Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

January 20, 2006

What I mean by that is that I would have demanded that

the officer await the arrival of my supervisor and at

the same time I would have demanded that the officer's

supervisor respond as well. Those medics were no

threat to the officer's life or anyone around them.

The arrest was uncalled for. If I had to lock myself

inside the unit and call 911 to speak to the PD/media,

I would have done it. I believe the officer

overstepped his boundries. I believe their ordinance

states that the service will be ticketed/fined, etc.,

not the medics. I know of one officer here in the RGV

who was fired after he arrested a medic on similiar

charges. Fortunately the media has alot of pull. The

officer in this case refused to allow the medics to

see the patients even though there was no other EMS

on-scene. He also refused to sign a refusal. The 911

provider for the area was responding from another city

and took a while to show up. Then again the county

gives them 20 minutes to show up. Bottom line the

officer was fired and the city lost the civil lawsuit.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- Mike wrote:

> Sal - With regards to your statement " I would of

> resisted too " I

> refer you to section ( below.

>

> PENAL CODE § 38.03. RESISTING ARREST, SEARCH, OR

> TRANSPORTATION.

>

> (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally

> prevents or

> obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a

> person acting in a

> peace officer's presence and at his direction from

> effecting an

> arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or

> another by using

> force against the peace officer or another.

>

> ( It is no defense to prosecution under this

> section that the

> arrest or search was unlawful.

>

> Mike

>

> On 1/19/06, salvador capuchino

> wrote:

> > Everything would have been good if they would have

> > ticketed the company, not the medics. La Prte

> should

> > know that the medics really have no say so. We

> cannot

> > legally refuse a call. And since when do medics

> > assist PD with takedowns? I have always believed

> that

> > these issues are between the head honchos, not the

> > medics. I would of resisted too. PD could have

> > waited for a supervisor to arrive. Baystar should

> > file a complaint with TCLEOSE too. Maybe even the

> AG.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- bearamedic99 wrote:

> >

> > > Sorry if this got posted already but if it did,

> I

> > > missed it.

> > >

> >

>

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3589357.html

> > >

> > > Paramedics' fracas being investigated

> > > Officials trying to determine what led to the

> arrest

> > > of a Bay Star

> > > worker

> > > By CINDY HORSWELL

> > >

> > > A La Porte homemaker feels caught in the middle

> of

> > > an escalating

> > > battle between two ambulance services that she

> says

> > > were both trying

> > > to help her ailing 84-year-old father.

> > >

> > > The fight has prompted two investigations: one

> by

> > > the state into

> > > whether emergency services were delayed to the

> man

> > > and another into

> > > the circumstances that landed a paramedic from

> one

> > > of the services in

> > > jail.

> > >

> > > Now authorities are trying to sort out how two

> > > ambulance crews, who

> > > are usually the good guys riding to the rescue,

> > > became the ones in

> > > trouble.

> > >

> > > " I am so sorry this all happened. Both were only

> > > trying to help my

> > > father. I am shocked, " said Zwiercan, who

> > > telephoned for an

> > > ambulance on Dec. 28. Her father, King Hager,

> who

> > > was transported

> > > from Zwiercan's home on Eagle Fork Court to the

> > > hospital, is still

> > > undergoing treatment there for fluid in his

> lungs,

> > > dehydration and

> > > kidney problems.

> > >

> > > " We don't want to see EMS people fighting

> between

> > > each other, "

> > > County Assistant District Attorney Wood

> said

> > > of the squabble

> > > between La Porte's ambulance service and Bay

> Star, a

> > > private service

> > > based in Baytown. " We are reviewing the police

> > > reports and talking to

> > > witnesses to see where things went awry. "

> > >

> > > Wood is prosecutor for the resisting-arrest

> charge

> > > filed against Bay

> > > Star's paramedic, Jung, who spent one

> night

> > > in jail. Jung bit

> > > the finger of a La Porte paramedic who assisted

> in

> > > the arrest, said

> > > Ray Nolan, who heads La Porte's EMS.

> > >

> > > But in a written statement, Jung accuses the La

> > > Porte paramedic,

> > > Peugeot, and the arresting police officer

> of

> > > being the ones who

> > > were abusive. Jung, 21, who will be a pre-med

> > > student at the

> > > University of St. in the fall, stated the

> > > unidentified officer

> > > slammed his head into the curb three times after

> he

> > > was handcuffed.

> > >

> > > How it started

> > > Two Bay Star medics were also ticketed by La

> Porte

> > > for failing to

> > > comply with a new ordinance requiring them to

> have a

> > > permit to

> > > operate in the city.

> > >

> > > According to Zwiercan and Nolan, the squabble

> > > started after Zwiercan

> > > telephoned La Porte EMS for an ambulance after

> > > congestion in her

> > > father's chest worsened.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher told her that the city

> does

> > > not handle non-

> > > emergency transports and gave her a list of

> private

> > > ambulance

> > > services from which to chose.

> > >

> > > Zwiercan picked Bay Star, which she said

> promised to

> > > have an

> > > ambulance there in about 20 minutes.

> > >

> > > While Zwiercan said she had not considered her

> > > father's case an

> > > emergency, Bay Star upgraded the run to an

> > > " emergency " because the

> > > patient was having difficulty breathing. La

> Porte

> > > dispatch then gave

> > > Bay Star a " verbal OK " to " run hot " with sirens

> and

> > > lights.

> > >

> > > Following protocol, the La Porte dispatcher

> informed

> > > La Porte's

> > > paramedic supervisor, Peugeot, about Bay Star's

> > > emergency run.

> > >

> > > This news concerned Peugeot because he knew Bay

> Star

> > > had never

> > > applied for an operating permit as required by

> the

> > > city's new

> > > ordinance, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > New ordinance

> > > Under the new ordinance, private ambulances are

> > > ordered to handle

> > > only non-emergency transports and must transfer

> any

> > > emergency cases

> > > to La Porte to assure that the highest grade of

> > > equipment and trained

> > > personnel are used, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher, who had recently

> returned

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

January 20, 2006

> What I mean by that is that I would have demanded that

> the officer await the arrival of my supervisor and at

> the same time I would have demanded that the officer's

> supervisor respond as well. [...] If I had to lock myself

> inside the unit and call 911 to speak to the PD/media,

> I would have done it.

At this point, from my perspective when working as a police officer,

you can take a time-out in the back of my police car to wait for all

the supervisors to show up. My job is to control the scene, and if

you're going to be irrational then I'll provide you a well-defined

space in which to be irrational, and I'll provide the proper

restraints to ensure that you don't violate those boundaries.

Easier? Just sign the damn citation. It's not an admission of guilt,

it's a promise to appear (and contest the charge if you wish). Not

signing the citation pretty much guarantees an arrest, commonly

referred to as an instanter, meaning that I'm arresting you to take

you " instantly " before a magistrate who will inform you of your

charges and secure a promise to appear in court. " Instantly "

generally means the next morning...

The police officer has a job to do, and he's probably as frustrated

about it as you are - especially with a violation of city ordinance

call. The citation is an end to the call, and it gets everyone out of

the situation gracefully and allows the parties to decide whether or

not to pursue the issue further (the city consults the city attorney

prosecuting the case and compares the facts against the ordinance, you

get to consult an attorney and do the same thing).

Mike :/

January 20, 2006

My parents instilled in me that when you act like a jerk in in public and you

are repeatedly told to calm down, you get what you deserve. There are a lot of

hot headed medics out there and I have worked with many .........Mike, your

comments were well said. I will be glad when this case is finalized and we can

all got back to being positive role models .................

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

January 20, 2006

My parents instilled in me that when you act like a jerk in in public and you

are repeatedly told to calm down, you get what you deserve. There are a lot of

hot headed medics out there and I have worked with many .........Mike, your

comments were well said. I will be glad when this case is finalized and we can

all got back to being positive role models .................

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

January 20, 2006

Uhh… WRONG!

Baystar is NOT the 911 provider for the ‘area’. They are a commercial firm

based and operated from Baytown. Baytown Health Department EMS is the 911

provider for Baytown and the area immediately surrounding Baytown. All

other cities in the immediate area around Baytown/LaPorte have Third Service

or Fire Based EMS except Pasadena, who contracts with ETMC.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of salvador capuchino

Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:55 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

“The 911

provider for the area was responding from another city

and took a while to show up.”

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- Mike wrote:

> Sal - With regards to your statement " I would of

> resisted too " I

> refer you to section ( below.

>

> PENAL CODE § 38.03. RESISTING ARREST, SEARCH, OR

> TRANSPORTATION.

>

> (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally

> prevents or

> obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a

> person acting in a

> peace officer's presence and at his direction from

> effecting an

> arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or

> another by using

> force against the peace officer or another.

>

> ( It is no defense to prosecution under this

> section that the

> arrest or search was unlawful.

>

> Mike

>

> On 1/19/06, salvador capuchino

> wrote:

> > Everything would have been good if they would have

> > ticketed the company, not the medics. La Prte

> should

> > know that the medics really have no say so. We

> cannot

> > legally refuse a call. And since when do medics

> > assist PD with takedowns? I have always believed

> that

> > these issues are between the head honchos, not the

> > medics. I would of resisted too. PD could have

> > waited for a supervisor to arrive. Baystar should

> > file a complaint with TCLEOSE too. Maybe even the

> AG.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- bearamedic99 wrote:

> >

> > > Sorry if this got posted already but if it did,

> I

> > > missed it.

> > >

> >

>

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3589357.html

> > >

> > > Paramedics' fracas being investigated

> > > Officials trying to determine what led to the

> arrest

> > > of a Bay Star

> > > worker

> > > By CINDY HORSWELL

> > >

> > > A La Porte homemaker feels caught in the middle

> of

> > > an escalating

> > > battle between two ambulance services that she

> says

> > > were both trying

> > > to help her ailing 84-year-old father.

> > >

> > > The fight has prompted two investigations: one

> by

> > > the state into

> > > whether emergency services were delayed to the

> man

> > > and another into

> > > the circumstances that landed a paramedic from

> one

> > > of the services in

> > > jail.

> > >

> > > Now authorities are trying to sort out how two

> > > ambulance crews, who

> > > are usually the good guys riding to the rescue,

> > > became the ones in

> > > trouble.

> > >

> > > " I am so sorry this all happened. Both were only

> > > trying to help my

> > > father. I am shocked, " said Zwiercan, who

> > > telephoned for an

> > > ambulance on Dec. 28. Her father, King Hager,

> who

> > > was transported

> > > from Zwiercan's home on Eagle Fork Court to the

> > > hospital, is still

> > > undergoing treatment there for fluid in his

> lungs,

> > > dehydration and

> > > kidney problems.

> > >

> > > " We don't want to see EMS people fighting

> between

> > > each other, "

> > > County Assistant District Attorney Wood

> said

> > > of the squabble

> > > between La Porte's ambulance service and Bay

> Star, a

> > > private service

> > > based in Baytown. " We are reviewing the police

> > > reports and talking to

> > > witnesses to see where things went awry. "

> > >

> > > Wood is prosecutor for the resisting-arrest

> charge

> > > filed against Bay

> > > Star's paramedic, Jung, who spent one

> night

> > > in jail. Jung bit

> > > the finger of a La Porte paramedic who assisted

> in

> > > the arrest, said

> > > Ray Nolan, who heads La Porte's EMS.

> > >

> > > But in a written statement, Jung accuses the La

> > > Porte paramedic,

> > > Peugeot, and the arresting police officer

> of

> > > being the ones who

> > > were abusive. Jung, 21, who will be a pre-med

> > > student at the

> > > University of St. in the fall, stated the

> > > unidentified officer

> > > slammed his head into the curb three times after

> he

> > > was handcuffed.

> > >

> > > How it started

> > > Two Bay Star medics were also ticketed by La

> Porte

> > > for failing to

> > > comply with a new ordinance requiring them to

> have a

> > > permit to

> > > operate in the city.

> > >

> > > According to Zwiercan and Nolan, the squabble

> > > started after Zwiercan

> > > telephoned La Porte EMS for an ambulance after

> > > congestion in her

> > > father's chest worsened.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher told her that the city

> does

> > > not handle non-

> > > emergency transports and gave her a list of

> private

> > > ambulance

> > > services from which to chose.

> > >

> > > Zwiercan picked Bay Star, which she said

> promised to

> > > have an

> > > ambulance there in about 20 minutes.

> > >

> > > While Zwiercan said she had not considered her

> > > father's case an

> > > emergency, Bay Star upgraded the run to an

> > > " emergency " because the

> > > patient was having difficulty breathing. La

> Porte

> > > dispatch then gave

> > > Bay Star a " verbal OK " to " run hot " with sirens

> and

> > > lights.

> > >

> > > Following protocol, the La Porte dispatcher

> informed

> > > La Porte's

> > > paramedic supervisor, Peugeot, about Bay Star's

> > > emergency run.

> > >

> > > This news concerned Peugeot because he knew Bay

> Star

> > > had never

> > > applied for an operating permit as required by

> the

> > > city's new

> > > ordinance, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > New ordinance

> > > Under the new ordinance, private ambulances are

> > > ordered to handle

> > > only non-emergency transports and must transfer

> any

> > > emergency cases

> > > to La Porte to assure that the highest grade of

> > > equipment and trained

> > > personnel are used, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher, who had recently

> returned

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

January 20, 2006

Uhh… WRONG!

Baystar is NOT the 911 provider for the ‘area’. They are a commercial firm

based and operated from Baytown. Baytown Health Department EMS is the 911

provider for Baytown and the area immediately surrounding Baytown. All

other cities in the immediate area around Baytown/LaPorte have Third Service

or Fire Based EMS except Pasadena, who contracts with ETMC.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of salvador capuchino

Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:55 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

“The 911

provider for the area was responding from another city

and took a while to show up.”

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- Mike wrote:

> Sal - With regards to your statement " I would of

> resisted too " I

> refer you to section ( below.

>

> PENAL CODE § 38.03. RESISTING ARREST, SEARCH, OR

> TRANSPORTATION.

>

> (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally

> prevents or

> obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a

> person acting in a

> peace officer's presence and at his direction from

> effecting an

> arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or

> another by using

> force against the peace officer or another.

>

> ( It is no defense to prosecution under this

> section that the

> arrest or search was unlawful.

>

> Mike

>

> On 1/19/06, salvador capuchino

> wrote:

> > Everything would have been good if they would have

> > ticketed the company, not the medics. La Prte

> should

> > know that the medics really have no say so. We

> cannot

> > legally refuse a call. And since when do medics

> > assist PD with takedowns? I have always believed

> that

> > these issues are between the head honchos, not the

> > medics. I would of resisted too. PD could have

> > waited for a supervisor to arrive. Baystar should

> > file a complaint with TCLEOSE too. Maybe even the

> AG.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- bearamedic99 wrote:

> >

> > > Sorry if this got posted already but if it did,

> I

> > > missed it.

> > >

> >

>

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3589357.html

> > >

> > > Paramedics' fracas being investigated

> > > Officials trying to determine what led to the

> arrest

> > > of a Bay Star

> > > worker

> > > By CINDY HORSWELL

> > >

> > > A La Porte homemaker feels caught in the middle

> of

> > > an escalating

> > > battle between two ambulance services that she

> says

> > > were both trying

> > > to help her ailing 84-year-old father.

> > >

> > > The fight has prompted two investigations: one

> by

> > > the state into

> > > whether emergency services were delayed to the

> man

> > > and another into

> > > the circumstances that landed a paramedic from

> one

> > > of the services in

> > > jail.

> > >

> > > Now authorities are trying to sort out how two

> > > ambulance crews, who

> > > are usually the good guys riding to the rescue,

> > > became the ones in

> > > trouble.

> > >

> > > " I am so sorry this all happened. Both were only

> > > trying to help my

> > > father. I am shocked, " said Zwiercan, who

> > > telephoned for an

> > > ambulance on Dec. 28. Her father, King Hager,

> who

> > > was transported

> > > from Zwiercan's home on Eagle Fork Court to the

> > > hospital, is still

> > > undergoing treatment there for fluid in his

> lungs,

> > > dehydration and

> > > kidney problems.

> > >

> > > " We don't want to see EMS people fighting

> between

> > > each other, "

> > > County Assistant District Attorney Wood

> said

> > > of the squabble

> > > between La Porte's ambulance service and Bay

> Star, a

> > > private service

> > > based in Baytown. " We are reviewing the police

> > > reports and talking to

> > > witnesses to see where things went awry. "

> > >

> > > Wood is prosecutor for the resisting-arrest

> charge

> > > filed against Bay

> > > Star's paramedic, Jung, who spent one

> night

> > > in jail. Jung bit

> > > the finger of a La Porte paramedic who assisted

> in

> > > the arrest, said

> > > Ray Nolan, who heads La Porte's EMS.

> > >

> > > But in a written statement, Jung accuses the La

> > > Porte paramedic,

> > > Peugeot, and the arresting police officer

> of

> > > being the ones who

> > > were abusive. Jung, 21, who will be a pre-med

> > > student at the

> > > University of St. in the fall, stated the

> > > unidentified officer

> > > slammed his head into the curb three times after

> he

> > > was handcuffed.

> > >

> > > How it started

> > > Two Bay Star medics were also ticketed by La

> Porte

> > > for failing to

> > > comply with a new ordinance requiring them to

> have a

> > > permit to

> > > operate in the city.

> > >

> > > According to Zwiercan and Nolan, the squabble

> > > started after Zwiercan

> > > telephoned La Porte EMS for an ambulance after

> > > congestion in her

> > > father's chest worsened.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher told her that the city

> does

> > > not handle non-

> > > emergency transports and gave her a list of

> private

> > > ambulance

> > > services from which to chose.

> > >

> > > Zwiercan picked Bay Star, which she said

> promised to

> > > have an

> > > ambulance there in about 20 minutes.

> > >

> > > While Zwiercan said she had not considered her

> > > father's case an

> > > emergency, Bay Star upgraded the run to an

> > > " emergency " because the

> > > patient was having difficulty breathing. La

> Porte

> > > dispatch then gave

> > > Bay Star a " verbal OK " to " run hot " with sirens

> and

> > > lights.

> > >

> > > Following protocol, the La Porte dispatcher

> informed

> > > La Porte's

> > > paramedic supervisor, Peugeot, about Bay Star's

> > > emergency run.

> > >

> > > This news concerned Peugeot because he knew Bay

> Star

> > > had never

> > > applied for an operating permit as required by

> the

> > > city's new

> > > ordinance, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > New ordinance

> > > Under the new ordinance, private ambulances are

> > > ordered to handle

> > > only non-emergency transports and must transfer

> any

> > > emergency cases

> > > to La Porte to assure that the highest grade of

> > > equipment and trained

> > > personnel are used, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher, who had recently

> returned

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

January 20, 2006

Uhh… WRONG!

Baystar is NOT the 911 provider for the ‘area’. They are a commercial firm

based and operated from Baytown. Baytown Health Department EMS is the 911

provider for Baytown and the area immediately surrounding Baytown. All

other cities in the immediate area around Baytown/LaPorte have Third Service

or Fire Based EMS except Pasadena, who contracts with ETMC.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of salvador capuchino

Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:55 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Resisting arrest, [was Re: Follow Up to ....]

“The 911

provider for the area was responding from another city

and took a while to show up.”

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- Mike wrote:

> Sal - With regards to your statement " I would of

> resisted too " I

> refer you to section ( below.

>

> PENAL CODE § 38.03. RESISTING ARREST, SEARCH, OR

> TRANSPORTATION.

>

> (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally

> prevents or

> obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a

> person acting in a

> peace officer's presence and at his direction from

> effecting an

> arrest, search, or transportation of the actor or

> another by using

> force against the peace officer or another.

>

> ( It is no defense to prosecution under this

> section that the

> arrest or search was unlawful.

>

> Mike

>

> On 1/19/06, salvador capuchino

> wrote:

> > Everything would have been good if they would have

> > ticketed the company, not the medics. La Prte

> should

> > know that the medics really have no say so. We

> cannot

> > legally refuse a call. And since when do medics

> > assist PD with takedowns? I have always believed

> that

> > these issues are between the head honchos, not the

> > medics. I would of resisted too. PD could have

> > waited for a supervisor to arrive. Baystar should

> > file a complaint with TCLEOSE too. Maybe even the

> AG.

> > Salvador Capuchino

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- bearamedic99 wrote:

> >

> > > Sorry if this got posted already but if it did,

> I

> > > missed it.

> > >

> >

>

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3589357.html

> > >

> > > Paramedics' fracas being investigated

> > > Officials trying to determine what led to the

> arrest

> > > of a Bay Star

> > > worker

> > > By CINDY HORSWELL

> > >

> > > A La Porte homemaker feels caught in the middle

> of

> > > an escalating

> > > battle between two ambulance services that she

> says

> > > were both trying

> > > to help her ailing 84-year-old father.

> > >

> > > The fight has prompted two investigations: one

> by

> > > the state into

> > > whether emergency services were delayed to the

> man

> > > and another into

> > > the circumstances that landed a paramedic from

> one

> > > of the services in

> > > jail.

> > >

> > > Now authorities are trying to sort out how two

> > > ambulance crews, who

> > > are usually the good guys riding to the rescue,

> > > became the ones in

> > > trouble.

> > >

> > > " I am so sorry this all happened. Both were only

> > > trying to help my

> > > father. I am shocked, " said Zwiercan, who

> > > telephoned for an

> > > ambulance on Dec. 28. Her father, King Hager,

> who

> > > was transported

> > > from Zwiercan's home on Eagle Fork Court to the

> > > hospital, is still

> > > undergoing treatment there for fluid in his

> lungs,

> > > dehydration and

> > > kidney problems.

> > >

> > > " We don't want to see EMS people fighting

> between

> > > each other, "

> > > County Assistant District Attorney Wood

> said

> > > of the squabble

> > > between La Porte's ambulance service and Bay

> Star, a

> > > private service

> > > based in Baytown. " We are reviewing the police

> > > reports and talking to

> > > witnesses to see where things went awry. "

> > >

> > > Wood is prosecutor for the resisting-arrest

> charge

> > > filed against Bay

> > > Star's paramedic, Jung, who spent one

> night

> > > in jail. Jung bit

> > > the finger of a La Porte paramedic who assisted

> in

> > > the arrest, said

> > > Ray Nolan, who heads La Porte's EMS.

> > >

> > > But in a written statement, Jung accuses the La

> > > Porte paramedic,

> > > Peugeot, and the arresting police officer

> of

> > > being the ones who

> > > were abusive. Jung, 21, who will be a pre-med

> > > student at the

> > > University of St. in the fall, stated the

> > > unidentified officer

> > > slammed his head into the curb three times after

> he

> > > was handcuffed.

> > >

> > > How it started

> > > Two Bay Star medics were also ticketed by La

> Porte

> > > for failing to

> > > comply with a new ordinance requiring them to

> have a

> > > permit to

> > > operate in the city.

> > >

> > > According to Zwiercan and Nolan, the squabble

> > > started after Zwiercan

> > > telephoned La Porte EMS for an ambulance after

> > > congestion in her

> > > father's chest worsened.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher told her that the city

> does

> > > not handle non-

> > > emergency transports and gave her a list of

> private

> > > ambulance

> > > services from which to chose.

> > >

> > > Zwiercan picked Bay Star, which she said

> promised to

> > > have an

> > > ambulance there in about 20 minutes.

> > >

> > > While Zwiercan said she had not considered her

> > > father's case an

> > > emergency, Bay Star upgraded the run to an

> > > " emergency " because the

> > > patient was having difficulty breathing. La

> Porte

> > > dispatch then gave

> > > Bay Star a " verbal OK " to " run hot " with sirens

> and

> > > lights.

> > >

> > > Following protocol, the La Porte dispatcher

> informed

> > > La Porte's

> > > paramedic supervisor, Peugeot, about Bay Star's

> > > emergency run.

> > >

> > > This news concerned Peugeot because he knew Bay

> Star

> > > had never

> > > applied for an operating permit as required by

> the

> > > city's new

> > > ordinance, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > New ordinance

> > > Under the new ordinance, private ambulances are

> > > ordered to handle

> > > only non-emergency transports and must transfer

> any

> > > emergency cases

> > > to La Porte to assure that the highest grade of

> > > equipment and trained

> > > personnel are used, Nolan said.

> > >

> > > The La Porte dispatcher, who had recently

> returned

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

January 20, 2006

The only problem I have here is that the medics did

nothing wrong in responding. They did as told. The

issue of citing or fining should be between the city

and the owners of the business. Remember, don't shoot

the messenger. As for the hot headed medic, well

maybe he did get what he deserved, if he initiated the

problem. If I am not mistaken, this is the guy who

responded in his POV. Why did he respond? Maybe if

he would not have gone things would have had a

different outcome? This guy should have locked

himself in the unit and called whoever needed to be

called. If the police break windows or anything then

that's excessive use of force. And I am not saying

this is right, but it buys time to get on the phone

and call the right people.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- Joe B wrote:

> My parents instilled in me that when you act like a

> jerk in in public and you are repeatedly told to

> calm down, you get what you deserve. There are a

> lot of hot headed medics out there and I have worked

> with many .........Mike, your comments were well

> said. I will be glad when this case is finalized and

> we can all got back to being positive role models

> .................

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo!

> Autos

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

January 20, 2006

The only problem I have here is that the medics did

nothing wrong in responding. They did as told. The

issue of citing or fining should be between the city

and the owners of the business. Remember, don't shoot

the messenger. As for the hot headed medic, well

maybe he did get what he deserved, if he initiated the

problem. If I am not mistaken, this is the guy who

responded in his POV. Why did he respond? Maybe if

he would not have gone things would have had a

different outcome? This guy should have locked

himself in the unit and called whoever needed to be

called. If the police break windows or anything then

that's excessive use of force. And I am not saying

this is right, but it buys time to get on the phone

and call the right people.

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- Joe B wrote:

> My parents instilled in me that when you act like a

> jerk in in public and you are repeatedly told to

> calm down, you get what you deserve. There are a

> lot of hot headed medics out there and I have worked

> with many .........Mike, your comments were well

> said. I will be glad when this case is finalized and

> we can all got back to being positive role models

> .................

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo!

> Autos

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

January 21, 2006

> issue of citing or fining should be between the city

> and the owners of the business. Remember, don't shoot

> the messenger.

The medics are the on-scene representatives of the company and from

what I understand from the city ordinance are individually required to

be permitted as well as the company, so I'd imagine that the citation

was probably an individual citation for VCO, and that the company may

have/may be getting a citation by mail or other legal process - but

that's just speculation. Either way, the medic is a representative of

the company at the time of the infraction and is an appropriate

recipient of a citation for violation the ordinance.

Now the appropriateness of doing to at the interruption of patient

care is an entirely separate issue. As an officer and paramedic I

can't think of a single situation in which I'd consider interrupting

patient care to investigate and issue a city ordinance violation

citation - that can all be handled after the fact just as well...

> This guy should have locked

> himself in the unit and called whoever needed to be

> called.

No, that's plain stupid. The guy should have signed the citation and

called his supervisor immediately, who calls the company attorney.

Locking himself in the unit to delay the legal process of citation

would get him a charge for PC § 38.15: INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC

DUTIES, a Class B Misdemeanor well established by case law. It'd

likely also guarantee an instanter arrest on the citation, and

depending on the circumstances and the mood of the officer, a

charge/citation for FAIL TO ID as well if he was refusing to provide

identification as requested.

> If the police break windows or anything then

> that's excessive use of force.

Really? How do you come to that conclusion? And who's the victim for

excessive use of force? Can you provide a case law citation that

would even set a level for excessive force against property, rather

than against the person themselves? And can you provide case law or

reasonable arguement that supports your claim of unreasonableness?

The reasonable thing to do is to sign the citation, work with your

supervisors and fight the claim in court. And as the esteemed Mr.

Gandy has stated several times, medics should have their OWN attorney

- the company's attorney represents the company, not the medic, and

will hang the medic out to dry to save the company. Note: No

relation to the current case. I don't know BayStar, and I don't know

the relation they have with their employees, attorneys, etc. They may

very well stand by their employee's side to the end, as I personally

think they should. There's just nothing that says they HAVE to.

Mike

January 21, 2006