Re: Philisophical vs Practical

[Guest guest]

" Oh yeah, uh hu, Go Doug, it's your birthday... " Rapping this as you dance

around in center of our group. (You know like 90s party stuff?)

Anyway, this and the advice to teenage girls really hit home with me. I got in

a habit of following my husband's truck in our tree service because he had the

addresses in the bucket truck and I pull the wood trailer. I noticed later that

he would automatically pull out ahead of me in our personal vehicles as well.

He used to open doors, etc. and stopped. I was convicted to help change this

because of the example to our kids, because OF COURSE, KOs can't do anything

good for ourselves.

We have been improving it together. I mentioned it and he agreed that he likes

doing polite things for me (and vice versa). I have to remember to feel good

enough about myself to walk ahead of him or wait for the door thing - sometimes,

not like EVERY time we leave Wal-Mart or whatever. I know, I'm really on the

Wal-Mart thing lately...

He helped me run a big limb through the chipper a couple of months ago. I

remember this catching my attention because he usually tends to just get out of

the way and let me do it. This is such a validating way to maintain that I am

still a lady - and within the context of hard work or daily life tasks can be

the most important time for this courtesy.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>> >

> If I m at the counter at a store and someone picks up the phone and

> starts to talk, I ll say quite loudly, EXCUSE ME< but I m standing right

> here. Tell them to call you back and wait on me now.

>

> If I go thru a drive through and someone pokes my food out without

> looking at me while talking to a co worker back inside, I ll sit without

> touching the food until they turn and make eye contact with me.

>

> If someone is rude to me on the phone, I ll hang up. If it is a

> business, I ll get their name and call back and talk to the manager and

> express my feelings about rude treatment.

>

> I have learned , and practice, manners and politeness to those I deal

> with. I expect, nay demand, the same treatment in return.

>

> And I apply that to relationships as well.

>

> IMHO

>

> Doug

[Guest guest]

" Oh yeah, uh hu, Go Doug, it's your birthday... " Rapping this as you dance

around in center of our group. (You know like 90s party stuff?)

Anyway, this and the advice to teenage girls really hit home with me. I got in

a habit of following my husband's truck in our tree service because he had the

addresses in the bucket truck and I pull the wood trailer. I noticed later that

he would automatically pull out ahead of me in our personal vehicles as well.

He used to open doors, etc. and stopped. I was convicted to help change this

because of the example to our kids, because OF COURSE, KOs can't do anything

good for ourselves.

We have been improving it together. I mentioned it and he agreed that he likes

doing polite things for me (and vice versa). I have to remember to feel good

enough about myself to walk ahead of him or wait for the door thing - sometimes,

not like EVERY time we leave Wal-Mart or whatever. I know, I'm really on the

Wal-Mart thing lately...

He helped me run a big limb through the chipper a couple of months ago. I

remember this catching my attention because he usually tends to just get out of

the way and let me do it. This is such a validating way to maintain that I am

still a lady - and within the context of hard work or daily life tasks can be

the most important time for this courtesy.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>> >

> If I m at the counter at a store and someone picks up the phone and

> starts to talk, I ll say quite loudly, EXCUSE ME< but I m standing right

> here. Tell them to call you back and wait on me now.

>

> If I go thru a drive through and someone pokes my food out without

> looking at me while talking to a co worker back inside, I ll sit without

> touching the food until they turn and make eye contact with me.

>

> If someone is rude to me on the phone, I ll hang up. If it is a

> business, I ll get their name and call back and talk to the manager and

> express my feelings about rude treatment.

>

> I have learned , and practice, manners and politeness to those I deal

> with. I expect, nay demand, the same treatment in return.

>

> And I apply that to relationships as well.

>

> IMHO

>

> Doug

[Guest guest]

Or let me know when you have it up, and I ll write a blog or article along the

same lines for your site.

Doug

>

> Doug:

>

> I can only say one word to that post:

>

> WOW.

>

> I want to start a website about being an adult child of a BP. Can I quote

that one???

>

> --.

>

[Guest guest]

90s? Now give me some Bee Gees, and we may have a thing going on here!

lol

We tend to be treated as we expect and permit. We tend to treat others

as we are rewarded for doing.

It is really very simple.

Treat others as you would like to be treated.

When others treat you well, reward the behavior. That is , let hubby

KNOW, baby, I really appreciated it when you did XYZ.

We guys would almost rather have that positive feedback to our behavior

from our wives than sex. Almost, I said.

Romance CAN start at the wood chipper. Who d of thunk it?

But if it is taken for granted, it will stop. If we accept bad

behavior, it will continue.

It s really not rocket science.

Polite behavior shows respect, and

It

Does

Matter.

!

Doug

>

> " Oh yeah, uh hu, Go Doug, it's your birthday... " Rapping this as you

dance around in center of our group. (You know like 90s party stuff?)

>

> Anyway, this and the advice to teenage girls really hit home with me.

I got in a habit of following my husband's truck in our tree service

because he had the addresses in the bucket truck and I pull the wood

trailer. I noticed later that he would automatically pull out ahead of

me in our personal vehicles as well. He used to open doors, etc. and

stopped. I was convicted to help change this because of the example to

our kids, because OF COURSE, KOs can't do anything good for ourselves.

>

> We have been improving it together. I mentioned it and he agreed that

he likes doing polite things for me (and vice versa). I have to

remember to feel good enough about myself to walk ahead of him or wait

for the door thing - sometimes, not like EVERY time we leave Wal-Mart or

whatever. I know, I'm really on the Wal-Mart thing lately...

>

> He helped me run a big limb through the chipper a couple of months

ago. I remember this catching my attention because he usually tends to

just get out of the way and let me do it. This is such a validating way

to maintain that I am still a lady - and within the context of hard work

or daily life tasks can be the most important time for this courtesy.

>

> +Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

Hmm. It wasnt. But this is rich material for a chapter, or at least an

article.

We ll see.

Doug

> >>

> >

> > But girl friend, you a SHO NUFF Woman! All growed up and wearing

big

> > girl panties. So, hard as it is, join me, let the little girl and

the

> > little boy know: Hey, kid? I got it. You don t have to do it

anymore.

> > I m here now. The adult. I ll handle it.

> >

> > Trust me, the IRS expects you to be the adult. You can t deduct

> > yourself as a child. So enjoy the perks of being an adult.

> >

> > Object lesson:

> >

> > When I was a young sailor, a bunch of us went into a pool hall. We

> > were talking like sailors as we missed our shots. The owner, and

older

> > man, probably like my age now, came over and said boys, I

appreciate

> > your business, but you need to mind your language. I don t allow

that

> > sort of talk in here.

> >

> > A few minutes later, another blast of blue notes from one of us, and

he

> > came over calmly , not mad, not raising his voice, and said , now

fellas

> > , you remember what I said? You are going to have to leave now.

Next

> > time you come to see me, I hope you ll remember.

> >

> > That incident stuck with me as an adult, being firm, but kind, and

> > exerting himself for his safe boundaries.

> >

> > We can do it as well. And you know, it may seem you fight every

minute,

> > but after a while, people learn to know what you expect, and act

> > accordingly.

> >

> > Unless they are a BP of course, which is a whole different game.

> >

> > I heard advice once, given to a teen girl. Sweetheart, act like you

> > fully expect to be treated like a lady, pause at the door and smile

> > sweetly and wait for it to be opened for you, act as if you fully

expect

> > someone to hold your seat for you. People , and boys, dumb as they

> > are, will get the hint and either treat you like a lady, or run

like

> > hell because they don t know how to handle a woman.

> >

> > Act as if you expect to be treated properly. Very good advice. KO

s

> > would never think of that.

> >

> > till now.

> >

> >

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that does not always

apply to every situation. There are times in my life where I am right there

with you, am not fearful of standing up for myself or what I believe in,

especially when it comes to respect, morals, ethics... but not just referring to

nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes that can be a very wrong

approach with some very high consequences. I think the healthier way is to

learn how to balance, when is it right and ok and when is it better to just shut

up and walk away?

BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter can be just as

rude and disrespectful as the people we work so hard to stand up to in our

lives. What happens when you tell someone " get your shit and get out " and they

turn on you because now YOU are the one being rude and disrespectful? I think

thats a fine line and needs to be walked carefully.

Just my 2 cents.

> >

> > So, we may need to look at some details or work out emotions in our

> own lives, but the basic idea could be summed up:

> >

> > We need boundaries to protect ourselves/spouse/kids from unhealthy

> interactions.

> >

> > This would apply across the board: from the unpleasant co-shopper at

> Wal-Mart to our very own blood kin. Family or not becomes irrelevant.

> >

> > We must learn the same coping skills we would use for a co-worker,

> boss or neighbor. That idea does help simplify things and answers a lot

> of questions about what I should do in this or that situation, hmmm?

> >

> > +Coal Miner's Daughter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that does not always

apply to every situation. There are times in my life where I am right there

with you, am not fearful of standing up for myself or what I believe in,

especially when it comes to respect, morals, ethics... but not just referring to

nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes that can be a very wrong

approach with some very high consequences. I think the healthier way is to

learn how to balance, when is it right and ok and when is it better to just shut

up and walk away?

BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter can be just as

rude and disrespectful as the people we work so hard to stand up to in our

lives. What happens when you tell someone " get your shit and get out " and they

turn on you because now YOU are the one being rude and disrespectful? I think

thats a fine line and needs to be walked carefully.

Just my 2 cents.

> >

> > So, we may need to look at some details or work out emotions in our

> own lives, but the basic idea could be summed up:

> >

> > We need boundaries to protect ourselves/spouse/kids from unhealthy

> interactions.

> >

> > This would apply across the board: from the unpleasant co-shopper at

> Wal-Mart to our very own blood kin. Family or not becomes irrelevant.

> >

> > We must learn the same coping skills we would use for a co-worker,

> boss or neighbor. That idea does help simplify things and answers a lot

> of questions about what I should do in this or that situation, hmmm?

> >

> > +Coal Miner's Daughter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that balance is important. I think that there are times

when being more assertive is appropriate and likely to have

better results and times when doing so is likely to cause more

trouble than it is worth. Being assertive can work out better

for men than for women in similar situations due to the way our

society judges people and the way men often treat women. Each

situation needs to be judged as to whether being assertive or

just walking away from the problem will have better results.

I do think that staying in contact with a nada or fada and

keeping that contact relatively healthy requires a fairly high

level of assertiveness. If you aren't assertive about your

boundaries, they'll run right over you without a second thought

in most cases. If you can't be assertive enough to prevent that,

I think no contact is a healthier choice.

At 04:32 PM 01/07/2011 armyinlaw wrote:

>Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that

>does not always apply to every situation. There are times in

>my life where I am right there with you, am not fearful of

>standing up for myself or what I believe in, especially when it

>comes to respect, morals, ethics... but not just referring to

>nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes that can be a

>very wrong approach with some very high consequences. I think

>the healthier way is to learn how to balance, when is it right

>and ok and when is it better to just shut up and walk away?

>

>BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter

>can be just as rude and disrespectful as the people we work so

>hard to stand up to in our lives. What happens when you tell

>someone " get your shit and get out " and they turn on you

>because now YOU are the one being rude and disrespectful? I

>think thats a fine line and needs to be walked carefully.

>

>Just my 2 cents.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I agree that balance is important. I think that there are times

when being more assertive is appropriate and likely to have

better results and times when doing so is likely to cause more

trouble than it is worth. Being assertive can work out better

for men than for women in similar situations due to the way our

society judges people and the way men often treat women. Each

situation needs to be judged as to whether being assertive or

just walking away from the problem will have better results.

I do think that staying in contact with a nada or fada and

keeping that contact relatively healthy requires a fairly high

level of assertiveness. If you aren't assertive about your

boundaries, they'll run right over you without a second thought

in most cases. If you can't be assertive enough to prevent that,

I think no contact is a healthier choice.

At 04:32 PM 01/07/2011 armyinlaw wrote:

>Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that

>does not always apply to every situation. There are times in

>my life where I am right there with you, am not fearful of

>standing up for myself or what I believe in, especially when it

>comes to respect, morals, ethics... but not just referring to

>nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes that can be a

>very wrong approach with some very high consequences. I think

>the healthier way is to learn how to balance, when is it right

>and ok and when is it better to just shut up and walk away?

>

>BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter

>can be just as rude and disrespectful as the people we work so

>hard to stand up to in our lives. What happens when you tell

>someone " get your shit and get out " and they turn on you

>because now YOU are the one being rude and disrespectful? I

>think thats a fine line and needs to be walked carefully.

>

>Just my 2 cents.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Agreed. I did nt mean to give the impression that this is easy for me,

or that I fell off the turnip truck asserting my right to exist. It is

a process and a hard one. For any of us who lived with FOG, asserting

ourselves is a challenge.

Walking away is less satisfying than confronting, but is still an

acceptable alternative to our natural bent, which is bend over and take

it!

Yea, I love Walter, but if he were a real person someone would slap

shit out of him!

Lol.

And , no, not everything will work for everybody. As we heal, we find

what works well for us and move forward. Still , there are times you

have to say outwardly, yes sir yes sir, 3 bags full, while inside you

are muttering....Prick!

Doug

>

> Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that does not

always apply to every situation. There are times in my life where I am

right there with you, am not fearful of standing up for myself or what I

believe in, especially when it comes to respect, morals, ethics... but

not just referring to nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes

that can be a very wrong approach with some very high consequences. I

think the healthier way is to learn how to balance, when is it right and

ok and when is it better to just shut up and walk away?

>

> BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter can be

just as rude and disrespectful as the people we work so hard to stand up

to in our lives. What happens when you tell someone " get your shit and

get out " and they turn on you because now YOU are the one being rude and

disrespectful? I think thats a fine line and needs to be walked

carefully.

>

> Just my 2 cents.

>

[Guest guest]

Speaking of asserting yourself - that's what I'm working on with T right

now. And I had a huge success yesterday. I have a co-worker who I like as an

individual, but he is a weenie to work with. Anyway, I needed him to email

me 4 images, and I knew he would want to choose which ones, so I negotiated

with the journalist for him to get to do that (which is too much to go into,

but is not a normal practice in my work, the journalist is the one who wears

the pants). So I went to tell him that he could pick and he wanted me to

fill out a 2 page worksheet to formally request the images. Doing this

worksheet would also bring 3 other people into the process - all for a

simple e-mail containing 4 pictures that he already has? I think not. I said

NO, that I was leaving for the weekend in 20 min, I had a whole story to

organize before I could leave, and I needed them the next day (which is my

day off). so there was no time when I could do it. He said he " couldn't " get

me the images then. I said okay, I'll just look around and pick some out for

myself then it will be faster. He gave in and said send me an e-mail instead

of the form.

Ha ha ha. I felt very empowered. Of course, he never followed through and

sent them, so on Monday I will do as promised and look around in his stuff

on the shared serve and pick them myself. it was a very very big deal for me

to stand up to this bully. He also told me that if I picked the images

myself he would need to approve them. I said no way, that I don't even have

the right to approve news images in most cases and this is a special

instance where I negotiatied for him to have more control - if he didn't

want to seize it then that is fine I'll do it myself, like I normally would.

In a nutshell, he doesn't have the utlimate say in my department. He can

bully who ever he wants to in his dept, but not mine.

I imagine that he (being the kind of bully who uses policy and processes to

keep him from getting too busy and also to control other people, instead of

leaning on it as a best practice) is going to talk to the boss, but I will

continue to assert myself. The boss told us a month ago that we need to

stand up to him more anyway. . . so there. I did it. Color me proud of

myself. This guy tries to push me around all the effing time and I'm sick of

it.

YAY GIRLSCOUT GO!!!

Hugs guys

>

>

> Agreed. I did nt mean to give the impression that this is easy for me,

> or that I fell off the turnip truck asserting my right to exist. It is

> a process and a hard one. For any of us who lived with FOG, asserting

> ourselves is a challenge.

>

> Walking away is less satisfying than confronting, but is still an

> acceptable alternative to our natural bent, which is bend over and take

> it!

>

> Yea, I love Walter, but if he were a real person someone would slap

> shit out of him!

>

> Lol.

>

> And , no, not everything will work for everybody. As we heal, we find

> what works well for us and move forward. Still , there are times you

> have to say outwardly, yes sir yes sir, 3 bags full, while inside you

> are muttering....Prick!

>

> Doug

>

>

>

> >

> > Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that does not

> always apply to every situation. There are times in my life where I am

> right there with you, am not fearful of standing up for myself or what I

> believe in, especially when it comes to respect, morals, ethics... but

> not just referring to nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes

> that can be a very wrong approach with some very high consequences. I

> think the healthier way is to learn how to balance, when is it right and

> ok and when is it better to just shut up and walk away?

> >

> > BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter can be

> just as rude and disrespectful as the people we work so hard to stand up

> to in our lives. What happens when you tell someone " get your shit and

> get out " and they turn on you because now YOU are the one being rude and

> disrespectful? I think thats a fine line and needs to be walked

> carefully.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Speaking of asserting yourself - that's what I'm working on with T right

now. And I had a huge success yesterday. I have a co-worker who I like as an

individual, but he is a weenie to work with. Anyway, I needed him to email

me 4 images, and I knew he would want to choose which ones, so I negotiated

with the journalist for him to get to do that (which is too much to go into,

but is not a normal practice in my work, the journalist is the one who wears

the pants). So I went to tell him that he could pick and he wanted me to

fill out a 2 page worksheet to formally request the images. Doing this

worksheet would also bring 3 other people into the process - all for a

simple e-mail containing 4 pictures that he already has? I think not. I said

NO, that I was leaving for the weekend in 20 min, I had a whole story to

organize before I could leave, and I needed them the next day (which is my

day off). so there was no time when I could do it. He said he " couldn't " get

me the images then. I said okay, I'll just look around and pick some out for

myself then it will be faster. He gave in and said send me an e-mail instead

of the form.

Ha ha ha. I felt very empowered. Of course, he never followed through and

sent them, so on Monday I will do as promised and look around in his stuff

on the shared serve and pick them myself. it was a very very big deal for me

to stand up to this bully. He also told me that if I picked the images

myself he would need to approve them. I said no way, that I don't even have

the right to approve news images in most cases and this is a special

instance where I negotiatied for him to have more control - if he didn't

want to seize it then that is fine I'll do it myself, like I normally would.

In a nutshell, he doesn't have the utlimate say in my department. He can

bully who ever he wants to in his dept, but not mine.

I imagine that he (being the kind of bully who uses policy and processes to

keep him from getting too busy and also to control other people, instead of

leaning on it as a best practice) is going to talk to the boss, but I will

continue to assert myself. The boss told us a month ago that we need to

stand up to him more anyway. . . so there. I did it. Color me proud of

myself. This guy tries to push me around all the effing time and I'm sick of

it.

YAY GIRLSCOUT GO!!!

Hugs guys

>

>

> Agreed. I did nt mean to give the impression that this is easy for me,

> or that I fell off the turnip truck asserting my right to exist. It is

> a process and a hard one. For any of us who lived with FOG, asserting

> ourselves is a challenge.

>

> Walking away is less satisfying than confronting, but is still an

> acceptable alternative to our natural bent, which is bend over and take

> it!

>

> Yea, I love Walter, but if he were a real person someone would slap

> shit out of him!

>

> Lol.

>

> And , no, not everything will work for everybody. As we heal, we find

> what works well for us and move forward. Still , there are times you

> have to say outwardly, yes sir yes sir, 3 bags full, while inside you

> are muttering....Prick!

>

> Doug

>

>

>

> >

> > Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that does not

> always apply to every situation. There are times in my life where I am

> right there with you, am not fearful of standing up for myself or what I

> believe in, especially when it comes to respect, morals, ethics... but

> not just referring to nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes

> that can be a very wrong approach with some very high consequences. I

> think the healthier way is to learn how to balance, when is it right and

> ok and when is it better to just shut up and walk away?

> >

> > BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter can be

> just as rude and disrespectful as the people we work so hard to stand up

> to in our lives. What happens when you tell someone " get your shit and

> get out " and they turn on you because now YOU are the one being rude and

> disrespectful? I think thats a fine line and needs to be walked

> carefully.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Speaking of asserting yourself - that's what I'm working on with T right

now. And I had a huge success yesterday. I have a co-worker who I like as an

individual, but he is a weenie to work with. Anyway, I needed him to email

me 4 images, and I knew he would want to choose which ones, so I negotiated

with the journalist for him to get to do that (which is too much to go into,

but is not a normal practice in my work, the journalist is the one who wears

the pants). So I went to tell him that he could pick and he wanted me to

fill out a 2 page worksheet to formally request the images. Doing this

worksheet would also bring 3 other people into the process - all for a

simple e-mail containing 4 pictures that he already has? I think not. I said

NO, that I was leaving for the weekend in 20 min, I had a whole story to

organize before I could leave, and I needed them the next day (which is my

day off). so there was no time when I could do it. He said he " couldn't " get

me the images then. I said okay, I'll just look around and pick some out for

myself then it will be faster. He gave in and said send me an e-mail instead

of the form.

Ha ha ha. I felt very empowered. Of course, he never followed through and

sent them, so on Monday I will do as promised and look around in his stuff

on the shared serve and pick them myself. it was a very very big deal for me

to stand up to this bully. He also told me that if I picked the images

myself he would need to approve them. I said no way, that I don't even have

the right to approve news images in most cases and this is a special

instance where I negotiatied for him to have more control - if he didn't

want to seize it then that is fine I'll do it myself, like I normally would.

In a nutshell, he doesn't have the utlimate say in my department. He can

bully who ever he wants to in his dept, but not mine.

I imagine that he (being the kind of bully who uses policy and processes to

keep him from getting too busy and also to control other people, instead of

leaning on it as a best practice) is going to talk to the boss, but I will

continue to assert myself. The boss told us a month ago that we need to

stand up to him more anyway. . . so there. I did it. Color me proud of

myself. This guy tries to push me around all the effing time and I'm sick of

it.

YAY GIRLSCOUT GO!!!

Hugs guys

>

>

> Agreed. I did nt mean to give the impression that this is easy for me,

> or that I fell off the turnip truck asserting my right to exist. It is

> a process and a hard one. For any of us who lived with FOG, asserting

> ourselves is a challenge.

>

> Walking away is less satisfying than confronting, but is still an

> acceptable alternative to our natural bent, which is bend over and take

> it!

>

> Yea, I love Walter, but if he were a real person someone would slap

> shit out of him!

>

> Lol.

>

> And , no, not everything will work for everybody. As we heal, we find

> what works well for us and move forward. Still , there are times you

> have to say outwardly, yes sir yes sir, 3 bags full, while inside you

> are muttering....Prick!

>

> Doug

>

>

>

> >

> > Doug, I am so glad that works for you in your life, but that does not

> always apply to every situation. There are times in my life where I am

> right there with you, am not fearful of standing up for myself or what I

> believe in, especially when it comes to respect, morals, ethics... but

> not just referring to nada and the BPD, but life in general, sometimes

> that can be a very wrong approach with some very high consequences. I

> think the healthier way is to learn how to balance, when is it right and

> ok and when is it better to just shut up and walk away?

> >

> > BTW, I happen to love Walter, he's my favorite! But... Walter can be

> just as rude and disrespectful as the people we work so hard to stand up

> to in our lives. What happens when you tell someone " get your shit and

> get out " and they turn on you because now YOU are the one being rude and

> disrespectful? I think thats a fine line and needs to be walked

> carefully.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bravo girlscout!

I probably know what are you talking :-)

Go and kick his superior bureaucratic ass!Don't give up. When bullies like that

feel you really mean it (but it takes some time) they give up and they find

another " victim "

I'm proud of you too!!! Hugs to you to!

Yenaine

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bravo girlscout!

I probably know what are you talking :-)

Go and kick his superior bureaucratic ass!Don't give up. When bullies like that

feel you really mean it (but it takes some time) they give up and they find

another " victim "

I'm proud of you too!!! Hugs to you to!

Yenaine

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bravo girlscout!

I probably know what are you talking :-)

Go and kick his superior bureaucratic ass!Don't give up. When bullies like that

feel you really mean it (but it takes some time) they give up and they find

another " victim "

I'm proud of you too!!! Hugs to you to!

Yenaine

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Yenaine, Yes I'm sure you understand who has control over the news. .

.. and its not the bully.

XOXO

>

>

>

>

> Bravo girlscout!

> I probably know what are you talking :-)

> Go and kick his superior bureaucratic ass!Don't give up. When bullies like

> that feel you really mean it (but it takes some time) they give up and they

> find another " victim "

> I'm proud of you too!!! Hugs to you to!

> Yenaine

>

>

>

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But how do we start healing???

[Guest guest]

But how do we start healing???

[Guest guest]

But how do we start healing???

[Guest guest]

One step at a time, and it takes time.

I think therapy would be a good start. A trained therapist can help you

figure out where you need to start. It also wouldn't help to read some of

the books that others have suggested. Keep posting here too.

Be kind to yourself, that's a good first step. Know that you're not alone

and that this list can be validating for you too because you will see that

you aren't alone by reading what others post. Get to know you... the real

you, not the person your nada or fada (mother or father) tried to make you

believe you were. You are a unique person with rights, emotions & memories

and you do not have to live in the shadow of lies and denigration.

In my opinion, you've all ready taken the first step to healing... you're

here! I'm glad you are too =) So please do pat yourself on the back for

finding this group, it's a great place to start!

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

One step at a time, and it takes time.

I think therapy would be a good start. A trained therapist can help you

figure out where you need to start. It also wouldn't help to read some of

the books that others have suggested. Keep posting here too.

Be kind to yourself, that's a good first step. Know that you're not alone

and that this list can be validating for you too because you will see that

you aren't alone by reading what others post. Get to know you... the real

you, not the person your nada or fada (mother or father) tried to make you

believe you were. You are a unique person with rights, emotions & memories

and you do not have to live in the shadow of lies and denigration.

In my opinion, you've all ready taken the first step to healing... you're

here! I'm glad you are too =) So please do pat yourself on the back for

finding this group, it's a great place to start!

Mia

>

[Guest guest]

Love this story! I appreciated you taking time to explain some of the details.

I do much better with concrete examples than vague generalities when I need to

recall a certain approach or advice.

I especially noted that you followed up your first " boundary " by having a plan

for Monday and an idea of what to do at the next step. Reminds me of chess -

thinking many plays ahead. Good stuff and very necessary for us KOs who have

the natural bent of bending over to take it (well said, Doug).

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>I said

> NO, that I was leaving for the weekend in 20 min, I had a whole story to

> organize before I could leave, and I needed them the next day (which is my

> day off). so there was no time when I could do it. He said he " couldn't " get

> me the images then. I said okay, I'll just look around and pick some out for

> myself then it will be faster. He gave in and said send me an e-mail instead

> of the form.

>

> Ha ha ha. I felt very empowered. Of course, he never followed through and

> sent them, so on Monday I will do as promised and look around in his stuff

> on the shared serve and pick them myself.

is going to talk to the boss, but I will

> continue to assert myself. The boss told us a month ago that we need to

> stand up to him more anyway. . . so there. I did it. Color me proud of

> myself. This guy tries to push me around all the effing time and I'm sick of

> it.

>

> YAY GIRLSCOUT GO!!!

>

> Hugs guys

>

[Guest guest]

Love this story! I appreciated you taking time to explain some of the details.

I do much better with concrete examples than vague generalities when I need to

recall a certain approach or advice.

I especially noted that you followed up your first " boundary " by having a plan

for Monday and an idea of what to do at the next step. Reminds me of chess -

thinking many plays ahead. Good stuff and very necessary for us KOs who have

the natural bent of bending over to take it (well said, Doug).

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>I said

> NO, that I was leaving for the weekend in 20 min, I had a whole story to

> organize before I could leave, and I needed them the next day (which is my

> day off). so there was no time when I could do it. He said he " couldn't " get

> me the images then. I said okay, I'll just look around and pick some out for

> myself then it will be faster. He gave in and said send me an e-mail instead

> of the form.

>

> Ha ha ha. I felt very empowered. Of course, he never followed through and

> sent them, so on Monday I will do as promised and look around in his stuff

> on the shared serve and pick them myself.

is going to talk to the boss, but I will

> continue to assert myself. The boss told us a month ago that we need to

> stand up to him more anyway. . . so there. I did it. Color me proud of

> myself. This guy tries to push me around all the effing time and I'm sick of

> it.

>

> YAY GIRLSCOUT GO!!!

>

> Hugs guys

>

[Guest guest]

My husband demonstrated Doug's subtle way of standing up for himself at our

exercise club this weekend. Some kids were pushing trying to get out the door

around him with the stroller. He said, in a pleasant tone, " You boys in a

hurry? " The pushier one said, " Yeah " and kept pushing. The other one (with a

BPD mother I have met there - not kidding a real doozy) said, " Not that much of

a hurry, we should let you go first. " My husband has some hearing loss from

heavy equipment and didn't hear it. He just kind of made himself bigger, slowed

down a little and took his time getting through the double doors. (Not sure how

he blocked them both - he's good at that kind of thing.) Anyway, I told him

what the other boy said and his response was, " Yes, they should have let us go

first. " As a KO, I am apologetic that I exist and even more that I have the

gall to come to the gym with a stroller and wait until the whole entryway is

clear before trying to get through with the stroller. It was a notable

contrast.

I have read an article that talks about how men tend to " take up their space "

better than women. It was explaining ways to be more assertive as a female and

mentioned body posture and a general attitude of owning your space.

I think a lot of what Doug was trying to show us is how to just " be " who you are

and worthy of respect. He used specific examples to demonstrate how to do this

without being rude. In fact, I have noticed that people get along great with my

husband. It's like going around with a freaking celebrity (used to bug me, but

now I'm part of the " show " ). :-)

I'm learning to " take up my space " verbally and physically. Try it. Just sit

back in your chair and spread out a little. Take a deep breath and sit up

straight. Have you ever put your arm over the back of a couch or the other seat

in your car? It's kind of fun - always gets me giggling. (I know you can do

it, because I'm 5'2 " and can do it in my Ford Taurus company fleet car.)

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. I used to think my husband had a " ticket " to assertiveness because he's

male and that I would be perceived as a b*tch. This is relevant in running my

own business, especially a tree service. I'm sure you can imagine all of the

issues with the crew, clients, etc. So I started trying his approach on the

phone, then in person. It works. In fact, people respond better to me when I'm

direct. Note* He has this lovely way of relating sincerely. He finds something

about that person to mention in a positive way or just says something about how

busy the store is today or whatever. He actually cares about people, and they

feel this too. It's weird how many special deals or little courtesies he

receives doing business. It has started happening to me now too. Sometimes

people just extend offers or try to help without even being asked. Then I find

some way to help them back, at the very least ask to leave a message for the

manager about their good service, when applicable.

I have a friend at the 's drive-thru who always says hi to me and the kids.

We haven't helped each other in any significant way, just say hi and how are

you? It peps me up every time. Really nice lady.

p.p.s. I should mention that I had learned hermit ways and had agoraphobia on my

long list of issues. I couldn't even call the phone company to ask for a bill

total 10 years ago - would start crying and want to commit suicide. Wish I was

kidding.

>

> Agreed. I did nt mean to give the impression that this is easy for me,

> or that I fell off the turnip truck asserting my right to exist. It is

> a process and a hard one. For any of us who lived with FOG, asserting

> ourselves is a challenge.

>

> Walking away is less satisfying than confronting, but is still an

> acceptable alternative to our natural bent, which is bend over and take

> it!

>

> Yea, I love Walter, but if he were a real person someone would slap

> shit out of him!

>

> Lol.

>

> And , no, not everything will work for everybody. As we heal, we find

> what works well for us and move forward. Still , there are times you

> have to say outwardly, yes sir yes sir, 3 bags full, while inside you

> are muttering....Prick!

>

> Doug

>

>