Re: TODs ... quite long email

[Guest guest]

,

Sorry for the delay in getting to answer you, but life just keeps getting in

my way. Also, I'm going to take the liberty of sending you an email offlist.

I'm going to forward an old one I'd written about the NY 4th grade

requirements. And from what a friend of mine in Iowa had to say, it was pretty

close to

theirs as well. Also, I'm very biased on the topic of TODs versus SpecEd. In my

opinion (and everyone here should feel free to disagree with me and give their

opinions) the two are very different.

<<They went from 1.5 hours per day with an HI to 90 minutes per week with an

HI and then added 1 hour per day with special ed resources....They want the

special ed. people in the building to be the 'case manager'. >>

This is the part of your note that sent off bells in my brain because at the

same age, our district did a similar thing and it was a disaster. My son did

not need it in order to address learning disabilities but it was foisted on us.

I could make the arguement that his processing speed delay and short-term

memory issues are learning disabilities, but that's a whole other argument and

those apparently do not fall into the cataegories of " learning disability. " Our

son did not need classic remediation or traditional special ed services.

So my first question/comment is about special ed. Does your child need it?

Has Maggie been identified as having learning disabilities or is the school

simply trying to replace a TOD with their in-school staff SpecEd person? From

your note it seems like a' switcheroo " as my dad use to call it, so I'll

continue

on as though that's the case.

Let me add that if Maggie does need SpecEd services, then you should try and

get a better balance of the two kinds of services. Not just the Spec Ed doing

everything and the TOD coming in for the ocassional visit. I don't want to

suggest that anyone not get SpecEd services for their child. If a kid needs it,

then he/she should get it. It's just our experience that the districts often

don't understand the difference between SpecEd and a TOD.

Our TOD is an itinerent teacher provided through NY State's BOCES network, a

county-based state-run auxiliary resource for the school districts. Since

there are so few D/HOH kids in the district, they do not have anything like it

as

a staff position. Our TOD was never fit into the classroom in elementary

school, so I am not sure what to suggest about getting your TOD into the

calssroom

or how that could work. It was handled as a pull-out for 1 hour at the end of

each day. Any less time is, IMHO, too little time to accomplish anything.

A TOD is not a luxury item for an HOH kid. It is a necessity. Changing your

daughter's serivces and possibly allowing her to fail because they " think " a

SpecEd teacher can address her needs can be very harmful to the child and is an

unnecessary game to play.

In many ways the TOD services seem very similar to SpecEd, but the difference

is the motivation behind the instruction. It stems from the hearing loss, not

learning disabilities. The TOD goal is to help the D/HOH student access the

education, not provide remediation to catch up, or an adaptation to simpify the

curriculum. Part of what our TOD did was to teach our son coping skills for

learning in a relatively unadapted environment -- He is completely

mainstereamed. The only sound accomodation was tennis balls on the chair legs

and the

teacher did that for his own benefit, not our son's. Ian had to learn how to

ACCESS HIS EDUCATION, much of which is happening orally all around him. The

SpecEd

teacher could never do that because they are NOT TRAINED to understand a D/HOH

child's needs.

IN fourth grade, the kids' skills become more specialized and everything gets

even harder. Vocabulary/spelling goes from simple sight words to

multi-syllable ones that do not follow basic rules. Idioms are studied. Our

son's class

had one a week and they had to write little essays on the meanings. He had a

terrible time with them because he had grasped the concrete meanings of words

but

using words more creatively left him confused. Colloquial language use is now

appearing in their classwork and books, and that is tough for all kids. But

that is langauge use which is learned orally not from reading. If you consider

a D/HOH kid's language aquisition challenges, it makes things even harder.

Over the years our son's TOD teacher has worked on study skills, reasoning

strategies, coping skills, language aquisition strategies, vocabulary, writing

/editing skills, outlining and note-taking skills, organizing his own schedule

and work flow ... as well as reinforcing curriculum content. TODs base their

instruction on the child's individual needs and their weaknesses. The things a

TOD would do with your child will vary from what ours needed and received. Our

TOD is informed of the lesson plans and did quite a bit of pre-teaching when

they first started working together. (Ian has needed this less and less as

he's gotten older.) They found strategies for studying that work for Ian, but

don't for her other HOH kids.

In 3rd grade, my kids started to deal with document-based lessons and note

taking. That means taking what is read and answering questions about the

contents of the " document " -- and a great deal of that is done orally. The

teacher

read aloud once and the kids listened, then it's read again while the kids take

notes. Then the kids answer a series of questions using their notes and their

memories. They never get to see the document. A tough task for any kid. Now

try doing it when you have to see the teacher's lips in order to understand what

is being read aloud. Taking notes becomes a herculean task. Learning to

recognize key elements is hard for that age in general -- that's what they're

learning to do. Now trying doing it when you're not even sure you " heard " it

right

and you can't read the notes you wrote when you were afraid to look down for

fear of missing an important point.

A TOD teaches skills to cope, or teaches the teacher how to adapt the

instruction so that the HOH kid can accomplish the tasks. For Ian, the solution

to

that tortuous situation was as simple as pausing between sentences to give him a

chance to write some notes -- something the teacher never thought to do.

(sigh)

And now to make this note even longer, I'm going to go through your list line

by line.

<< a.. the current level of success with the current level and provision of

services>>

This should not be a reason to reduce or alter services. The child has a

physical disability and therefore needs specialized services to assure her

ACCESS

to the educational happening around her. Her success is based on proper and

appropriate services, removing or changing those services because they are

successful is not valid reasoning.

<< b.. the new goals and areas of need are similar to last year - therefore

new service provider is not necessary>>

I did not see that you requested anything new. The continuation of the TOD

services seems appropriate based on the success she has had so far..

<<c.. HI provides unique qualifications in training/education to service a

child with a hearing impairment that special ed does not

d.. special ed is often remedial - rather than preteaching of vocab/content

outline

e.. HI works one on one as necessary w/ student - special ed would probably

work in small group of children with various disabilities/needs.>>

All of these are arguments to use FOR conitunation of TOD services, not

against it. Were these your arguments for continuing TOD services?

<< f.. we were not informed throughout the year that things were going so

well that it might be helpful to change service providers - no documentation of

need for change - and especially so drastic a change>>

Success with a TOD/HI is NOT a reason for changing to SpecEd services. It

only reinforces the fact that the services were apporpriate and working as

planned.

<< g.. 4th grade will offer more teachers for our child to work with on a

daily basis as the students change classes for math and spelling....more HI time

might be needed to share expertise >>

I'm not understanding this. Are you saying you asked for more TOD/HI time

based on increased classwork? HI people are trained to deal with the basic

curriculm and to help the child learn how to " access their education. " In a

mainstream setting the TOD is not intended to replace the classroom teacher in

teaching core curriculum. If extra help is needed to cover the core classwork,

then

that is considered rememdiation and would probably come from a SpecEd teacher.

In a D/HOH classroom setting, the core teacher is often a TOD as well as being

certified as a regular classroom teacher.

If what you meant was that the school is saying they'll make time for a Spec

Ed teacher for an hour a day but they find using the same amount of time for a

TOD to be too much ... well, if that is what is meant then it sounds like BS

and double-talk to me.

<< h.. 4th grade curriculum offers greater need for vocab/content preview as

it is a big step forward in independent work activities and higher levels of

comprehension especially in Soc. St. and Science....>>

Yes, this is true and, IMHO, much of that would fall under the heading of

language aquisition as well as vocabulary building, things a TOD/HI understands

and a SpecEd teacher would treat as a remedial issue. The rest would fall into

ways of assuring that your daughter the ability to " access " the education

happening around her so she can pick up on the details. Pre-teaching works well

and every TOD I've spoken with has used it.

Our son's TOD was supposed to receive the vocabulary ahead of time so that he

could start learning it before the words were used in class. Pre-teaching.

The classroom teacher considered this to be " babying " him and often refused

( " forgot " was the excuse she used) to provide the proper things to the TOD. We

explained repeatedly that it was not " laziness " (her word) that blocked Ian from

understanding the new words, but her penchant for pacing the room and talking

to the board. We ended up bringing formal charges against her for intentially

undermining his IEP. Anyway, pre-teaching was later done and it worked

beautifully. Once he was a bit older and the FM was being used appropriately,

there

was less and less need for the pre-teaching.

I've said this before and my bias is very obvious, but I credit our son's TOD

with making it possible for him to continue on as a mainstreamed student. And

just to repeat myself, TODs are not a luxury for these mainstreamed kids,

they are a necessity. Most times the TOD is the only person in the school who

has a clue what challenges my son faces, and the only one who has any idea how

to help him succeed.

Anyway -- I've now rambled on for far too long. If anyone is still reading, I

congratulate you!

Now I must go help clean my daughter's room. The stuffed animal popluation

has gotten out of control and if I don't force some choices she may become the

headline for a local newspaper: " Young Girl Found Buried Alive Under Stuffed

Animals, Beanie Baby Attack Thought to Be Responsible "

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

Hello, thanks for all that information. I really needed to hear that

especially since my daughter will be facing 4th grade next year. Two quick

questions

-- what is a TOD? My daughter is totally mainstreamed and goes to an

Itinerant teacher 5 days a week 2 times a day for 45 min. She also has an HI

teacher

that comes is 3 times a week to give her in class support. She helps her catch

up with class assignments that she could do and supports her in class while

the teacher is teaching. Next year the Itinerant teachers are coming into the

class instead of her going to smaller environment. I do not know how well this

will work?

My other question is about the tennis balls. How does that help and HI

child in class?

[Guest guest]

Hello, thanks for all that information. I really needed to hear that

especially since my daughter will be facing 4th grade next year. Two quick

questions

-- what is a TOD? My daughter is totally mainstreamed and goes to an

Itinerant teacher 5 days a week 2 times a day for 45 min. She also has an HI

teacher

that comes is 3 times a week to give her in class support. She helps her catch

up with class assignments that she could do and supports her in class while

the teacher is teaching. Next year the Itinerant teachers are coming into the

class instead of her going to smaller environment. I do not know how well this

will work?

My other question is about the tennis balls. How does that help and HI

child in class?

[Guest guest]

Hello, thanks for all that information. I really needed to hear that

especially since my daughter will be facing 4th grade next year. Two quick

questions

-- what is a TOD? My daughter is totally mainstreamed and goes to an

Itinerant teacher 5 days a week 2 times a day for 45 min. She also has an HI

teacher

that comes is 3 times a week to give her in class support. She helps her catch

up with class assignments that she could do and supports her in class while

the teacher is teaching. Next year the Itinerant teachers are coming into the

class instead of her going to smaller environment. I do not know how well this

will work?

My other question is about the tennis balls. How does that help and HI

child in class?

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Could you email me the same thing? Thanks so much, Tish

>

Also, I'm going to take the liberty of sending you an email offlist.

> I'm going to forward an old one I'd written about the NY 4th grade

> requirements. And from what a friend of mine in Iowa had to say, it was

pretty close to

> theirs as well.

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Could you email me the same thing? Thanks so much, Tish

>

Also, I'm going to take the liberty of sending you an email offlist.

> I'm going to forward an old one I'd written about the NY 4th grade

> requirements. And from what a friend of mine in Iowa had to say, it was

pretty close to

> theirs as well.

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Could you email me the same thing? Thanks so much, Tish

>

Also, I'm going to take the liberty of sending you an email offlist.

> I'm going to forward an old one I'd written about the NY 4th grade

> requirements. And from what a friend of mine in Iowa had to say, it was

pretty close to

> theirs as well.

[Guest guest]

What is someone here worried about the " No Child Left Behind " ruling?? It

looks like someone is trying to pass the buck and doesn't want to be

responsible/accountable for their student.

I totally agree with your previous post, Jill. It is insane for any TOD

to discredit her own degree and say a child would be better off in a

resource room setting. If that is so, why would anyone waste their time

getting a degree in teaching the deaf if the deaf child wouldn't benefit

more from someone specialized in teaching the deaf. Tish

.. Also, I'm very biased on the topic of TODs versus SpecEd. In my

> opinion (and everyone here should feel free to disagree with me and give

their

> opinions) the two are very different.

[Guest guest]

What is someone here worried about the " No Child Left Behind " ruling?? It

looks like someone is trying to pass the buck and doesn't want to be

responsible/accountable for their student.

I totally agree with your previous post, Jill. It is insane for any TOD

to discredit her own degree and say a child would be better off in a

resource room setting. If that is so, why would anyone waste their time

getting a degree in teaching the deaf if the deaf child wouldn't benefit

more from someone specialized in teaching the deaf. Tish

.. Also, I'm very biased on the topic of TODs versus SpecEd. In my

> opinion (and everyone here should feel free to disagree with me and give

their

> opinions) the two are very different.

[Guest guest]

What is someone here worried about the " No Child Left Behind " ruling?? It

looks like someone is trying to pass the buck and doesn't want to be

responsible/accountable for their student.

I totally agree with your previous post, Jill. It is insane for any TOD

to discredit her own degree and say a child would be better off in a

resource room setting. If that is so, why would anyone waste their time

getting a degree in teaching the deaf if the deaf child wouldn't benefit

more from someone specialized in teaching the deaf. Tish

.. Also, I'm very biased on the topic of TODs versus SpecEd. In my

> opinion (and everyone here should feel free to disagree with me and give

their

> opinions) the two are very different.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/6/2004 9:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

lavhome@... writes:

I totally agree with your previous post, Jill. It is insane for any TOD

to discredit her own degree and say a child would be better off in a

resource room setting. If that is so, why would anyone waste their time

getting a degree in teaching the deaf if the deaf child wouldn't benefit

more from someone specialized in teaching the deaf. Tish

Tish ... I basically agree with you post, but I would add a word of caution

.... some kids do need BOTH a SpecEd teachers and a TOD. If the need is there

and a school is willing to give both services, then parents should be thrilled

and run with it.

From the experiences with our son's TOD, she could easily handle any remedial

issues as capably as the SpecEd teachers we've known. However, not a single

SpecEd teacher had a clue how to approproately work with our HOH son.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/6/2004 9:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

lavhome@... writes:

I totally agree with your previous post, Jill. It is insane for any TOD

to discredit her own degree and say a child would be better off in a

resource room setting. If that is so, why would anyone waste their time

getting a degree in teaching the deaf if the deaf child wouldn't benefit

more from someone specialized in teaching the deaf. Tish

Tish ... I basically agree with you post, but I would add a word of caution

.... some kids do need BOTH a SpecEd teachers and a TOD. If the need is there

and a school is willing to give both services, then parents should be thrilled

and run with it.

From the experiences with our son's TOD, she could easily handle any remedial

issues as capably as the SpecEd teachers we've known. However, not a single

SpecEd teacher had a clue how to approproately work with our HOH son.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/6/2004 9:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

lavhome@... writes:

I totally agree with your previous post, Jill. It is insane for any TOD

to discredit her own degree and say a child would be better off in a

resource room setting. If that is so, why would anyone waste their time

getting a degree in teaching the deaf if the deaf child wouldn't benefit

more from someone specialized in teaching the deaf. Tish

Tish ... I basically agree with you post, but I would add a word of caution

.... some kids do need BOTH a SpecEd teachers and a TOD. If the need is there

and a school is willing to give both services, then parents should be thrilled

and run with it.

From the experiences with our son's TOD, she could easily handle any remedial

issues as capably as the SpecEd teachers we've known. However, not a single

SpecEd teacher had a clue how to approproately work with our HOH son.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/5/2004 10:44:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Mickeyand@... writes:

<<Two quick questions -- what is a TOD? My daughter is totally mainstreamed

and goes to an Itinerant teacher 5 days a week 2 times a day for 45 min. She

also has an HI teacher that comes is 3 times a week to give her in class

support. She helps her catch up with class assignments that she could do and

supports

her in class while the teacher is teaching. Next year the Itinerant teachers

are coming into the

class instead of her going to smaller environment. I do not know how well

this

will work?>>

TOD = Teacher of the deaf. On the official paperwork she is referred to as

HIRS (Hearing Impaired Related Services). So I assume that an HI teacher is the

same thing, just another name for the same job. Different states will use

different names for the jobs and have different requirements for teacher

certification. Here in NY the teachers must have a Master's degree or be

constantly

taking classes to keep their certification current. Schools also encourage the

teachers to take classes and attend conferences to stay currrent in their

subject areas.

Ian's TOD is an itinerent teacher. She works directly for a state-run

county-based auxiliary resource organization called BOCES (Board of ative

Educational Serices). BOCES resources are available to the local districts to

make

available services that a school could not easily afford. For instance, our

BOCES has a division for serving D/HOH children in Dutchess county. I believe

our BOCES has about 6 TODs working throughout our area. Our TOD sees 3-4 kids

each day, each in a different school and/or district. She travels between the

schools every day.

Ian's TOD was never incuded into the classroom. Whne he was in elementary

school, the teachers refused to allow it (!!) because they felt it disturbed the

rest of the class. It turns out that the pull-out was the better choice and

it worked well for Ian. However, I know that current educational philosophy is

against pull-outs, with the intention to incorporate things into the classroom

activities. I can understand the goal in that thinking, but our experience is

that the one-on-one time with the TOD was the most beneficial. Perhaps if the

teacher had more D/HOH kids and the program intentionally designed to include

those kids ... but our son is one-of-a-kind for this school and they were

actively not trying to help him, so the pull out at the end of the day worked

best.

<

[Guest guest]

Tish,

I don't think the TOD is the one trying to make the change. No TOD I know

would do that, especially for a child who is doing so well with the services. It

sounds to me as though the district is trying to make the switch in order to

reduce their costs. Around here TODs are usually itinerent teachers or outside

consultants. If the district could use the staff SpecEd people, they'd save

money. After all, they're already paying that salary. If they simply put the

D/HOH kid into the SpecEd program, there is no additional cost aside from

perhaps

an extra workbook or two. Plus they get to apply for additional aide. It

sounds like a bottom-line concern, not one that has anything to do with the

welfare of the child.

-- Jill

[Guest guest]

I agree 100%. Our daughter has both TOD services and Spec. ed. services.

But, if I had to choose one most important service, it would be the TOD.

That is not saying they both aren't equally important, but the TOD is

trained in deaf issues.

I still maintain if a TOD is trying to turn all programs over to a Spec.

Ed. teacher, there is a rat in the corncrib somewhere. Tish