Possibility of Combining Minocycline with Metronidazole

[Guest guest]

Dear group,

In an email dated 7/16/01, I pointed to a web page

at http://www.garynull.com/Documents/Arthritis/Antiamoebic_treatment.htm,

which describes a protocol that uses antiamoebic (or anti-ameba) medicines

to treat rheumatic diseases. The similarities were striking between

between the anti-micoplasma (AP) prototocol by McPherson Brown,

which is based on tetracycline-class antibiotics, and the anti-amoeba

protocol by the Wyburn-Mason and Jack M. Blount, which is based on

metronidazole and similar anti-amoeba medications. I then asked the

following questions to the group:

1. Has anyone studied the anti-ameba protocol or been on it? What has been

the update since 1986? (Cooky's detailed experience follows this message.)

2. Does minocycline have anti-amoebic properties?

3. Does Metronidazole have anti-micoplasma properties?

4. If minocycline and Metronidazole are both effective but address

different classes of microorganisms, could these medications not be

combined? What should dosages be so as not to cause over-medication or a

super Herxheimer reaction?

Since that time, I have done further research on the net in an attempt to

find some of the answers.

The web page " Alternative Treatments for Rheumatoid Arthritis "

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/arth4-6.html by Alan R. Gaby, MD,

is a paper which appeared in Altern Med Rev 1999;4(6):392-402. It is very

much worth reading, going into details about nutrition, diet and herbal

remedies. It is the only paper that I have found to date which discusses

the two antibiotic therapies side by side. It devotes four short paragraphs

to the metronidazole therapy and one paragraph to the monocycline therapy.

It is interesting to note that the author does not mention any other

antibiotic therapies -- which could well exist.

What is minocycline (brand name Minocin)? It is a member of the

tetracycline class of antibiotics. Tetracycline, approved by the FDA in

1953, is a broad-spectrum antibiotic prepared from the cultures of certain

streptomyces species. The web page

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/tetcycl.htm lists the following

applications: acne vulgaris; actinomycosis; amebiasis, adjunct; anthrax;

conjunctivitis, infectious; gonorrhea; granuloma inguinale; infection of

lower respiratory tract; infection of upper respiratory tract; infection of

urinary tract; lymphogranuloma venereum; ophthalmia neonatorum; ornithosis;

pneumonia; psittacosis; Q fever; relapsing fever; rickettsialpox; Rocky

Mountain spotted fever; syphilis; tick fever; trachoma; typhus; 's

infection; and yaws. Minocycline is a semisynthetic derivative of

tetracycline with superior ability to penetrate tissues.

What is metronidazole (brand name Flagyl)? It is a member of the

nitroimidazole class of antibiotics. Approved by the FDA in 1963,

metronidazole is a synthetic antibacterial and antiprotozoal agent that is

effective therapy against protozoa such as trichomonas vaginalis,

amebiasis, and giardiasis. In addition, it is one of the most effective

drugs available against anaerobic bacterial infections. Metronidazole is

also useful in treating Crohn's disease, antibiotic-associated diarrhea,

and rosacea. The web page

http://www.cai.mcgill.ca/MedEd/DrugDB/metronidazole/metronidazole_db.htm

describes the following mechanism of action:

" Metronidazole is amebicidal, bactericidal, and trichomonicidal. Unionized

metronidazole is readily taken up by anaerobic organisms and cells. Its

selectivity for anaerobic bacteria is a result of the ability of these

organisms to reduce metronidazole to its active form intracellularly. The

electron transport proteins necessary for this reaction are found only in

anaerobic bacteria. Reduced metronidazole then disrupts DNA's helical

structure, thereby inhibiting bacterial nucleic acid synthesis. This

eventually results in bacterial cell death. Metronidazole is equally

effective against dividing and nondividing cells.

Because of its mechanism of action, low molecular weight, and limited

binding to serum proteins, metronidazole is a highly lethal antimicrobial.

Resistance to metronidazole is almost nonexistent. Metronidazole's spectrum

of activity includes protozoa and obligate anaerobes including: Bacteroides

group (including B. fragilis), Fusobacterium, Veillonella, the Clostridium

group (including C. difficile and C. perfringens), Eubacterium,

Peptococcus, and Peptostreptococcus. It is effective against B. fragilis

isolates that are resistant to clindamycin. It is not effective against the

common aerobes but is active against the aerobe Gardnerella (Haemophilus)

vaginalis. The protozoan coverage of metronidazole includes Entamoeba

histolytica, Giardia lamblia, and Trichomonas vaginalis.

Metronidazole also has immunosuppressive and antiinflammatory actions, and

it has been used in patients with rosacea. The antimicrobial actions of

metronidazole alter the bacterial metabolism of bile acids in the GI tract,

decreasing pruritus in patients with cholestasis secondary to primary

biliary cirrhosis. "

It appears that tetracycline and metronidazole are both very potent drugs

and that they are effective against some of the same conditions, such as

infections, but that they also each have unique antibiotic capabilities.

Both have been found to be effective in treating RA and certain other

rheumatoid diseases.

I did a www.google.com search to look for pages where tetracycline and

metronidazole are used side by side. I found three, but there may be

others. The web page http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1e4606.htm describes a new

drug, Helicide by Axcan Pharma Inc. , for the eradication of Helicobacter

pylori, which causes gastric and duodenal ulcers in as many as 10 percent

of people in the United States at some time in their lives. Helicide is a

capsule containing colloidal bismuth subcitrate (40 mg), metronidazole (125

mg) and tetracycline (125 mg). The combination of bismuth subsalicylate,

metronidazole and tetracycline to eradicate Helicobacter pylori is also

discussed in

http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/bismuthmetronidazoletetrac

ycline.html and http://www.medinfo.ufl.edu/cme/grounds/toskes/slide8.html.

While ulcers and rheumatoid diseases may be unrelated, it is interesting to

note that metronidazole and tetracycline are in fact being combined to

increase the range of action of either drug alone.

Sincerely, Harald

On 7/16/01, Kathy at " Lake grove oil " <akmeyer@...> wrote:

" Flagyl is also used for lyme disease in many cases. The amounts are

higher. Lyme is nearly identical to syphilis (also a spirochete) and in the

60s (I believe) doctors used flagyl (metrodinazol) to treat

syphlis. Basically, I believe in both flagyl and doxy and feel there are

roles for each in our diseases. We do not know exactly causative factors

for these immune

disorders, what we have found is that many of the suspected organisms are

cell wall deficient (mycoplasms, spirochetes, amoeba) and antiamoebics may

target those well.

In the case of lyme, the organism can morph into different types of forms

(cystic, nymph, cell wall deficient ... this is my understanding.) What

that might mean is that pulsing different drugs at different times might be

beneficial. Also, in the case of Lyme, the bacteria replicates very slowly

(every 28 days I believe) and a pulsing regime couple of times a week may

be sufficient....

Our family uses doxy mwf for the most part. On full moons and half moons

(approx 28 days) we try to take flagyl 10mg/lbs with meals two days in a

row. (There is some evidence the bacteria divides with moon cycles). My

husband likes flagyl and says his arthritis clears with flagyl (but then

sometimes he says it clears with doxy). Basically we use both and

interchange. I'm not advocating this regime, I feel there is a role in

picking what works best for you a staying with that. Deja.com / sci.med

/disease/ lyme is a great source to pick people brains about flagyl and the

benefits vs. detriment. "

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[Guest guest]

karen I am very interested in " guai " is that short for guaiacum (which is a

herb actually a bark from a tree that naturalpaths use in tincture form.)

It was used in the 1700s I believe to treat syphilis....which is interesting

because I have RA/lyme disease and the lyme bacteria is nearly identical to

syphilis. (sounds a bit crazy). But if it is a form of guaiacum I would

very much like to try it.

kathy in oregon

ra since 1998 (also three tick borne infecitions: lyme disease,

erhlichiosis, and babesiosis; and one mosqueto-borne parasite infection

called filariasis)

Re: rheumatic Possibility of Combining Minocycline with

Metronidazole

> Harald,

> Thank you for this information! I find it a very interesting concept. H.

> pylori is so successfully treated now with the combination of antibiotics.

> At first this was scoffed at by the medical community, now it's accepted

> treatment.

> In your searching, did you find anything about studies being done on the

> combination of antibiotics for rhuematoid diseases?

> I encourage you to continue enlightening us on what you find!

> M. FM, RA Minocin 100 mg 3 d/wk, guai 1200 mg daily

>

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