100 (65-99) No big dealCreatinine 0.6 (0.5-1.5) low normalA/G ratio 1.2 (1.1-2.5) Albumin 4.0 (3.5-5.5)Normal Globulin 3.3 (1.5-4.5) NormalHomocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2) High normalFerritin 27 (10-291) low normalIron 52 (35-155) low normal TIBC 314 (250-450) normal UIBC 262 (150-375) normal Iron Sat 17% (15-55) low normal

Had loads of other labs done too, 17 vials in all. I get these every 6 months to a year because of malabsorption issues post gastric bypass.

Posted the rest( in addition to the thyroid results) in case there is some connection which I can't see. My question is really about the thyroid, and how to approach the doctor about it, since it actually "is" in normal range, though may still be a problem.Any help will be appreciated.

Chrissie

[Guest guest]

I found this on the explination of DHEA

http://home.caregroup.org/clinical/altmed/interactions/Nutrients/DHEA.htm

here is another explination

http://www.researchd.com/rdikits/re52181.htm

study done on DHEA & CFS relation

J Affect Disord 1999 Jul;54(1-2):129-37

Differences in adrenal steroid profile in chronic fatigue syndrome, in depression and in health.

LV, Salahuddin F, Cooney J, Svec F, Dinan TG. Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Medical School, Dublin, Ireland.

BACKGROUND: Hyperactivity and hypoactivity of the HPA have been forwarded as of pathophysiological relevance in major depressive disorder and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), respectively. METHODS: This study examines cortisol levels in the two disorders, and also assesses levels of the adrenal androgens, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulphate derivative (DHEA-S), and 17-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone; 15 subjects with CFS diagnosed according to CDC criteria, 15 subjects with DSM III-R major depression and 11 healthy subjects were compared. RESULTS: DHEA and DHEA-S levels were significantly lower in the CFS compared to the healthy group; DHEA-S levels, but not DHEA, were lower in the depressives; cortisol and 17-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone did not differ between the three groups. CONCLUSIONS: A potential role for DHEA, both therapeutically and as a diagnostic tool, in CFS, is suggested.

PMID: 10403156 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

that link is here

http://www.salivatest.com/store/bhrt_dhea.html

hope this helps.

andrea

Newbie : question

Hi. I'm new here. I have read in the past that thyroid labs can be normal when there is still a problem.Anyway, for those who understand thyroid labs....My latest labs...TSH......3.163 (0.350-5.500) NormalThyroxine (T4) ...4.7 (4.5-12.0) Very low normal on this one.T3 Uptake....33% (24-39) NormalFree Thyroxine Index...1.6 (1.2-4.9) Very low normalSo, if the T3s are fine, but the T4s are very low normal, and I do have the symptoms of low thyroid......how should I explain this to the doctor so I get put on something for low thyroid? And what...Synthroid or something natural like Armour thyroid, or something else (and which one would be best). My doc usually listens to what I have researched and goes with what I tell him. I have an appointment next week. I was on Synthroid when I about 30 years ago. Supposedly my thyroid was low then, but in subsequent years with subsequent doctors, I have been told my thyroid labs were fine, so no Synthroid for many many years. My mother did have thyroid problems, as did my sister in the past. My mother was hypothyroid, on Synthroid up until her death. My sister was hyperthyroid and had the radioactive treatments, then nothing else since. That was many many years ago also.My symptoms...fatigue, loss of energy weight gain, difficulty losing weight depressionjoint pain (could just be arthritis)itching (arms mainly, but whole body itches too. Arms itch at times that wake me up and I want to itch them to the bone. Sometimes I have to put ice on them so I don't dig them raw, especially at night.)irregular periods, PMS symptoms (could be perimenopause though)difficulty tolerating cold and lower body temperature sleeping more than average memory loss, fuzzy thinking, By the way, my other labs were actually very good, better than previous ones.My Ferritin and iron have gone up (were low normal before). Only other things "off" were Neutrophils 79 (40-74)Lymphs 13 (14-46)Glucose 100 (65-99) No big dealCreatinine 0.6 (0.5-1.5) low normalA/G ratio 1.2 (1.1-2.5) Albumin 4.0 (3.5-5.5)Normal Globulin 3.3 (1.5-4.5) NormalHomocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2) High normalFerritin 27 (10-291) low normalIron 52 (35-155) low normal TIBC 314 (250-450) normal UIBC 262 (150-375) normal Iron Sat 17% (15-55) low normal

Had loads of other labs done too, 17 vials in all. I get these every 6 months to a year because of malabsorption issues post gastric bypass.

Posted the rest( in addition to the thyroid results) in case there is some connection which I can't see. My question is really about the thyroid, and how to approach the doctor about it, since it actually "is" in normal range, though may still be a problem.Any help will be appreciated.

Chrissie

[Guest guest]

I found this on the explination of DHEA

http://home.caregroup.org/clinical/altmed/interactions/Nutrients/DHEA.htm

here is another explination

http://www.researchd.com/rdikits/re52181.htm

study done on DHEA & CFS relation

J Affect Disord 1999 Jul;54(1-2):129-37

Differences in adrenal steroid profile in chronic fatigue syndrome, in depression and in health.

LV, Salahuddin F, Cooney J, Svec F, Dinan TG. Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Medical School, Dublin, Ireland.

BACKGROUND: Hyperactivity and hypoactivity of the HPA have been forwarded as of pathophysiological relevance in major depressive disorder and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), respectively. METHODS: This study examines cortisol levels in the two disorders, and also assesses levels of the adrenal androgens, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulphate derivative (DHEA-S), and 17-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone; 15 subjects with CFS diagnosed according to CDC criteria, 15 subjects with DSM III-R major depression and 11 healthy subjects were compared. RESULTS: DHEA and DHEA-S levels were significantly lower in the CFS compared to the healthy group; DHEA-S levels, but not DHEA, were lower in the depressives; cortisol and 17-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone did not differ between the three groups. CONCLUSIONS: A potential role for DHEA, both therapeutically and as a diagnostic tool, in CFS, is suggested.

PMID: 10403156 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

that link is here

http://www.salivatest.com/store/bhrt_dhea.html

hope this helps.

andrea

Newbie : question

Hi. I'm new here. I have read in the past that thyroid labs can be normal when there is still a problem.Anyway, for those who understand thyroid labs....My latest labs...TSH......3.163 (0.350-5.500) NormalThyroxine (T4) ...4.7 (4.5-12.0) Very low normal on this one.T3 Uptake....33% (24-39) NormalFree Thyroxine Index...1.6 (1.2-4.9) Very low normalSo, if the T3s are fine, but the T4s are very low normal, and I do have the symptoms of low thyroid......how should I explain this to the doctor so I get put on something for low thyroid? And what...Synthroid or something natural like Armour thyroid, or something else (and which one would be best). My doc usually listens to what I have researched and goes with what I tell him. I have an appointment next week. I was on Synthroid when I about 30 years ago. Supposedly my thyroid was low then, but in subsequent years with subsequent doctors, I have been told my thyroid labs were fine, so no Synthroid for many many years. My mother did have thyroid problems, as did my sister in the past. My mother was hypothyroid, on Synthroid up until her death. My sister was hyperthyroid and had the radioactive treatments, then nothing else since. That was many many years ago also.My symptoms...fatigue, loss of energy weight gain, difficulty losing weight depressionjoint pain (could just be arthritis)itching (arms mainly, but whole body itches too. Arms itch at times that wake me up and I want to itch them to the bone. Sometimes I have to put ice on them so I don't dig them raw, especially at night.)irregular periods, PMS symptoms (could be perimenopause though)difficulty tolerating cold and lower body temperature sleeping more than average memory loss, fuzzy thinking, By the way, my other labs were actually very good, better than previous ones.My Ferritin and iron have gone up (were low normal before). Only other things "off" were Neutrophils 79 (40-74)Lymphs 13 (14-46)Glucose 100 (65-99) No big dealCreatinine 0.6 (0.5-1.5) low normalA/G ratio 1.2 (1.1-2.5) Albumin 4.0 (3.5-5.5)Normal Globulin 3.3 (1.5-4.5) NormalHomocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2) High normalFerritin 27 (10-291) low normalIron 52 (35-155) low normal TIBC 314 (250-450) normal UIBC 262 (150-375) normal Iron Sat 17% (15-55) low normal

Had loads of other labs done too, 17 vials in all. I get these every 6 months to a year because of malabsorption issues post gastric bypass.

Posted the rest( in addition to the thyroid results) in case there is some connection which I can't see. My question is really about the thyroid, and how to approach the doctor about it, since it actually "is" in normal range, though may still be a problem.Any help will be appreciated.

Chrissie

[Guest guest]

I found this on the explination of DHEA

http://home.caregroup.org/clinical/altmed/interactions/Nutrients/DHEA.htm

here is another explination

http://www.researchd.com/rdikits/re52181.htm

study done on DHEA & CFS relation

J Affect Disord 1999 Jul;54(1-2):129-37

Differences in adrenal steroid profile in chronic fatigue syndrome, in depression and in health.

LV, Salahuddin F, Cooney J, Svec F, Dinan TG. Department of Psychiatry, Trinity College Medical School, Dublin, Ireland.

BACKGROUND: Hyperactivity and hypoactivity of the HPA have been forwarded as of pathophysiological relevance in major depressive disorder and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), respectively. METHODS: This study examines cortisol levels in the two disorders, and also assesses levels of the adrenal androgens, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulphate derivative (DHEA-S), and 17-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone; 15 subjects with CFS diagnosed according to CDC criteria, 15 subjects with DSM III-R major depression and 11 healthy subjects were compared. RESULTS: DHEA and DHEA-S levels were significantly lower in the CFS compared to the healthy group; DHEA-S levels, but not DHEA, were lower in the depressives; cortisol and 17-alpha-hydroxyprogesterone did not differ between the three groups. CONCLUSIONS: A potential role for DHEA, both therapeutically and as a diagnostic tool, in CFS, is suggested.

PMID: 10403156 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

that link is here

http://www.salivatest.com/store/bhrt_dhea.html

hope this helps.

andrea

Newbie : question

Hi. I'm new here. I have read in the past that thyroid labs can be normal when there is still a problem.Anyway, for those who understand thyroid labs....My latest labs...TSH......3.163 (0.350-5.500) NormalThyroxine (T4) ...4.7 (4.5-12.0) Very low normal on this one.T3 Uptake....33% (24-39) NormalFree Thyroxine Index...1.6 (1.2-4.9) Very low normalSo, if the T3s are fine, but the T4s are very low normal, and I do have the symptoms of low thyroid......how should I explain this to the doctor so I get put on something for low thyroid? And what...Synthroid or something natural like Armour thyroid, or something else (and which one would be best). My doc usually listens to what I have researched and goes with what I tell him. I have an appointment next week. I was on Synthroid when I about 30 years ago. Supposedly my thyroid was low then, but in subsequent years with subsequent doctors, I have been told my thyroid labs were fine, so no Synthroid for many many years. My mother did have thyroid problems, as did my sister in the past. My mother was hypothyroid, on Synthroid up until her death. My sister was hyperthyroid and had the radioactive treatments, then nothing else since. That was many many years ago also.My symptoms...fatigue, loss of energy weight gain, difficulty losing weight depressionjoint pain (could just be arthritis)itching (arms mainly, but whole body itches too. Arms itch at times that wake me up and I want to itch them to the bone. Sometimes I have to put ice on them so I don't dig them raw, especially at night.)irregular periods, PMS symptoms (could be perimenopause though)difficulty tolerating cold and lower body temperature sleeping more than average memory loss, fuzzy thinking, By the way, my other labs were actually very good, better than previous ones.My Ferritin and iron have gone up (were low normal before). Only other things "off" were Neutrophils 79 (40-74)Lymphs 13 (14-46)Glucose 100 (65-99) No big dealCreatinine 0.6 (0.5-1.5) low normalA/G ratio 1.2 (1.1-2.5) Albumin 4.0 (3.5-5.5)Normal Globulin 3.3 (1.5-4.5) NormalHomocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2) High normalFerritin 27 (10-291) low normalIron 52 (35-155) low normal TIBC 314 (250-450) normal UIBC 262 (150-375) normal Iron Sat 17% (15-55) low normal

Had loads of other labs done too, 17 vials in all. I get these every 6 months to a year because of malabsorption issues post gastric bypass.

Posted the rest( in addition to the thyroid results) in case there is some connection which I can't see. My question is really about the thyroid, and how to approach the doctor about it, since it actually "is" in normal range, though may still be a problem.Any help will be appreciated.

Chrissie

[Guest guest]

My labs were taken at 9:05 am. I am on Chromagen Forte(prescrip iron-ferrous fumerate +) 3 per day. That was another lab result that "I" had to tell the doc about and tell him I wanted to be put on prescrip iron. Since my levels were low, but not out the bottom of the chart, he just overlooked them until I pushed him, just like I am going to have to do on the thyroid tests. That's why I have to go armed and ready. He won't argue though. At least he usually doesn't. He just does what I ask him. He trusts that I know more about post op gastric bypass patients and malabsorption issues than he does.

B12 was 861 (211-911)

MMA 195 (73-376)

Homocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2)

Now, I just heard, on another board, that B12 can STILL be low, even if in "normal" range, if MMA or homocysteine are high. So, I will be upping the B12 injections also.

As for the screen name, we used to breed and raise shihtzus, thus shihtzumom. Now we just have 2 females left, as pets, or princesses actually.

Chrissie

Re: Newbie : question

Your ferritin and iron is real low too.... it's common with hypos to have trouble with that... as well as B-12.

What time of day was the blood drawn? I'm wondering about the time of day for the cortisol... it makes a difference - what level at what time of day..

Your screen name.... are you a shihtzu lover?

Topper ()

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:07:36 -0500 "shihtzumom" writes:

Actually, that was very clear. I got it.

And my ferritin was just done. it was 27 (10-291)

My serum iron was 52 (35-155)

TIBC 314 (250-450)

UIBC 262 (150-375)

Iron Saturation 17 (15-55)

The other test I heard mentioned was Cortisol. Mine was 7.1 (3.1-22.4) So that one looks good, at least.

I get lots of tests because of the gastric bypass. I had 17 vials taken this last time. Everything else I had done was really good, except for high Neutrophils 79 (40-74), and low Lymphs 13 (14-46).

[Guest guest]

My labs were taken at 9:05 am. I am on Chromagen Forte(prescrip iron-ferrous fumerate +) 3 per day. That was another lab result that "I" had to tell the doc about and tell him I wanted to be put on prescrip iron. Since my levels were low, but not out the bottom of the chart, he just overlooked them until I pushed him, just like I am going to have to do on the thyroid tests. That's why I have to go armed and ready. He won't argue though. At least he usually doesn't. He just does what I ask him. He trusts that I know more about post op gastric bypass patients and malabsorption issues than he does.

B12 was 861 (211-911)

MMA 195 (73-376)

Homocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2)

Now, I just heard, on another board, that B12 can STILL be low, even if in "normal" range, if MMA or homocysteine are high. So, I will be upping the B12 injections also.

As for the screen name, we used to breed and raise shihtzus, thus shihtzumom. Now we just have 2 females left, as pets, or princesses actually.

Chrissie

Re: Newbie : question

Your ferritin and iron is real low too.... it's common with hypos to have trouble with that... as well as B-12.

What time of day was the blood drawn? I'm wondering about the time of day for the cortisol... it makes a difference - what level at what time of day..

Your screen name.... are you a shihtzu lover?

Topper ()

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:07:36 -0500 "shihtzumom" writes:

Actually, that was very clear. I got it.

And my ferritin was just done. it was 27 (10-291)

My serum iron was 52 (35-155)

TIBC 314 (250-450)

UIBC 262 (150-375)

Iron Saturation 17 (15-55)

The other test I heard mentioned was Cortisol. Mine was 7.1 (3.1-22.4) So that one looks good, at least.

I get lots of tests because of the gastric bypass. I had 17 vials taken this last time. Everything else I had done was really good, except for high Neutrophils 79 (40-74), and low Lymphs 13 (14-46).

[Guest guest]

My labs were taken at 9:05 am. I am on Chromagen Forte(prescrip iron-ferrous fumerate +) 3 per day. That was another lab result that "I" had to tell the doc about and tell him I wanted to be put on prescrip iron. Since my levels were low, but not out the bottom of the chart, he just overlooked them until I pushed him, just like I am going to have to do on the thyroid tests. That's why I have to go armed and ready. He won't argue though. At least he usually doesn't. He just does what I ask him. He trusts that I know more about post op gastric bypass patients and malabsorption issues than he does.

B12 was 861 (211-911)

MMA 195 (73-376)

Homocysteine 9.9 (3.3-10.2)

Now, I just heard, on another board, that B12 can STILL be low, even if in "normal" range, if MMA or homocysteine are high. So, I will be upping the B12 injections also.

As for the screen name, we used to breed and raise shihtzus, thus shihtzumom. Now we just have 2 females left, as pets, or princesses actually.

Chrissie

Re: Newbie : question

Your ferritin and iron is real low too.... it's common with hypos to have trouble with that... as well as B-12.

What time of day was the blood drawn? I'm wondering about the time of day for the cortisol... it makes a difference - what level at what time of day..

Your screen name.... are you a shihtzu lover?

Topper ()

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:07:36 -0500 "shihtzumom" writes:

Actually, that was very clear. I got it.

And my ferritin was just done. it was 27 (10-291)

My serum iron was 52 (35-155)

TIBC 314 (250-450)

UIBC 262 (150-375)

Iron Saturation 17 (15-55)

The other test I heard mentioned was Cortisol. Mine was 7.1 (3.1-22.4) So that one looks good, at least.

I get lots of tests because of the gastric bypass. I had 17 vials taken this last time. Everything else I had done was really good, except for high Neutrophils 79 (40-74), and low Lymphs 13 (14-46).