Re: New to the group - LONG Topper

[Guest guest]

Topper - I would like to understand more about the natural thyroid hormone so that I will be able to talk to my doctor from a position of knowledge. Is this OTC or RX? Is there more than one kind? I have seen mention of Armour.

My pre-op TSH was 2.7 and this past April it was tested at 3.47, July 4.38, October 3.66, and December 5.09. So as you can see my trend is UP. Additional symptoms have included low sex drive to virtually NO drive this past year, occasional unexplained bouts with itchy spots that are resolved with an antihistimine, increase in my nasal allergy type symptoms, an increase in hair loss (not serious yet) and my hairdresser had told me to use a hair conditioner for the first time in my life this past year, and I burn out very easily (to the point that I do not like to commit to anything because I never know if I will feel good enough to do it).

Tuesday I will drop by my doctor's office and ask if he would add the Free T4, TSH, and thyroid antibodies to the current lab order (it already has selenium, copper, and Free T3). Do I need to do these labs fasting?

Sandy

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slkscb@... ~ Open RNY 12/8/03, 150 cm, Barix Clinics, 303/290 day of surgery/195 current/ goal is to be HEALTHY. Emergency appendectomy 11/1/04, Gallbladder 1/12/05. "Know your labs and track your trends." AZ Grads join us at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AZGRADSOFWLS/

Check out my gastric bypass journal at www.acdlady.com/WLS_1 for many educational links. My OH profile is at http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=M1062876220 I am not affiliated with the medical profession except as a proactive WLS post-op. "Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own, instead of someone else’s." – Wilder

-- Re: New to the group - LONG

Hi Sandy....

It would be a good idea to find out why your thyroid is under producing... it could be from the bypass..... insufficient energy/calories in the blood drastically reduces conversion rates and can leave you deficient in hormone.... You might also be dealing with poor thyroid function from before that, as you mention the fibro, which can often be misdiagnosed long term low thyroid, combined with your weight issue and the carpal tunnel that all fits.

Labs, of course, would be the first step. TSH is already too high, you know that. The mean level for the healthy population is 1.25, anything over 2.0 is cause for further testing to find out what is wrong... and you're in the process of doing that now.

The tests that should be run right now are TSH, again.

Free T4

Free T3

.... you're already following ferritin

and thyroid antibodies... to determine if there is an autoimmune issue in the works.

We'll get into this more as the tests are run and you get more information... but I'll throw something in now....

You mention a concern with absorption being a factor in being able to maintain consistent dosing with thyroid hormone replacement... there is actually an amazingly simple solution to that, one that many of us here follow even though we're not dealing with the absorption challenge that you are.

By using natural thyroid hormone you will eliminate the processing involved with the use of synthetic thyroid hormone. The synthetics are manufactured with a sodium molecule attached to the thyroid hormone. That sodium must be removed before the thyroid hormone is available for use by the body. Stomach acid is what is needed, in sufficient levels, to achieve that separation. So choosing natural thyroid hormone over synthetic will completely eliminate that hurdle for you.....

Now, the REAL plus to the use of natural is the fact that it may be taken sublingually, under the tongue. This allows direct absorption into the blood stream by way of the capillaries under the tongue, totally eliminating all the challenges that you'd be facing with your altered digestive system.

For myself, I chose sublingual dosing because it allows for MUCH more consistent dosing and allows multi-dosing of thyroid hormone without having to juggle the timing involved with calcium and iron dosing messing up thyroid dosing...

We can get into this more later, once the testing has been completed to determine what's going on with your thyroid.

Topper ()

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 04:22:02 -0000 "" writes:

I am in the process of learning about hypothyroid and treatments. Over the past year I have watched my TSH levels go up and this last set of labs that I had done put me at 5.09. I am a gastric bypass post-op of two years, I lost 110 pounds, have had a recent 10 pound regain, and have not had the expected improvment in my energy level since I lost all of my weight. In addition, my weight loss came to an early screeching halt and I assume that is associated to my TSH levels going above 3 earlier in 2005. I am still 50 pounds above my ideal weight and about 36 pounds above a normal BMI. As a gastric bypass post-op, my life is filled with challenges in getting in enough vitamins, minerals and protein. I am most aggressive in my program and test quite thoroughly every four months (12-15 vials worth), plus I track the trends of each lab so that I can head off any problems sooner rather than later. I have successfully raised my ferritin level from 13 to 66 and continue to work to bring it up some more. I have overcome a magnesium deficiency, a vitamin A deficiency, and am successfully bringing up my vitamin D levels as well. This next Tuesday I will be having my T3, selenium, and copper levels checked. After that lab is completed I will make another appointment with my PCP to discuss my options for treatment. He believes that my hypothyroid could "possibly" be the result of a large weight loss in 12 months time and that perhaps I "might" be able to jump start my thyroid with some short term medication. I have no idea if this will work. I will admit to being quite distressed and frightened about the prospect of having to start thyroid medication. In addition, as a gastric bypass patient I malabsorb so this means it will be hard to determine just how much medication I need to do the job. My lab has the TSH level set at 4.5 for the top end of the range and I understand that there is some conflict in the medical community about whether that is too high, with 3 being the ideal.Just as I have done with my gastric bypass (Roux en Y, 150 cm bypass), I research so that I can be well informed. I prefer talking to my doctor from a point of knowledge so that I can intelligently discuss options. I am remiss in the fact that I did not have the time and energy to research the TSH and hypothyroid sooner. My basic symptoms include primarily fatigue, easy burn out, and an increase in my allergies. I have fibromyalgia and have had it in an active state since about 1990, but it was dormant for the first year post-op. I have carpal tunnel in my left hand. I am a Type II Diabetic in remission. This is probably way too much information, but I felt that I need to provide a decent picture of what my status is so that I can get the best feedback. I am interested in understanding as much as I can about this new "intruder" into my life. SandyArizona

[Guest guest]

There are quite a few OTC thyroid stimulators, they contain questionable amounts of hormone and a lot of herbal type things.... I know of one OTC natural that does contain hormone and tableting agents, nothing else, I used it... but it's not as potent as the prescription grades.

Armour is the most common brand of the prescription grade porcine thyroid products... there are quite a few others.. the ones that pop into my brain this second are Time Cap Labs and Thyroid-S. Time Caps is manufactured in the US and Thyroid -S is from Thailand.

They all contain the same hormone, in the same amounts per grain...though some list 60 mg as a grain and others list 65 mg. The major difference between them is the fillers/tableting agents used in manufacture. Some respond better to some fillers and worse to others. The important thing to remember is to stay with one brand, and if you have to change to get retested in about six weeks to see how your body's absorption of the new brand is doing, you may need to increase or decrease your dose.

I'm still thinking it would be wise to determine the cause for the rise in TSH, if it's nutritional or if your weight stemmed from thyroid to begin with and it's just getting even worse now and causing more weight issues despite the surgery.

The symptoms that you've listed are all common among those with low thyroid hormone levels.... so it's good to be digging into this before it progresses further.

IMHO, of course.

Topper ()

On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 10:00:15 -0700 " and Steve" writes:

Topper - I would like to understand more about the natural thyroid hormone so that I will be able to talk to my doctor from a position of knowledge. Is this OTC or RX? Is there more than one kind? I have seen mention of Armour.

My pre-op TSH was 2.7 and this past April it was tested at 3.47, July 4.38, October 3.66, and December 5.09. So as you can see my trend is UP. Additional symptoms have included low sex drive to virtually NO drive this past year, occasional unexplained bouts with itchy spots that are resolved with an antihistimine, increase in my nasal allergy type symptoms, an increase in hair loss (not serious yet) and my hairdresser had told me to use a hair conditioner for the first time in my life this past year, and I burn out very easily (to the point that I do not like to commit to anything because I never know if I will feel good enough to do it).

Tuesday I will drop by my doctor's office and ask if he would add the Free T4, TSH, and thyroid antibodies to the current lab order (it already has selenium, copper, and Free T3). Do I need to do these labs fasting?

Sandy