Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

[Guest guest]

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

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[Guest guest]

I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace Officer with my commission held

by a local PD. I worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years so

understand that I have experience in both fields. As a Police Officer I am not

going to wait untill your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided to

issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife, ect. for a traffic violation

or any other misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you to get their

before I issue the citation. If you are operating your friends borrowed vehicle

and learn after getting stopped that their is no proof of insurance in the car

you will be the one to get the citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing

a citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing a promise to appear to

either take care of the citation or contest it. You have no choice about signing

the citation. You will be arrested if you refuse and later on if you contest and

win the case over the original citation you will

still be responsible for the failure to appear charge for refusing to sign the

ticket. Just to keep facts straight any Police Officer is completely within the

law and his job scope to inforce all laws including local city ordinances, state

laws and federal laws.

Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I have to speak up. I have

worked in Dallas,

and there is a permiting process for the service AND

the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit and

they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR they

will be cited. And the service will be repremanded as

well.It is a condition of employment that each person

SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without fail.

Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they were

informed during the hiring process of the permit

regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

well as the service should be cited as well. 2) Should

the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF US

THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

are employed by a City Police Department have the

ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

officer in question used sound judgement with regard

to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT BAYSTAR

WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

situation likely to occur

in other cities that have these type of codes? Patient

Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is THE

BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

--- salvador capuchino wrote:

> I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> individual permits go it is still the company's

> responsibility to ensure their employees and company

> have permits. The company is in violation by both

> standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> should issue a citation involving a violation of

> city

> ordinance to a medic. These issues should be taken

> up

> with the management. Thank god the officers here in

> the Valley have learned this. Most issues in regard

> to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if a

> medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> happens. I can understand being placed under arrest

> if I resist after being a dick, but not because I am

> requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps of

> our companies and should act accordingly.

> Salvador Capuchino

> EMT-P

>

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > wrote:

> > > issue of citing or fining should be between the

> > city

> > > and the owners of the business. Remember, don't

> > shoot

> > > the messenger.

> >

> > The medics are the on-scene representatives of the

> > company and from

> > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > individually required to

> > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> imagine

> > that the citation

> > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > that the company may

> > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > legal process - but

> > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic is

> a

> > representative of

> > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> an

> > appropriate

> > recipient of a citation for violation the

> ordinance.

> >

> > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > interruption of patient

> > care is an entirely separate issue. As an officer

> > and paramedic I

> > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > consider interrupting

> > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > ordinance violation

> > citation - that can all be handled after the fact

> > just as well...

> >

> > > This guy should have locked

> > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed to

> > be

> > > called.

> >

> > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> signed

> > the citation and

> > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > company attorney.

> > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > process of citation

> > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> INTERFERENCE

> > WITH PUBLIC

> > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established by

> > case law. It'd

> > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > citation, and

> > depending on the circumstances and the mood of the

> > officer, a

> > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > refusing to provide

> > identification as requested.

> >

> > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > that's excessive use of force.

> >

> > Really? How do you come to that conclusion? And

> > who's the victim for

> > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> law

> > citation that

> > would even set a level for excessive force against

> > property, rather

> > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > provide case law or

> > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > unreasonableness?

> > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> citation,

> > work with your

> > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And as

> > the esteemed Mr.

> > Gandy has stated several times, medics should have

> > their OWN attorney

> > - the company's attorney represents the company,

> not

> > the medic, and

> > will hang the medic out to dry to save the

> company.

> > Note: No

> > relation to the current case. I don't know

> BayStar,

> > and I don't know

> > the relation they have with their employees,

> > attorneys, etc. They may

> > very well stand by their employee's side to the

> end,

> > as I personally

> > think they should. There's just nothing that says

> > they HAVE to.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace Officer with my commission held

by a local PD. I worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years so

understand that I have experience in both fields. As a Police Officer I am not

going to wait untill your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided to

issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife, ect. for a traffic violation

or any other misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you to get their

before I issue the citation. If you are operating your friends borrowed vehicle

and learn after getting stopped that their is no proof of insurance in the car

you will be the one to get the citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing

a citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing a promise to appear to

either take care of the citation or contest it. You have no choice about signing

the citation. You will be arrested if you refuse and later on if you contest and

win the case over the original citation you will

still be responsible for the failure to appear charge for refusing to sign the

ticket. Just to keep facts straight any Police Officer is completely within the

law and his job scope to inforce all laws including local city ordinances, state

laws and federal laws.

Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I have to speak up. I have

worked in Dallas,

and there is a permiting process for the service AND

the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit and

they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR they

will be cited. And the service will be repremanded as

well.It is a condition of employment that each person

SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without fail.

Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they were

informed during the hiring process of the permit

regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

well as the service should be cited as well. 2) Should

the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF US

THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

are employed by a City Police Department have the

ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

officer in question used sound judgement with regard

to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT BAYSTAR

WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

situation likely to occur

in other cities that have these type of codes? Patient

Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is THE

BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

--- salvador capuchino wrote:

> I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> individual permits go it is still the company's

> responsibility to ensure their employees and company

> have permits. The company is in violation by both

> standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> should issue a citation involving a violation of

> city

> ordinance to a medic. These issues should be taken

> up

> with the management. Thank god the officers here in

> the Valley have learned this. Most issues in regard

> to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if a

> medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> happens. I can understand being placed under arrest

> if I resist after being a dick, but not because I am

> requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps of

> our companies and should act accordingly.

> Salvador Capuchino

> EMT-P

>

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > wrote:

> > > issue of citing or fining should be between the

> > city

> > > and the owners of the business. Remember, don't

> > shoot

> > > the messenger.

> >

> > The medics are the on-scene representatives of the

> > company and from

> > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > individually required to

> > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> imagine

> > that the citation

> > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > that the company may

> > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > legal process - but

> > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic is

> a

> > representative of

> > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> an

> > appropriate

> > recipient of a citation for violation the

> ordinance.

> >

> > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > interruption of patient

> > care is an entirely separate issue. As an officer

> > and paramedic I

> > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > consider interrupting

> > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > ordinance violation

> > citation - that can all be handled after the fact

> > just as well...

> >

> > > This guy should have locked

> > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed to

> > be

> > > called.

> >

> > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> signed

> > the citation and

> > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > company attorney.

> > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > process of citation

> > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> INTERFERENCE

> > WITH PUBLIC

> > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established by

> > case law. It'd

> > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > citation, and

> > depending on the circumstances and the mood of the

> > officer, a

> > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > refusing to provide

> > identification as requested.

> >

> > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > that's excessive use of force.

> >

> > Really? How do you come to that conclusion? And

> > who's the victim for

> > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> law

> > citation that

> > would even set a level for excessive force against

> > property, rather

> > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > provide case law or

> > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > unreasonableness?

> > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> citation,

> > work with your

> > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And as

> > the esteemed Mr.

> > Gandy has stated several times, medics should have

> > their OWN attorney

> > - the company's attorney represents the company,

> not

> > the medic, and

> > will hang the medic out to dry to save the

> company.

> > Note: No

> > relation to the current case. I don't know

> BayStar,

> > and I don't know

> > the relation they have with their employees,

> > attorneys, etc. They may

> > very well stand by their employee's side to the

> end,

> > as I personally

> > think they should. There's just nothing that says

> > they HAVE to.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Wes,

The new ACLS guidelines work really well...survival from dead and over is way up

now...

Dudley

Re: Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Wes,

The new ACLS guidelines work really well...survival from dead and over is way up

now...

Dudley

Re: Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

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[Guest guest]

Wes,

The new ACLS guidelines work really well...survival from dead and over is way up

now...

Dudley

Re: Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

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[Guest guest]

>

> I thought a while back, someone designated this thread

> as dead and over?

Ah, but learned counselor makes the assumption that the fools engaged

in the discussion have enough sense to let an such an obviously

obviously off topic and fruitless discussion drop. Those that continue

the thread obviously don't posess enough sense to figure that out.

Larry

[Guest guest]

I was not their and am not defending anyone and the only reason I responded was

there seems to be a Bash the Police going on. No I do not have to wait for my

supervisor to arrive to perform a Police action just because someone makes the

request and am not sure where you got that ideal. Maybe some departments operate

that way but I did not work for a department like that. I am familiar with the

penal code and the bottom line is the medic should have signed the ticket then

contested it in court if he disagreed then he could have went on his way and had

his day in court. I have seen many text on this site that stated that they would

not sign the ticket either and might have resisted also. This is nothing but bad

advice and you will end up in bigger trouble when it is all said and done.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

I was not their and am not defending anyone and the only reason I responded was

there seems to be a Bash the Police going on. No I do not have to wait for my

supervisor to arrive to perform a Police action just because someone makes the

request and am not sure where you got that ideal. Maybe some departments operate

that way but I did not work for a department like that. I am familiar with the

penal code and the bottom line is the medic should have signed the ticket then

contested it in court if he disagreed then he could have went on his way and had

his day in court. I have seen many text on this site that stated that they would

not sign the ticket either and might have resisted also. This is nothing but bad

advice and you will end up in bigger trouble when it is all said and done.

ExLngHrn@... wrote:

I thought a while back, someone designated this thread as dead and over?

In a message dated 1/22/2006 1:10:52 PM Central Standard Time,

scapuchino@... writes:

If you show up to court after being arrested for

refusing to sign, how can you be charged with failure

to appear again on the same charge, DOUBLE JEOPARDY,

NO??? Someone needs to go back and study the Penal

Code again. Anyway, what you are refering to in the

matter of waiting for parents or spouses is totally

different and stupid to assume it plays out the same

as the situation at hand. I understand what you all

are saying as far as violation of city ordinance, but

there is such a thing as common courtesy. And YES I

understand and know what courtesy means. Like I said

if the medic was a dick and rude towards the peace

officer, then he was wrong. However if he wasn't and

asked for the officer to await the arrival of a

supervisor, then it is only courteous to do so. Now

if I were to ask for your police supervisor to get on

scene before proceeding further, then you have to

wait. And I understand if I am rude or get violent,

then you will do what you have to to restrain me. But

you still have to await the arrival of a supervisor to

resolve the prior issue. BTW, here in the valley

there is a city that takes your picture too, if you

refuse the picture, they are going to arrest you.

Sounds lie invasion of privacy. Or another tool for

the media to embarass people. Anyway, alot of

companies do not let their medics do or say anything

unless a supervisor is on-scene. So are you going to

arrest a medic because of this too? You as an officer

are out of service and are not back in service till

you are done with the call.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- ben thacker wrote:

> I am a NREMT-P (rookie) and am a Certified Peace

> Officer with my commission held by a local PD. I

> worked full time as a Police Officer for seven years

> so understand that I have experience in both fields.

> As a Police Officer I am not going to wait untill

> your supervisor gets to the scene if I have decided

> to issue you a citation. If I stop your child, wife,

> ect. for a traffic violation or any other

> misdameanor violation I am not going to wait for you

> to get their before I issue the citation. If you are

> operating your friends borrowed vehicle and learn

> after getting stopped that their is no proof of

> insurance in the car you will be the one to get the

> citation not the owner of the vehicle. By signing a

> citation you are not admitting guilt but or signing

> a promise to appear to either take care of the

> citation or contest it. You have no choice about

> signing the citation. You will be arrested if you

> refuse and later on if you contest and win the case

> over the original citation you will

> still be responsible for the failure to appear

> charge for refusing to sign the ticket. Just to keep

> facts straight any Police Officer is completely

> within the law and his job scope to inforce all laws

> including local city ordinances, state laws and

> federal laws.

>

> Wayne Edgin wrote: OK now I

> have to speak up. I have worked in Dallas,

> and there is a permiting process for the service AND

> the crews. Now,if the crew is not carring a permit

> and

> they are stopped by a LEO or a CITY DOT INSPECTOR

> they

> will be cited. And the service will be repremanded

> as

> well.It is a condition of employment that each

> person

> SHALL apply for a City Of Dallas permit without

> fail.

> Now,1) Should the medics have been cited? If they

> were

> informed during the hiring process of the permit

> regs,and they did not obtain the permit,then yes. As

> well as the service should be cited as well. 2)

> Should

> the medic have been placed in custody? WERE ANY OF

> US

> THERE? DID ANY OF US SEE THE INCIDENT TAKE PLACE? If

> you did then speak up. I know I did not,so I do not

> know if or how the incident transpired.All LEOs whom

> are employed by a City Police Department have the

> ability to cite for ANY city ordnance violation at

> his/her own will. In this case,I am not sure the the

> officer in question used sound judgement with regard

> to Patient Condition and care. But again I was not

> there. This issue will be played out in the media,in

> court,AND in the court of public opinion. The thing

> that must be addressed is DID THE PATIENT THAT

> BAYSTAR

> WAS CALLED FOR,INCUR ANY TYPE OF UNDUE

> HARM DUE TO THE SITUATION THAT OCCURED LESS THAN A

> BLOCK FROM THE INCIDENT LOCATION? And is this

> situation likely to occur

> in other cities that have these type of codes?

> Patient

> Care is the formost situation at hand,not whom is

> THE

> BIGGEST DOG ON THE STREET.

>

> --- salvador capuchino wrote:

>

> > I understand what you are saying. As far as even

> > individual permits go it is still the company's

> > responsibility to ensure their employees and

> company

> > have permits. The company is in violation by both

> > standards. All I am saying is that the no officer

> > should issue a citation involving a violation of

> > city

> > ordinance to a medic. These issues should be

> taken

> > up

> > with the management. Thank god the officers here

> in

> > the Valley have learned this. Most issues in

> regard

> > to city ordinaces rest with the FDs. Of course if

> a

> > medic is being an ass then he deserves whatever

> > happens. I can understand being placed under

> arrest

> > if I resist after being a dick, but not because I

> am

> > requesting for the officer to await the arrival of

> > my/their supervisor. All in all, yes we are reps

> of

> > our companies and should act accordingly.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > On 1/20/06, salvador capuchino

> > > wrote:

> > > > issue of citing or fining should be between

> the

> > > city

> > > > and the owners of the business. Remember,

> don't

> > > shoot

> > > > the messenger.

> > >

> > > The medics are the on-scene representatives of

> the

> > > company and from

> > > what I understand from the city ordinance are

> > > individually required to

> > > be permitted as well as the company, so I'd

> > imagine

> > > that the citation

> > > was probably an individual citation for VCO, and

> > > that the company may

> > > have/may be getting a citation by mail or other

> > > legal process - but

> > > that's just speculation. Either way, the medic

> is

> > a

> > > representative of

> > > the company at the time of the infraction and is

> > an

> > > appropriate

> > > recipient of a citation for violation the

> > ordinance.

> > >

> > > Now the appropriateness of doing to at the

> > > interruption of patient

> > > care is an entirely separate issue. As an

> officer

> > > and paramedic I

> > > can't think of a single situation in which I'd

> > > consider interrupting

> > > patient care to investigate and issue a city

> > > ordinance violation

> > > citation - that can all be handled after the

> fact

> > > just as well...

> > >

> > > > This guy should have locked

> > > > himself in the unit and called whoever needed

> to

> > > be

> > > > called.

> > >

> > > No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have

> > signed

> > > the citation and

> > > called his supervisor immediately, who calls the

> > > company attorney.

> > > Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal

> > > process of citation

> > > would get him a charge for PC § 38.15:

> > INTERFERENCE

> > > WITH PUBLIC

> > > DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established

> by

> > > case law. It'd

> > > likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the

> > > citation, and

> > > depending on the circumstances and the mood of

> the

> > > officer, a

> > > charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was

> > > refusing to provide

> > > identification as requested.

> > >

> > > > If the police break windows or anything then

> > > > that's excessive use of force.

> > >

> > > Really? How do you come to that conclusion?

> And

> > > who's the victim for

> > > excessive use of force? Can you provide a case

> > law

> > > citation that

> > > would even set a level for excessive force

> against

> > > property, rather

> > > than against the person themselves? And can you

> > > provide case law or

> > > reasonable arguement that supports your claim of

> > > unreasonableness?

> > > The reasonable thing to do is to sign the

> > citation,

> > > work with your

> > > supervisors and fight the claim in court. And

> as

> > > the esteemed Mr.

> > > Gandy has stated several times, medics should

> have

> > > their OWN attorney

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

And some don't possess enough sense to come up with a

new and interesting topic.

--- " L. H. Pacchioni " wrote:

>

> >

> > I thought a while back, someone designated this

> thread

> > as dead and over?

>

> Ah, but learned counselor makes the assumption that

> the fools engaged

> in the discussion have enough sense to let an such

> an obviously

> obviously off topic and fruitless discussion drop.

> Those that continue

> the thread obviously don't posess enough sense to

> figure that out.

>

> Larry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

And some don't possess enough sense to come up with a

new and interesting topic.

--- " L. H. Pacchioni " wrote:

>

> >

> > I thought a while back, someone designated this

> thread

> > as dead and over?

>

> Ah, but learned counselor makes the assumption that

> the fools engaged

> in the discussion have enough sense to let an such

> an obviously

> obviously off topic and fruitless discussion drop.

> Those that continue

> the thread obviously don't posess enough sense to

> figure that out.

>

> Larry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

And some don't possess enough sense to come up with a

new and interesting topic.

--- " L. H. Pacchioni " wrote:

>

> >

> > I thought a while back, someone designated this

> thread

> > as dead and over?

>

> Ah, but learned counselor makes the assumption that

> the fools engaged

> in the discussion have enough sense to let an such

> an obviously

> obviously off topic and fruitless discussion drop.

> Those that continue

> the thread obviously don't posess enough sense to

> figure that out.

>

> Larry

>

>

>

>

>

>

>