Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 In a message dated 3/20/2004 12:30:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, dustidak@... writes: My daughter (age 14) has a three hour bus trip to and from school each week. We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the bus. All thrre students are deaf or severely hearing impaired. I need some help to find a way to combat this. Any imput will be greatly appreciated. Thank you Kim Clausen First, in writing, I would request an explanation as to why they are imposing this rule. Based on the answers they give, I would fight with logic statements. If it is something as ludicrous as the drive doesn't know what they're saying because he/she doesn't sign, then I'd point out that they are not planning to overthrow the bus driver and hijack the bus to Cuba, or Vegas. They are most likely discussing what someone wore or their science homework -- the stuff kids usually talk about. Having my son in my house, I can understand if the talking that accomapanies the signing is too loud for the driver to handle for 3 hours. In which case I'd requiest that the kids talk with their hands only, as an accomodation to the driver's sanity. I know that I have to go to the other end of the house occassionally for some quiet, and a long car ride can drive me to distraction if Ian does not put on his headphones and listen to his music, or read a book for a while. Three hours is a very long time for any child to remain silent so I would state I found it unduy restraining (IMHO an unjustifiable requirement) and request that they justify their new rule and go from there. -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 How can they not allow them to sign? I don't understand their reasoning for this, unless the other students are not allowed to talk. not allowed to sign My daughter (age 14) has a three hour bus trip to and from school each week. We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the bus. All thrre students are deaf or severely hearing impaired. I need some help to find a way to combat this. Any imput will be greatly appreciated. Thank you Kim Clausen All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 <<We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. >> Perhaps you should make them add that the bus driver will not be allowed to speak? :-) Okay, sorry, not helpful. I can imagine all sorts of reasons for this rule, but none of them make sense to me. If the driver is paranoid that he/she is being discussed, well, that goes on with hearing and speaking children too. The only safety issue this would create is if the students are turning around in their seats to sign but it's not reason enough, in my opinion, to forbid social interaction. Since there are only Deaf or HOH kids on the bus, this can't be a case of leaving other kids out. Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a woman in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and was shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. (It was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of rare incident is their concern? Regardless, while I know that having control while on the bus is in the best interests of the driver, I would consider this a violation of my child's rights under the ADA, as well as a violation of your daughter's right to a FAPE. After all, hearing children have a right to social interaction. I'd require an immediate explanation in writing. CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 <<We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. >> Perhaps you should make them add that the bus driver will not be allowed to speak? :-) Okay, sorry, not helpful. I can imagine all sorts of reasons for this rule, but none of them make sense to me. If the driver is paranoid that he/she is being discussed, well, that goes on with hearing and speaking children too. The only safety issue this would create is if the students are turning around in their seats to sign but it's not reason enough, in my opinion, to forbid social interaction. Since there are only Deaf or HOH kids on the bus, this can't be a case of leaving other kids out. Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a woman in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and was shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. (It was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of rare incident is their concern? Regardless, while I know that having control while on the bus is in the best interests of the driver, I would consider this a violation of my child's rights under the ADA, as well as a violation of your daughter's right to a FAPE. After all, hearing children have a right to social interaction. I'd require an immediate explanation in writing. CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 <<We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. >> Perhaps you should make them add that the bus driver will not be allowed to speak? :-) Okay, sorry, not helpful. I can imagine all sorts of reasons for this rule, but none of them make sense to me. If the driver is paranoid that he/she is being discussed, well, that goes on with hearing and speaking children too. The only safety issue this would create is if the students are turning around in their seats to sign but it's not reason enough, in my opinion, to forbid social interaction. Since there are only Deaf or HOH kids on the bus, this can't be a case of leaving other kids out. Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a woman in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and was shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. (It was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of rare incident is their concern? Regardless, while I know that having control while on the bus is in the best interests of the driver, I would consider this a violation of my child's rights under the ADA, as well as a violation of your daughter's right to a FAPE. After all, hearing children have a right to social interaction. I'd require an immediate explanation in writing. CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 This is beyond belief! If you want to contact me off list, I'll be happy to arrange to call these people and hopefully have the matter resolved to your satisfaction in a few days at the most. It should only take a few calls to the State Dept of Ed and the U.S. Dept of Education Office for Civil Rights. Your child doesn't even have to be identified. not allowed to sign > My daughter (age 14) has a three hour bus trip to and from school > each week. We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. All thrre students are deaf or severely hearing impaired. I need > some help to find a way to combat this. Any imput will be greatly > appreciated. > > Thank you > > Kim Clausen > > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 This is beyond belief! If you want to contact me off list, I'll be happy to arrange to call these people and hopefully have the matter resolved to your satisfaction in a few days at the most. It should only take a few calls to the State Dept of Ed and the U.S. Dept of Education Office for Civil Rights. Your child doesn't even have to be identified. not allowed to sign > My daughter (age 14) has a three hour bus trip to and from school > each week. We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. All thrre students are deaf or severely hearing impaired. I need > some help to find a way to combat this. Any imput will be greatly > appreciated. > > Thank you > > Kim Clausen > > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 This is beyond belief! If you want to contact me off list, I'll be happy to arrange to call these people and hopefully have the matter resolved to your satisfaction in a few days at the most. It should only take a few calls to the State Dept of Ed and the U.S. Dept of Education Office for Civil Rights. Your child doesn't even have to be identified. not allowed to sign > My daughter (age 14) has a three hour bus trip to and from school > each week. We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. All thrre students are deaf or severely hearing impaired. I need > some help to find a way to combat this. Any imput will be greatly > appreciated. > > Thank you > > Kim Clausen > > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 I think your arguement has to be if it were a short ride like 30 min. no speaking or signing (focus on if the other kids aren't allowed to speak because if they are then your child should be able to speak with her hands) allowed on the bus ride. I do remember when I was a kid with under 30 min. ride the driver had a no talking rule because it just got too too loud. However a 3 hour drive is way too long to go without talking whether with your mouth or your hands and talking with your hands has got to be a heck of a lot less distracting to the driver than verbal talking. That is what you need to argue that 3 hours is way too long to go without talking that is too much to ask of children. Re: not allowed to sign <<We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. >> Perhaps you should make them add that the bus driver will not be allowed to speak? :-) Okay, sorry, not helpful. I can imagine all sorts of reasons for this rule, but none of them make sense to me. If the driver is paranoid that he/she is being discussed, well, that goes on with hearing and speaking children too. The only safety issue this would create is if the students are turning around in their seats to sign but it's not reason enough, in my opinion, to forbid social interaction. Since there are only Deaf or HOH kids on the bus, this can't be a case of leaving other kids out. Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a woman in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and was shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. (It was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of rare incident is their concern? Regardless, while I know that having control while on the bus is in the best interests of the driver, I would consider this a violation of my child's rights under the ADA, as well as a violation of your daughter's right to a FAPE. After all, hearing children have a right to social interaction. I'd require an immediate explanation in writing. CB All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 I think your arguement has to be if it were a short ride like 30 min. no speaking or signing (focus on if the other kids aren't allowed to speak because if they are then your child should be able to speak with her hands) allowed on the bus ride. I do remember when I was a kid with under 30 min. ride the driver had a no talking rule because it just got too too loud. However a 3 hour drive is way too long to go without talking whether with your mouth or your hands and talking with your hands has got to be a heck of a lot less distracting to the driver than verbal talking. That is what you need to argue that 3 hours is way too long to go without talking that is too much to ask of children. Re: not allowed to sign <<We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. >> Perhaps you should make them add that the bus driver will not be allowed to speak? :-) Okay, sorry, not helpful. I can imagine all sorts of reasons for this rule, but none of them make sense to me. If the driver is paranoid that he/she is being discussed, well, that goes on with hearing and speaking children too. The only safety issue this would create is if the students are turning around in their seats to sign but it's not reason enough, in my opinion, to forbid social interaction. Since there are only Deaf or HOH kids on the bus, this can't be a case of leaving other kids out. Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a woman in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and was shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. (It was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of rare incident is their concern? Regardless, while I know that having control while on the bus is in the best interests of the driver, I would consider this a violation of my child's rights under the ADA, as well as a violation of your daughter's right to a FAPE. After all, hearing children have a right to social interaction. I'd require an immediate explanation in writing. CB All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 I think your arguement has to be if it were a short ride like 30 min. no speaking or signing (focus on if the other kids aren't allowed to speak because if they are then your child should be able to speak with her hands) allowed on the bus ride. I do remember when I was a kid with under 30 min. ride the driver had a no talking rule because it just got too too loud. However a 3 hour drive is way too long to go without talking whether with your mouth or your hands and talking with your hands has got to be a heck of a lot less distracting to the driver than verbal talking. That is what you need to argue that 3 hours is way too long to go without talking that is too much to ask of children. Re: not allowed to sign <<We were notified at 5:30 PM on Friday that the three > students that ride the bus will not be allowed to sign while on the > bus. >> Perhaps you should make them add that the bus driver will not be allowed to speak? :-) Okay, sorry, not helpful. I can imagine all sorts of reasons for this rule, but none of them make sense to me. If the driver is paranoid that he/she is being discussed, well, that goes on with hearing and speaking children too. The only safety issue this would create is if the students are turning around in their seats to sign but it's not reason enough, in my opinion, to forbid social interaction. Since there are only Deaf or HOH kids on the bus, this can't be a case of leaving other kids out. Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a woman in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and was shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. (It was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of rare incident is their concern? Regardless, while I know that having control while on the bus is in the best interests of the driver, I would consider this a violation of my child's rights under the ADA, as well as a violation of your daughter's right to a FAPE. After all, hearing children have a right to social interaction. I'd require an immediate explanation in writing. CB All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Are all kids on the bus sign users? Otherwise, maybe professionals/teachers or parents are worried their non-sign users might be influenced too much and pick up signs? I don't have any first-hand experience with that but I heard from a friend of mine that children are not allowed to sign in a school for the deaf's playground here in Cologne. Hope you'll be able to sort things out to your satisfaction soon. Telling somebody whose first language is sign NOT to sign sounds very discriminating to me. Good luck, Sabine in Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Along the lines of what said, a short trip with no talking or signing is understandable. My hearing child rode a bus the beginning of the year that was a " silent bus " and they weren't all;owed to talk at all, but it was less than a 30 ride for the entire route. (Even if these are no voice signers and there are kids that hear the kids that talk will complain that they can " talk " so why can't we...you know kids!) Riding quietly about drove my son crazy since he has ADHD and he was only on the bus for about 8 minutes. Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Along the lines of what said, a short trip with no talking or signing is understandable. My hearing child rode a bus the beginning of the year that was a " silent bus " and they weren't all;owed to talk at all, but it was less than a 30 ride for the entire route. (Even if these are no voice signers and there are kids that hear the kids that talk will complain that they can " talk " so why can't we...you know kids!) Riding quietly about drove my son crazy since he has ADHD and he was only on the bus for about 8 minutes. Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 Along the lines of what said, a short trip with no talking or signing is understandable. My hearing child rode a bus the beginning of the year that was a " silent bus " and they weren't all;owed to talk at all, but it was less than a 30 ride for the entire route. (Even if these are no voice signers and there are kids that hear the kids that talk will complain that they can " talk " so why can't we...you know kids!) Riding quietly about drove my son crazy since he has ADHD and he was only on the bus for about 8 minutes. Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 > Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a >woman > in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and >was > shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. >(It > was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing > publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of > rare incident is their concern? > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a teenage boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is close to what you have here though. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 > Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a >woman > in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and >was > shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. >(It > was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing > publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of > rare incident is their concern? > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a teenage boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is close to what you have here though. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2004 Report Share Posted March 21, 2004 > Which city/state are you in? I heard of one tragic situation where a >woman > in Los Angeles (I think) was signing to her husband while in the car and >was > shot by gang members because they thought she was flashing gang signs. >(It > was years ago.) That's truly the only time I've ever heard of signing > publicly having put someone in danger. Is it possible that this type of > rare incident is their concern? > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a teenage boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is close to what you have here though. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a > teenage > boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is > close to what you have here though.>> Hi , Ah, your email made me hit the web because I so distinctly remembered this being a woman who had been been involved. Since the LA Times search engine was down, I went instead to the urban legends website, to see if maybe I'd been caught in one of those. Being originally from L.A., though, I was sure I'd read it in the Times. Someone on the urban legends site has done several searches and turned up a few stories and legitimate citations of Deaf people being involved in violence against them where it was " thought " to be because their signing may have been confused for gang signs. It's at http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/gangs_kill_sign_language_users_more.html. I did find the story I was remembering, which occurred in February of 1994 in Pico , just outside LA. (The woman lived, by the way.) This website page also cited a few more similar stories from the LA area, including one where a woman died, but many of these seem even more " iffy " in terms of why the violence occurred. In fact, in one story, the person's defense in court was that the sign language was perceived as " threatening " but unfortunately for this guy, none of his friends would back him up on that. No honor among murderers, I guess. :-0 Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed along an urban legend! Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a > teenage > boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is > close to what you have here though.>> Hi , Ah, your email made me hit the web because I so distinctly remembered this being a woman who had been been involved. Since the LA Times search engine was down, I went instead to the urban legends website, to see if maybe I'd been caught in one of those. Being originally from L.A., though, I was sure I'd read it in the Times. Someone on the urban legends site has done several searches and turned up a few stories and legitimate citations of Deaf people being involved in violence against them where it was " thought " to be because their signing may have been confused for gang signs. It's at http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/gangs_kill_sign_language_users_more.html. I did find the story I was remembering, which occurred in February of 1994 in Pico , just outside LA. (The woman lived, by the way.) This website page also cited a few more similar stories from the LA area, including one where a woman died, but many of these seem even more " iffy " in terms of why the violence occurred. In fact, in one story, the person's defense in court was that the sign language was perceived as " threatening " but unfortunately for this guy, none of his friends would back him up on that. No honor among murderers, I guess. :-0 Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed along an urban legend! Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a > teenage > boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is > close to what you have here though.>> Hi , Ah, your email made me hit the web because I so distinctly remembered this being a woman who had been been involved. Since the LA Times search engine was down, I went instead to the urban legends website, to see if maybe I'd been caught in one of those. Being originally from L.A., though, I was sure I'd read it in the Times. Someone on the urban legends site has done several searches and turned up a few stories and legitimate citations of Deaf people being involved in violence against them where it was " thought " to be because their signing may have been confused for gang signs. It's at http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/gangs_kill_sign_language_users_more.html. I did find the story I was remembering, which occurred in February of 1994 in Pico , just outside LA. (The woman lived, by the way.) This website page also cited a few more similar stories from the LA area, including one where a woman died, but many of these seem even more " iffy " in terms of why the violence occurred. In fact, in one story, the person's defense in court was that the sign language was perceived as " threatening " but unfortunately for this guy, none of his friends would back him up on that. No honor among murderers, I guess. :-0 Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed along an urban legend! Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I grew up in LA and have also heard of issues with people signing and getting shot. Of course on a school bus that isn't going to be a problem. It's not like Deaf people are going to stop talking either because they could get shot, but it really sucks that there are people who will shoot others because of some territory thing, like we are animals, but that's a whole other story. The point is even if that is the basis for this rule that she can't sign on the bus, it is unfounded and rediculous. That's like saying you aren't allowed to look anyone in the eye because they might beat you up, also true in LA with some people, but it's not like you would never look someone in the face. Point is they can't expect your daughter not to talk for 3 hours no matter what their reasoning is. Re: not allowed to sign > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a > teenage > boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is > close to what you have here though.>> Hi , Ah, your email made me hit the web because I so distinctly remembered this being a woman who had been been involved. Since the LA Times search engine was down, I went instead to the urban legends website, to see if maybe I'd been caught in one of those. Being originally from L.A., though, I was sure I'd read it in the Times. Someone on the urban legends site has done several searches and turned up a few stories and legitimate citations of Deaf people being involved in violence against them where it was " thought " to be because their signing may have been confused for gang signs. It's at http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/gangs_kill_sign_language_users_more.html. I did find the story I was remembering, which occurred in February of 1994 in Pico , just outside LA. (The woman lived, by the way.) This website page also cited a few more similar stories from the LA area, including one where a woman died, but many of these seem even more " iffy " in terms of why the violence occurred. In fact, in one story, the person's defense in court was that the sign language was perceived as " threatening " but unfortunately for this guy, none of his friends would back him up on that. No honor among murderers, I guess. :-0 Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed along an urban legend! Carol All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I grew up in LA and have also heard of issues with people signing and getting shot. Of course on a school bus that isn't going to be a problem. It's not like Deaf people are going to stop talking either because they could get shot, but it really sucks that there are people who will shoot others because of some territory thing, like we are animals, but that's a whole other story. The point is even if that is the basis for this rule that she can't sign on the bus, it is unfounded and rediculous. That's like saying you aren't allowed to look anyone in the eye because they might beat you up, also true in LA with some people, but it's not like you would never look someone in the face. Point is they can't expect your daughter not to talk for 3 hours no matter what their reasoning is. Re: not allowed to sign > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a > teenage > boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is > close to what you have here though.>> Hi , Ah, your email made me hit the web because I so distinctly remembered this being a woman who had been been involved. Since the LA Times search engine was down, I went instead to the urban legends website, to see if maybe I'd been caught in one of those. Being originally from L.A., though, I was sure I'd read it in the Times. Someone on the urban legends site has done several searches and turned up a few stories and legitimate citations of Deaf people being involved in violence against them where it was " thought " to be because their signing may have been confused for gang signs. It's at http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/gangs_kill_sign_language_users_more.html. I did find the story I was remembering, which occurred in February of 1994 in Pico , just outside LA. (The woman lived, by the way.) This website page also cited a few more similar stories from the LA area, including one where a woman died, but many of these seem even more " iffy " in terms of why the violence occurred. In fact, in one story, the person's defense in court was that the sign language was perceived as " threatening " but unfortunately for this guy, none of his friends would back him up on that. No honor among murderers, I guess. :-0 Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed along an urban legend! Carol All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 I grew up in LA and have also heard of issues with people signing and getting shot. Of course on a school bus that isn't going to be a problem. It's not like Deaf people are going to stop talking either because they could get shot, but it really sucks that there are people who will shoot others because of some territory thing, like we are animals, but that's a whole other story. The point is even if that is the basis for this rule that she can't sign on the bus, it is unfounded and rediculous. That's like saying you aren't allowed to look anyone in the eye because they might beat you up, also true in LA with some people, but it's not like you would never look someone in the face. Point is they can't expect your daughter not to talk for 3 hours no matter what their reasoning is. Re: not allowed to sign > This happened in New York City on a subway in the mid 90s. It was a > teenage > boy. Had it happened in LA, I would have known about it. The story is > close to what you have here though.>> Hi , Ah, your email made me hit the web because I so distinctly remembered this being a woman who had been been involved. Since the LA Times search engine was down, I went instead to the urban legends website, to see if maybe I'd been caught in one of those. Being originally from L.A., though, I was sure I'd read it in the Times. Someone on the urban legends site has done several searches and turned up a few stories and legitimate citations of Deaf people being involved in violence against them where it was " thought " to be because their signing may have been confused for gang signs. It's at http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/gangs_kill_sign_language_users_more.html. I did find the story I was remembering, which occurred in February of 1994 in Pico , just outside LA. (The woman lived, by the way.) This website page also cited a few more similar stories from the LA area, including one where a woman died, but many of these seem even more " iffy " in terms of why the violence occurred. In fact, in one story, the person's defense in court was that the sign language was perceived as " threatening " but unfortunately for this guy, none of his friends would back him up on that. No honor among murderers, I guess. :-0 Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed along an urban legend! Carol All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Hi Carole, I stand corrected then. Apparently this happen(ed)(s) more than once, it does not sound like an uncommon occurence. I would not have known about it since it happened in the early 90s and I just learned Hayley was deaf in 1994. Thanks for setting ME straight - I am going to go to that site. > >Anyway, thanks for making me back myself up! I was hoping I hadn't passed >along an urban legend! > >Carol _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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