Re: to tamoxifen or not to tamoxifen

December 8, 2005

Actually that's not quite true. Everyone of us drives a car and puts pollutants into the air that cause cancer. Everyone who buys standard fruits and veggies instead of organic, well, you tell farmers it's okay to spray cancer causing chemicals into our air and onto our food supply. If you eat beef, pork, chicken, etc... especially if you buy non organic forms of those, farmers of these products pollute our streams and under water tables. Do you eat processed foods, you are contributing to big food corporations that pollute the environment very heavily on an hourly basis.If you consume plastics, as in buy stuff that is heavily wrapped in plastics, think of what it takes to produce plastic and then what it does to the environment as it starts to deteriorate, we are poisoning people by using plastics. I could go on and on, I could write a book, in fact, many people already have. While I don't agree with 's continuing to smoke I do agree with what she has said. And don't even get me started on Wal-Mart shopping. :-/

Don't get me wrong, I'm a meat eater though I don't eat much and what I do eat I only buy organic. But our industrialized world is what created this massive outbreak of cancers.

One more thing. Tobacco, unadulterated, unprocessed, is not a tenth as bad for you as the brand cigs you get today. If you grew your own from organic seeds it wouldn't have near the effects on the body that those packaged brand do.

LICS June "The best protection any woman can have...is courage." Cady Stanton Secular Breast Cancer Support group: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SecularBCSupport/

-----Original Message-----From: breastcancer2 [mailto:breastcancer2 ]On Behalf Of WeinbergerSent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:43 PMTo: breastcancer2 Subject: Re: to tamoxifen or not to tamoxifen

hi lisa yes i agree that there are so many things other than cigarettes such as red meat etc the only die only difference is that if we consume something that is cancer causing we are only doing it to ourself cigarette smoking is a little different it exposes every one around us to these cancer causing agents i am sure minewas caused from hormones if i had it to do over i would never taken them my tumor was 15 by 16 cm when iwas diagnosed four years ago mary lisaogut@... wrote: Hi ,I see my smoking upsets you. This is what surprises me: meat, especially red meat, diet pop, surplus of sweets, *any* kind of animal fat, chemicals in food (including eggs), chemicals in body lotion, over-eating, preservatives, plastics in microwaves, breathing air for an hour outside while on a walk or run, filling up gas at a gas station, petroleum use of *any* kind that makes its way into the body, alcohol use, many more things are *all* POISONS. OK? Besides things that people ingest, there is over-eating (a big one), sex-addiction, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, any number of poisons. Every single person over 40 that I know *has a poison that they use daily*. (anyone out there over 40 who does not use one or more of these poisons?) They All are dangerous, and besides the sex, *all* are carcinogenic. OK? You might think to yourself: but cigarette smoking is addictive. Well, the fact that it is addictive is not what makes it carcinogenic. What makes it carcinogenic is behavior: how often it is used. I will bet that red meat is by far *worse* than cigarettes. No, its not addictive (although one might argue that it is, as people keep consuming it, knowing it is terrible for them). But, addiction is not what makes red meat (and the list of the things above) carcinogenic; *behavoir* is what makes red meat carcinogenic, i.e. how often it is ingested. Behavior is what makes all of the above carcinogenic, how often is it ingested/used. My guess is several times daily. I find it so interesting that people with their own poisons come down so hard on my chosen poison. I am not mad about it at all, but I sorta want to scream: what about Your Own poisons? I dont do preservatives, I dont do meat, I dont do eggs (except vegetarian, cage-free eggs), I dont overeat, use sex or alcohol as an addiction. Here, in Chicagoland, they want to make smoking banned in restaurants. I suppose 2nd hand smoke is dangerous for waitrons. But I want to say "get your f-ing red meat away from me." Further, use of meat abuses animals *terribly* which to me is unconscionable. Smoking doesnt abuse animals, or people, if done in my home. I just think the world is So weird looking at smoking as "The One Big Poison" when by far, it is not as bad as the rest of them. That's all! Thanks for your interest. I am glad you said something because I am sure others are thinking the same thing.Love to us all, -- OgutThe Whole Brain Game -- It's Not What You Think But How You Think It --------- to tamoxifen or not to tamoxifen> > > > > > Hello, all. Hopefully I have found a group that talks about breast > > cancer and not a lot of other stuff (some "breast cancer support" > > sites are not what you would think!)> > > > I had a wide excision in May of this year - DCIS. Steriotac biopsy > > had been extensive and showed no growth outside the ducts so no > > nodes were done. [My mother died in March 2002 at age 77 of > > complications from BC diagnosed 4 1/2 years before.] I did about 35 > > sessions of radiation which finished in August.> > > > Have had extensive blood work since then - had been diagnosed years > > ago with a blood clot tendency at age 23; oncologist wanted to be > > sure before putting me on tamoxifen. First round showed old > > diagnosis correct. Repeat blood work showed no problem. After 30 > > years of believing I had a blood clot problem I am a bit reticent to > > go on tamoxifen.> > > > She was reluctant to put me on one of the newer drugs becasue they > > tend to show arthritic problems over time and she doesn't want to do > > that to one of her "younger" patients. (Only in oncology would 54 > > years old be a younger patient! I got a chuckle out of that!)> > > > Anyone with similar experience? > > How about side effects of tamoxifen? Anyone on it?> > Any long time survivors who didn't take it? What has your journey > > through recovery been?> > > > Also, am having pains in breast when lying on my stomach (which is > > how I like to sleep). I DIDN'T have pains for most of September and > > October, but they have started and not let up since. Nothing > > serious, just enough to not allow me to go to sleep. Nurse > > practitioner at surgeon's office thinks it is healing, tissues > > shrinking after radiation.> > > > Anybody else with same symptoms? What info did you get?> > > > I am a widow with a 17 year old daughter. I try not to scare myself > > thinking about this stuff, but every ache and pain makes me wonder.> > I welcome all thoughts.> > > > Deborah> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

December 8, 2005

Hello Carol in Northern Michigan,

Thanks for your response. Smoking didnt cause mine, either. I started smoking

very late in life and have only 2-3 yrs. of smoking under my belt. When my

sister had breast cancer, she smoked, too. (That was back when I didnt smoke.)

I never judged her, not for a minute. Every study I have read deliberately

states that there is *no* link between breast cancer and smoking. Enjoy all you

want. My doctor told me (when I told him I had started smoking), " don't be

afraid to live your life just because you are afraid of death. " That was his

comment, along w/ a strong statement that smoking *only* affects those areas

that the smoke directly contacts. Truthfully, he admitted he lights up, too.

Lots of cultures have smoked through the ages.

I tried effexor, and a host of other medications, from anti-convulsants to some

kind of steroid something to, well, I cant remember. None of them worked at

all. I am glad to hear the effexor worked for you. I tried it for a long time,

and it only helped for one day. Hot flashes kept on and kept on. Any other

tips, let me know, I will try it.

Thanks again for writing,

Love to us all,

--

Ogut

The Whole Brain Game -- It's Not What You Think But How You Think It

-------------- Original message ----------------------

> lisa, i also had to deal with those flashes....doctor put me on effexor and

that

> almost cooled them down to nothing along with helping my mood and

> depression....something to think about...

> i also smoke and probally will die smokeing being stage 4 i will do and

consume

> any and everything my heart desires.....until a doctor says to me, carol if

you

> stop smokeing you will live a long life or if you stop your cancer will go

away

> but the fact is , it didn't cause my breast cancer nor did it cause my cancer

to

> come back......like you i am not upset but the only person that can judge me

is

> my heavenly father.....ok i will shut up now...

> hugs and prayers from carol in northern mi.

lisa, i also had to deal with those flashes....doctor put me on effexor and that almost cooled them down to nothing along with helping my mood and depression....something to think about...

i also smoke and probally will die smokeing being stage 4 i will do and consume any and everything my heart desires.....until a doctor says to me, carol if you stop smokeing you will live a long life or if you stop your cancer will go away but the fact is , it didn't cause my breast cancer nor did it cause my cancer to come back......like you i am not upset but the only person that can judge me is my heavenly father.....ok i will shut up now...

hugs and prayers from carol in northern mi.

December 8, 2005