Re: Topper and all - cortef..

[Guest guest]

Chris.... can I bang heads with you on this.... oh no... not battle... discussion of theory....

The reading that I did over three years ago suggested that the best way to supplement fatigued adrenals was to supplement the morning adrenal load. Taking the supplement upon first waking to reduce the call to the glands to release hormone.... Then not taking anything the rest of the day, allowing then glands to function normally, replacing reserves... eventually the reserves are met, the glands are able to keep things up to proper levels and the supplementation is no longer needed for the morning call......

This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for me, at least, it's worked.

I'm taking an adrenal glandular, all the adrenal hormones... not just cortisol.... Oh.. and for the first year or so I also took DHEA and then stopped... I 'felt' that I no longer needed it... and even have about a dozen tabs left... probably expired by now.....

I'm basing everything, pretty much, on personal observation and my charts and journals.... I seems to be doing okay... Assuming of course these two headaches this week aren't related....

Today was my day to finish 'polishing' the house. The folks will be back in a few hours.... I didn't bust my butt, been picking at things for a few days so that I wouldn't have too much to do today.... I even tackled the vacuum cleaner without incident.

I had a fifteen minute lay down in the 'head nest' just cuz I promised myself that I could have a lay down today if I got everything that I needed to get done done and I did.... but I really didn't feel any need to lay down... but I think it was still for the best, I had a busy morning... Things to do and a lot on my mind... Stress alleviation, mostly....

Anyway, I'd like to hear other points of view on this, adrenal supplementation to help fatigued adrenals, dosing, type of replacement, duration.. you know, all the FUN stuff!!! hehehehe....

Topper ()

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:33:50 -0000 "" writes:

Misty, here is the best way I can explain it. The adrenals, ifhealthy, produce 30 to 35 mg of cortisol. Hypothetically, if yourbody is making just 20 mg of cortisol and you start with 10 mg ofcortef, for 1 to 3 days or so you will feel pretty good, because yourbody has 30 mg now.When the signal reaches ACTH in the pituitary that there is cortisolcoming in, the ACTH will go down. When this happens, your naturalproduction goes down, by approximately the amount of the cortef taken(not exactly one for one though). So now your natural production isaround 10 mg (the 10 mg of coref replaced 10 mg of natural) and sowith the 10 mg of cortef, you are back to around 20 mg of cortisol (10mg natural, 10 mg cortef) in your body.Since the replacement doesn't work exactly one for one, you could endup with even less cortisol, like 18 or 19 mg.To get past all that you have to take more of the cortef. So uppingthe cortef to 20 mg would suppress almost all of the natural cortisolin your body (remember it's not one to one) and still leave you whereyou started. Upping the cortef to 25 mg, you have about 5 mg more inyour body (or 25 mg) than when before you took any of the cortef.The same kind of thing happens when taking thyroid meds. Just likeyou can't treat part way with thyroid meds, you can't treat partwaywith cortisol meds. Sure, the adrenals will be put to sleep, but if trying to bring theadrenals back, putting them to sleep will give them rest and a chanceto heal hopefully. Unfortunately, most people who try this, findtheir adrenals are unable to come back. I think adrenals not comingback is because most peoples adrenal insufficiency is not diagnosedfor years, so by the time treatment begins, the adrenals are todamaged to come back.Chris

[Guest guest]

> This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for

>me,at least, it's worked.

Could be that the adrenal granulars last longer in your body than just

the morning, sounds like they last you all day. How much do you take?

>proper levels and the supplementation is no longer needed for the

>morning

>This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for me,

>at least, it's worked.

You say you are still taking the adrenal grandulars though.

The people who said they fixed their adrenals, and there are very few

of them out there, took the full dose of cortef (usually 30 mg) of

hydrocortisone for a month or so, thus suppressing most of their

natural production and then slowly tapered off. Most people who try

this (maybe 90% or better, I don't really know), that doesn't work for

them.

I'm not sure that I have heard of anyone saying they fixed their

adrenals with supplements or Isocort. Meaning they eventually stopped

the supplements and now their adrenals are functioning well again.

Just doesn't seem to happen.

Chris

>

> Chris.... can I bang heads with you on this.... oh no... not battle...

> discussion of theory....

>

> The reading that I did over three years ago suggested that the best way

> to supplement fatigued adrenals was to supplement the morning adrenal

> load. Taking the supplement upon first waking to reduce the call to the

> glands to release hormone.... Then not taking anything the rest of the

> day, allowing then glands to function normally, replacing reserves...

> eventually the reserves are met, the glands are able to keep things

up to

> proper levels and the supplementation is no longer needed for the

morning

> call......

>

> This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for me, at

> least, it's worked.

>

> I'm taking an adrenal glandular, all the adrenal hormones... not just

> cortisol.... Oh.. and for the first year or so I also took DHEA and then

> stopped... I 'felt' that I no longer needed it... and even have about a

> dozen tabs left... probably expired by now.....

>

> I'm basing everything, pretty much, on personal observation and my

charts

> and journals.... I seems to be doing okay... Assuming of course

these two

> headaches this week aren't related....

>

> Today was my day to finish 'polishing' the house. The folks will be back

> in a few hours.... I didn't bust my butt, been picking at things for a

> few days so that I wouldn't have too much to do today.... I even tackled

> the vacuum cleaner without incident.

>

> I had a fifteen minute lay down in the 'head nest' just cuz I promised

> myself that I could have a lay down today if I got everything that I

> needed to get done done and I did.... but I really didn't feel any need

> to lay down... but I think it was still for the best, I had a busy

> morning... Things to do and a lot on my mind... Stress alleviation,

> mostly....

>

> Anyway, I'd like to hear other points of view on this, adrenal

> supplementation to help fatigued adrenals, dosing, type of replacement,

> duration.. you know, all the FUN stuff!!! hehehehe....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:33:50 -0000 " "

> <chrisgj@s...> writes:

> Misty, here is the best way I can explain it. The adrenals, if

> healthy, produce 30 to 35 mg of cortisol. Hypothetically, if your

> body is making just 20 mg of cortisol and you start with 10 mg of

> cortef, for 1 to 3 days or so you will feel pretty good, because your

> body has 30 mg now.

>

> When the signal reaches ACTH in the pituitary that there is cortisol

> coming in, the ACTH will go down. When this happens, your natural

> production goes down, by approximately the amount of the cortef taken

> (not exactly one for one though). So now your natural production is

> around 10 mg (the 10 mg of coref replaced 10 mg of natural) and so

> with the 10 mg of cortef, you are back to around 20 mg of cortisol (10

> mg natural, 10 mg cortef) in your body.

>

> Since the replacement doesn't work exactly one for one, you could end

> up with even less cortisol, like 18 or 19 mg.

>

> To get past all that you have to take more of the cortef. So upping

> the cortef to 20 mg would suppress almost all of the natural cortisol

> in your body (remember it's not one to one) and still leave you where

> you started. Upping the cortef to 25 mg, you have about 5 mg more in

> your body (or 25 mg) than when before you took any of the cortef.

>

> The same kind of thing happens when taking thyroid meds. Just like

> you can't treat part way with thyroid meds, you can't treat partway

> with cortisol meds.

>

> Sure, the adrenals will be put to sleep, but if trying to bring the

> adrenals back, putting them to sleep will give them rest and a chance

> to heal hopefully. Unfortunately, most people who try this, find

> their adrenals are unable to come back. I think adrenals not coming

> back is because most peoples adrenal insufficiency is not diagnosed

> for years, so by the time treatment begins, the adrenals are to

> damaged to come back.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

I started the adrenal glandular in November of 2002. I started with half a tab.. it made me feel so wonderful I literally collapsed a month later from muscle failure.. my run down body couldn't handle all the extra activity. I stopped the adrenal for 8 weeks and then started up again, but at 1/4 tab, taken sublingually the very first thing when I woke, along with my first thyroid dose of the day, also taken sublingually.

I gradually worked up to 1 1/2 tabs per day. Taken in two doses, the first 3/4 tab upon waking, the other 3/4 about 2 hours later.. happenstantially both were taken along with thyroid doses, all taken sublingually.

I held at that 1 1/2 tabs until... oh about October (going from memory) 2004 then tapered down to 1/2 tab by February 2005.. I was hoping to stop by then... but it didn't feel right.. I kicked it back up to 3/4 tab upon waking.... I backed it down to a half tab by spring, 1/4 tab by fall and stopped last November.

I'm at about the six week mark... from stopping.. I'd have to look that up too... heheheehe I do have most of a bottle left (100 tabs when full), in case I have to fall back on it.... gives me more confidence to know that I have a fall back when I'm weaning off a supplement.. just in case something goes wrong.

Sleep patterns are good. Body temp does the slight dip at bedtime, as it should... body temp comes up by morning, as it should.. I'm alert and awake at wake up time, usually without any alarm, sometimes I'll set it if there is a reason that I have to be sure to get up, which isn't that often. I generally wake between 5 and 6.. occasionally sleep as late as 7, if alone... when others are here I'm awake by 5 and if I'm not I will be by a quarter after.

I'm handling everyday stressors well.... Get mad when I should, I'm not a zombie (as I was before). I giggle when I should, laugh when I should, cry when I should (verses all the time before)

I'm gonna say all is working well.

The trick will be to see how I do with the stressors going up... living with rude people...

When I have some time to do some digging... I'll see if I still have the original stuff that I was reading before I started the adrenal glandular.....

I'm still wanting to understand this stuff.... what works for one does not work for all... if this is working for me, why, and can it work for others, and why?

Topper ()

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:17:18 -0000 "" writes:

> This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for>me,at least, it's worked.Could be that the adrenal granulars last longer in your body than justthe morning, sounds like they last you all day. How much do you take? >proper levels and the supplementation is no longer needed for the>morning>This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for me,>at least, it's worked.You say you are still taking the adrenal grandulars though.The people who said they fixed their adrenals, and there are very fewof them out there, took the full dose of cortef (usually 30 mg) ofhydrocortisone for a month or so, thus suppressing most of theirnatural production and then slowly tapered off. Most people who trythis (maybe 90% or better, I don't really know), that doesn't work forthem.I'm not sure that I have heard of anyone saying they fixed theiradrenals with supplements or Isocort. Meaning they eventually stoppedthe supplements and now their adrenals are functioning well again. Just doesn't seem to happen.Chris

[Guest guest]

I'm happy to see you feel ok without the adrenal grandulars. Did you

have adrenal testing before you started? Curious to see where you

were at then.

Chris

>

> I started the adrenal glandular in November of 2002. I started with half

> a tab.. it made me feel so wonderful I literally collapsed a month later

> from muscle failure.. my run down body couldn't handle all the extra

> activity. I stopped the adrenal for 8 weeks and then started up again,

> but at 1/4 tab, taken sublingually the very first thing when I woke,

> along with my first thyroid dose of the day, also taken sublingually.

>

> I gradually worked up to 1 1/2 tabs per day. Taken in two doses, the

> first 3/4 tab upon waking, the other 3/4 about 2 hours later..

> happenstantially both were taken along with thyroid doses, all taken

> sublingually.

>

> I held at that 1 1/2 tabs until... oh about October (going from memory)

> 2004 then tapered down to 1/2 tab by February 2005.. I was hoping to

stop

> by then... but it didn't feel right.. I kicked it back up to 3/4 tab

upon

> waking.... I backed it down to a half tab by spring, 1/4 tab by fall

> and stopped last November.

>

> I'm at about the six week mark... from stopping.. I'd have to look that

> up too... heheheehe I do have most of a bottle left (100 tabs when

> full), in case I have to fall back on it.... gives me more confidence to

> know that I have a fall back when I'm weaning off a supplement.. just in

> case something goes wrong.

>

> Sleep patterns are good. Body temp does the slight dip at bedtime, as it

> should... body temp comes up by morning, as it should.. I'm alert and

> awake at wake up time, usually without any alarm, sometimes I'll set it

> if there is a reason that I have to be sure to get up, which isn't that

> often. I generally wake between 5 and 6.. occasionally sleep as late as

> 7, if alone... when others are here I'm awake by 5 and if I'm not I will

> be by a quarter after.

>

> I'm handling everyday stressors well.... Get mad when I should, I'm

not a

> zombie (as I was before). I giggle when I should, laugh when I should,

> cry when I should (verses all the time before)

>

> I'm gonna say all is working well.

>

> The trick will be to see how I do with the stressors going up... living

> with rude people...

>

> When I have some time to do some digging... I'll see if I still have the

> original stuff that I was reading before I started the adrenal

> glandular.....

>

> I'm still wanting to understand this stuff.... what works for one does

> not work for all... if this is working for me, why, and can it work for

> others, and why?

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:17:18 -0000 " "

> <chrisgj@s...> writes:

>

> > This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for

> >me,at least, it's worked.

>

>

> Could be that the adrenal granulars last longer in your body than just

> the morning, sounds like they last you all day. How much do you take?

>

> >proper levels and the supplementation is no longer needed for the

> >morning

> >This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for me,

> >at least, it's worked.

>

> You say you are still taking the adrenal grandulars though.

>

> The people who said they fixed their adrenals, and there are very few

> of them out there, took the full dose of cortef (usually 30 mg) of

> hydrocortisone for a month or so, thus suppressing most of their

> natural production and then slowly tapered off. Most people who try

> this (maybe 90% or better, I don't really know), that doesn't work for

> them.

>

> I'm not sure that I have heard of anyone saying they fixed their

> adrenals with supplements or Isocort. Meaning they eventually stopped

> the supplements and now their adrenals are functioning well again.

> Just doesn't seem to happen.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

I'm happy to see you feel ok without the adrenal grandulars. Did you

have adrenal testing before you started? Curious to see where you

were at then.

Chris

>

> I started the adrenal glandular in November of 2002. I started with half

> a tab.. it made me feel so wonderful I literally collapsed a month later

> from muscle failure.. my run down body couldn't handle all the extra

> activity. I stopped the adrenal for 8 weeks and then started up again,

> but at 1/4 tab, taken sublingually the very first thing when I woke,

> along with my first thyroid dose of the day, also taken sublingually.

>

> I gradually worked up to 1 1/2 tabs per day. Taken in two doses, the

> first 3/4 tab upon waking, the other 3/4 about 2 hours later..

> happenstantially both were taken along with thyroid doses, all taken

> sublingually.

>

> I held at that 1 1/2 tabs until... oh about October (going from memory)

> 2004 then tapered down to 1/2 tab by February 2005.. I was hoping to

stop

> by then... but it didn't feel right.. I kicked it back up to 3/4 tab

upon

> waking.... I backed it down to a half tab by spring, 1/4 tab by fall

> and stopped last November.

>

> I'm at about the six week mark... from stopping.. I'd have to look that

> up too... heheheehe I do have most of a bottle left (100 tabs when

> full), in case I have to fall back on it.... gives me more confidence to

> know that I have a fall back when I'm weaning off a supplement.. just in

> case something goes wrong.

>

> Sleep patterns are good. Body temp does the slight dip at bedtime, as it

> should... body temp comes up by morning, as it should.. I'm alert and

> awake at wake up time, usually without any alarm, sometimes I'll set it

> if there is a reason that I have to be sure to get up, which isn't that

> often. I generally wake between 5 and 6.. occasionally sleep as late as

> 7, if alone... when others are here I'm awake by 5 and if I'm not I will

> be by a quarter after.

>

> I'm handling everyday stressors well.... Get mad when I should, I'm

not a

> zombie (as I was before). I giggle when I should, laugh when I should,

> cry when I should (verses all the time before)

>

> I'm gonna say all is working well.

>

> The trick will be to see how I do with the stressors going up... living

> with rude people...

>

> When I have some time to do some digging... I'll see if I still have the

> original stuff that I was reading before I started the adrenal

> glandular.....

>

> I'm still wanting to understand this stuff.... what works for one does

> not work for all... if this is working for me, why, and can it work for

> others, and why?

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:17:18 -0000 " "

> <chrisgj@s...> writes:

>

> > This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for

> >me,at least, it's worked.

>

>

> Could be that the adrenal granulars last longer in your body than just

> the morning, sounds like they last you all day. How much do you take?

>

> >proper levels and the supplementation is no longer needed for the

> >morning

> >This is the regime that I've followed... and I believe that for me,

> >at least, it's worked.

>

> You say you are still taking the adrenal grandulars though.

>

> The people who said they fixed their adrenals, and there are very few

> of them out there, took the full dose of cortef (usually 30 mg) of

> hydrocortisone for a month or so, thus suppressing most of their

> natural production and then slowly tapered off. Most people who try

> this (maybe 90% or better, I don't really know), that doesn't work for

> them.

>

> I'm not sure that I have heard of anyone saying they fixed their

> adrenals with supplements or Isocort. Meaning they eventually stopped

> the supplements and now their adrenals are functioning well again.

> Just doesn't seem to happen.

>

> Chris

>