Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 well said, mike jim davis see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes someone happy!!! Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic wrote: > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have > to be profitable. Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit, yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the long run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 well said, mike jim davis see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes someone happy!!! Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic wrote: > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have > to be profitable. Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit, yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the long run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 well said, mike jim davis see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes someone happy!!! Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic wrote: > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have > to be profitable. Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit, yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the long run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Profit & Value You can have both. The value of an EMS system is the ability to provide services and operate either at the break even line or profit line. The challenge to provide a quality service with revenues or a combination of revenue sources is imperative. The tax pie for a public entity is cut so many ways that if one department continues to take to much of the pie all services will hurt. If you are paying taxes what do they pay for? How much do you know about your local government's financials? Where does the money go? And at what point does EMS cost too much? Unfortunately, in our society life does come at a price. What is the value of a life? There are price tags and one such price tag is the amount of life insurance you have. If you only have a life insurance policy of $25,000 dollars is that all your life is worth? EMS is a business. You can choose to believe it or not, that is up to the individual. It cost real money to operate any level of EMS agency. Why is because many EMS agencies bill for their services. They negotiate for payments or for contracts. It has become a business because the opportunities to collect revenue exist. This has influenced both the private and public sectors. The Feds bailed on EMS in the late 70's and early 80's and EMS has not seen any reasonable funding levels since. EMS became an unfunded program. Today in EMS you must work to compete for dollars. Does your community know who you are? How important is your agency to the community? Does the community want to pay more in taxes? Answer these questions and you will know the value of your service. R.Jennings, EMS Chief Re: turning a profit well said, mike jim davis see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes someone happy!!! Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic wrote: > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have > to be profitable. Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit, yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the long run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 This is why I kept telling Rob that many of his EMS services are now or will be doing transfers to make ends meet, thus his argument about 911 and transfer companies was useless. I used to work for a city service that provided 2 911 and 2 transfer trucks. 911 does not pay and therefore a city will go bankrupt if EMS runs in the red all the time. This is why alot of cities turn to private companies to provide 911. Unfortunately they choose the lowest bidder instead of the best qualified bidder. The bad part is when the providers do not add more trucks to do transfers and end up hurting their 911 response. Why? There's supervisor trucks and firefighters to first respond. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-Paramedic --- Ray Jennings wrote: > Profit & Value > > You can have both. The value of an EMS system is > the ability to provide > services and operate either at the break even line > or profit line. The > challenge to provide a quality service with revenues > or a combination of > revenue sources is imperative. The tax pie for a > public entity is cut so > many ways that if one department continues to take > to much of the pie all > services will hurt. > > If you are paying taxes what do they pay for? How > much do you know about > your local government's financials? Where does the > money go? And at what > point does EMS cost too much? Unfortunately, in our > society life does come > at a price. What is the value of a life? There are > price tags and one such > price tag is the amount of life insurance you have. > If you only have a life > insurance policy of $25,000 dollars is that all your > life is worth? > > EMS is a business. You can choose to believe it or > not, that is up to the > individual. It cost real money to operate any level > of EMS agency. Why is > because many EMS agencies bill for their services. > They negotiate for > payments or for contracts. It has become a business > because the > opportunities to collect revenue exist. This has > influenced both the > private and public sectors. The Feds bailed on EMS > in the late 70's and > early 80's and EMS has not seen any reasonable > funding levels since. EMS > became an unfunded program. > > Today in EMS you must work to compete for dollars. > Does your community know > who you are? How important is your agency to the > community? Does the > community want to pay more in taxes? Answer these > questions and you will > know the value of your service. > > R.Jennings, > EMS Chief > > Re: turning a profit > > well said, mike > > jim davis > > see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes > someone happy!!! > > Mike wrote: On > 1/1/06, sstephensmedic > wrote: > > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them > at some point have > > to be profitable. > > Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the > red. There may be > cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a > break-even challenge, but > not everyone has to profit. My streets department > makes no profit, > yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good > streets. Same with > EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want > them to focus on > the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's > what I pay taxes for > - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene > financials sheet that > shows that organization running in the black. In > fact, if that's the > case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax > money isn't being spent > on management to get that service in the black, > rather than patient > care and employee satisfaction that gives me better > service in the > long run. > > Mike > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 This is why I kept telling Rob that many of his EMS services are now or will be doing transfers to make ends meet, thus his argument about 911 and transfer companies was useless. I used to work for a city service that provided 2 911 and 2 transfer trucks. 911 does not pay and therefore a city will go bankrupt if EMS runs in the red all the time. This is why alot of cities turn to private companies to provide 911. Unfortunately they choose the lowest bidder instead of the best qualified bidder. The bad part is when the providers do not add more trucks to do transfers and end up hurting their 911 response. Why? There's supervisor trucks and firefighters to first respond. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-Paramedic --- Ray Jennings wrote: > Profit & Value > > You can have both. The value of an EMS system is > the ability to provide > services and operate either at the break even line > or profit line. The > challenge to provide a quality service with revenues > or a combination of > revenue sources is imperative. The tax pie for a > public entity is cut so > many ways that if one department continues to take > to much of the pie all > services will hurt. > > If you are paying taxes what do they pay for? How > much do you know about > your local government's financials? Where does the > money go? And at what > point does EMS cost too much? Unfortunately, in our > society life does come > at a price. What is the value of a life? There are > price tags and one such > price tag is the amount of life insurance you have. > If you only have a life > insurance policy of $25,000 dollars is that all your > life is worth? > > EMS is a business. You can choose to believe it or > not, that is up to the > individual. It cost real money to operate any level > of EMS agency. Why is > because many EMS agencies bill for their services. > They negotiate for > payments or for contracts. It has become a business > because the > opportunities to collect revenue exist. This has > influenced both the > private and public sectors. The Feds bailed on EMS > in the late 70's and > early 80's and EMS has not seen any reasonable > funding levels since. EMS > became an unfunded program. > > Today in EMS you must work to compete for dollars. > Does your community know > who you are? How important is your agency to the > community? Does the > community want to pay more in taxes? Answer these > questions and you will > know the value of your service. > > R.Jennings, > EMS Chief > > Re: turning a profit > > well said, mike > > jim davis > > see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes > someone happy!!! > > Mike wrote: On > 1/1/06, sstephensmedic > wrote: > > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them > at some point have > > to be profitable. > > Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the > red. There may be > cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a > break-even challenge, but > not everyone has to profit. My streets department > makes no profit, > yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good > streets. Same with > EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want > them to focus on > the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's > what I pay taxes for > - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene > financials sheet that > shows that organization running in the black. In > fact, if that's the > case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax > money isn't being spent > on management to get that service in the black, > rather than patient > care and employee satisfaction that gives me better > service in the > long run. > > Mike > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 This is why I kept telling Rob that many of his EMS services are now or will be doing transfers to make ends meet, thus his argument about 911 and transfer companies was useless. I used to work for a city service that provided 2 911 and 2 transfer trucks. 911 does not pay and therefore a city will go bankrupt if EMS runs in the red all the time. This is why alot of cities turn to private companies to provide 911. Unfortunately they choose the lowest bidder instead of the best qualified bidder. The bad part is when the providers do not add more trucks to do transfers and end up hurting their 911 response. Why? There's supervisor trucks and firefighters to first respond. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-Paramedic --- Ray Jennings wrote: > Profit & Value > > You can have both. The value of an EMS system is > the ability to provide > services and operate either at the break even line > or profit line. The > challenge to provide a quality service with revenues > or a combination of > revenue sources is imperative. The tax pie for a > public entity is cut so > many ways that if one department continues to take > to much of the pie all > services will hurt. > > If you are paying taxes what do they pay for? How > much do you know about > your local government's financials? Where does the > money go? And at what > point does EMS cost too much? Unfortunately, in our > society life does come > at a price. What is the value of a life? There are > price tags and one such > price tag is the amount of life insurance you have. > If you only have a life > insurance policy of $25,000 dollars is that all your > life is worth? > > EMS is a business. You can choose to believe it or > not, that is up to the > individual. It cost real money to operate any level > of EMS agency. Why is > because many EMS agencies bill for their services. > They negotiate for > payments or for contracts. It has become a business > because the > opportunities to collect revenue exist. This has > influenced both the > private and public sectors. The Feds bailed on EMS > in the late 70's and > early 80's and EMS has not seen any reasonable > funding levels since. EMS > became an unfunded program. > > Today in EMS you must work to compete for dollars. > Does your community know > who you are? How important is your agency to the > community? Does the > community want to pay more in taxes? Answer these > questions and you will > know the value of your service. > > R.Jennings, > EMS Chief > > Re: turning a profit > > well said, mike > > jim davis > > see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes > someone happy!!! > > Mike wrote: On > 1/1/06, sstephensmedic > wrote: > > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them > at some point have > > to be profitable. > > Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the > red. There may be > cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a > break-even challenge, but > not everyone has to profit. My streets department > makes no profit, > yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good > streets. Same with > EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want > them to focus on > the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's > what I pay taxes for > - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene > financials sheet that > shows that organization running in the black. In > fact, if that's the > case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax > money isn't being spent > on management to get that service in the black, > rather than patient > care and employee satisfaction that gives me better > service in the > long run. > > Mike > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 > 911 does not pay and therefore a city will go bankrupt > if EMS runs in the red all the time. This is why alot > of cities turn to private companies to provide 911. Sal - Don't be an idiot. A city will not go bankrupt. The city BUDGETS EMS to be a " red " venture - just like most other city services. It's just staying on BUDGET that matters. You can do 911 only and not go bankrupt, not make a profit, and still be within budget. The reason governmental agencies turn to private EMS is the lure of a smaller budget for EMS. Rather than fund a service, and use billing revenue to increase the service level, they fund a stipend and let the private contractor worry about how to make ends meet... a la the private services constantly dying and pulling out of contracts they're in. Some privates can make do, but I wager than NONE of them could EVER run on 911 alone. Many, many cities run EMS on 911 alone and don't go bankrupt... they just never make a profit and chalk up the expense of a good EMS system to quality of life - like libraries, parks, etc. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 > 911 does not pay and therefore a city will go bankrupt > if EMS runs in the red all the time. This is why alot > of cities turn to private companies to provide 911. Sal - Don't be an idiot. A city will not go bankrupt. The city BUDGETS EMS to be a " red " venture - just like most other city services. It's just staying on BUDGET that matters. You can do 911 only and not go bankrupt, not make a profit, and still be within budget. The reason governmental agencies turn to private EMS is the lure of a smaller budget for EMS. Rather than fund a service, and use billing revenue to increase the service level, they fund a stipend and let the private contractor worry about how to make ends meet... a la the private services constantly dying and pulling out of contracts they're in. Some privates can make do, but I wager than NONE of them could EVER run on 911 alone. Many, many cities run EMS on 911 alone and don't go bankrupt... they just never make a profit and chalk up the expense of a good EMS system to quality of life - like libraries, parks, etc. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 > 911 does not pay and therefore a city will go bankrupt > if EMS runs in the red all the time. This is why alot > of cities turn to private companies to provide 911. Sal - Don't be an idiot. A city will not go bankrupt. The city BUDGETS EMS to be a " red " venture - just like most other city services. It's just staying on BUDGET that matters. You can do 911 only and not go bankrupt, not make a profit, and still be within budget. The reason governmental agencies turn to private EMS is the lure of a smaller budget for EMS. Rather than fund a service, and use billing revenue to increase the service level, they fund a stipend and let the private contractor worry about how to make ends meet... a la the private services constantly dying and pulling out of contracts they're in. Some privates can make do, but I wager than NONE of them could EVER run on 911 alone. Many, many cities run EMS on 911 alone and don't go bankrupt... they just never make a profit and chalk up the expense of a good EMS system to quality of life - like libraries, parks, etc. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well Said, thanks Ray Jennings wrote: Profit & Value You can have both. The value of an EMS system is the ability to provide services and operate either at the break even line or profit line. The challenge to provide a quality service with revenues or a combination of revenue sources is imperative. The tax pie for a public entity is cut so many ways that if one department continues to take to much of the pie all services will hurt. If you are paying taxes what do they pay for? How much do you know about your local government's financials? Where does the money go? And at what point does EMS cost too much? Unfortunately, in our society life does come at a price. What is the value of a life? There are price tags and one such price tag is the amount of life insurance you have. If you only have a life insurance policy of $25,000 dollars is that all your life is worth? EMS is a business. You can choose to believe it or not, that is up to the individual. It cost real money to operate any level of EMS agency. Why is because many EMS agencies bill for their services. They negotiate for payments or for contracts. It has become a business because the opportunities to collect revenue exist. This has influenced both the private and public sectors. The Feds bailed on EMS in the late 70's and early 80's and EMS has not seen any reasonable funding levels since. EMS became an unfunded program. Today in EMS you must work to compete for dollars. Does your community know who you are? How important is your agency to the community? Does the community want to pay more in taxes? Answer these questions and you will know the value of your service. R.Jennings, EMS Chief Re: turning a profit well said, mike jim davis see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes someone happy!!! Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic wrote: > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have > to be profitable. Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit, yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the long run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well Said, thanks Ray Jennings wrote: Profit & Value You can have both. The value of an EMS system is the ability to provide services and operate either at the break even line or profit line. The challenge to provide a quality service with revenues or a combination of revenue sources is imperative. The tax pie for a public entity is cut so many ways that if one department continues to take to much of the pie all services will hurt. If you are paying taxes what do they pay for? How much do you know about your local government's financials? Where does the money go? And at what point does EMS cost too much? Unfortunately, in our society life does come at a price. What is the value of a life? There are price tags and one such price tag is the amount of life insurance you have. If you only have a life insurance policy of $25,000 dollars is that all your life is worth? EMS is a business. You can choose to believe it or not, that is up to the individual. It cost real money to operate any level of EMS agency. Why is because many EMS agencies bill for their services. They negotiate for payments or for contracts. It has become a business because the opportunities to collect revenue exist. This has influenced both the private and public sectors. The Feds bailed on EMS in the late 70's and early 80's and EMS has not seen any reasonable funding levels since. EMS became an unfunded program. Today in EMS you must work to compete for dollars. Does your community know who you are? How important is your agency to the community? Does the community want to pay more in taxes? Answer these questions and you will know the value of your service. R.Jennings, EMS Chief Re: turning a profit well said, mike jim davis see i changed the subject line... i hope that makes someone happy!!! Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic wrote: > any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have > to be profitable. Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit, yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for - not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the long run. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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