Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thank you all for responding so quickly and with freakish accuracy to my initial posting! This is the first posting I've put on and I'm not entirely sure how to use this site, so please bear with me as I ease-in. Kazam - You're right, the cycle does get exhausting but it is so good to have this kind of support from other, isn't it? I find myself being able to rise above the mist and see it for what it is now - a game on a treadmill. Doug - your fog-clearing message spun me out to the max (and gave me and my husband a good belly laugh)! And you are " spot on " . I have read SWOE which is how I got my original 'hunch' that she had this, and further confirmation came from two psychologists who reviewed her emails back and forth to me and heard about her phone calls. Especially since one of them said that CPTSD which is what my Nada said she was diagnosed with is a 'new name' for BPD. Unfortunately we are not in the same country to actually get family counselling but I truly believe that my Nada needs to have individual therapy with a specialist first before dragging the entire family into this. My father says she was in counselling for 4 years with a specialist social worker for victims of child abuse. I don't know what to think about that. He is in complete denial that she has BPD. Thanks again -MexMouse > > > > > > He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). > > She > > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying > > monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding > > and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way > > with Dorothy. See the analogy? > > > > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice > > a > > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send > > two > > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > > email......not combined with any news. > > > > May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? > > > > You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to > > take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set > > boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, > > you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as > > such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and > > noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. > > > > So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, > > and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging > > the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of > > course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am > > going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And > > once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly > > insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and > > insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and > > since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. > > > > I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to > > acknowledge or change a thing. > > > > Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re > > bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. > > These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which > > estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a > > counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, > > accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly > > requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the > > focus on the good stuff exercise. > > > > > > > > > > Any news can be sent separately. > > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate > > it > > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and > > a > > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > > > Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a > > feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone > > challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? > > She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the > > face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. > > > > And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad > > behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have > > to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > > > > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is > > in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever > > she does, it will be nothing good. > > > > For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me > > before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the > > picture. > > > > But you can t comment! > > > > No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do > > anything other than model BP behaviors. > > > > Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. > > The only winning move is not to play. > > > > I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you > > can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, > > these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can > > agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us > > deal with the broken family dynamics. > > > > My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. > > > > But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your > > concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. > > > > You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to > > require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but > > forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, > > these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. > > > > Don t fall for it. > > > > Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family > > counseling. > > > > Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thank you all for responding so quickly and with freakish accuracy to my initial posting! This is the first posting I've put on and I'm not entirely sure how to use this site, so please bear with me as I ease-in. Kazam - You're right, the cycle does get exhausting but it is so good to have this kind of support from other, isn't it? I find myself being able to rise above the mist and see it for what it is now - a game on a treadmill. Doug - your fog-clearing message spun me out to the max (and gave me and my husband a good belly laugh)! And you are " spot on " . I have read SWOE which is how I got my original 'hunch' that she had this, and further confirmation came from two psychologists who reviewed her emails back and forth to me and heard about her phone calls. Especially since one of them said that CPTSD which is what my Nada said she was diagnosed with is a 'new name' for BPD. Unfortunately we are not in the same country to actually get family counselling but I truly believe that my Nada needs to have individual therapy with a specialist first before dragging the entire family into this. My father says she was in counselling for 4 years with a specialist social worker for victims of child abuse. I don't know what to think about that. He is in complete denial that she has BPD. Thanks again -MexMouse > > > > > > He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). > > She > > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying > > monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding > > and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way > > with Dorothy. See the analogy? > > > > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice > > a > > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send > > two > > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > > email......not combined with any news. > > > > May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? > > > > You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to > > take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set > > boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, > > you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as > > such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and > > noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. > > > > So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, > > and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging > > the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of > > course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am > > going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And > > once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly > > insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and > > insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and > > since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. > > > > I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to > > acknowledge or change a thing. > > > > Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re > > bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. > > These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which > > estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a > > counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, > > accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly > > requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the > > focus on the good stuff exercise. > > > > > > > > > > Any news can be sent separately. > > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate > > it > > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and > > a > > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > > > Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a > > feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone > > challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? > > She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the > > face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. > > > > And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad > > behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have > > to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > > > > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is > > in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever > > she does, it will be nothing good. > > > > For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me > > before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the > > picture. > > > > But you can t comment! > > > > No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do > > anything other than model BP behaviors. > > > > Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. > > The only winning move is not to play. > > > > I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you > > can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, > > these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can > > agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us > > deal with the broken family dynamics. > > > > My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. > > > > But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your > > concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. > > > > You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to > > require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but > > forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, > > these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. > > > > Don t fall for it. > > > > Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family > > counseling. > > > > Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thank you all for responding so quickly and with freakish accuracy to my initial posting! This is the first posting I've put on and I'm not entirely sure how to use this site, so please bear with me as I ease-in. Kazam - You're right, the cycle does get exhausting but it is so good to have this kind of support from other, isn't it? I find myself being able to rise above the mist and see it for what it is now - a game on a treadmill. Doug - your fog-clearing message spun me out to the max (and gave me and my husband a good belly laugh)! And you are " spot on " . I have read SWOE which is how I got my original 'hunch' that she had this, and further confirmation came from two psychologists who reviewed her emails back and forth to me and heard about her phone calls. Especially since one of them said that CPTSD which is what my Nada said she was diagnosed with is a 'new name' for BPD. Unfortunately we are not in the same country to actually get family counselling but I truly believe that my Nada needs to have individual therapy with a specialist first before dragging the entire family into this. My father says she was in counselling for 4 years with a specialist social worker for victims of child abuse. I don't know what to think about that. He is in complete denial that she has BPD. Thanks again -MexMouse > > > > > > He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). > > She > > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Sadly, your dad has become a flying monkey. Oz metaphor, the flying > > monkeys were not the Wicked witch, but they flew out to do her bidding > > and pull Dorothy back into the witches castle, so she could have her way > > with Dorothy. See the analogy? > > > > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice > > a > > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send > > two > > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > > email......not combined with any news. > > > > May I cut through the FOG and interpret that for you? > > > > You are an evil , ungrateful daughter to cut me off. I m not going to > > take responsibility for my bad behaviors which caused you to set > > boundaries that I don t like. Since my bad behaviors are not my fault, > > you are wrong for setting boundaries about them and I ll treat them as > > such. I m going to ignore them, and play the noble victim role, and > > noblles oblige, I ll play the one who is big about your problem. > > > > So, I m going to let you fall back into the FOG in any way that I can, > > and manipulate you into telling me how good I am, without acknowledging > > the behaviors that you objected to, and set boundaries on. I am not, of > > course going to respect your boundaries, or make any change, but I am > > going to try to do an end run around them with this little trap. And > > once you bite and tell me how good I am, I ll respond with some utterly > > insincere praise about you, which will be so blatantly untrue and > > insincere that it will insult your intelligence for me to say it, and > > since I wont mean it, it will cost me nothing. > > > > I win all around, because I get around your boundaries and don t have to > > acknowledge or change a thing. > > > > Do you notice what is implied there? You say I m bad, but I say you re > > bad too. So lets just all concentrate on the good stuff and make nice. > > These exercises are good for couples therapy, or situations in which > > estranged family members are trying to heal relationships with a > > counselor. But it skips the very vital step of acknowledging her stuff, > > accepting responsibility for her bad behaviors. And it implicitly > > requires you to just swallow them and let it go while you engage in the > > focus on the good stuff exercise. > > > > > > > > > > Any news can be sent separately. > > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate > > it > > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and > > a > > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > > > Notice also, she does not leave any vehicle for either to express even a > > feeling of how things they may do make you feel bad. Why would anyone > > challenge a positive statement made about them? See the trap there? > > She ll give you a left handed compliment that amounts to a slap in the > > face, and by this agreement you can t comment on it. > > > > And of course she controls it without dealing with issues and bad > > behaviors. So you can t comment on it by her rules, nor does she have > > to deal with her vitriol toward your husband. > > > > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > This is not an exercise, it is a blatant manipulation. Of COURSE she is > > in denial, she isnt wrong or responsible for anything, ever. Whatever > > she does, it will be nothing good. > > > > For example, It was good when you were a young girl and listened to me > > before that worthless son of a bitch you re married to came into the > > picture. > > > > But you can t comment! > > > > No, you are not over reacting. NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a BP to do > > anything other than model BP behaviors. > > > > Play is the operative word. This is a game. You never win in BP games. > > The only winning move is not to play. > > > > I would counter, if you are interested in healing the relationship, you > > can start by respecting my boundaries. I don t have to justify them, > > these are what I need to be safe and healthy around you. And you can > > agree to family therapy sessions with my therapist, so she can help us > > deal with the broken family dynamics. > > > > My guess it she will draw a vacuum backing away from that idea. > > > > But what you are describing is all on her terms, ignores you and your > > concerns and safe limits, and does nothing to deal with the situation. > > > > You do not need her to tell you what was right with you. And for her to > > require you to tell her, I liked making candy with you when I was 6, but > > forbidding you to say, you do xyz to me now and I don t like it, or mom, > > these behaviors when I was growing up hurt me, is pure manipulation. > > > > Don t fall for it. > > > > Nice answer, is counter offer to respect boundaries and do family > > counseling. > > > > Direct answer, is bullshit. Nice try, but not a frigging chance. > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Annie - Yup, total disregard for my boundaries. I ended up replying with an email stating in so many words, that I would participate in this exercise as long as " they " agree to follow their rules and my one rule of not bad-mouthing my husband (especially) and other members of the family in their " newsy " emails, nor any other form of communication - phone calls, and ecards (I won't go into that lovely experience, but it was very cutting and painful towards my husband). This email resulted in a barrage of attacks from my nada in a subsequent email and a phone call from my father. It is his usual role to step in and try to get me to do what she wants....and he succeeded after we had our typical logical discussion. I know that this exercise is fruitless but he seems to think he can control it - without even having a plan in place for WHEN it fails. (Oh yeah, and my nada has already stated that if this exercise fails, it will be my fault entirely) nice. Exhausted already - MexMouse > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Annie - Yup, total disregard for my boundaries. I ended up replying with an email stating in so many words, that I would participate in this exercise as long as " they " agree to follow their rules and my one rule of not bad-mouthing my husband (especially) and other members of the family in their " newsy " emails, nor any other form of communication - phone calls, and ecards (I won't go into that lovely experience, but it was very cutting and painful towards my husband). This email resulted in a barrage of attacks from my nada in a subsequent email and a phone call from my father. It is his usual role to step in and try to get me to do what she wants....and he succeeded after we had our typical logical discussion. I know that this exercise is fruitless but he seems to think he can control it - without even having a plan in place for WHEN it fails. (Oh yeah, and my nada has already stated that if this exercise fails, it will be my fault entirely) nice. Exhausted already - MexMouse > > > > > > Hello, I'm new to this (any) group and wanted to get involved because > > just recently I came to the understanding that my mother has BPD and am > > looking for some guidance and of course support from specialists and > > other " Nons " . > > > > A major fall-out happened about 6 months ago where I tried to lay out > > some clearly stated boundaries for my mother, as directed by my > > counsellor, and it has pretty much cut-off all communication between her > > & I and has caused serious relationship damage between my father and > > myself. He seems to have changed over the past year or so and has > > fervently taken her side, to the detriment of the relationship between > > him and every other member of our family (immediate and extended). She > > had already damaged those relationships over the years. > > > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " They stated that they would like to try this and reevaluate it > > after two months. She has intentionally kept my husband out of it, and a > > major issue I have with her is how she has 'demonised' my husband. > > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. This feels like " another dance, dressed up differently > > and in a different location " . I fear she is going to ruminate on what > > she had or liked about me in the past and cannot have now and will > > spiral downwards, quickly. > > > > Am I over-reacting? Should I trust this and play along? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Spot-on KT! She will go thru this " high " . My father actually ran the idea by his counsellor who thought it was a good idea. So he rings me and promises to keep the rules and feels that he can control this situation. Oh man, if he thinks this will help for real, he's in for a rude awakening. It would be nice to be 100% wrong on this but I know better. I have decided to participate in this little game of their's and hope that by giving my father the ability to feel in control of the exercise (as he stated he thinks he is), he will be awakened to the fact that he isn't. He is in complete denial that she has it because she has convinced him that her mother has it (and she may just as well have it too). I can't wait to see what happens next. Thanks so much for your input - MexMouse > > Last week I got an email from her (signed by both) which proposed that > > all three of us: " look far into the past to remember good things about > > each other. Then we can send an email with a positive statement twice a > > week. That is, you send two to Dad, and two to me, and we each send two > > to you. These positive statements will be the only thing in that > > email......not combined with any news. Any news can be sent separately. > > The positive statements will not be commented on nor challenged by any > > of us. " > > Wow. Just...wow. > I have to say that (for me) it is so much easier to deal with all this mess when they come up with something so outrageously ridiculous as this! What can you do but laugh? > > I haven't read all the replies, but seeing who sent them, I know I don't have to tell you what this means or suggest what to do about it, because they always say the same things I do. But what I couldn't help thinking as I read that email is how subjective the term " positive statements " is. > > I mean, let's assume the family goes through with this remarkable plan to have an emotional orgy (forgive the term, but that's what it makes me think of)...So, you do your darndest to come up with something genuine that might be a compliment, or heck, maybe you even tell her she's better than Jesus and that the stars wouldn't shine without her...and it wouldn't be good enough. And then, her idea of a compliment is telling you you're the most beautiful fat person she's ever seen or that you could be so successful if you didn't have to work so hard to compensate for your loser of a husband. To a nada, that seems like a compliment! And built into the rules is the genius caveat that you can't argue with her about any of them. Puh-lease. > > I see what I presume others have pointed out already: a big shiny hook with a nasty, wriggly, worm that doesn't even cover up the giant barb on the end. Does she seriously think you're going to bite? I mean, come on...the least she could do is head over to the tackle shop for a realistic-looking fly. > > > I encourage the idea that my mother tries to focus on the " good " about > > me, but without proper counselling and medication, I fear this is just > > an empty exercise and that she is in denial-not focused on the real > > issue at hand. > > It sounds like you have keen perception of what is going on here. I think when a person with BPD is focused on the good, it is usually part of splitting. You know too well that demonization comes rapidly at the heels of idealization. The trick is to understand that neither extreme is to be trusted, and to come to your own understanding of who you are, taking shelter somewhere in the stable middle ground of life that they don't know even exists. Does that make sense? She might compliment you, but it's really just the only way she knows to get people to like her or to mirror back to her the attention that she so desperately craves...and when it doesn't work or the high wears off, she'll go back to using you as the rubbish bin where she tries to put all the things she hates about herself. > > I think you're right not to trust her. > > KT > > KT > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would not consider CPTSD the same as BPD at all. I have cPTSD and my therpist says it is not the same as BPD. CPTSD is different from PTSD in that the person with CPTSD has undergone repeated long term traumas instead of one or short term trauma which would cause PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the subject I believe whole heartedly that they are different. I'm not BPD. I'm not manipulative, not a liar, self injurious or an abuser in the way my nada was at all. I have never had a problem owning up to my mistakes, saying sorry & really meaning it, etc. I know you are not insinuating that myself or anyone else with CPTSD is actually suffering from BPD so please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not angry or anything like that. Obviously therapist & psychologist opinions will vary. But from my own research I do not fit the criteria for BPD and my therapist says they are different and I do believe that. She has also told me I do not fit the criteria for BPD (trust me, with the way my nada projected all her own hatred onto me, that was something that was/is an issue for me because I was always " the crazy one " in my nadas eyes.) One thing she was trying to explain to me with trauma is this: When one undergoes repeated traumas, there are several paths they can take, two of those being CPTSD & BPD. They may be viewed by some as cousins, but no, they are not the same. I hope this makes sense. Mia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would not consider CPTSD the same as BPD at all. I have cPTSD and my therpist says it is not the same as BPD. CPTSD is different from PTSD in that the person with CPTSD has undergone repeated long term traumas instead of one or short term trauma which would cause PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the subject I believe whole heartedly that they are different. I'm not BPD. I'm not manipulative, not a liar, self injurious or an abuser in the way my nada was at all. I have never had a problem owning up to my mistakes, saying sorry & really meaning it, etc. I know you are not insinuating that myself or anyone else with CPTSD is actually suffering from BPD so please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not angry or anything like that. Obviously therapist & psychologist opinions will vary. But from my own research I do not fit the criteria for BPD and my therapist says they are different and I do believe that. She has also told me I do not fit the criteria for BPD (trust me, with the way my nada projected all her own hatred onto me, that was something that was/is an issue for me because I was always " the crazy one " in my nadas eyes.) One thing she was trying to explain to me with trauma is this: When one undergoes repeated traumas, there are several paths they can take, two of those being CPTSD & BPD. They may be viewed by some as cousins, but no, they are not the same. I hope this makes sense. Mia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would not consider CPTSD the same as BPD at all. I have cPTSD and my therpist says it is not the same as BPD. CPTSD is different from PTSD in that the person with CPTSD has undergone repeated long term traumas instead of one or short term trauma which would cause PTSD. After doing a lot of reading on the subject I believe whole heartedly that they are different. I'm not BPD. I'm not manipulative, not a liar, self injurious or an abuser in the way my nada was at all. I have never had a problem owning up to my mistakes, saying sorry & really meaning it, etc. I know you are not insinuating that myself or anyone else with CPTSD is actually suffering from BPD so please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not angry or anything like that. Obviously therapist & psychologist opinions will vary. But from my own research I do not fit the criteria for BPD and my therapist says they are different and I do believe that. She has also told me I do not fit the criteria for BPD (trust me, with the way my nada projected all her own hatred onto me, that was something that was/is an issue for me because I was always " the crazy one " in my nadas eyes.) One thing she was trying to explain to me with trauma is this: When one undergoes repeated traumas, there are several paths they can take, two of those being CPTSD & BPD. They may be viewed by some as cousins, but no, they are not the same. I hope this makes sense. Mia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree, I think that the therapist who said that " PTSD (or " complex PTSD " ) is just a new name for BPD " is probably just misinformed. The list of traits and behaviors for the two disorders are different. Some behaviors overlap, but these are two different disorders. Although " c-ptsd " isn't in the DSM-IV, there are psychiatrists who would like it to be added in the next edition. -Annie > > I would not consider CPTSD the same as BPD at all. I have cPTSD and my > therpist says it is not the same as BPD. CPTSD is different from PTSD in > that the person with CPTSD has undergone repeated long term traumas instead > of one or short term trauma which would cause PTSD. > > After doing a lot of reading on the subject I believe whole heartedly that > they are different. I'm not BPD. I'm not manipulative, not a liar, self > injurious or an abuser in the way my nada was at all. I have never had a > problem owning up to my mistakes, saying sorry & really meaning it, etc. > > I know you are not insinuating that myself or anyone else with CPTSD is > actually suffering from BPD so please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not > angry or anything like that. Obviously therapist & psychologist opinions > will vary. But from my own research I do not fit the criteria for BPD and > my therapist says they are different and I do believe that. She has also > told me I do not fit the criteria for BPD (trust me, with the way my nada > projected all her own hatred onto me, that was something that was/is an > issue for me because I was always " the crazy one " in my nadas eyes.) > > One thing she was trying to explain to me with trauma is this: When one > undergoes repeated traumas, there are several paths they can take, two of > those being CPTSD & BPD. They may be viewed by some as cousins, but no, > they are not the same. > > I hope this makes sense. > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree, I think that the therapist who said that " PTSD (or " complex PTSD " ) is just a new name for BPD " is probably just misinformed. The list of traits and behaviors for the two disorders are different. Some behaviors overlap, but these are two different disorders. Although " c-ptsd " isn't in the DSM-IV, there are psychiatrists who would like it to be added in the next edition. -Annie > > I would not consider CPTSD the same as BPD at all. I have cPTSD and my > therpist says it is not the same as BPD. CPTSD is different from PTSD in > that the person with CPTSD has undergone repeated long term traumas instead > of one or short term trauma which would cause PTSD. > > After doing a lot of reading on the subject I believe whole heartedly that > they are different. I'm not BPD. I'm not manipulative, not a liar, self > injurious or an abuser in the way my nada was at all. I have never had a > problem owning up to my mistakes, saying sorry & really meaning it, etc. > > I know you are not insinuating that myself or anyone else with CPTSD is > actually suffering from BPD so please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not > angry or anything like that. Obviously therapist & psychologist opinions > will vary. But from my own research I do not fit the criteria for BPD and > my therapist says they are different and I do believe that. She has also > told me I do not fit the criteria for BPD (trust me, with the way my nada > projected all her own hatred onto me, that was something that was/is an > issue for me because I was always " the crazy one " in my nadas eyes.) > > One thing she was trying to explain to me with trauma is this: When one > undergoes repeated traumas, there are several paths they can take, two of > those being CPTSD & BPD. They may be viewed by some as cousins, but no, > they are not the same. > > I hope this makes sense. > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I agree, I think that the therapist who said that " PTSD (or " complex PTSD " ) is just a new name for BPD " is probably just misinformed. The list of traits and behaviors for the two disorders are different. Some behaviors overlap, but these are two different disorders. Although " c-ptsd " isn't in the DSM-IV, there are psychiatrists who would like it to be added in the next edition. -Annie > > I would not consider CPTSD the same as BPD at all. I have cPTSD and my > therpist says it is not the same as BPD. CPTSD is different from PTSD in > that the person with CPTSD has undergone repeated long term traumas instead > of one or short term trauma which would cause PTSD. > > After doing a lot of reading on the subject I believe whole heartedly that > they are different. I'm not BPD. I'm not manipulative, not a liar, self > injurious or an abuser in the way my nada was at all. I have never had a > problem owning up to my mistakes, saying sorry & really meaning it, etc. > > I know you are not insinuating that myself or anyone else with CPTSD is > actually suffering from BPD so please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not > angry or anything like that. Obviously therapist & psychologist opinions > will vary. But from my own research I do not fit the criteria for BPD and > my therapist says they are different and I do believe that. She has also > told me I do not fit the criteria for BPD (trust me, with the way my nada > projected all her own hatred onto me, that was something that was/is an > issue for me because I was always " the crazy one " in my nadas eyes.) > > One thing she was trying to explain to me with trauma is this: When one > undergoes repeated traumas, there are several paths they can take, two of > those being CPTSD & BPD. They may be viewed by some as cousins, but no, > they are not the same. > > I hope this makes sense. > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it doesn't look promising. I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think taking out narcissism is a mistake =( Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it doesn't look promising. I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think taking out narcissism is a mistake =( Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I was going to mention this too. Back before I moved out of state (about 4 - 5 years ago) I was at a very very low point. I won't get into all the issues I was having at the time, but I had started seeing the therapist I had in that state. She told me that I had CPTSD. Well, given the types of flashbacks I was having at the time, I told my husband " I think you should take me to the hospital. I really feel like I should just die " . Of course I ended up in a psychiatric facility for about 3 days. The psychiatrist there told me he thought I had BPD. I knew a little about BPD at that time, but not a lot and did not know my nada was likely suffering from BPD. I told him, " My therapist & psychiatrist think I have complex PTSD " . He said " same thing " . It did trouble me enough at the time that I did tell both my T & Pdoc about it when I got out. My T at that time even said the same thing, " no you don't fit the criteria for BPD " . Again, my Pdoc said the same thing. It was that T who helped me realize that it was my nada who was BPD. That's when I started reading about it and educating myself more on PTSD & CPTSD. So I do know first hand that that belief is out there, like I said, different people have different opinions. Like Annie said, yes there is some overlap in some traits, but then again these traits are human traits. Also, the thing with a lot of mental illness, there is so much overlap with many conditions. Again, I sure did not intend to sound rude or anything mexi, so I hope you didn't take it that way. But I do feel strongly that the belief that CPTSD & BPD are the same is incorrect. Mia > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > doesn't look promising. > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > Mia > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I was going to mention this too. Back before I moved out of state (about 4 - 5 years ago) I was at a very very low point. I won't get into all the issues I was having at the time, but I had started seeing the therapist I had in that state. She told me that I had CPTSD. Well, given the types of flashbacks I was having at the time, I told my husband " I think you should take me to the hospital. I really feel like I should just die " . Of course I ended up in a psychiatric facility for about 3 days. The psychiatrist there told me he thought I had BPD. I knew a little about BPD at that time, but not a lot and did not know my nada was likely suffering from BPD. I told him, " My therapist & psychiatrist think I have complex PTSD " . He said " same thing " . It did trouble me enough at the time that I did tell both my T & Pdoc about it when I got out. My T at that time even said the same thing, " no you don't fit the criteria for BPD " . Again, my Pdoc said the same thing. It was that T who helped me realize that it was my nada who was BPD. That's when I started reading about it and educating myself more on PTSD & CPTSD. So I do know first hand that that belief is out there, like I said, different people have different opinions. Like Annie said, yes there is some overlap in some traits, but then again these traits are human traits. Also, the thing with a lot of mental illness, there is so much overlap with many conditions. Again, I sure did not intend to sound rude or anything mexi, so I hope you didn't take it that way. But I do feel strongly that the belief that CPTSD & BPD are the same is incorrect. Mia > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > doesn't look promising. > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > Mia > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I was going to mention this too. Back before I moved out of state (about 4 - 5 years ago) I was at a very very low point. I won't get into all the issues I was having at the time, but I had started seeing the therapist I had in that state. She told me that I had CPTSD. Well, given the types of flashbacks I was having at the time, I told my husband " I think you should take me to the hospital. I really feel like I should just die " . Of course I ended up in a psychiatric facility for about 3 days. The psychiatrist there told me he thought I had BPD. I knew a little about BPD at that time, but not a lot and did not know my nada was likely suffering from BPD. I told him, " My therapist & psychiatrist think I have complex PTSD " . He said " same thing " . It did trouble me enough at the time that I did tell both my T & Pdoc about it when I got out. My T at that time even said the same thing, " no you don't fit the criteria for BPD " . Again, my Pdoc said the same thing. It was that T who helped me realize that it was my nada who was BPD. That's when I started reading about it and educating myself more on PTSD & CPTSD. So I do know first hand that that belief is out there, like I said, different people have different opinions. Like Annie said, yes there is some overlap in some traits, but then again these traits are human traits. Also, the thing with a lot of mental illness, there is so much overlap with many conditions. Again, I sure did not intend to sound rude or anything mexi, so I hope you didn't take it that way. But I do feel strongly that the belief that CPTSD & BPD are the same is incorrect. Mia > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > doesn't look promising. > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > Mia > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes, its confusing. I *think* they're not entirely removing npd, its that there will be a thing called " personality disorder with narcissistic features " as an option. Instead of separate, distinct disorders it will be more like an a la carte menu, and the psychiatrist goes down a checklist of symptoms and rates their frequency and intensity. I personally will not be a happy camper if narcissitic pd is totally excised from the new DSM. Unless, perhaps they're planning to refer to it as " psychopathy lite " , which I think would be equally valid. -Annie > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > doesn't look promising. > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes, its confusing. I *think* they're not entirely removing npd, its that there will be a thing called " personality disorder with narcissistic features " as an option. Instead of separate, distinct disorders it will be more like an a la carte menu, and the psychiatrist goes down a checklist of symptoms and rates their frequency and intensity. I personally will not be a happy camper if narcissitic pd is totally excised from the new DSM. Unless, perhaps they're planning to refer to it as " psychopathy lite " , which I think would be equally valid. -Annie > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > doesn't look promising. > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Yes, its confusing. I *think* they're not entirely removing npd, its that there will be a thing called " personality disorder with narcissistic features " as an option. Instead of separate, distinct disorders it will be more like an a la carte menu, and the psychiatrist goes down a checklist of symptoms and rates their frequency and intensity. I personally will not be a happy camper if narcissitic pd is totally excised from the new DSM. Unless, perhaps they're planning to refer to it as " psychopathy lite " , which I think would be equally valid. -Annie > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > doesn't look promising. > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Here is a blog post from Randi Kreger from SWOE that points this out... http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201012/end-narcis > > > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > > doesn't look promising. > > > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Here is a blog post from Randi Kreger from SWOE that points this out... http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201012/end-narcis > > > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > > doesn't look promising. > > > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Sorry.... here is the correct link: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201012/end-narcis sistic-personality-disorder-in-dsm-5 > > > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > > doesn't look promising. > > > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Sorry.... here is the correct link: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201012/end-narcis sistic-personality-disorder-in-dsm-5 > > > > I wish they would add it, Annie. Though from what I've been reading it > > doesn't look promising. > > > > I also read they are taking out narcissism as well as 3 other PDs. I think > > taking out narcissism is a mistake =( > > > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks for the link grewels, very interesting. I happen to share Randi's line of thinking. I like what she said, " While you can take NPD out of the DSM, you can't as easily take NPD out of the people who have it. " Very very true. Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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