RE: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

January 8, 2006

Anything less than $20/hr is disgusting and time for the Govt. to take over the

amb. service, utilize a user fee and supplement the service with an adequate

billing program. If necessary, implement a Fire/EMS tax, UGH!, did I say tax?

Yes, that may be a necessary evil in order to bring EMS up to today's standards.

Larry

January 8, 2006

Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all know

it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

> Sal

> I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> pay my guys the

> whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I would

> love to pay my

> guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> small private

> service with what I feel is quality equipment

> LP12's,Stryker

> Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> reimbursement rates

> from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> are...I know of

> many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but reduce

> the dollar

> amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda chicken

> S^$%T to me but

> it happens....

>

> > >

> > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid as

> it

> > > is,

> > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> you

> > > got

> > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > understand.

> > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> from

> > > your

> > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from your

> pay,

> > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

January 8, 2006

my employer pays the 24 hour shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

period. they say we are on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the fire

station floors and DOL agreed with them

vince

salvador capuchino wrote:

Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all know

it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

> Sal

> I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> pay my guys the

> whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I would

> love to pay my

> guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> small private

> service with what I feel is quality equipment

> LP12's,Stryker

> Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> reimbursement rates

> from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> are...I know of

> many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but reduce

> the dollar

> amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda chicken

> S^$%T to me but

> it happens....

>

> > >

> > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid as

> it

> > > is,

> > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> you

> > > got

> > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > understand.

> > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> from

> > > your

> > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from your

> pay,

> > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

January 8, 2006

There are a few of us still out here that do. With sleep time OT, (no

additional shifts) 1st year paramedics are at about 36k and 5 year

paramedics are at about 49k.

That compares, and in many cases, is above other area services who are doing

24/48 with OT over 40.

We ARE looking at changing this, but it's not as simple as paying all hours

over 40 as OT. With the existing hourly rates, 1st year paramedics would be

about 50k. nice, but not realistic for our area.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of salvador capuchino

Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:44 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all know

it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

_____

January 9, 2006

The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are now considered " fire

suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny Denson

Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some more. When I was with

Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and fire exemptions and

discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither applies to EMS and we were

paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a part of the fire

department, you must put in a small percentage of your time (I think that it

is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

vince siters wrote: my employer pays the 24 hour

shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work period. they say we are

on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the fire station floors and

DOL agreed with them

vince

salvador capuchino wrote:

Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all know

it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

> Sal

> I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> pay my guys the

> whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I would

> love to pay my

> guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> small private

> service with what I feel is quality equipment

> LP12's,Stryker

> Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> reimbursement rates

> from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> are...I know of

> many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but reduce

> the dollar

> amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda chicken

> S^$%T to me but

> it happens....

>

> > >

> > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid as

> it

> > > is,

> > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> you

> > > got

> > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > understand.

> > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> from

> > > your

> > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from your

> pay,

> > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

January 9, 2006

well according to the DOL which has looked into this twice. the employer told

the DOL that we have fire extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes us

fire fighters and has told the DOL that every time a fire truck goes on a call

an ems unit follows which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for the

employee..our service is now cross training but i am not slated for academy

until may 2006 with an online course..

vince

Jack Pitcock wrote:

The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are now considered " fire

suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny Denson

Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some more. When I was with

Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and fire exemptions and

discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither applies to EMS and we were

paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a part of the fire

department, you must put in a small percentage of your time (I think that it

is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

vince siters wrote: my employer pays the 24 hour

shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work period. they say we are

on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the fire station floors and

DOL agreed with them

vince

salvador capuchino wrote:

Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all know

it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

> Sal

> I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> pay my guys the

> whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I would

> love to pay my

> guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> small private

> service with what I feel is quality equipment

> LP12's,Stryker

> Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> reimbursement rates

> from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> are...I know of

> many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but reduce

> the dollar

> amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda chicken

> S^$%T to me but

> it happens....

>

> > >

> > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid as

> it

> > > is,

> > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> you

> > > got

> > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > understand.

> > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> from

> > > your

> > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from your

> pay,

> > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

January 9, 2006

well according to the DOL which has looked into this twice. the employer told

the DOL that we have fire extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes us

fire fighters and has told the DOL that every time a fire truck goes on a call

an ems unit follows which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for the

employee..our service is now cross training but i am not slated for academy

until may 2006 with an online course..

vince

Jack Pitcock wrote:

The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are now considered " fire

suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny Denson

Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some more. When I was with

Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and fire exemptions and

discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither applies to EMS and we were

paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a part of the fire

department, you must put in a small percentage of your time (I think that it

is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

vince siters wrote: my employer pays the 24 hour

shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work period. they say we are

on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the fire station floors and

DOL agreed with them

vince

salvador capuchino wrote:

Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all know

it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- mwest2604 wrote:

> Sal

> I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> pay my guys the

> whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I would

> love to pay my

> guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> small private

> service with what I feel is quality equipment

> LP12's,Stryker

> Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> reimbursement rates

> from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> are...I know of

> many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but reduce

> the dollar

> amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda chicken

> S^$%T to me but

> it happens....

>

> > >

> > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid as

> it

> > > is,

> > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> you

> > > got

> > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > understand.

> > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> from

> > > your

> > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from your

> pay,

> > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

January 9, 2006

So I guess truck drivers are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 9, 2006

So I guess truck drivers are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 9, 2006

So I guess truck drivers are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 9, 2006

did you actually SEE (with your eyeballs and corrective lenses if applicable)

the letter or whatever from the DOL explaining the rationale behind their

decision? or is it just soemthing that you were told " the DOL looked into this

and they said.... " ?

jim davis

salvador capuchino wrote: So I guess truck drivers

are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 9, 2006

did you actually SEE (with your eyeballs and corrective lenses if applicable)

the letter or whatever from the DOL explaining the rationale behind their

decision? or is it just soemthing that you were told " the DOL looked into this

and they said.... " ?

jim davis

salvador capuchino wrote: So I guess truck drivers

are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 9, 2006

did you actually SEE (with your eyeballs and corrective lenses if applicable)

the letter or whatever from the DOL explaining the rationale behind their

decision? or is it just soemthing that you were told " the DOL looked into this

and they said.... " ?

jim davis

salvador capuchino wrote: So I guess truck drivers

are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 10, 2006

There had to be more to it than the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

There had to be more to it than the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

There had to be more to it than the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

If they are part of the FD, EMS activities are now considered " Fire "

activities.. So even a response to a sick call is considered a 'Fire'

activity.

Those rules were changed around 2000.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Hatfield

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:40 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

There had to be more to it than the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

If they are part of the FD, EMS activities are now considered " Fire "

activities.. So even a response to a sick call is considered a 'Fire'

activity.

Those rules were changed around 2000.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Hatfield

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:40 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

There had to be more to it than the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

If they are part of the FD, EMS activities are now considered " Fire "

activities.. So even a response to a sick call is considered a 'Fire'

activity.

Those rules were changed around 2000.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Hatfield

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:40 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

There had to be more to it than the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

that was one fact then also the employer (city hall) said we have training in

the use of escape fire hoods , our fire chief said we dont and never had a

device in our service and we have never seen this device.our dept was changed

with TDH from a ems to fire and ems. we our to be cross trained by may 1 2006

for the interagtion start date...and those not cross trained will be let go..

Hatfield wrote: There had to be more to it than

the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

that was one fact then also the employer (city hall) said we have training in

the use of escape fire hoods , our fire chief said we dont and never had a

device in our service and we have never seen this device.our dept was changed

with TDH from a ems to fire and ems. we our to be cross trained by may 1 2006

for the interagtion start date...and those not cross trained will be let go..

Hatfield wrote: There had to be more to it than

the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

that was one fact then also the employer (city hall) said we have training in

the use of escape fire hoods , our fire chief said we dont and never had a

device in our service and we have never seen this device.our dept was changed

with TDH from a ems to fire and ems. we our to be cross trained by may 1 2006

for the interagtion start date...and those not cross trained will be let go..

Hatfield wrote: There had to be more to it than

the fact that the EMS unit had a fire

extinguisher on it. As you said that your department was 'cross training',

it makes me believe that you are already part of a FD, the issues become a

lot more grey there.

There are, as has been pointed out, some percentage ratios that must be

met in order to lump EMS into the 7K exemption that FF's and PD are in for

overtime. The fact that your EMS unit responds to fire calls may well play

into it some, but that's not the entire thing.

If you do some studying and research, you can actually sit down and see if

in fact you fit the exemption criteria, if you don't, document, document,

document, and go back to the DOL and show them what you have.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> --- vince siters wrote:

>

> > well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> > twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> > extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> > us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> > time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> > which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> > the employee..our service is now cross training but

> > i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> > online course..

> > vince

> >

> > Jack Pitcock wrote:

> > The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> > now considered & quot;fire

> > suppression activities & quot; if you are cross trained.

> >

> > jack

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of Danny Denson

> > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> > To:

> > Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> > Deductions

> >

> > Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> > more. When I was with

> > Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> > fire exemptions and

> > discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> > applies to EMS and we were

> > paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> > part of the fire

> > department, you must put in a small percentage of

> > your time (I think that it

> > is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

> >

> > vince siters wrote: my

> > employer pays the 24 hour

> > shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> > period. they say we are

> > on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> > fire station floors and

> > DOL agreed with them

> >

> > vince

> >

> > salvador capuchino wrote:

> > Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> > know

> > it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> > competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> > company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> > Salvador Capuchino Jr

> > EMT-P

> >

> > --- mwest2604 wrote:

> >

> > > Sal

> > > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > > pay my guys the

> > > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> > would

> > > love to pay my

> > > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > > small private

> > > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > > LP12's,Stryker

> > > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > > reimbursement rates

> > > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > > are...I know of

> > > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> > reduce

> > > the dollar

> > > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> > chicken

> > > S^$%T to me but

> > > it happens....

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is,

> > > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > > you

> > > > > got

> > > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > > understand.

> > > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > > from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> > your

> > > pay,

> > > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > > removed]

> > > > > >

January 10, 2006

yes i have seen the paper work from the DOL....and have talked to them about it

talked to the austin divison and the area supervisor from san antonio...the

employer was cited with inaccuarate record keeping and pay issues from part

timers in both cases the DOL looked into within a year, the employer never had

to pay a fine..

that s the same way i feel about truck drivers puts the thought that PEC

persons have a first aid kit and fire extinguishers so they not only

electricains but ems and fire...

james davis wrote:

did you actually SEE (with your eyeballs and corrective lenses if applicable)

the letter or whatever from the DOL explaining the rationale behind their

decision? or is it just soemthing that you were told " the DOL looked into this

and they said.... " ?

jim davis

salvador capuchino wrote: So I guess truck drivers

are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 10, 2006

yes i have seen the paper work from the DOL....and have talked to them about it

talked to the austin divison and the area supervisor from san antonio...the

employer was cited with inaccuarate record keeping and pay issues from part

timers in both cases the DOL looked into within a year, the employer never had

to pay a fine..

that s the same way i feel about truck drivers puts the thought that PEC

persons have a first aid kit and fire extinguishers so they not only

electricains but ems and fire...

james davis wrote:

did you actually SEE (with your eyeballs and corrective lenses if applicable)

the letter or whatever from the DOL explaining the rationale behind their

decision? or is it just soemthing that you were told " the DOL looked into this

and they said.... " ?

jim davis

salvador capuchino wrote: So I guess truck drivers

are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

January 10, 2006

yes i have seen the paper work from the DOL....and have talked to them about it

talked to the austin divison and the area supervisor from san antonio...the

employer was cited with inaccuarate record keeping and pay issues from part

timers in both cases the DOL looked into within a year, the employer never had

to pay a fine..

that s the same way i feel about truck drivers puts the thought that PEC

persons have a first aid kit and fire extinguishers so they not only

electricains but ems and fire...

james davis wrote:

did you actually SEE (with your eyeballs and corrective lenses if applicable)

the letter or whatever from the DOL explaining the rationale behind their

decision? or is it just soemthing that you were told " the DOL looked into this

and they said.... " ?

jim davis

salvador capuchino wrote: So I guess truck drivers

are firefighters too because

they carry fire extinguishers too?

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- vince siters wrote:

> well according to the DOL which has looked into this

> twice. the employer told the DOL that we have fire

> extinguishers (spelling)on the ems unit which makes

> us fire fighters and has told the DOL that every

> time a fire truck goes on a call an ems unit follows

> which an ems unit rarely does.but the DOL is not for

> the employee..our service is now cross training but

> i am not slated for academy until may 2006 with an

> online course..

> vince

>

> Jack Pitcock wrote:

> The latest changes with DOL. EMS activities are

> now considered " fire

> suppression activities " if you are cross trained.

>

> jack

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of Danny Denson

> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:33 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Re: Meal and Sleep

> Deductions

>

> Vince, you may want to research this with DOL some

> more. When I was with

> Austin/ Co. EMS, we look into the police and

> fire exemptions and

> discovered the by the letter of the rule, neither

> applies to EMS and we were

> paid some nice back OT pay. Even if your EMS is a

> part of the fire

> department, you must put in a small percentage of

> your time (I think that it

> is 20%) performing fire suppression activities.

>

> vince siters wrote: my

> employer pays the 24 hour

> shift but has us on a 106 hours for a two week work

> period. they say we are

> on a firefighter pay schedule because we mop the

> fire station floors and

> DOL agreed with them

>

> vince

>

> salvador capuchino wrote:

> Well that's good to hear. As for the pay, we all

> know

> it's wishful thinking as long as the pay is

> competetive. I still can't believe that there is a

> company that still pays 16 out of the 24.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- mwest2604 wrote:

>

> > Sal

> > I agree with you on the paid 24 hour shifts, and I

> > pay my guys the

> > whole 24hr shift. On the $15-$20hr pay issue I

> would

> > love to pay my

> > guys that rate, THEY DESERVE IT!! However being a

> > small private

> > service with what I feel is quality equipment

> > LP12's,Stryker

> > Stretchers, Ect ,that is impossible with the

> > reimbursement rates

> > from Medicare and especially Medicaid at what they

> > are...I know of

> > many services that will pay 24 hr shifts but

> reduce

> > the dollar

> > amount if you work 24 vs 12 hr shifts kinda

> chicken

> > S^$%T to me but

> > it happens....

> >

> > > >

> > > > > Considering the fact that EMS is underpaid

> as

> > it

> > > > is,

> > > > > why would we even deduct 8 hrs for sleep. If

> > you

> > > > got

> > > > > to sleep in your own bed for 8 hrs I could

> > > > > understand.

> > > > > If it is required that you have to be away

> > from

> > > > your

> > > > > home those 8 hrs and it is deducted from

> your

> > pay,

> > > > > they are ripping you off.

> > > > > Just my 2 cents worth

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > > removed]

> > > > >

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RE: Re: Meal and Sleep Deductions

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