Re: Professionals or Proletarians

[Guest guest]

Very well said Dr. . I agree with you 100%

[Guest guest]

Very well said Dr. . I agree with you 100%

[Guest guest]

Very well said Dr. . I agree with you 100%

[Guest guest]

I'd almost join Dr. in joining the ranks of those leaving the Texas

EMS list. However, the list has degenerated into an online version of a Jerry

Springer show -- and those fights are sickeningly entertaining.

I'll just say that when we ask why EMS is not taken seriously or paid as

such, we should only look to some of the posts (and members) on this list.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:13:58 PM Central Standard Time,

miller@... writes:

Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.

Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for intelligent communication

I have been an emergency department director for 30 years and an EMS medical

director since 1976. I currently direct 12 EMS organizations (about 1/3

Fire / county / city, 1/3 volunteer, and 1/3 private) with close to 300

paramedics practicing under my license. I have had the privilege to work

with some of the best, highly motivated, kind, compassionate, ethical,

competent and professional paramedics & EMTs in the world. These emergency

medical professionals are my heroes.

I joined the EMS Discussion list hosted by the Texas EMS Foundation a couple

of years ago to participate, kept abreast of current practices around the

State, learn new viewpoints and share some of my 30 years experiences with

others. In the past 30 days I have witnessed a very dark side of EMS.

Watching these threads I have seen some of the most rude, hateful,

sarcastic, uncaring, ignorant, unprofessional and crude behavior of my

entire emergency medicine career. These so-called paramedics are not worthy

of our trust or our confidence and should not be considered colleagues.

They deserve no respect and only serve to destroy our profession.

Over the past 30 years I have had to discipline a number of paramedics and

have had to de-certify about a dozen with the State for grievous behavior.

At no time were any of these actions necessary for mistakes (we all make

mistakes) or lack of knowledge (we can all learn), but were 100 percent for

bad attitudes, unethical behavior such as deliberately harming a patient,

insobriety, judgment errors or lying. These are essential elements that you

cannot teach. You either have them or you don¹t. These are the attributes

that make up your character and prepare you for the riggers of emergency

medicine. They dictate your actions when you are confronted by the

unexpected and by life-and-death situations. These are the moral, ethical

and value systems that you learn at your mother¹s knee by age 5.

Obviously some members of this EMS list have never learned any of those

values, which define a great paramedic. I realize that 95 percent of

participants on this list are the kind, compassionate, professionals that we

medical directors are proud to have practice under our license. The ones we

can trust to carry out our mission and the mission of our organizations.

However the despicable 5 percent that have desecrated any semblance of

reason and professionalism on this list have turned it into a site of hate

and debauchery.

The very fact that someone has to take a pole to determine what defines

professional behavior illustrates the futility of ³teaching pigs to sing².

If you don¹t know the answer to the question, ³Am I acting in a professional

way?² then you don¹t have the capacity to comprehend the essential

requirements. Questions such as if profanity should be used, if it is all

right to resort to personal attacks or violate the ³rules of engagement² of

this list, are all side issues that evade the central premise of

professionalism in emergency medicine. Professionalism always comprises,

higher standards, continuous learning, competence, discipline (ethics),

wisdom (maturity) and the right attitude.

Smear attacks against the ethics of private EMS organizations that provide

50 percent of the 911 care in this country (according to JEMS 2005),

proclamations that certain organizations are just in it for the money, that

those who participate in transports are not part of EMS, accusations against

flight paramedics and their organizations, sarcasm and profanity against

those concerned about public image are all indications of the depths these

exchanges have taken.

We professionals live in a fish bowl and everything we say and do is subject

to public scrutiny. All statements and responses sent to this list are

shared with others interested in EMS. We should never say anything in this

list (or in any other public venue) that we would not be proud to say

publicly in a ³town meeting², in front of hospital administrators, medical

directors, State EMS officials, patients, or in a high school class room.

This is not an X rated site. It is a public professional site dedicated to

discussion of important issues related to the practice of emergency

medicine.

We have been taught to treat our patients and our other customers (hospital

administrators, doctors, nurses) with respect, kindness and dignity. We are

not less obligated to treat each other with the same respect and kindness

because we are blood brothers and sisters.

Attitude and communication with your fellow paramedics (and medical

directors) reflects your character and the way you treat patients. You

cannot be snotty, rude, vulgar and unprofessional with your colleagues and

then suddenly change your character to be nice, competent, caring and

professional with patients in your practice of emergency medicine.

To the perpetrators of hate, cynicism, and filth I pray you will recognize

that you do not have the character or attributes to be members of the EMS

community and will get out now. We don¹t need your filth and garbage in

this profession. Your actions prove you are not worthy to be emergency

medical professionals. I strongly suggest you get a trade where you do not

have to deal with patients or maintain the trust of your medical directors

and work with colleagues in treating life and death situations. Find an X

rated site to indulge your depravity.

To the rest of you (the 95 percent of wonderful and kind paramedics and

medical directors) I wish you the best now and in the years to come. Have

the courage to cleanse our profession of corruption and raise the level of

quality care in the process.

This list has turned into a dialogue that I am ashamed to be a part of.

Those of you who have known me over the years and would like to communicate

with me & shy; know how to get in touch with me. I am always delighted to

speak

with you 24 hours a day.

Best regards,

Larry MD

[Guest guest]

Dr

I Apologize if I offended you or anyone on this site, that was not

my intent....

>

> Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.

>

> Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for intelligent

communication

>

> I have been an emergency department director for 30 years and an

EMS medical

> director since 1976. I currently direct 12 EMS organizations

(about 1/3

> Fire / county / city, 1/3 volunteer, and 1/3 private) with close

to 300

> paramedics practicing under my license. I have had the privilege

to work

> with some of the best, highly motivated, kind, compassionate,

ethical,

> competent and professional paramedics & EMTs in the world. These

emergency

> medical professionals are my heroes.

>

> I joined the EMS Discussion list hosted by the Texas EMS

Foundation a couple

> of years ago to participate, kept abreast of current practices

around the

> State, learn new viewpoints and share some of my 30 years

experiences with

> others. In the past 30 days I have witnessed a very dark side of

EMS.

> Watching these threads I have seen some of the most rude, hateful,

> sarcastic, uncaring, ignorant, unprofessional and crude behavior

of my

> entire emergency medicine career. These so-called paramedics are

not worthy

> of our trust or our confidence and should not be considered

colleagues.

> They deserve no respect and only serve to destroy our profession.

>

> Over the past 30 years I have had to discipline a number of

paramedics and

> have had to de-certify about a dozen with the State for grievous

behavior.

> At no time were any of these actions necessary for mistakes (we

all make

> mistakes) or lack of knowledge (we can all learn), but were 100

percent for

> bad attitudes, unethical behavior such as deliberately harming a

patient,

> insobriety, judgment errors or lying. These are essential

elements that you

> cannot teach. You either have them or you don¹t. These are the

attributes

> that make up your character and prepare you for the riggers of

emergency

> medicine. They dictate your actions when you are confronted by the

> unexpected and by life-and-death situations. These are the moral,

ethical

> and value systems that you learn at your mother¹s knee by age 5.

>

> Obviously some members of this EMS list have never learned any of

those

> values, which define a great paramedic. I realize that 95 percent

of

> participants on this list are the kind, compassionate,

professionals that we

> medical directors are proud to have practice under our license.

The ones we

> can trust to carry out our mission and the mission of our

organizations.

> However the despicable 5 percent that have desecrated any

semblance of

> reason and professionalism on this list have turned it into a site

of hate

> and debauchery.

>

> The very fact that someone has to take a pole to determine what

defines

> professional behavior illustrates the futility of ³teaching pigs

to sing².

> If you don¹t know the answer to the question, ³Am I acting in a

professional

> way?² then you don¹t have the capacity to comprehend the essential

> requirements. Questions such as if profanity should be used, if

it is all

> right to resort to personal attacks or violate the ³rules of

engagement² of

> this list, are all side issues that evade the central premise of

> professionalism in emergency medicine. Professionalism always

comprises,

> higher standards, continuous learning, competence, discipline

(ethics),

> wisdom (maturity) and the right attitude.

>

> Smear attacks against the ethics of private EMS organizations that

provide

> 50 percent of the 911 care in this country (according to JEMS

2005),

> proclamations that certain organizations are just in it for the

money, that

> those who participate in transports are not part of EMS,

accusations against

> flight paramedics and their organizations, sarcasm and profanity

against

> those concerned about public image are all indications of the

depths these

> exchanges have taken.

>

> We professionals live in a fish bowl and everything we say and do

is subject

> to public scrutiny. All statements and responses sent to this

list are

> shared with others interested in EMS. We should never say

anything in this

> list (or in any other public venue) that we would not be proud to

say

> publicly in a ³town meeting², in front of hospital administrators,

medical

> directors, State EMS officials, patients, or in a high school

class room.

> This is not an X rated site. It is a public professional site

dedicated to

> discussion of important issues related to the practice of emergency

> medicine.

>

> We have been taught to treat our patients and our other customers

(hospital

> administrators, doctors, nurses) with respect, kindness and

dignity. We are

> not less obligated to treat each other with the same respect and

kindness

> because we are blood brothers and sisters.

>

> Attitude and communication with your fellow paramedics (and medical

> directors) reflects your character and the way you treat patients.

You

> cannot be snotty, rude, vulgar and unprofessional with your

colleagues and

> then suddenly change your character to be nice, competent, caring

and

> professional with patients in your practice of emergency medicine.

>

> To the perpetrators of hate, cynicism, and filth I pray you will

recognize

> that you do not have the character or attributes to be members of

the EMS

> community and will get out now. We don¹t need your filth and

garbage in

> this profession. Your actions prove you are not worthy to be

emergency

> medical professionals. I strongly suggest you get a trade where

you do not

> have to deal with patients or maintain the trust of your medical

directors

> and work with colleagues in treating life and death situations.

Find an X

> rated site to indulge your depravity.

>

> To the rest of you (the 95 percent of wonderful and kind

paramedics and

> medical directors) I wish you the best now and in the years to

come. Have

> the courage to cleanse our profession of corruption and raise the

level of

> quality care in the process.

>

> This list has turned into a dialogue that I am ashamed to be a

part of.

> Those of you who have known me over the years and would like to

communicate

> with me ­ know how to get in touch with me. I am always delighted

to speak

> with you 24 hours a day.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Larry MD

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

opinions and your frustration.

Maxine Pate

---- Original message ----

Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

Subject: Professionals or

Proletarians

To: < >

>Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

strength.

>

>Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

intelligent communication

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

opinions and your frustration.

Maxine Pate

---- Original message ----

Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

Subject: Professionals or

Proletarians

To: < >

>Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

strength.

>

>Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

intelligent communication

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

opinions and your frustration.

Maxine Pate

---- Original message ----

Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

Subject: Professionals or

Proletarians

To: < >

>Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

strength.

>

>Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

intelligent communication

>

[Guest guest]

please remove me from email list.

thanks

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Professionals or Proletarians

>Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:44:05 -0600 (CST)

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>

>Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

>opinions and your frustration.

>

>

>

>Maxine Pate

>

>---- Original message ----

>

> Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

>

>

>

> Subject: Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

please remove me from email list.

thanks

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Professionals or Proletarians

>Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:44:05 -0600 (CST)

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>

>Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

>opinions and your frustration.

>

>

>

>Maxine Pate

>

>---- Original message ----

>

> Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

>

>

>

> Subject: Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

please remove me from email list.

thanks

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Professionals or Proletarians

>Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:44:05 -0600 (CST)

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>

>Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

>opinions and your frustration.

>

>

>

>Maxine Pate

>

>---- Original message ----

>

> Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

>

>

>

> Subject: Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You have unsubscribe - just like you subscribed....

LES POWELL

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, RSO, CAAS, CAI, AHA-IT

Medical, Health and Safety Specialist

TOTAL PETROCHEMICALS USA, INC.

P. O. Box 849, Port Arthur, TX 77641?0849

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Tel: ? Fax:

e-mail: les.powell@...

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Technicians

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Sent by:

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Please respond to

To:

cc:

Subject: Re: Professionals or Proletarians

please remove me from email list.

thanks

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Professionals or Proletarians

>Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:44:05 -0600 (CST)

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9

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>

>Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

>opinions and your frustration.

>

>

>

>Maxine Pate

>

>---- Original message ----

>

> Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

>

>

>

> Subject: Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man�s imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Due to budget cuts, removal is a " self-service " function.

-Wes

Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Singing…”you can checkout any time you like, but you can NEVER leave….”

Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Singing…”you can checkout any time you like, but you can NEVER leave….”

Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Singing…”you can checkout any time you like, but you can NEVER leave….”

Professionals or

> Proletarians

>

> To: < >

>

> >Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of

> strength.

>

> >

>

> >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> intelligent communication

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

WHY!???????????????????????????????????????????

Slawson EMT-I

>

> please remove me from email list.

>

> thanks

>

>

> >From: " Pate, Maxine " <bpate717@c...>

> >Reply-To:

> >To:

> >Subject: Re: Professionals or Proletarians

> >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:44:05 -0600 (CST)

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> >FILETIME=[FA3EAA40:01C61522]

> >

> >Well said, Dr. ! Many others share your

> >opinions and your frustration.

> >

> >

> >

> >Maxine Pate

> >

> >---- Original message ----

> >

> > Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:13:30 -0600

> >

> > From: Larry <miller@g...>

> >

> > Subject: Professionals or

> > Proletarians

> >

> > To: < >

> >

> > >Rudeness is the weak man‘s imitation of

> > strength.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >Profanity is the ignorant man¹s excuse for

> > intelligent communication

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >