Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 - Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without having low glucose levels. W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to calculate a 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 - Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without having low glucose levels. W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to calculate a 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 - Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without having low glucose levels. W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to calculate a 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, you have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe going to 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting his system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need to be there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may have the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally would not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck on figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. Kathy - joel's mom Hi everyone, My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a g/j tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 hours a day. On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He tolerated the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched because KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but his blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while on KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He remains alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag and then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One thing I have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our dietician did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his ratio from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you think I should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the vomiting stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? The ranging blood sugar? Thanks for your help, ’ Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, cp, and the best smile in the world! ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 It sounds like he's too ketotic. If you can't get the formula reworked down to 3.25:1 til monday then if you have some of the ketocal I would think mixing the two fifty fifty would come out at 3.25:1. Since you have siezure control it sounds like his ketones have definately come up, maybe just a little too much. Anybody else see any reason why she should mix the two if she has enough ketocal to make it through the weekend til she can talk to her team? Congratulations on control, wow! Liz > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ' Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 It sounds like he's too ketotic. If you can't get the formula reworked down to 3.25:1 til monday then if you have some of the ketocal I would think mixing the two fifty fifty would come out at 3.25:1. Since you have siezure control it sounds like his ketones have definately come up, maybe just a little too much. Anybody else see any reason why she should mix the two if she has enough ketocal to make it through the weekend til she can talk to her team? Congratulations on control, wow! Liz > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ' Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 It sounds like he's too ketotic. If you can't get the formula reworked down to 3.25:1 til monday then if you have some of the ketocal I would think mixing the two fifty fifty would come out at 3.25:1. Since you have siezure control it sounds like his ketones have definately come up, maybe just a little too much. Anybody else see any reason why she should mix the two if she has enough ketocal to make it through the weekend til she can talk to her team? Congratulations on control, wow! Liz > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ' Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 It sounds like he's too ketotic. If you can't get the formula reworked down to 3.25:1 til monday then if you have some of the ketocal I would think mixing the two fifty fifty would come out at 3.25:1. Since you have siezure control it sounds like his ketones have definately come up, maybe just a little too much. Anybody else see any reason why she should mix the two if she has enough ketocal to make it through the weekend til she can talk to her team? Congratulations on control, wow! Liz > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ' Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'm thinking that would be good until you can talk to the dietitian on Monday. This would bring your ratio to around 3.25:1. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm thinking that 72 isn't all that low on the diet. I was thinking that around 55 was getting too low (but DON'T quote me, I'm not sure) Anybody? Blood sugar and ketosis are not exact opposites. The body HAS to have glucose for energy, therefore the body will work to maintain a certain level in the blood. But the good news is that the brain will use ketones for energy when there is a shortage of glucose (and shortage of carbs in the diet). This is a defense mechanism to keep the brain going during times of starvation. You probably know all this, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Low blood sugar CAN cause vomiting, and so can being too ketotic. Sometimes (but not all the time) these two can coincide. Someone wrote about a soy intolerance..... something to think about. But I would think the seizure control wouldn't be there if the body was " rejecting " something (but stranger things have happened). And don't mean to ask a dumb question, but you are mixing the RCF with polycose and microlipids, right? Kathy On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:32:44 -0500 " Jim Eckberg " writes: > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the > past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to > switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on > him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is > 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, > you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe > going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting > his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need > to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may > have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally > would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck > on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a > g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He > tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched > because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but > his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while > on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He > remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag > and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One > thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our > dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his > ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you > think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the > vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? > The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ’ Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, > cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'm thinking that would be good until you can talk to the dietitian on Monday. This would bring your ratio to around 3.25:1. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm thinking that 72 isn't all that low on the diet. I was thinking that around 55 was getting too low (but DON'T quote me, I'm not sure) Anybody? Blood sugar and ketosis are not exact opposites. The body HAS to have glucose for energy, therefore the body will work to maintain a certain level in the blood. But the good news is that the brain will use ketones for energy when there is a shortage of glucose (and shortage of carbs in the diet). This is a defense mechanism to keep the brain going during times of starvation. You probably know all this, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Low blood sugar CAN cause vomiting, and so can being too ketotic. Sometimes (but not all the time) these two can coincide. Someone wrote about a soy intolerance..... something to think about. But I would think the seizure control wouldn't be there if the body was " rejecting " something (but stranger things have happened). And don't mean to ask a dumb question, but you are mixing the RCF with polycose and microlipids, right? Kathy On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:32:44 -0500 " Jim Eckberg " writes: > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the > past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to > switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on > him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is > 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, > you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe > going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting > his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need > to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may > have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally > would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck > on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a > g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He > tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched > because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but > his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while > on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He > remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag > and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One > thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our > dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his > ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you > think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the > vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? > The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ’ Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, > cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'm thinking that would be good until you can talk to the dietitian on Monday. This would bring your ratio to around 3.25:1. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm thinking that 72 isn't all that low on the diet. I was thinking that around 55 was getting too low (but DON'T quote me, I'm not sure) Anybody? Blood sugar and ketosis are not exact opposites. The body HAS to have glucose for energy, therefore the body will work to maintain a certain level in the blood. But the good news is that the brain will use ketones for energy when there is a shortage of glucose (and shortage of carbs in the diet). This is a defense mechanism to keep the brain going during times of starvation. You probably know all this, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. Low blood sugar CAN cause vomiting, and so can being too ketotic. Sometimes (but not all the time) these two can coincide. Someone wrote about a soy intolerance..... something to think about. But I would think the seizure control wouldn't be there if the body was " rejecting " something (but stranger things have happened). And don't mean to ask a dumb question, but you are mixing the RCF with polycose and microlipids, right? Kathy On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:32:44 -0500 " Jim Eckberg " writes: > Thanks Kathy, > I called the neuro on call because vomited again (twice in the > past > 6 hours). His idea (and he's not part of the keto team) was to > switch > back to half KetoCal and half RCF. I think that would be hard on > him, > for one thing the KetoCal ratio they gave me is 3:1 and the RCF is > 3.5:1. > Does low blood sugar always coincide with being too ketotic? His is > 72 > right now. > Thanks for your help, > ' > > > Re: switching formulas > > > ' - Sounds like a classic case of being too ketotic. Yet, > you > have the seizure control. I would ask my dietitian about maybe > going to > 3.25:1. A jump from 3:1 to 3.5:1 is a BIG jump & it may be hitting > his > system hard. Yet, since you have the seizure control, he may need > to be > there. But you must control the vomiting, and who knows?, you may > have > the seizure control without the vomiting at 3.25:1. I personally > would > not go back down to 3:1 right now, as you didn't have the seizure > control there (even though it was a different formula). Good luck > on > figuring it out & congrats on the seizure control. > Kathy - joel's mom > > Hi everyone, > My son started the diet on 3-9-04 and has been extremely more > alert and playing with toys which he never did before. He has a > g/j > tube, all feeds go in the j port and is on a slow continous feed 18 > hours a day. > On Wednesday we started a slow switch from KetoCal to RCF. He > tolerated > the KetoCal fine, seizures were better but not gone; we switched > because > KetoCal is not available. His ketones remain large on the RCF, but > his > blood sugar ranges from 65-98 (it always remained high 85-100 while > on > KetoCal). I have not seen any seizures since Wed.!! Yeah! He > remains > alert and interactive, but yesterday he vomited twice, seemed to gag > and > then throw up. He went on full strength RCF as of last night and > vomited again this morning. After vomiting he is back to himself, > smiling, etc. I do not believe it is a virus or the flu. One > thing I > have learned from all of you is to do one thing at a time; our > dietician > did not do this. When switching over to the RCF she raised his > ratio > from 3:1 to 3.5:1 because he was still having seizures. Do you > think I > should switch him back to 3:1 or wait it out and see if the > vomiting > stops? What do you think is causing the vomiting? The switch? > The > ranging blood sugar? > Thanks for your help, > ’ Mom to 5 ½ years old, Lissencephaly, reflux, seizures, > cp, > and the best smile in the world! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > > " The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a > last > resort! " > > List is for parent to parent support only. > It is important to get medical advice from a > professional keto team! > Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe > Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 - If you know 's protein intake and total daily calorie intake, you can set the Stanford Program for a 3.25:1 ratio and play w/the three ingredients til you " zero out " protein, carbs and fat grams. Holler if you need help. Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 - If you know 's protein intake and total daily calorie intake, you can set the Stanford Program for a 3.25:1 ratio and play w/the three ingredients til you " zero out " protein, carbs and fat grams. Holler if you need help. Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 - If you know 's protein intake and total daily calorie intake, you can set the Stanford Program for a 3.25:1 ratio and play w/the three ingredients til you " zero out " protein, carbs and fat grams. Holler if you need help. Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Wow. Thanks for all the responses. threw up again this afternoon, three times within 8 hours. I stopped his feed and have been gave him Pedialyte 10ml at a time(ok'd by the dr.) and he's been much better. When we were going to switch from KetoCal over to RCF I asked the dietician if I should mix the two and she told me not to mix them, something about them being too different (can't quite remember), but that I should alternate feeds. So, my only other thought is to add Pedialyte to the RCF (btw, yes I am using RCF+Polycose+Microlipids ;o) ) but I don't want to mess up his seizure control and everything else....yet don't want him vomiting until Monday either. What do you think about adding Pedialyte to the RCF? I realize I made it sound that I thought 72 was a low glucose for ; I actually thought it was a little high for being too ketotic. But once Kathy explained how the body uses ketones for energy, etc. I understand it much better now. That's why someone said to me that we have on somewhat of a 'starvation diet'. I didn't understand what they meant. If his glucose is too high, could lowering calories help bring the glucose levels down? I'm nearly positive our dietician will lower him to 3.25:1 on Monday. Is there somewhere I can look to find the 'recipe' according to the Stanford calculations? One other thing, if is too ketotic, why would he only be vomiting, not lethargic or sleepy or the other symptoms that go along with being too ketotic? Are we maybe on a fine line of being just a little too ketotic? Thanks again..I hate it when these things happen on weekends!! ' and Re: switching formulas - Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without having low glucose levels. W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to calculate a 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Wow. Thanks for all the responses. threw up again this afternoon, three times within 8 hours. I stopped his feed and have been gave him Pedialyte 10ml at a time(ok'd by the dr.) and he's been much better. When we were going to switch from KetoCal over to RCF I asked the dietician if I should mix the two and she told me not to mix them, something about them being too different (can't quite remember), but that I should alternate feeds. So, my only other thought is to add Pedialyte to the RCF (btw, yes I am using RCF+Polycose+Microlipids ;o) ) but I don't want to mess up his seizure control and everything else....yet don't want him vomiting until Monday either. What do you think about adding Pedialyte to the RCF? I realize I made it sound that I thought 72 was a low glucose for ; I actually thought it was a little high for being too ketotic. But once Kathy explained how the body uses ketones for energy, etc. I understand it much better now. That's why someone said to me that we have on somewhat of a 'starvation diet'. I didn't understand what they meant. If his glucose is too high, could lowering calories help bring the glucose levels down? I'm nearly positive our dietician will lower him to 3.25:1 on Monday. Is there somewhere I can look to find the 'recipe' according to the Stanford calculations? One other thing, if is too ketotic, why would he only be vomiting, not lethargic or sleepy or the other symptoms that go along with being too ketotic? Are we maybe on a fine line of being just a little too ketotic? Thanks again..I hate it when these things happen on weekends!! ' and Re: switching formulas - Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without having low glucose levels. W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to calculate a 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Wow. Thanks for all the responses. threw up again this afternoon, three times within 8 hours. I stopped his feed and have been gave him Pedialyte 10ml at a time(ok'd by the dr.) and he's been much better. When we were going to switch from KetoCal over to RCF I asked the dietician if I should mix the two and she told me not to mix them, something about them being too different (can't quite remember), but that I should alternate feeds. So, my only other thought is to add Pedialyte to the RCF (btw, yes I am using RCF+Polycose+Microlipids ;o) ) but I don't want to mess up his seizure control and everything else....yet don't want him vomiting until Monday either. What do you think about adding Pedialyte to the RCF? I realize I made it sound that I thought 72 was a low glucose for ; I actually thought it was a little high for being too ketotic. But once Kathy explained how the body uses ketones for energy, etc. I understand it much better now. That's why someone said to me that we have on somewhat of a 'starvation diet'. I didn't understand what they meant. If his glucose is too high, could lowering calories help bring the glucose levels down? I'm nearly positive our dietician will lower him to 3.25:1 on Monday. Is there somewhere I can look to find the 'recipe' according to the Stanford calculations? One other thing, if is too ketotic, why would he only be vomiting, not lethargic or sleepy or the other symptoms that go along with being too ketotic? Are we maybe on a fine line of being just a little too ketotic? Thanks again..I hate it when these things happen on weekends!! ' and Re: switching formulas - Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without having low glucose levels. W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to calculate a 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' Tracey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'm not sure I would try lowering calories.... what if the vomiting is due to being too ketotic? then lowering calories would make it worse. I'd ride out the glucose thing & talk to the dietitian on Monday. It is harder to manipulate -- the body can be ornery about blood glucose --- if you deprive it of calories, it could simply take protein from lean muscle and convert it to glucose. This is wild guess here - I'm wondering if the change in formula made the body react to bring the glucose up (if it had been running lower). Any type of stress can increase glucose -- it's a natural response to have it readily available for the cells to uptake. Just a thought. I'm glad he is feeling much better. Hope the rest of the weekend goes smooth. K On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:49:37 -0500 " Jim Eckberg " writes: > Wow. Thanks for all the responses. threw up again this > afternoon, > three times within 8 hours. I stopped his feed and have been gave > him > Pedialyte 10ml at a time(ok'd by the dr.) and he's been much better. > > When we were going to switch from KetoCal over to RCF I asked the > dietician if I should mix the two and she told me not to mix them, > something about them being too different (can't quite remember), > but > that I should alternate feeds. So, my only other thought is to add > Pedialyte to the RCF (btw, yes I am using RCF+Polycose+Microlipids > ;o) ) > but I don't want to mess up his seizure control and everything > else....yet don't want him vomiting until Monday either. What do > you > think about adding Pedialyte to the RCF? > I realize I made it sound that I thought 72 was a low glucose for > ; > I actually thought it was a little high for being too ketotic. But > once > Kathy explained how the body uses ketones for energy, etc. I > understand > it much better now. That's why someone said to me that we have > on > somewhat of a 'starvation diet'. I didn't understand what they > meant. > If his glucose is too high, could lowering calories help bring the > glucose levels down? > I'm nearly positive our dietician will lower him to 3.25:1 on > Monday. > Is there somewhere I can look to find the 'recipe' according to the > Stanford calculations? > One other thing, if is too ketotic, why would he only be > vomiting, > not lethargic or sleepy or the other symptoms that go along with > being > too ketotic? Are we maybe on a fine line of being just a little > too > ketotic? > Thanks again..I hate it when these things happen on weekends!! > ' and > > > > Re: switching formulas > > - > Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? > What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm > > wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) > Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without > having low > glucose levels. > W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to > calculate > a > 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' > Tracey > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'm not sure I would try lowering calories.... what if the vomiting is due to being too ketotic? then lowering calories would make it worse. I'd ride out the glucose thing & talk to the dietitian on Monday. It is harder to manipulate -- the body can be ornery about blood glucose --- if you deprive it of calories, it could simply take protein from lean muscle and convert it to glucose. This is wild guess here - I'm wondering if the change in formula made the body react to bring the glucose up (if it had been running lower). Any type of stress can increase glucose -- it's a natural response to have it readily available for the cells to uptake. Just a thought. I'm glad he is feeling much better. Hope the rest of the weekend goes smooth. K On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:49:37 -0500 " Jim Eckberg " writes: > Wow. Thanks for all the responses. threw up again this > afternoon, > three times within 8 hours. I stopped his feed and have been gave > him > Pedialyte 10ml at a time(ok'd by the dr.) and he's been much better. > > When we were going to switch from KetoCal over to RCF I asked the > dietician if I should mix the two and she told me not to mix them, > something about them being too different (can't quite remember), > but > that I should alternate feeds. So, my only other thought is to add > Pedialyte to the RCF (btw, yes I am using RCF+Polycose+Microlipids > ;o) ) > but I don't want to mess up his seizure control and everything > else....yet don't want him vomiting until Monday either. What do > you > think about adding Pedialyte to the RCF? > I realize I made it sound that I thought 72 was a low glucose for > ; > I actually thought it was a little high for being too ketotic. But > once > Kathy explained how the body uses ketones for energy, etc. I > understand > it much better now. That's why someone said to me that we have > on > somewhat of a 'starvation diet'. I didn't understand what they > meant. > If his glucose is too high, could lowering calories help bring the > glucose levels down? > I'm nearly positive our dietician will lower him to 3.25:1 on > Monday. > Is there somewhere I can look to find the 'recipe' according to the > Stanford calculations? > One other thing, if is too ketotic, why would he only be > vomiting, > not lethargic or sleepy or the other symptoms that go along with > being > too ketotic? Are we maybe on a fine line of being just a little > too > ketotic? > Thanks again..I hate it when these things happen on weekends!! > ' and > > > > Re: switching formulas > > - > Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? > What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm > > wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) > Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without > having low > glucose levels. > W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to > calculate > a > 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' > Tracey > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 I'm not sure I would try lowering calories.... what if the vomiting is due to being too ketotic? then lowering calories would make it worse. I'd ride out the glucose thing & talk to the dietitian on Monday. It is harder to manipulate -- the body can be ornery about blood glucose --- if you deprive it of calories, it could simply take protein from lean muscle and convert it to glucose. This is wild guess here - I'm wondering if the change in formula made the body react to bring the glucose up (if it had been running lower). Any type of stress can increase glucose -- it's a natural response to have it readily available for the cells to uptake. Just a thought. I'm glad he is feeling much better. Hope the rest of the weekend goes smooth. K On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:49:37 -0500 " Jim Eckberg " writes: > Wow. Thanks for all the responses. threw up again this > afternoon, > three times within 8 hours. I stopped his feed and have been gave > him > Pedialyte 10ml at a time(ok'd by the dr.) and he's been much better. > > When we were going to switch from KetoCal over to RCF I asked the > dietician if I should mix the two and she told me not to mix them, > something about them being too different (can't quite remember), > but > that I should alternate feeds. So, my only other thought is to add > Pedialyte to the RCF (btw, yes I am using RCF+Polycose+Microlipids > ;o) ) > but I don't want to mess up his seizure control and everything > else....yet don't want him vomiting until Monday either. What do > you > think about adding Pedialyte to the RCF? > I realize I made it sound that I thought 72 was a low glucose for > ; > I actually thought it was a little high for being too ketotic. But > once > Kathy explained how the body uses ketones for energy, etc. I > understand > it much better now. That's why someone said to me that we have > on > somewhat of a 'starvation diet'. I didn't understand what they > meant. > If his glucose is too high, could lowering calories help bring the > glucose levels down? > I'm nearly positive our dietician will lower him to 3.25:1 on > Monday. > Is there somewhere I can look to find the 'recipe' according to the > Stanford calculations? > One other thing, if is too ketotic, why would he only be > vomiting, > not lethargic or sleepy or the other symptoms that go along with > being > too ketotic? Are we maybe on a fine line of being just a little > too > ketotic? > Thanks again..I hate it when these things happen on weekends!! > ' and > > > > Re: switching formulas > > - > Are you using RCF + Polycose + Microlipids? > What are the ingredients of KetoCal? (RCF is a soy formula...so I'm > > wondering if there could be a soy intolerance...?) > Skyler definitely was hyper-ketotic at the 3.5:1 ratio but without > having low > glucose levels. > W/the Stanford calculating program, it would be pretty easy to > calculate > a > 3.25:1 RCF/Polycose/Microlipids 'recipe.' > Tracey > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.