RE: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

[Guest guest]

What is listed on the minimal equipment list?

[Guest guest]

What is listed on the minimal equipment list?

[Guest guest]

What is listed on the minimal equipment list?

[Guest guest]

I don't have my copy anymore. It is not in the TDSHS web site. I'll see if

I can find it.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of txguy001@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:40 PM

To:

Subject: Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

What is listed on the minimal equipment list?

[Guest guest]

I don't have my copy anymore. It is not in the TDSHS web site. I'll see if

I can find it.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of txguy001@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:40 PM

To:

Subject: Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

What is listed on the minimal equipment list?

[Guest guest]

I don't have my copy anymore. It is not in the TDSHS web site. I'll see if

I can find it.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of txguy001@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:40 PM

To:

Subject: Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

What is listed on the minimal equipment list?

[Guest guest]

Well why should I be required to carry this stuff when

all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis transfers

and the such. I feel it should be up to the

individual services needs. You may be refering to

critical care equipment, correct me if I am wrong. At

the total cost, that's what it sounds like.

Salvador Capuchino Jr.

EMT-Paramedic

--- " E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP "

wrote:

> As many of you may know, the Pediatric Committee of

> GETAC has proposed a

> minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on

> Texas ambulances. The

> Medical Directors' committee has opposed the list

> because they (we) felt the

> list was incongruent with the science related to

> prehospital care. As I

> understand it, the EMS Committee also was against

> the proposal because of

> the cost (approximately $22,000 per

> ambulance--although I may be wrong

> here). How do EMS providers feel about GETAC

> recommending to DSHS extensive

> equipment lists?

>

> BEB

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, Texas

>

> Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

> http://proemseducators.com/index.html

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well why should I be required to carry this stuff when

all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis transfers

and the such. I feel it should be up to the

individual services needs. You may be refering to

critical care equipment, correct me if I am wrong. At

the total cost, that's what it sounds like.

Salvador Capuchino Jr.

EMT-Paramedic

--- " E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP "

wrote:

> As many of you may know, the Pediatric Committee of

> GETAC has proposed a

> minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on

> Texas ambulances. The

> Medical Directors' committee has opposed the list

> because they (we) felt the

> list was incongruent with the science related to

> prehospital care. As I

> understand it, the EMS Committee also was against

> the proposal because of

> the cost (approximately $22,000 per

> ambulance--although I may be wrong

> here). How do EMS providers feel about GETAC

> recommending to DSHS extensive

> equipment lists?

>

> BEB

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, Texas

>

> Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

> http://proemseducators.com/index.html

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well why should I be required to carry this stuff when

all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis transfers

and the such. I feel it should be up to the

individual services needs. You may be refering to

critical care equipment, correct me if I am wrong. At

the total cost, that's what it sounds like.

Salvador Capuchino Jr.

EMT-Paramedic

--- " E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP "

wrote:

> As many of you may know, the Pediatric Committee of

> GETAC has proposed a

> minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on

> Texas ambulances. The

> Medical Directors' committee has opposed the list

> because they (we) felt the

> list was incongruent with the science related to

> prehospital care. As I

> understand it, the EMS Committee also was against

> the proposal because of

> the cost (approximately $22,000 per

> ambulance--although I may be wrong

> here). How do EMS providers feel about GETAC

> recommending to DSHS extensive

> equipment lists?

>

> BEB

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, Texas

>

> Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

> http://proemseducators.com/index.html

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

salvador capuchino <scapuchino@y...> wrote:

>

> Well why should I be required to carry this stuff when

> all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis transfers

> and the such.

Don't worry. It would only apply to EMS agencies.

Rob

[Guest guest]

salvador capuchino <scapuchino@y...> wrote:

>

> Well why should I be required to carry this stuff when

> all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis transfers

> and the such.

Don't worry. It would only apply to EMS agencies.

Rob

[Guest guest]

salvador capuchino <scapuchino@y...> wrote:

>

> Well why should I be required to carry this stuff when

> all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis transfers

> and the such.

Don't worry. It would only apply to EMS agencies.

Rob

[Guest guest]

minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on

Texas

ambulances.

Where do you see EMS Rob. Instigator!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- dustdevil31 wrote:

> salvador capuchino <scapuchino@y...> wrote:

> >

> > Well why should I be required to carry this stuff

> when

> > all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis

> transfers

> > and the such.

>

> Don't worry. It would only apply to EMS agencies.

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on

Texas

ambulances.

Where do you see EMS Rob. Instigator!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- dustdevil31 wrote:

> salvador capuchino <scapuchino@y...> wrote:

> >

> > Well why should I be required to carry this stuff

> when

> > all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis

> transfers

> > and the such.

>

> Don't worry. It would only apply to EMS agencies.

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on

Texas

ambulances.

Where do you see EMS Rob. Instigator!!!

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-Paramedic

--- dustdevil31 wrote:

> salvador capuchino <scapuchino@y...> wrote:

> >

> > Well why should I be required to carry this stuff

> when

> > all I am doing 99.9% of the time is dialysis

> transfers

> > and the such.

>

> Don't worry. It would only apply to EMS agencies.

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

jenherv@... writes:

don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just that?

How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

I like the idea. I recently moved from the Houston area to the Dallas area

and am amazed at the gap in the standard of care we have in Texas from

region to region. I couldn't believe that the ALS units here aren't all 12

lead capable! We've got to raise the bar in Texas and provide better care

to our population. I think a minimal equipment list is a way to get that

going in the right direction...as long as the medics using the equipment are

familiar with it and services don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded

equipment. I'm thinking Braselow tape, pedi-sized BVM, ETT, APAP, Buretrol,

and butterflies are a good start.

Hervey, NREMT-P

Heath, TX

>

> As many of you may know, the Pediatric Committee of GETAC has proposed a

> minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on Texas ambulances. The

> Medical Directors' committee has opposed the list because they (we) felt

> the

> list was incongruent with the science related to prehospital care. As I

> understand it, the EMS Committee also was against the proposal because of

> the cost (approximately $22,000 per ambulance--although I may be wrong

> here). How do EMS providers feel about GETAC recommending to DSHS

> extensive

> equipment lists?

>

> BEB

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, Texas

>

> Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

> http://proemseducators.com/index.html

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like the idea. I recently moved from the Houston area to the Dallas area

and am amazed at the gap in the standard of care we have in Texas from

region to region. I couldn't believe that the ALS units here aren't all 12

lead capable! We've got to raise the bar in Texas and provide better care

to our population. I think a minimal equipment list is a way to get that

going in the right direction...as long as the medics using the equipment are

familiar with it and services don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded

equipment. I'm thinking Braselow tape, pedi-sized BVM, ETT, APAP, Buretrol,

and butterflies are a good start.

Hervey, NREMT-P

Heath, TX

>

> As many of you may know, the Pediatric Committee of GETAC has proposed a

> minimal equipment list for pediatric equipment on Texas ambulances. The

> Medical Directors' committee has opposed the list because they (we) felt

> the

> list was incongruent with the science related to prehospital care. As I

> understand it, the EMS Committee also was against the proposal because of

> the cost (approximately $22,000 per ambulance--although I may be wrong

> here). How do EMS providers feel about GETAC recommending to DSHS

> extensive

> equipment lists?

>

> BEB

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, Texas

>

> Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

> http://proemseducators.com/index.html

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What cost do you put on a kids life? $ 22k is $ 22k...how much are you

willing to spend on a kid to get him better treatment? How little are you

willing to spend on them?

I'm all for local control but there is a wide expanse of how well we take

care of patients from community to community.

S. Suprun Jr., NREMT-P, CCEMT-P

csuprun@...

www.consurgo.org

Prepare. Respond. Overcome.

Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

jenherv@... writes:

don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just that?

How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Guest guest]

I'm not supporting the $22000...that's WAY TOO HIGH!!! I think the minimal

needed should only cost a fraction of that.

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jenherv@... writes:

>

> don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

>

>

> Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just

> that?

>

> How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem isn't in the amount of money we spend on equipment...it's

getting everyone trained to know how to use the baseline ALS equipment

well. We wouldn't have to spend money on IV infusion pumps if everyone

would really become proficient at calculating drips, using a Buretrol,

Broselow tape, etc. We need to have a baseline for everyone. From there,

local medical direction can take it as far as it wants (and I hope they go

FAR). It's the rural places that don't necessarily have ED physicians as

medical directors that need some guidance and that's where GETAC can come in

and mandate minimum equipment (and training on how to use it).

>

> What cost do you put on a kids life? $ 22k is $ 22k...how much are you

> willing to spend on a kid to get him better treatment? How little are you

> willing to spend on them?

>

> I'm all for local control but there is a wide expanse of how well we take

> care of patients from community to community.

>

>

>

> S. Suprun Jr., NREMT-P, CCEMT-P

> csuprun@...

> www.consurgo.org

> Prepare. Respond. Overcome.

>

>

> Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jenherv@... writes:

>

> don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

>

>

> Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just

> that?

>

> How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by

> the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with almost everything you said, but the bottom line is you have to

have some baseline ALS equipment. Do we need pedi cannuals...nope probably

not. We certainly don't need Propac transport monitors.

Do we need medics who can do simple med math to include drips, etc. Yup,

I'm all for it.

My concern is instead of training up, we are hiding behind " Oh no! It's too

much money! " Ultimately whether the number is five grand or twenty-two

grand is inconsequential because there will be that much money plus probably

that much more money to train everyone up to the standard. I think this is

where people get cold feet -- the old " I'm allergic to pediatrics " issue and

not wanting to train to a point where they are comfortable dealing with peds

and their equipment.

JMHO

S. Suprun Jr., NREMT-P, CCEMT-P

csuprun@...

www.consurgo.org

Prepare. Respond. Overcome.

Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jenherv@... writes:

>

> don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

>

>

> Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just

> that?

>

> How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by

> the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem is, say, you put pedi laryngoscopes on a rural service where the

ambulance only does 1 pediatric intubation every two years (the paramedics

may do 0), Thus, it might be better to have the paramedics simply bag the

patient. But, then you would have to defend why you did not use equipment

that was on the ambulance. Then, you are into explaining skill decay and

rust-out and the Gausche-Hill UCLA study. It is best to keep it a local

issue.

In terms of pediatric intubations, how many paramedics and EMT-Is get to

perform 3-5 supervised pediatric intubations in the hospital before going to

the field. Most do their first pediatric intubation in the field without

supervision.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Hervey

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:22 AM

To:

Subject: Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

The problem isn't in the amount of money we spend on equipment...it's

getting everyone trained to know how to use the baseline ALS equipment

well. We wouldn't have to spend money on IV infusion pumps if everyone

would really become proficient at calculating drips, using a Buretrol,

Broselow tape, etc. We need to have a baseline for everyone. From there,

local medical direction can take it as far as it wants (and I hope they go

FAR). It's the rural places that don't necessarily have ED physicians as

medical directors that need some guidance and that's where GETAC can come in

and mandate minimum equipment (and training on how to use it).

>

> What cost do you put on a kids life? $ 22k is $ 22k...how much are you

> willing to spend on a kid to get him better treatment? How little are you

> willing to spend on them?

>

> I'm all for local control but there is a wide expanse of how well we take

> care of patients from community to community.

>

>

>

> S. Suprun Jr., NREMT-P, CCEMT-P

> csuprun@...

> www.consurgo.org

> Prepare. Respond. Overcome.

>

>

> Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jenherv@... writes:

>

> don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

>

>

> Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just

> that?

>

> How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by

> the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem is, say, you put pedi laryngoscopes on a rural service where the

ambulance only does 1 pediatric intubation every two years (the paramedics

may do 0), Thus, it might be better to have the paramedics simply bag the

patient. But, then you would have to defend why you did not use equipment

that was on the ambulance. Then, you are into explaining skill decay and

rust-out and the Gausche-Hill UCLA study. It is best to keep it a local

issue.

In terms of pediatric intubations, how many paramedics and EMT-Is get to

perform 3-5 supervised pediatric intubations in the hospital before going to

the field. Most do their first pediatric intubation in the field without

supervision.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Hervey

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:22 AM

To:

Subject: Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

The problem isn't in the amount of money we spend on equipment...it's

getting everyone trained to know how to use the baseline ALS equipment

well. We wouldn't have to spend money on IV infusion pumps if everyone

would really become proficient at calculating drips, using a Buretrol,

Broselow tape, etc. We need to have a baseline for everyone. From there,

local medical direction can take it as far as it wants (and I hope they go

FAR). It's the rural places that don't necessarily have ED physicians as

medical directors that need some guidance and that's where GETAC can come in

and mandate minimum equipment (and training on how to use it).

>

> What cost do you put on a kids life? $ 22k is $ 22k...how much are you

> willing to spend on a kid to get him better treatment? How little are you

> willing to spend on them?

>

> I'm all for local control but there is a wide expanse of how well we take

> care of patients from community to community.

>

>

>

> S. Suprun Jr., NREMT-P, CCEMT-P

> csuprun@...

> www.consurgo.org

> Prepare. Respond. Overcome.

>

>

> Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jenherv@... writes:

>

> don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

>

>

> Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just

> that?

>

> How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

> only

> for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

> by

> the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem is, say, you put pedi laryngoscopes on a rural service where the

ambulance only does 1 pediatric intubation every two years (the paramedics

may do 0), Thus, it might be better to have the paramedics simply bag the

patient. But, then you would have to defend why you did not use equipment

that was on the ambulance. Then, you are into explaining skill decay and

rust-out and the Gausche-Hill UCLA study. It is best to keep it a local

issue.

In terms of pediatric intubations, how many paramedics and EMT-Is get to

perform 3-5 supervised pediatric intubations in the hospital before going to

the field. Most do their first pediatric intubation in the field without

supervision.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Hervey

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:22 AM

To:

Subject: Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

The problem isn't in the amount of money we spend on equipment...it's

getting everyone trained to know how to use the baseline ALS equipment

well. We wouldn't have to spend money on IV infusion pumps if everyone

would really become proficient at calculating drips, using a Buretrol,

Broselow tape, etc. We need to have a baseline for everyone. From there,

local medical direction can take it as far as it wants (and I hope they go

FAR). It's the rural places that don't necessarily have ED physicians as

medical directors that need some guidance and that's where GETAC can come in

and mandate minimum equipment (and training on how to use it).

>

> What cost do you put on a kids life? $ 22k is $ 22k...how much are you

> willing to spend on a kid to get him better treatment? How little are you

> willing to spend on them?

>

> I'm all for local control but there is a wide expanse of how well we take

> care of patients from community to community.

>

>

>

> S. Suprun Jr., NREMT-P, CCEMT-P

> csuprun@...

> www.consurgo.org

> Prepare. Respond. Overcome.

>

>

> Re: New Thread--Pedi ALS Equipment

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:44:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> jenherv@... writes:

>

> don't have to take a huge hit buying unneeded equipment.

>

>

> Yea but isn't 22,000 per truck (using Dr. B's number) by default just

> that?

>

> How can we justify 22,000 bucks?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

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> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

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> the

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