Re: Prisoner Rights and EMS... Advice needed

[Guest guest]

From what perspective are you asking? There are too many wild cards in your

questions. Can you simplify or clarify?

Tater

txbasic wrote:

Hello-

Has anyone here ever heard of a policy in which the EMS service,

which responds to a jail or prison, is told that they " don't

transport prisoners unless its a life-threatening situation. We

don't even offer them transport. " As far as I know if someone is in

custody - The arresting officer or the officer in charge of

the " prisoner " or " detainee " more or less gives the say so if they

are transported, and in the event they aren't, the officer signs the

refusal in place of the pt's...? As far as not even offering someone

transport (prisoner or not) I would say that opens you and your

service up for all kinds of legal issues, not to mention the ethical

issues in denying someone medical treatment, when that pt thinks

they need it. I understand that prisoners often try different

tactics to avoid being behind bars or being detained, however, I

don't belive that is in the best intrest of the pt' or EMS to make

that decision. If I could refuse pt's transport on the grounds

that " it's not life threatening or they don't need it " I would have

one heck of an easy day at work. But for someone to tell me, that I

am not supposed to even offer a " prisoner " transport, and that

policy doesn't allow it, well just sounds rediculous. If anyone here

knows of laws regarding prisoner rights regarding medical

treatment/transport/ and EMS please reply either on here or at

txbasic@... In addition to that, does anyone know if medical

direction or agency policy has the right to do that? And last but

not least... I would like some law enforcement insight regarding

this.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Sorry-....

1. Can an EMS agency or medical director make a policy, which doesn't allow

the transport of prisoners or persons in custody of law enforcement?

2. What rights does a prisoner or " detainee " have when it comes to medical

treatment?

3. What about " un-official " policies regrading prisoner transports? (i.e. " We

only see the prisoners becasue the police want to cover their own butts, we're

not there to take them (prisoners) to the hospital, they don't have that

right. " )

If anyone else has any more questions please reply.

- Txbasic

" E. Tate " wrote:

From what perspective are you asking? There are too many wild cards in your

questions. Can you simplify or clarify?

Tater

txbasic wrote:

Hello-

Has anyone here ever heard of a policy in which the EMS service,

which responds to a jail or prison, is told that they " don't

transport prisoners unless its a life-threatening situation. We

don't even offer them transport. " As far as I know if someone is in

custody - The arresting officer or the officer in charge of

the " prisoner " or " detainee " more or less gives the say so if they

are transported, and in the event they aren't, the officer signs the

refusal in place of the pt's...? As far as not even offering someone

transport (prisoner or not) I would say that opens you and your

service up for all kinds of legal issues, not to mention the ethical

issues in denying someone medical treatment, when that pt thinks

they need it. I understand that prisoners often try different

tactics to avoid being behind bars or being detained, however, I

don't belive that is in the best intrest of the pt' or EMS to make

that decision. If I could refuse pt's transport on the grounds

that " it's not life threatening or they don't need it " I would have

one heck of an easy day at work. But for someone to tell me, that I

am not supposed to even offer a " prisoner " transport, and that

policy doesn't allow it, well just sounds rediculous. If anyone here

knows of laws regarding prisoner rights regarding medical

treatment/transport/ and EMS please reply either on here or at

txbasic@... In addition to that, does anyone know if medical

direction or agency policy has the right to do that? And last but

not least... I would like some law enforcement insight regarding

this.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles of this list.

My response will deal more with thoose that are actually in Jail as opposed to

those that are on the side of the highway or just detained.

I have worked both in a County Jail and within the Texas Department of

Criminal Justice, so I thought I would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

Prisoners from a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you and I. They

don’t (generally) have to pay insurance premiums, co-pays, and other bills

associated with their medical care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

their treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s appointment sometime too.

In your question you mentioned Jails and Prison. Keep in mind that these are

2 completely separate sets of institutions and each plays by different sets of

rules. County Jails house inmates and prisoners that are either awaiting trial,

have been sentenced to 1 year or less of confinement (any misdemeanor

conviction), or are awaiting transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and sentenced to 180 Days - 2 Years of

confinement (State Jail Felonies). Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are

sentenced to a term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd Degree & Capital

Felonies). Generally, State Jails and Prisons will have on-site medical care.

Only larger County Jails will have on-site medical facilities.

The Texas Commission on Jail Standards implements and enforces the rules

associated with County Jails and provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS

is covered in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In Part 9, Chapter

273, the rules concerning Inmate Healthcare is covered. Each institution is

required to have a written Health Services Plan and the plan must address a list

of topics.

Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is ultimately responsible for each

and every inmate’s health and safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

the citizens of his county and the State of Texas. You will not usually deal

with the Sheriff himself in a jail, but will deal with a jail supervisor. That

officer has delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the confinement and

potential transport of anyone that is incarcerated. You can not force them to

transport an inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport for anyone that is

housed in that facility. By you showing up, you have offered a transport, it is

their decision as to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to be

transported unless it is determined to be a life-threatening or potentially

life-threatening situation

Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit of transferring any inmate

outside of the jail. Anytime an inmate exits the confinement of the jail there

is a security risk. This risk must be determined based on each inmate’s charges

or conviction and history and escape potential and weighed against the potential

outcome of their medical condition. This transport / no transport decision was

mine when I worked at both the County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you

would not have been called unless I had decided to call you, and knew there was

an imminent transport situation. On a couple of occasions I did have ambulances

called and cancelled them, or refused transport, because of a change in the

condition of the inmate.

Inmates and Prisoners are always looking for a way out. Even if not to

escape, just to get a trip to the “free world” for a short bit of time. This is

akin to a 1 week vacation for you or me to an exotic locale. As a medical

professional your primary concern is that of your safety. Remember that from

EMT school! Your secondary concern is the safety of your partner. Your final

concern is that of the well-being of the inmate. The safety concerns of the

jail staff are 1) the citizens, 2) you and your partner, 3) their staff, 4) the

inmate. I am not saying that we should not be concerned with the health and

well-being of the inmate, but the safety risks must also be assessed also.

If you are called to a jail, always, always, always put #1 first. Not all

jailers and correctional officers are created equally. Trust no one. Assess

your patient (if it is safe), if it is not safe, have the staff make it safe.

Never ask what the inmate is being held for. You should always assume they are

the worst of the worst and protect yourself accordingly.

Know the capabilities of the facility. Is it 5 AM Monday morning and an

inmate has a simple laceration that needs sutures, and the staff doctor will be

there at 6 AM? Is this something that can wait for a short period of time or is

it a truly life or limb threatening emergency? Is this something that the

Hospital ER staff will tend to right now, or will this inmate sit in observation

room for hours on end before tended to? Again, know the capabilities of the

facility. I suggest you call the jail and ask to speak with the officer in

charge (usually a Sergeant or Lieutenant) on a weekday. Ask them if you can

come by and take a tour and ask questions about their capabilities. Ask them if

they have on-site medical care. If so, visit with them and assess their

capabilities and short-falls, create a rapport with them.

Remember, you can always call Medical Control and discuss the situation with

them. The jail will usually allow you to make the call from a land line phone.

Have Medical Control talk directly to the jail officer after you have informed

them of the situation. NEVER have a discussion in front of any inmate,

especially the one being treated. Always be diplomatic, you do not want to get

on bad terms with the jail, you may have to respond there again, and want to

have a positive relationship with them. You CAN NOT transport if they do not

allow you to, and should document accordingly (after you leave the jail). Get

the refusal signed and document, document, document!!!!! When documenting, do

not use the word patient. Inmates LOVE to sue, and the word inmate, offender,

or prisoner makes a statement to a jury if necessary (been there, done that MANY

times).

E. Tate, LP

EMT Basic wrote:

Sorry-....

1. Can an EMS agency or medical director make a policy, which doesn't allow

the transport of prisoners or persons in custody of law enforcement?

2. What rights does a prisoner or " detainee " have when it comes to medical

treatment?

3. What about " un-official " policies regrading prisoner transports? (i.e. " We

only see the prisoners becasue the police want to cover their own butts, we're

not there to take them (prisoners) to the hospital, they don't have that

right. " )

If anyone else has any more questions please reply.

- Txbasic

" E. Tate " wrote:

From what perspective are you asking? There are too many wild cards in your

questions. Can you simplify or clarify?

Tater

txbasic wrote:

Hello-

Has anyone here ever heard of a policy in which the EMS service,

which responds to a jail or prison, is told that they " don't

transport prisoners unless its a life-threatening situation. We

don't even offer them transport. " As far as I know if someone is in

custody - The arresting officer or the officer in charge of

the " prisoner " or " detainee " more or less gives the say so if they

are transported, and in the event they aren't, the officer signs the

refusal in place of the pt's...? As far as not even offering someone

transport (prisoner or not) I would say that opens you and your

service up for all kinds of legal issues, not to mention the ethical

issues in denying someone medical treatment, when that pt thinks

they need it. I understand that prisoners often try different

tactics to avoid being behind bars or being detained, however, I

don't belive that is in the best intrest of the pt' or EMS to make

that decision. If I could refuse pt's transport on the grounds

that " it's not life threatening or they don't need it " I would have

one heck of an easy day at work. But for someone to tell me, that I

am not supposed to even offer a " prisoner " transport, and that

policy doesn't allow it, well just sounds rediculous. If anyone here

knows of laws regarding prisoner rights regarding medical

treatment/transport/ and EMS please reply either on here or at

txbasic@... In addition to that, does anyone know if medical

direction or agency policy has the right to do that? And last but

not least... I would like some law enforcement insight regarding

this.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Very well put , To add to this I worked for awhile in

our County Parks Dept.

and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work outside

inmate work crews.

Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical condition

occur we did an initial

assessment and then were required to contact the Jail

Captain or Supervisor

and advise them of the situation and the decision for the

inmate to be seen by

Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was entirely up

to them. Usually an armed

LE officer would meet us if they went to an outside

medical facility. Hope this helps

as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

" E. Tate " wrote:

> I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles of this

>list.

>

> My response will deal more with thoose that are

>actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on the side

>of the highway or just detained.

>

> I have worked both in a County Jail and within the

>Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I thought I

>would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and Prisoners from

>a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you and I.

> They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance premiums,

>co-pays, and other bills associated with their medical

>care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive their

>treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s appointment

>sometime too.

>

> In your question you mentioned Jails and Prison. Keep

>in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets of

>institutions and each plays by different sets of rules.

> County Jails house inmates and prisoners that are either

>awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or less of

>confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are awaiting

>transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

>incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and sentenced to

>180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail Felonies).

> Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced to a

>term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd Degree &

>Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and Prisons

>will have on-site medical care. Only larger County Jails

>will have on-site medical facilities.

>

> The Texas Commission on Jail Standards implements and

>enforces the rules associated with County Jails and

>provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is covered

>in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In Part 9,

>Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate Healthcare is

>covered. Each institution is required to have a written

>Health Services Plan and the plan must address a list of

>topics.

>

> Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is ultimately

>responsible for each and every inmate’s health and

>safety. He is also responsible for the safety of the

>citizens of his county and the State of Texas. You will

>not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a jail, but

>will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer has

>delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

>confinement and potential transport of anyone that is

>incarcerated. You can not force them to transport an

>inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport for

>anyone that is housed in that facility. By you showing

>up, you have offered a transport, it is their decision as

>to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to be

>transported unless it is determined to be a

>life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

>situation

>

> Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit of

>transferring any inmate outside of the jail. Anytime an

>inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is a

>security risk. This risk must be determined based on

>each inmate’s charges or conviction and history and

>escape potential and weighed against the potential

>outcome of their medical condition. This transport / no

>transport decision was mine when I worked at both the

>County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you would not

>have been called unless I had decided to call you, and

>knew there was an imminent transport situation. On a

>couple of occasions I did have ambulances called and

>cancelled them, or refused transport, because of a change

>in the condition of the inmate.

>

> Inmates and Prisoners are always looking for a way out.

> Even if not to escape, just to get a trip to the “free

>world” for a short bit of time. This is akin to a 1 week

>vacation for you or me to an exotic locale. As a medical

>professional your primary concern is that of your safety.

> Remember that from EMT school! Your secondary concern

>is the safety of your partner. Your final concern is

>that of the well-being of the inmate. The safety

>concerns of the jail staff are 1) the citizens, 2) you

>and your partner, 3) their staff, 4) the inmate. I am

>not saying that we should not be concerned with the

>health and well-being of the inmate, but the safety risks

>must also be assessed also.

>

> If you are called to a jail, always, always, always put

>#1 first. Not all jailers and correctional officers are

>created equally. Trust no one. Assess your patient (if

>it is safe), if it is not safe, have the staff make it

>safe. Never ask what the inmate is being held for. You

>should always assume they are the worst of the worst and

>protect yourself accordingly.

>

> Know the capabilities of the facility. Is it 5 AM

>Monday morning and an inmate has a simple laceration that

>needs sutures, and the staff doctor will be there at 6

>AM? Is this something that can wait for a short period

>of time or is it a truly life or limb threatening

>emergency? Is this something that the Hospital ER staff

>will tend to right now, or will this inmate sit in

>observation room for hours on end before tended to?

> Again, know the capabilities of the facility. I suggest

>you call the jail and ask to speak with the officer in

>charge (usually a Sergeant or Lieutenant) on a weekday.

> Ask them if you can come by and take a tour and ask

>questions about their capabilities. Ask them if they

>have on-site medical care. If so, visit with them and

>assess their capabilities and short-falls, create a

>rapport with them.

>

> Remember, you can always call Medical Control and

>discuss the situation with them. The jail will usually

>allow you to make the call from a land line phone. Have

>Medical Control talk directly to the jail officer after

>you have informed them of the situation. NEVER have a

>discussion in front of any inmate, especially the one

>being treated. Always be diplomatic, you do not want to

>get on bad terms with the jail, you may have to respond

>there again, and want to have a positive relationship

>with them. You CAN NOT transport if they do not allow

>you to, and should document accordingly (after you leave

>the jail). Get the refusal signed and document,

>document, document!!!!! When documenting, do not use the

>word patient. Inmates LOVE to sue, and the word inmate,

>offender, or prisoner makes a statement to a jury if

>necessary (been there, done that MANY times).

>

>

> E. Tate, LP

>

>

>

> EMT Basic wrote:

>

> Sorry-....

>

> 1. Can an EMS agency or medical director make a policy,

>which doesn't allow the transport of prisoners or persons

>in custody of law enforcement?

>

> 2. What rights does a prisoner or " detainee " have when

>it comes to medical treatment?

>

> 3. What about " un-official " policies regrading prisoner

>transports? (i.e. " We only see the prisoners becasue the

>police want to cover their own butts, we're not there to

>take them (prisoners) to the hospital, they don't have

>that right. " )

>

> If anyone else has any more questions please reply.

>

> - Txbasic

>

> " E. Tate " wrote:

> From what perspective are you asking? There are too

>many wild cards in your questions. Can you simplify or

>clarify?

>

> Tater

>

>

> txbasic wrote:

>

> Hello-

>

> Has anyone here ever heard of a policy in which the EMS

>service,

> which responds to a jail or prison, is told that they

> " don't

> transport prisoners unless its a life-threatening

>situation. We

> don't even offer them transport. " As far as I know if

>someone is in

> custody - The arresting officer or the officer in charge

>of

> the " prisoner " or " detainee " more or less gives the say

>so if they

> are transported, and in the event they aren't, the

>officer signs the

> refusal in place of the pt's...? As far as not even

>offering someone

> transport (prisoner or not) I would say that opens you

>and your

> service up for all kinds of legal issues, not to mention

>the ethical

> issues in denying someone medical treatment, when that

>pt thinks

> they need it. I understand that prisoners often try

>different

> tactics to avoid being behind bars or being detained,

>however, I

> don't belive that is in the best intrest of the pt' or

>EMS to make

> that decision. If I could refuse pt's transport on the

>grounds

> that " it's not life threatening or they don't need it " I

>would have

> one heck of an easy day at work. But for someone to tell

>me, that I

> am not supposed to even offer a " prisoner " transport,

>and that

> policy doesn't allow it, well just sounds rediculous. If

>anyone here

> knows of laws regarding prisoner rights regarding

>medical

> treatment/transport/ and EMS please reply either on here

>or at

> txbasic@... In addition to that, does anyone know

>if medical

> direction or agency policy has the right to do that? And

>last but

> not least... I would like some law enforcement insight

>regarding

> this.

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, most encounters I have had went like this:

City jail, PD left it up to us and/or prisioner to

determine transport. Sometimes you say the prisoner

does not need to go, but the prisoner insists.

Coutny jail, same way.

State or Federal prison, if you get called it is

because the pt is going because a doctor has

determined that the patient needs transport.

Now as for anyone else that is detained, I guess the

officers have the right to refuse transport of the

prisoner in their custody, but they have to sign the

refusal form. Any other way, the PD is asking for

alot of legal trouble. Document everything told by

PD, CYA!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

--- Myron Schmiedekamp wrote:

> Very well put , To add to this I worked for

> awhile in

> our County Parks Dept.

> and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work

> outside

> inmate work crews.

> Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical

> condition

> occur we did an initial

> assessment and then were required to contact the

> Jail

> Captain or Supervisor

> and advise them of the situation and the decision

> for the

> inmate to be seen by

> Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was

> entirely up

> to them. Usually an armed

> LE officer would meet us if they went to an outside

> medical facility. Hope this helps

> as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

> " E. Tate " wrote:

> > I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles of

> this

> >list.

> >

> > My response will deal more with thoose that are

> >actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on

> the side

> >of the highway or just detained.

> >

> > I have worked both in a County Jail and within

> the

> >Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I thought

> I

> >would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

> Prisoners from

> >a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you and

> I.

> > They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance

> premiums,

> >co-pays, and other bills associated with their

> medical

> >care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

> their

> >treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s

> appointment

> >sometime too.

> >

> > In your question you mentioned Jails and Prison.

> Keep

> >in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets

> of

> >institutions and each plays by different sets of

> rules.

> > County Jails house inmates and prisoners that are

> either

> >awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or

> less of

> >confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are

> awaiting

> >transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

> >incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and

> sentenced to

> >180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail

> Felonies).

> > Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced

> to a

> >term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd Degree

> &

> >Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and

> Prisons

> >will have on-site medical care. Only larger County

> Jails

> >will have on-site medical facilities.

> >

> > The Texas Commission on Jail Standards implements

> and

> >enforces the rules associated with County Jails and

>

> >provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is

> covered

> >in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In

> Part 9,

> >Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate Healthcare

> is

> >covered. Each institution is required to have a

> written

> >Health Services Plan and the plan must address a

> list of

> >topics.

> >

> > Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is

> ultimately

> >responsible for each and every inmate’s health and

> >safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

> the

> >citizens of his county and the State of Texas. You

> will

> >not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a

> jail, but

> >will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer has

>

> >delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

> >confinement and potential transport of anyone that

> is

> >incarcerated. You can not force them to transport

> an

> >inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport

> for

> >anyone that is housed in that facility. By you

> showing

> >up, you have offered a transport, it is their

> decision as

> >to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to be

>

> >transported unless it is determined to be a

> >life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

> >situation

> >

> > Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit of

> >transferring any inmate outside of the jail.

> Anytime an

> >inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is a

>

> >security risk. This risk must be determined based

> on

> >each inmate’s charges or conviction and history and

>

> >escape potential and weighed against the potential

> >outcome of their medical condition. This transport

> / no

> >transport decision was mine when I worked at both

> the

> >County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you would

> not

> >have been called unless I had decided to call you,

> and

> >knew there was an imminent transport situation. On

> a

> >couple of occasions I did have ambulances called

> and

> >cancelled them, or refused transport, because of a

> change

> >in the condition of the inmate.

> >

> > Inmates and Prisoners are always looking for a

> way out.

> > Even if not to escape, just to get a trip to the

> “free

> >world” for a short bit of time. This is akin to a

> 1 week

> >vacation for you or me to an exotic locale. As a

> medical

> >professional your primary concern is that of your

> safety.

> > Remember that from EMT school! Your secondary

> concern

> >is the safety of your partner. Your final concern

> is

> >that of the well-being of the inmate. The safety

> >concerns of the jail staff are 1) the citizens, 2)

> you

> >and your partner, 3) their staff, 4) the inmate. I

> am

> >not saying that we should not be concerned with the

>

> >health and well-being of the inmate, but the safety

> risks

> >must also be assessed also.

> >

> > If you are called to a jail, always, always,

> always put

> >#1 first. Not all jailers and correctional

> officers are

> >created equally. Trust no one. Assess your

> patient (if

> >it is safe), if it is not safe, have the staff make

> it

> >safe. Never ask what the inmate is being held for.

> You

> >should always assume they are the worst of the

> worst and

> >protect yourself accordingly.

> >

> > Know the capabilities of the facility. Is it 5

> AM

> >Monday morning and an inmate has a simple

> laceration that

> >needs sutures, and the staff doctor will be there

> at 6

> >AM? Is this something that can wait for a short

> period

> >of time or is it a truly life or limb threatening

> >emergency? Is this something that the Hospital ER

> staff

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The way I've been told, the prisoner has " no rights " He can't refuse treatment

and transport. I don't believe this!

salvador capuchino wrote: Well, most encounters I have

had went like this:

City jail, PD left it up to us and/or prisioner to

determine transport. Sometimes you say the prisoner

does not need to go, but the prisoner insists.

Coutny jail, same way.

State or Federal prison, if you get called it is

because the pt is going because a doctor has

determined that the patient needs transport.

Now as for anyone else that is detained, I guess the

officers have the right to refuse transport of the

prisoner in their custody, but they have to sign the

refusal form. Any other way, the PD is asking for

alot of legal trouble. Document everything told by

PD, CYA!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

--- Myron Schmiedekamp wrote:

> Very well put , To add to this I worked for

> awhile in

> our County Parks Dept.

> and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work

> outside

> inmate work crews.

> Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical

> condition

> occur we did an initial

> assessment and then were required to contact the

> Jail

> Captain or Supervisor

> and advise them of the situation and the decision

> for the

> inmate to be seen by

> Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was

> entirely up

> to them. Usually an armed

> LE officer would meet us if they went to an outside

> medical facility. Hope this helps

> as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

> " E. Tate " wrote:

> > I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles of

> this

> >list.

> >

> > My response will deal more with thoose that are

> >actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on

> the side

> >of the highway or just detained.

> >

> > I have worked both in a County Jail and within

> the

> >Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I thought

> I

> >would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

> Prisoners from

> >a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you and

> I.

> > They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance

> premiums,

> >co-pays, and other bills associated with their

> medical

> >care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

> their

> >treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s

> appointment

> >sometime too.

> >

> > In your question you mentioned Jails and Prison.

> Keep

> >in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets

> of

> >institutions and each plays by different sets of

> rules.

> > County Jails house inmates and prisoners that are

> either

> >awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or

> less of

> >confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are

> awaiting

> >transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

> >incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and

> sentenced to

> >180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail

> Felonies).

> > Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced

> to a

> >term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd Degree

> &

> >Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and

> Prisons

> >will have on-site medical care. Only larger County

> Jails

> >will have on-site medical facilities.

> >

> > The Texas Commission on Jail Standards implements

> and

> >enforces the rules associated with County Jails and

>

> >provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is

> covered

> >in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In

> Part 9,

> >Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate Healthcare

> is

> >covered. Each institution is required to have a

> written

> >Health Services Plan and the plan must address a

> list of

> >topics.

> >

> > Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is

> ultimately

> >responsible for each and every inmate’s health and

> >safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

> the

> >citizens of his county and the State of Texas. You

> will

> >not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a

> jail, but

> >will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer has

>

> >delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

> >confinement and potential transport of anyone that

> is

> >incarcerated. You can not force them to transport

> an

> >inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport

> for

> >anyone that is housed in that facility. By you

> showing

> >up, you have offered a transport, it is their

> decision as

> >to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to be

>

> >transported unless it is determined to be a

> >life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

> >situation

> >

> > Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit of

> >transferring any inmate outside of the jail.

> Anytime an

> >inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is a

>

> >security risk. This risk must be determined based

> on

> >each inmate’s charges or conviction and history and

>

> >escape potential and weighed against the potential

> >outcome of their medical condition. This transport

> / no

> >transport decision was mine when I worked at both

> the

> >County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you would

> not

> >have been called unless I had decided to call you,

> and

> >knew there was an imminent transport situation. On

> a

> >couple of occasions I did have ambulances called

> and

> >cancelled them, or refused transport, because of a

> change

> >in the condition of the inmate.

> >

> > Inmates and Prisoners are always looking for a

> way out.

> > Even if not to escape, just to get a trip to the

> “free

> >world” for a short bit of time. This is akin to a

> 1 week

> >vacation for you or me to an exotic locale. As a

> medical

> >professional your primary concern is that of your

> safety.

> > Remember that from EMT school! Your secondary

> concern

> >is the safety of your partner. Your final concern

> is

> >that of the well-being of the inmate. The safety

> >concerns of the jail staff are 1) the citizens, 2)

> you

> >and your partner, 3) their staff, 4) the inmate. I

> am

> >not saying that we should not be concerned with the

>

> >health and well-being of the inmate, but the safety

> risks

> >must also be assessed also.

> >

> > If you are called to a jail, always, always,

> always put

> >#1 first. Not all jailers and correctional

> officers are

> >created equally. Trust no one. Assess your

> patient (if

> >it is safe), if it is not safe, have the staff make

> it

> >safe. Never ask what the inmate is being held for.

> You

> >should always assume they are the worst of the

> worst and

> >protect yourself accordingly.

> >

> > Know the capabilities of the facility. Is it 5

> AM

> >Monday morning and an inmate has a simple

> laceration that

> >needs sutures, and the staff doctor will be there

> at 6

> >AM? Is this something that can wait for a short

> period

> >of time or is it a truly life or limb threatening

> >emergency? Is this something that the Hospital ER

> staff

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Then you've been told wrong because anyone who has

ever worked a prison, even officers, can tell you that

prisoners have more rights than we do.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

--- learningmedic wrote:

> The way I've been told, the prisoner has " no rights "

> He can't refuse treatment and transport. I don't

> believe this!

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well, most encounters I have had went like this:

> City jail, PD left it up to us and/or prisioner to

> determine transport. Sometimes you say the prisoner

> does not need to go, but the prisoner insists.

> Coutny jail, same way.

> State or Federal prison, if you get called it is

> because the pt is going because a doctor has

> determined that the patient needs transport.

> Now as for anyone else that is detained, I guess the

> officers have the right to refuse transport of the

> prisoner in their custody, but they have to sign the

> refusal form. Any other way, the PD is asking for

> alot of legal trouble. Document everything told by

> PD, CYA!!!

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

>

> --- Myron Schmiedekamp wrote:

>

> > Very well put , To add to this I worked for

> > awhile in

> > our County Parks Dept.

> > and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work

> > outside

> > inmate work crews.

> > Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical

> > condition

> > occur we did an initial

> > assessment and then were required to contact the

> > Jail

> > Captain or Supervisor

> > and advise them of the situation and the decision

> > for the

> > inmate to be seen by

> > Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was

> > entirely up

> > to them. Usually an armed

> > LE officer would meet us if they went to an

> outside

> > medical facility. Hope this helps

> > as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

> > " E. Tate " wrote:

> > > I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles

> of

> > this

> > >list.

> > >

> > > My response will deal more with thoose that are

>

> > >actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on

> > the side

> > >of the highway or just detained.

> > >

> > > I have worked both in a County Jail and within

> > the

> > >Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I

> thought

> > I

> > >would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

> > Prisoners from

> > >a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you

> and

> > I.

> > > They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance

> > premiums,

> > >co-pays, and other bills associated with their

> > medical

> > >care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

> > their

> > >treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s

> > appointment

> > >sometime too.

> > >

> > > In your question you mentioned Jails and

> Prison.

> > Keep

> > >in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets

> > of

> > >institutions and each plays by different sets of

> > rules.

> > > County Jails house inmates and prisoners that

> are

> > either

> > >awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or

> > less of

> > >confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are

> > awaiting

> > >transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

> > >incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and

> > sentenced to

> > >180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail

> > Felonies).

> > > Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced

> > to a

> > >term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd

> Degree

> > &

> > >Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and

> > Prisons

> > >will have on-site medical care. Only larger

> County

> > Jails

> > >will have on-site medical facilities.

> > >

> > > The Texas Commission on Jail Standards

> implements

> > and

> > >enforces the rules associated with County Jails

> and

> >

> > >provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is

> > covered

> > >in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In

> > Part 9,

> > >Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate

> Healthcare

> > is

> > >covered. Each institution is required to have a

> > written

> > >Health Services Plan and the plan must address a

> > list of

> > >topics.

> > >

> > > Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is

> > ultimately

> > >responsible for each and every inmate’s health

> and

> > >safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

> > the

> > >citizens of his county and the State of Texas.

> You

> > will

> > >not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a

> > jail, but

> > >will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer

> has

> >

> > >delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

> > >confinement and potential transport of anyone

> that

> > is

> > >incarcerated. You can not force them to

> transport

> > an

> > >inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport

> > for

> > >anyone that is housed in that facility. By you

> > showing

> > >up, you have offered a transport, it is their

> > decision as

> > >to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to

> be

> >

> > >transported unless it is determined to be a

> > >life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

> > >situation

> > >

> > > Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit

> of

> > >transferring any inmate outside of the jail.

> > Anytime an

> > >inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is

> a

> >

> > >security risk. This risk must be determined

> based

> > on

> > >each inmate’s charges or conviction and history

> and

> >

> > >escape potential and weighed against the

> potential

> > >outcome of their medical condition. This

> transport

> > / no

> > >transport decision was mine when I worked at both

> > the

> > >County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you

> would

> > not

> > >have been called unless I had decided to call

> you,

> > and

> > >knew there was an imminent transport situation.

> On

> > a

> > >couple of occasions I did have ambulances called

> > and

> > >cancelled them, or refused transport, because of

> a

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Then you've been told wrong because anyone who has

ever worked a prison, even officers, can tell you that

prisoners have more rights than we do.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

--- learningmedic wrote:

> The way I've been told, the prisoner has " no rights "

> He can't refuse treatment and transport. I don't

> believe this!

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well, most encounters I have had went like this:

> City jail, PD left it up to us and/or prisioner to

> determine transport. Sometimes you say the prisoner

> does not need to go, but the prisoner insists.

> Coutny jail, same way.

> State or Federal prison, if you get called it is

> because the pt is going because a doctor has

> determined that the patient needs transport.

> Now as for anyone else that is detained, I guess the

> officers have the right to refuse transport of the

> prisoner in their custody, but they have to sign the

> refusal form. Any other way, the PD is asking for

> alot of legal trouble. Document everything told by

> PD, CYA!!!

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

>

> --- Myron Schmiedekamp wrote:

>

> > Very well put , To add to this I worked for

> > awhile in

> > our County Parks Dept.

> > and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work

> > outside

> > inmate work crews.

> > Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical

> > condition

> > occur we did an initial

> > assessment and then were required to contact the

> > Jail

> > Captain or Supervisor

> > and advise them of the situation and the decision

> > for the

> > inmate to be seen by

> > Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was

> > entirely up

> > to them. Usually an armed

> > LE officer would meet us if they went to an

> outside

> > medical facility. Hope this helps

> > as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

> > " E. Tate " wrote:

> > > I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles

> of

> > this

> > >list.

> > >

> > > My response will deal more with thoose that are

>

> > >actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on

> > the side

> > >of the highway or just detained.

> > >

> > > I have worked both in a County Jail and within

> > the

> > >Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I

> thought

> > I

> > >would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

> > Prisoners from

> > >a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you

> and

> > I.

> > > They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance

> > premiums,

> > >co-pays, and other bills associated with their

> > medical

> > >care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

> > their

> > >treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s

> > appointment

> > >sometime too.

> > >

> > > In your question you mentioned Jails and

> Prison.

> > Keep

> > >in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets

> > of

> > >institutions and each plays by different sets of

> > rules.

> > > County Jails house inmates and prisoners that

> are

> > either

> > >awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or

> > less of

> > >confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are

> > awaiting

> > >transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

> > >incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and

> > sentenced to

> > >180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail

> > Felonies).

> > > Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced

> > to a

> > >term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd

> Degree

> > &

> > >Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and

> > Prisons

> > >will have on-site medical care. Only larger

> County

> > Jails

> > >will have on-site medical facilities.

> > >

> > > The Texas Commission on Jail Standards

> implements

> > and

> > >enforces the rules associated with County Jails

> and

> >

> > >provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is

> > covered

> > >in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In

> > Part 9,

> > >Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate

> Healthcare

> > is

> > >covered. Each institution is required to have a

> > written

> > >Health Services Plan and the plan must address a

> > list of

> > >topics.

> > >

> > > Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is

> > ultimately

> > >responsible for each and every inmate’s health

> and

> > >safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

> > the

> > >citizens of his county and the State of Texas.

> You

> > will

> > >not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a

> > jail, but

> > >will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer

> has

> >

> > >delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

> > >confinement and potential transport of anyone

> that

> > is

> > >incarcerated. You can not force them to

> transport

> > an

> > >inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport

> > for

> > >anyone that is housed in that facility. By you

> > showing

> > >up, you have offered a transport, it is their

> > decision as

> > >to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to

> be

> >

> > >transported unless it is determined to be a

> > >life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

> > >situation

> > >

> > > Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit

> of

> > >transferring any inmate outside of the jail.

> > Anytime an

> > >inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is

> a

> >

> > >security risk. This risk must be determined

> based

> > on

> > >each inmate’s charges or conviction and history

> and

> >

> > >escape potential and weighed against the

> potential

> > >outcome of their medical condition. This

> transport

> > / no

> > >transport decision was mine when I worked at both

> > the

> > >County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you

> would

> > not

> > >have been called unless I had decided to call

> you,

> > and

> > >knew there was an imminent transport situation.

> On

> > a

> > >couple of occasions I did have ambulances called

> > and

> > >cancelled them, or refused transport, because of

> a

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

With Prisoners generally they can not refuse treatment. They are esentially

wards (some of the lawyers can explain the technical aspects) of the State.

However, we can't force them to get castrated, etc, but with emergencies and

necessary treatments, they can not refuse. I've been present more than once

when inmates were forced into treatments.

Tater

learningmedic wrote:

The way I've been told, the prisoner has " no rights " He can't refuse treatment

and transport. I don't believe this!

salvador capuchino wrote: Well, most encounters I have

had went like this:

City jail, PD left it up to us and/or prisioner to

determine transport. Sometimes you say the prisoner

does not need to go, but the prisoner insists.

Coutny jail, same way.

State or Federal prison, if you get called it is

because the pt is going because a doctor has

determined that the patient needs transport.

Now as for anyone else that is detained, I guess the

officers have the right to refuse transport of the

prisoner in their custody, but they have to sign the

refusal form. Any other way, the PD is asking for

alot of legal trouble. Document everything told by

PD, CYA!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

--- Myron Schmiedekamp wrote:

> Very well put , To add to this I worked for

> awhile in

> our County Parks Dept.

> and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work

> outside

> inmate work crews.

> Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical

> condition

> occur we did an initial

> assessment and then were required to contact the

> Jail

> Captain or Supervisor

> and advise them of the situation and the decision

> for the

> inmate to be seen by

> Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was

> entirely up

> to them. Usually an armed

> LE officer would meet us if they went to an outside

> medical facility. Hope this helps

> as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

> " E. Tate " wrote:

> > I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles of

> this

> >list.

> >

> > My response will deal more with thoose that are

> >actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on

> the side

> >of the highway or just detained.

> >

> > I have worked both in a County Jail and within

> the

> >Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I thought

> I

> >would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

> Prisoners from

> >a “rights†standpoint have more rights than you and

> I.

> > They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance

> premiums,

> >co-pays, and other bills associated with their

> medical

> >care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

> their

> >treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s

> appointment

> >sometime too.

> >

> > In your question you mentioned Jails and Prison.

> Keep

> >in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets

> of

> >institutions and each plays by different sets of

> rules.

> > County Jails house inmates and prisoners that are

> either

> >awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or

> less of

> >confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are

> awaiting

> >transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

> >incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and

> sentenced to

> >180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail

> Felonies).

> > Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced

> to a

> >term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd Degree

> &

> >Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and

> Prisons

> >will have on-site medical care. Only larger County

> Jails

> >will have on-site medical facilities.

> >

> > The Texas Commission on Jail Standards implements

> and

> >enforces the rules associated with County Jails and

>

> >provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is

> covered

> >in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In

> Part 9,

> >Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate Healthcare

> is

> >covered. Each institution is required to have a

> written

> >Health Services Plan and the plan must address a

> list of

> >topics.

> >

> > Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is

> ultimately

> >responsible for each and every inmate’s health and

> >safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

> the

> >citizens of his county and the State of Texas. You

> will

> >not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a

> jail, but

> >will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer has

>

> >delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

> >confinement and potential transport of anyone that

> is

> >incarcerated. You can not force them to transport

> an

> >inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport

> for

> >anyone that is housed in that facility. By you

> showing

> >up, you have offered a transport, it is their

> decision as

> >to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to be

>

> >transported unless it is determined to be a

> >life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

> >situation

> >

> > Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit of

> >transferring any inmate outside of the jail.

> Anytime an

> >inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is a

>

> >security risk. This risk must be determined based

> on

> >each inmate’s charges or conviction and history and

>

> >escape potential and weighed against the potential

> >outcome of their medical condition. This transport

> / no

> >transport decision was mine when I worked at both

> the

> >County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you would

> not

> >have been called unless I had decided to call you,

> and

> >knew there was an imminent transport situation. On

> a

> >couple of occasions I did have ambulances called

> and

> >cancelled them, or refused transport, because of a

> change

> >in the condition of the inmate.

> >

> > Inmates and Prisoners are always looking for a

> way out.

> > Even if not to escape, just to get a trip to the

> “free

> >world†for a short bit of time. This is akin to a

> 1 week

> >vacation for you or me to an exotic locale. As a

> medical

> >professional your primary concern is that of your

> safety.

> > Remember that from EMT school! Your secondary

> concern

> >is the safety of your partner. Your final concern

> is

> >that of the well-being of the inmate. The safety

> >concerns of the jail staff are 1) the citizens, 2)

> you

> >and your partner, 3) their staff, 4) the inmate. I

> am

> >not saying that we should not be concerned with the

>

> >health and well-being of the inmate, but the safety

> risks

> >must also be assessed also.

> >

> > If you are called to a jail, always, always,

> always put

> >#1 first. Not all jailers and correctional

> officers are

> >created equally. Trust no one. Assess your

> patient (if

> >it is safe), if it is not safe, have the staff make

> it

> >safe. Never ask what the inmate is being held for.

> You

> >should always assume they are the worst of the

> worst and

> >protect yourself accordingly.

> >

> > Know the capabilities of the facility. Is it 5

> AM

> >Monday morning and an inmate has a simple

> laceration that

> >needs sutures, and the staff doctor will be there

> at 6

> >AM? Is this something that can wait for a short

> period

> >of time or is it a truly life or limb threatening

> >emergency? Is this something that the Hospital ER

> staff

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

With Prisoners generally they can not refuse treatment. They are esentially

wards (some of the lawyers can explain the technical aspects) of the State.

However, we can't force them to get castrated, etc, but with emergencies and

necessary treatments, they can not refuse. I've been present more than once

when inmates were forced into treatments.

Tater

learningmedic wrote:

The way I've been told, the prisoner has " no rights " He can't refuse treatment

and transport. I don't believe this!

salvador capuchino wrote: Well, most encounters I have

had went like this:

City jail, PD left it up to us and/or prisioner to

determine transport. Sometimes you say the prisoner

does not need to go, but the prisoner insists.

Coutny jail, same way.

State or Federal prison, if you get called it is

because the pt is going because a doctor has

determined that the patient needs transport.

Now as for anyone else that is detained, I guess the

officers have the right to refuse transport of the

prisoner in their custody, but they have to sign the

refusal form. Any other way, the PD is asking for

alot of legal trouble. Document everything told by

PD, CYA!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic/Volunteer FF

--- Myron Schmiedekamp wrote:

> Very well put , To add to this I worked for

> awhile in

> our County Parks Dept.

> and was required to hold a jailors Cert to work

> outside

> inmate work crews.

> Whenever an inmate had an injury or medical

> condition

> occur we did an initial

> assessment and then were required to contact the

> Jail

> Captain or Supervisor

> and advise them of the situation and the decision

> for the

> inmate to be seen by

> Jail medical staff or go to a minor clinic was

> entirely up

> to them. Usually an armed

> LE officer would meet us if they went to an outside

> medical facility. Hope this helps

> as to outside work inmates. Myron S. EMT-B

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:17:45 -0800 (PST)

> " E. Tate " wrote:

> > I'll leave questions 1 & 3 to the legal eagles of

> this

> >list.

> >

> > My response will deal more with thoose that are

> >actually in Jail as opposed to those that are on

> the side

> >of the highway or just detained.

> >

> > I have worked both in a County Jail and within

> the

> >Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I thought

> I

> >would weigh in on this topic. Inmates and

> Prisoners from

> >a “rights” standpoint have more rights than you and

> I.

> > They don’t (generally) have to pay insurance

> premiums,

> >co-pays, and other bills associated with their

> medical

> >care. Sometimes they may have to wait to receive

> their

> >treatment, but I have to wait for a doctor’s

> appointment

> >sometime too.

> >

> > In your question you mentioned Jails and Prison.

> Keep

> >in mind that these are 2 completely separate sets

> of

> >institutions and each plays by different sets of

> rules.

> > County Jails house inmates and prisoners that are

> either

> >awaiting trial, have been sentenced to 1 year or

> less of

> >confinement (any misdemeanor conviction), or are

> awaiting

> >transfer to a State Jail or Prison. State Jails

> >incarcerate prisoners that are convicted and

> sentenced to

> >180 Days - 2 Years of confinement (State Jail

> Felonies).

> > Prisons incarcerate prisoners that are sentenced

> to a

> >term of 2 years or greater (1st, 2nd, & 3rd Degree

> &

> >Capital Felonies). Generally, State Jails and

> Prisons

> >will have on-site medical care. Only larger County

> Jails

> >will have on-site medical facilities.

> >

> > The Texas Commission on Jail Standards implements

> and

> >enforces the rules associated with County Jails and

>

> >provides assistance to State Jails. The TCJS is

> covered

> >in Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code. In

> Part 9,

> >Chapter 273, the rules concerning Inmate Healthcare

> is

> >covered. Each institution is required to have a

> written

> >Health Services Plan and the plan must address a

> list of

> >topics.

> >

> > Now, having said all of that, the Sheriff is

> ultimately

> >responsible for each and every inmate’s health and

> >safety. He is also responsible for the safety of

> the

> >citizens of his county and the State of Texas. You

> will

> >not usually deal with the Sheriff himself in a

> jail, but

> >will deal with a jail supervisor. That officer has

>

> >delegated duties from the sheriff regarding the

> >confinement and potential transport of anyone that

> is

> >incarcerated. You can not force them to transport

> an

> >inmate and they can sign a refusal for transport

> for

> >anyone that is housed in that facility. By you

> showing

> >up, you have offered a transport, it is their

> decision as

> >to accept or decline. An inmate is not going to be

>

> >transported unless it is determined to be a

> >life-threatening or potentially life-threatening

> >situation

> >

> > Every officer must weigh the risk vs. benefit of

> >transferring any inmate outside of the jail.

> Anytime an

> >inmate exits the confinement of the jail there is a

>

> >security risk. This risk must be determined based

> on

> >each inmate’s charges or conviction and history and

>

> >escape potential and weighed against the potential

> >outcome of their medical condition. This transport

> / no

> >transport decision was mine when I worked at both

> the

> >County Jail and within TDCJ. In my case, you would

> not

> >have been called unless I had decided to call you,

> and

> >knew there was an imminent transport situation. On

> a

> >couple of occasions I did have ambulances called

> and

> >cancelled them, or refused transport, because of a

> change

> >in the condition of the inmate.

> >

> > Inmates and Prisoners are always looking for a

> way out.

> > Even if not to escape, just to get a trip to the

> “free

> >world” for a short bit of time. This is akin to a

> 1 week

> >vacation for you or me to an exotic locale. As a

> medical

> >professional your primary concern is that of your

> safety.

> > Remember that from EMT school! Your secondary

> concern

> >is the safety of your partner. Your final concern

> is

> >that of the well-being of the inmate. The safety

> >concerns of the jail staff are 1) the citizens, 2)

> you

> >and your partner, 3) their staff, 4) the inmate. I

> am

> >not saying that we should not be concerned with the

>

> >health and well-being of the inmate, but the safety

> risks

> >must also be assessed also.

> >

> > If you are called to a jail, always, always,

> always put

> >#1 first. Not all jailers and correctional

> officers are

> >created equally. Trust no one. Assess your

> patient (if

> >it is safe), if it is not safe, have the staff make

> it

> >safe. Never ask what the inmate is being held for.

> You

> >should always assume they are the worst of the

> worst and

> >protect yourself accordingly.

> >

> > Know the capabilities of the facility. Is it 5

> AM

> >Monday morning and an inmate has a simple

> laceration that

> >needs sutures, and the staff doctor will be there

> at 6

> >AM? Is this something that can wait for a short

> period

> >of time or is it a truly life or limb threatening

> >emergency? Is this something that the Hospital ER

> staff

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