Re: IEP meeting tomorrow!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/1/2004 9:43:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

info@... writes:

The district is likely to argue that my daughter is doing so well that she

shouldn’t need what we’re asking. I’m concerned as I know that 3rd grade

gets more homework and there is standardized testing that year. My husband

and I both want the Moog consultant on hand throughout the year. She was

instrumental this year with her teacher observations and suggestions. Moog

was also called upon for FM troubleshooting, though this is still not

resolved.

Thank you in advance for any ideas,

First -- are you now in New York? Your note mentions training in the NY area.

I ask because I am and my daughter is just finishing 4th grade. It was a

helluva year with A LOT of state standardized tests. The work was so much more

sophisticated than in 2nd or even 3rd grade. In third grade these kids are being

taught note-taking diagnostic skills. They listen to a reading, take notes and

then write a 3-5 paragraph essay using their notes. They are using " document

based assessments " -- meaning they read a story and then, based on the

content, they infer meanings and themes and consequences from what they've read,

answer questions and also write essays. The expectations are much higher.

In our school the pressure put on these kids for the 3rd and 4th grade tests

are amazing. I personally think it is excessive. Teach them, practice with

them, but don't terrify them. The tests were orignally designed as program tests

-- assessing the school's teaching of the curriculum, not the child. But

things have evolved and now the kids' academic standing is also tested. Being

passed into the next grade can now hinge on these tests.

I don't mean to panic you, but you are correct in your assessment of the year

to come. Things do get harder and the kids are also expected to work faster.

When my son was at this age, we were practically home-schooling him because

the district was providing inappropriate services. In retrospect, I am amazed

that he passed those tests as well as he did.

Your key argument, as I see it, is that your daughter is doing well BECAUSE

of the supports that are in place. To remove or reduce any would be playing

with fire. I would argue that they should not be reduced because the academic

demands will be increasing almost exponentially in the next few years. Playing

with services to see if she falls behind means it will cost them far more when

they have to pay for additional services and possibly private schooling in

order to address the problems that they will have created. This can also cause

your child emotional harm by setting her up for failure. Okay -- I'm

exaggerating

a bit, but not much. Your daughter does not have to be failing to be eligible

for and to receive services. Unfortunately, the lovely Catch 22 we all face

is that when the services are appropriate and successful, the schools want to

reduce those services because of the success they've made possible.

(When our school even hints at reducing services for our son, an honors 8th

grader, I've reminded them that tuition alone at the nearest deaf school is

over $35 thousand.)

The need for the MOOG presence for the three visits could be couched in terms

of your needs as well as your child's.Your own hearing loss requires that the

consultant be present. The district is required to accomodate your needs when

meeting with you, so they cannot push for a teleconference since you have

stated that you could not effectively particiate. They would be in violation of

your personal ADA rights, as well making it impossible for you to be an

effective and advocating parent.

Also, you can assert that the district has no staff who is knowledgeable,

therefore none who is qualified to assess your child's needs or progress. The

school has obviously passed on the opportunities to train their own staff,

therefore the use of a consultant is obviously appropriate. To not use a

consultant

could be viewed as negligent. (I know this is something I've said in our IEP

meetings when insisting on a consultant.) Use that logic when insisting on the

level of MOOG involvement you feel is necessary.

I don't have the case-law at my fingertips since I haven't needed it in ages.

But there is plenty at the Listen Up site. Let you fingers do some walking

around there. I'm sure you will find things you can use.

Remember, you do not have to sign off on anything you feel is insufficient,

inappropriate or wrong. If you cannot come to an agreement, then while you are

sitting there, schedule the next meeting, request arbitration, whatever you

feel should be done. If you feel they are ganging up on you or simply not

listening to your concerns, you can simply end the meeting. I can't tell you how

many times I've heard other parents mention that they suffered until the CSE

chair ended the meeting, knowing they were not coming to any agreement. One mom

recenlty told me she was fighting tears for the last 10 minutes and wanted to

leave but thought it would be rude. I told her that next time she should feel

free to be rude. Remember these meetings are negotiations and you are an active

and vital part, nothing can be decided unless you are satisfied.

My own little pep talk there ... can you tell I just had Ian's annual

meeting? I gave myself that little speech about a week ago.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/1/2004 9:43:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

info@... writes:

The district is likely to argue that my daughter is doing so well that she

shouldn’t need what we’re asking. I’m concerned as I know that 3rd grade

gets more homework and there is standardized testing that year. My husband

and I both want the Moog consultant on hand throughout the year. She was

instrumental this year with her teacher observations and suggestions. Moog

was also called upon for FM troubleshooting, though this is still not

resolved.

Thank you in advance for any ideas,

First -- are you now in New York? Your note mentions training in the NY area.

I ask because I am and my daughter is just finishing 4th grade. It was a

helluva year with A LOT of state standardized tests. The work was so much more

sophisticated than in 2nd or even 3rd grade. In third grade these kids are being

taught note-taking diagnostic skills. They listen to a reading, take notes and

then write a 3-5 paragraph essay using their notes. They are using " document

based assessments " -- meaning they read a story and then, based on the

content, they infer meanings and themes and consequences from what they've read,

answer questions and also write essays. The expectations are much higher.

In our school the pressure put on these kids for the 3rd and 4th grade tests

are amazing. I personally think it is excessive. Teach them, practice with

them, but don't terrify them. The tests were orignally designed as program tests

-- assessing the school's teaching of the curriculum, not the child. But

things have evolved and now the kids' academic standing is also tested. Being

passed into the next grade can now hinge on these tests.

I don't mean to panic you, but you are correct in your assessment of the year

to come. Things do get harder and the kids are also expected to work faster.

When my son was at this age, we were practically home-schooling him because

the district was providing inappropriate services. In retrospect, I am amazed

that he passed those tests as well as he did.

Your key argument, as I see it, is that your daughter is doing well BECAUSE

of the supports that are in place. To remove or reduce any would be playing

with fire. I would argue that they should not be reduced because the academic

demands will be increasing almost exponentially in the next few years. Playing

with services to see if she falls behind means it will cost them far more when

they have to pay for additional services and possibly private schooling in

order to address the problems that they will have created. This can also cause

your child emotional harm by setting her up for failure. Okay -- I'm

exaggerating

a bit, but not much. Your daughter does not have to be failing to be eligible

for and to receive services. Unfortunately, the lovely Catch 22 we all face

is that when the services are appropriate and successful, the schools want to

reduce those services because of the success they've made possible.

(When our school even hints at reducing services for our son, an honors 8th

grader, I've reminded them that tuition alone at the nearest deaf school is

over $35 thousand.)

The need for the MOOG presence for the three visits could be couched in terms

of your needs as well as your child's.Your own hearing loss requires that the

consultant be present. The district is required to accomodate your needs when

meeting with you, so they cannot push for a teleconference since you have

stated that you could not effectively particiate. They would be in violation of

your personal ADA rights, as well making it impossible for you to be an

effective and advocating parent.

Also, you can assert that the district has no staff who is knowledgeable,

therefore none who is qualified to assess your child's needs or progress. The

school has obviously passed on the opportunities to train their own staff,

therefore the use of a consultant is obviously appropriate. To not use a

consultant

could be viewed as negligent. (I know this is something I've said in our IEP

meetings when insisting on a consultant.) Use that logic when insisting on the

level of MOOG involvement you feel is necessary.

I don't have the case-law at my fingertips since I haven't needed it in ages.

But there is plenty at the Listen Up site. Let you fingers do some walking

around there. I'm sure you will find things you can use.

Remember, you do not have to sign off on anything you feel is insufficient,

inappropriate or wrong. If you cannot come to an agreement, then while you are

sitting there, schedule the next meeting, request arbitration, whatever you

feel should be done. If you feel they are ganging up on you or simply not

listening to your concerns, you can simply end the meeting. I can't tell you how

many times I've heard other parents mention that they suffered until the CSE

chair ended the meeting, knowing they were not coming to any agreement. One mom

recenlty told me she was fighting tears for the last 10 minutes and wanted to

leave but thought it would be rude. I told her that next time she should feel

free to be rude. Remember these meetings are negotiations and you are an active

and vital part, nothing can be decided unless you are satisfied.

My own little pep talk there ... can you tell I just had Ian's annual

meeting? I gave myself that little speech about a week ago.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/1/2004 9:43:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

info@... writes:

The district is likely to argue that my daughter is doing so well that she

shouldn’t need what we’re asking. I’m concerned as I know that 3rd grade

gets more homework and there is standardized testing that year. My husband

and I both want the Moog consultant on hand throughout the year. She was

instrumental this year with her teacher observations and suggestions. Moog

was also called upon for FM troubleshooting, though this is still not

resolved.

Thank you in advance for any ideas,

First -- are you now in New York? Your note mentions training in the NY area.

I ask because I am and my daughter is just finishing 4th grade. It was a

helluva year with A LOT of state standardized tests. The work was so much more

sophisticated than in 2nd or even 3rd grade. In third grade these kids are being

taught note-taking diagnostic skills. They listen to a reading, take notes and

then write a 3-5 paragraph essay using their notes. They are using " document

based assessments " -- meaning they read a story and then, based on the

content, they infer meanings and themes and consequences from what they've read,

answer questions and also write essays. The expectations are much higher.

In our school the pressure put on these kids for the 3rd and 4th grade tests

are amazing. I personally think it is excessive. Teach them, practice with

them, but don't terrify them. The tests were orignally designed as program tests

-- assessing the school's teaching of the curriculum, not the child. But

things have evolved and now the kids' academic standing is also tested. Being

passed into the next grade can now hinge on these tests.

I don't mean to panic you, but you are correct in your assessment of the year

to come. Things do get harder and the kids are also expected to work faster.

When my son was at this age, we were practically home-schooling him because

the district was providing inappropriate services. In retrospect, I am amazed

that he passed those tests as well as he did.

Your key argument, as I see it, is that your daughter is doing well BECAUSE

of the supports that are in place. To remove or reduce any would be playing

with fire. I would argue that they should not be reduced because the academic

demands will be increasing almost exponentially in the next few years. Playing

with services to see if she falls behind means it will cost them far more when

they have to pay for additional services and possibly private schooling in

order to address the problems that they will have created. This can also cause

your child emotional harm by setting her up for failure. Okay -- I'm

exaggerating

a bit, but not much. Your daughter does not have to be failing to be eligible

for and to receive services. Unfortunately, the lovely Catch 22 we all face

is that when the services are appropriate and successful, the schools want to

reduce those services because of the success they've made possible.

(When our school even hints at reducing services for our son, an honors 8th

grader, I've reminded them that tuition alone at the nearest deaf school is

over $35 thousand.)

The need for the MOOG presence for the three visits could be couched in terms

of your needs as well as your child's.Your own hearing loss requires that the

consultant be present. The district is required to accomodate your needs when

meeting with you, so they cannot push for a teleconference since you have

stated that you could not effectively particiate. They would be in violation of

your personal ADA rights, as well making it impossible for you to be an

effective and advocating parent.

Also, you can assert that the district has no staff who is knowledgeable,

therefore none who is qualified to assess your child's needs or progress. The

school has obviously passed on the opportunities to train their own staff,

therefore the use of a consultant is obviously appropriate. To not use a

consultant

could be viewed as negligent. (I know this is something I've said in our IEP

meetings when insisting on a consultant.) Use that logic when insisting on the

level of MOOG involvement you feel is necessary.

I don't have the case-law at my fingertips since I haven't needed it in ages.

But there is plenty at the Listen Up site. Let you fingers do some walking

around there. I'm sure you will find things you can use.

Remember, you do not have to sign off on anything you feel is insufficient,

inappropriate or wrong. If you cannot come to an agreement, then while you are

sitting there, schedule the next meeting, request arbitration, whatever you

feel should be done. If you feel they are ganging up on you or simply not

listening to your concerns, you can simply end the meeting. I can't tell you how

many times I've heard other parents mention that they suffered until the CSE

chair ended the meeting, knowing they were not coming to any agreement. One mom

recenlty told me she was fighting tears for the last 10 minutes and wanted to

leave but thought it would be rude. I told her that next time she should feel

free to be rude. Remember these meetings are negotiations and you are an active

and vital part, nothing can be decided unless you are satisfied.

My own little pep talk there ... can you tell I just had Ian's annual

meeting? I gave myself that little speech about a week ago.

Best -- Jill

[Guest guest]

a,

Since you are now in NY, you might want to investigate resources that are

more local. The Lexington School in NYC has been very helpful when I've called

them. We're about 60 miles up the Hudson River from NYC, so that school as well

as one in White Plains and Albany are now options as well as resources for our

son.

I don't have names to share at Lexington, the last time I spoke with them was

about 3 years ago (we've had no recent need) but I'm sure if you just call

and let them know what resources you're looking for, they'll put you through to

someone who can help. Our son was " not deaf enough " (our district's lovely

phrase) to attend their school, but they were great in helping me find more

local

resources.

Also, our TOD is provided through BOCES. There is also a consultant sent for

annual teacher training in classroom techniques as well as quarterly

assessments. I don't know if your local BOCES has resources that are worthwhile,

so you

may want to stick with the people at MOOG.

My reason for investigating local rsources (without telling the district

you're doing this, of course) is that you may be able to get more services if

the

resources were more local and therefore less expensive for them. But I'd have

it all lined up and make sure it's what I felt was appropriate before I

offered it to the district as an option.

Best of luck at the meeting!

Jill

_____________________________________

In a message dated 6/1/2004 1:34:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

info@... writes:

Thanks so much for the ideas and encouragement, they are very helpful. Yes,

I'm in New York, on Long Island, back in the very district I grew up in.

[Guest guest]

a,

Since you are now in NY, you might want to investigate resources that are

more local. The Lexington School in NYC has been very helpful when I've called

them. We're about 60 miles up the Hudson River from NYC, so that school as well

as one in White Plains and Albany are now options as well as resources for our

son.

I don't have names to share at Lexington, the last time I spoke with them was

about 3 years ago (we've had no recent need) but I'm sure if you just call

and let them know what resources you're looking for, they'll put you through to

someone who can help. Our son was " not deaf enough " (our district's lovely

phrase) to attend their school, but they were great in helping me find more

local

resources.

Also, our TOD is provided through BOCES. There is also a consultant sent for

annual teacher training in classroom techniques as well as quarterly

assessments. I don't know if your local BOCES has resources that are worthwhile,

so you

may want to stick with the people at MOOG.

My reason for investigating local rsources (without telling the district

you're doing this, of course) is that you may be able to get more services if

the

resources were more local and therefore less expensive for them. But I'd have

it all lined up and make sure it's what I felt was appropriate before I

offered it to the district as an option.

Best of luck at the meeting!

Jill

_____________________________________

In a message dated 6/1/2004 1:34:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

info@... writes:

Thanks so much for the ideas and encouragement, they are very helpful. Yes,

I'm in New York, on Long Island, back in the very district I grew up in.

[Guest guest]

a,

Since you are now in NY, you might want to investigate resources that are

more local. The Lexington School in NYC has been very helpful when I've called

them. We're about 60 miles up the Hudson River from NYC, so that school as well

as one in White Plains and Albany are now options as well as resources for our

son.

I don't have names to share at Lexington, the last time I spoke with them was

about 3 years ago (we've had no recent need) but I'm sure if you just call

and let them know what resources you're looking for, they'll put you through to

someone who can help. Our son was " not deaf enough " (our district's lovely

phrase) to attend their school, but they were great in helping me find more

local

resources.

Also, our TOD is provided through BOCES. There is also a consultant sent for

annual teacher training in classroom techniques as well as quarterly

assessments. I don't know if your local BOCES has resources that are worthwhile,

so you

may want to stick with the people at MOOG.

My reason for investigating local rsources (without telling the district

you're doing this, of course) is that you may be able to get more services if

the

resources were more local and therefore less expensive for them. But I'd have

it all lined up and make sure it's what I felt was appropriate before I

offered it to the district as an option.

Best of luck at the meeting!

Jill

_____________________________________

In a message dated 6/1/2004 1:34:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

info@... writes:

Thanks so much for the ideas and encouragement, they are very helpful. Yes,

I'm in New York, on Long Island, back in the very district I grew up in.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

Thanks so much for the ideas and encouragement, they are very helpful. Yes,

I'm in New York, on Long Island, back in the very district I grew up in.

Times have certainly changed from when I was a child and my mother had to

fight to get the district to hire a permanent speech therapist rather than

temps. Unfortunately, she lost that fight and we ended up using a private

therapist.

I realize we've been fortunate that our district has agreed to the Moog

consultant. Their fee is a few hundred dollars plus travel expenses. But to

put it in perspective, another family we know was able to get the district

to pay for two years of tuition expenses at Moog, which is in excess of

$16,000 a year. In view of that, we don't feel that the consultative visits

are unreasonable to ask for and they have already proven to be highly

beneficial both to my child and to the district which now has 2 other

cochlear implanted children.

a

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

a Rosenthal

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

Thanks so much for the ideas and encouragement, they are very helpful. Yes,

I'm in New York, on Long Island, back in the very district I grew up in.

Times have certainly changed from when I was a child and my mother had to

fight to get the district to hire a permanent speech therapist rather than

temps. Unfortunately, she lost that fight and we ended up using a private

therapist.

I realize we've been fortunate that our district has agreed to the Moog

consultant. Their fee is a few hundred dollars plus travel expenses. But to

put it in perspective, another family we know was able to get the district

to pay for two years of tuition expenses at Moog, which is in excess of

$16,000 a year. In view of that, we don't feel that the consultative visits

are unreasonable to ask for and they have already proven to be highly

beneficial both to my child and to the district which now has 2 other

cochlear implanted children.

a

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

a Rosenthal

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

Thanks so much for the ideas and encouragement, they are very helpful. Yes,

I'm in New York, on Long Island, back in the very district I grew up in.

Times have certainly changed from when I was a child and my mother had to

fight to get the district to hire a permanent speech therapist rather than

temps. Unfortunately, she lost that fight and we ended up using a private

therapist.

I realize we've been fortunate that our district has agreed to the Moog

consultant. Their fee is a few hundred dollars plus travel expenses. But to

put it in perspective, another family we know was able to get the district

to pay for two years of tuition expenses at Moog, which is in excess of

$16,000 a year. In view of that, we don't feel that the consultative visits

are unreasonable to ask for and they have already proven to be highly

beneficial both to my child and to the district which now has 2 other

cochlear implanted children.

a

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

a Rosenthal