Re: premarin for women with AF

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 5:50:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bdavis66@... writes:

> I take prempro which is both estrogen and progesterone and have done so for

> many yearss Since my AFib seems to be much less troublesome to me than many

> others on this list, so I can't say if it contributes. I tried to go off

> HRT on a couple of occasions a year or so ago but felt so awful that my

> cardio and gyn said it was ok to continue it. The " awfulness " I felt had

> nothing to do with my heart but was total body aching and terrible

> depression and just over all feeling terrible.

>

Oh Brenta ... this concerns me mightily. I just went to a gyn appt. today

and this new doctor (new health plan) wants me to stop my hormones. I was on

Pempro for about a year 3 years ago, and for the past 2 have been on the same

hormones, but a half-dose of each. I did not specifically discuss my a-fib with

this doctor as it didn't occur to me it could affect gyn issues. My sense is

he is not a fan of HRT in any case ... I asked if stopping the hormones would

affect my libido which is healthy and which I enjoy and his comment was that

women in their 40s and 50s tend to have a decrease in libido anyway so what's

the difference? He was nice overall, but this " man " comment about a woman's

libido annoyed me more than a little. I responded that I LIKE my libido and he

wasn't answering my question. He said the HRT (even in half-dose) had

nothing to do with my libido and if I have it now it'll stay. For some reason,

though, I've been sad all day and worried and anxious about stopping the HRT.

Now

I read your post and am more worried than ever ... the magnesium has helped

enormously with my attacks, at least in frequency. Once they take hold, if the

magnesium doesn't stop them in 2 hours, they can last up to 24 hours or days

.... but I was having them several times a week, and I haven't had one (a

serious one) in about 4 weeks. The doctor today and I agreed that I'd cut back

....

start with taking them every other day for 1-2 months then every 3 days for a

month, etc. I'm scared about it all. I'm only 52. I don't want hot flashes

(worse than I get now) or other side effects ... any other women my age or in

the " menopause range " that can advise me? I don't know many women older than

me who have been through it that I can ask about it ... but it's getting me

down. Thanks, all.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 5:50:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bdavis66@... writes:

> I take prempro which is both estrogen and progesterone and have done so for

> many yearss Since my AFib seems to be much less troublesome to me than many

> others on this list, so I can't say if it contributes. I tried to go off

> HRT on a couple of occasions a year or so ago but felt so awful that my

> cardio and gyn said it was ok to continue it. The " awfulness " I felt had

> nothing to do with my heart but was total body aching and terrible

> depression and just over all feeling terrible.

>

Oh Brenta ... this concerns me mightily. I just went to a gyn appt. today

and this new doctor (new health plan) wants me to stop my hormones. I was on

Pempro for about a year 3 years ago, and for the past 2 have been on the same

hormones, but a half-dose of each. I did not specifically discuss my a-fib with

this doctor as it didn't occur to me it could affect gyn issues. My sense is

he is not a fan of HRT in any case ... I asked if stopping the hormones would

affect my libido which is healthy and which I enjoy and his comment was that

women in their 40s and 50s tend to have a decrease in libido anyway so what's

the difference? He was nice overall, but this " man " comment about a woman's

libido annoyed me more than a little. I responded that I LIKE my libido and he

wasn't answering my question. He said the HRT (even in half-dose) had

nothing to do with my libido and if I have it now it'll stay. For some reason,

though, I've been sad all day and worried and anxious about stopping the HRT.

Now

I read your post and am more worried than ever ... the magnesium has helped

enormously with my attacks, at least in frequency. Once they take hold, if the

magnesium doesn't stop them in 2 hours, they can last up to 24 hours or days

.... but I was having them several times a week, and I haven't had one (a

serious one) in about 4 weeks. The doctor today and I agreed that I'd cut back

....

start with taking them every other day for 1-2 months then every 3 days for a

month, etc. I'm scared about it all. I'm only 52. I don't want hot flashes

(worse than I get now) or other side effects ... any other women my age or in

the " menopause range " that can advise me? I don't know many women older than

me who have been through it that I can ask about it ... but it's getting me

down. Thanks, all.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 5:50:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bdavis66@... writes:

> I take prempro which is both estrogen and progesterone and have done so for

> many yearss Since my AFib seems to be much less troublesome to me than many

> others on this list, so I can't say if it contributes. I tried to go off

> HRT on a couple of occasions a year or so ago but felt so awful that my

> cardio and gyn said it was ok to continue it. The " awfulness " I felt had

> nothing to do with my heart but was total body aching and terrible

> depression and just over all feeling terrible.

>

Oh Brenta ... this concerns me mightily. I just went to a gyn appt. today

and this new doctor (new health plan) wants me to stop my hormones. I was on

Pempro for about a year 3 years ago, and for the past 2 have been on the same

hormones, but a half-dose of each. I did not specifically discuss my a-fib with

this doctor as it didn't occur to me it could affect gyn issues. My sense is

he is not a fan of HRT in any case ... I asked if stopping the hormones would

affect my libido which is healthy and which I enjoy and his comment was that

women in their 40s and 50s tend to have a decrease in libido anyway so what's

the difference? He was nice overall, but this " man " comment about a woman's

libido annoyed me more than a little. I responded that I LIKE my libido and he

wasn't answering my question. He said the HRT (even in half-dose) had

nothing to do with my libido and if I have it now it'll stay. For some reason,

though, I've been sad all day and worried and anxious about stopping the HRT.

Now

I read your post and am more worried than ever ... the magnesium has helped

enormously with my attacks, at least in frequency. Once they take hold, if the

magnesium doesn't stop them in 2 hours, they can last up to 24 hours or days

.... but I was having them several times a week, and I haven't had one (a

serious one) in about 4 weeks. The doctor today and I agreed that I'd cut back

....

start with taking them every other day for 1-2 months then every 3 days for a

month, etc. I'm scared about it all. I'm only 52. I don't want hot flashes

(worse than I get now) or other side effects ... any other women my age or in

the " menopause range " that can advise me? I don't know many women older than

me who have been through it that I can ask about it ... but it's getting me

down. Thanks, all.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

I was also on prempro for years but I ended up with 2 benign lumps being

removed and a third that surgery was being discussed for. At that time I

was unable to find an MD to help me get off the Prempro so I went to a

naturopathic doctor who gave me natural estrogen and progesterone creams

which I applied in decreasing amounts daily for a while then went off of all

together. I never felt bad at all, no problems coming off them as the

dosage was gradually decreased and the natural creams are much safer. So do

not worry about it, talk to your doctor and see if you can get the natural

creams for you and just go slowly decreasing them, get off the estrogen

first and just use the progesterone for a while and then se how you feel

without it. You can use the progesterone if you need it much more safely

than the estrogen and it will keep any symptoms at bay. Also, no episodes

of afib while decreasing or when I stopped using them altogether.

Barbara Kersten

Lothlorien Goldens

Lorien@...

http://www2.bccom.com/lorien/index.htm

Cassie, Jewel & Harry

Lori, Beren, Gilly, Junior & Arrie waiting at The Bridge

[Guest guest]

I've been on Prempro for over ten years. After the first abandoned clinical

study, I tried to go off it, and went ABSOLUTELY MAD. Soy and blahtiblahblah

herbal supplements ... no remedy whatsoever. My GP approved staying on it, and

actually recommended that I do so.

Then came the second study. Even he said, " Get off it now. "

My thinking is ... I have a cardiac condition ... what am I doing on this

stuff?? (Smaller arguments like sanity and sleep going by the wayside.) My GP

recommended a step-down program, and I'm down to 2/week with small little

hotflashes and rages. Next week, down to 1/week.

I'm still casting around in town for someone who'll deal with the " bioidentical

hormone " option.

It'd never occurred to me that HRT might be an a-f trigger, so I find it

interesting that your cardio would suggest that. Things that make you go Hmmmmm

....

That would only add to my affection (so kidding) for the (male-dominated, sorry

guys) medical profession, which has executed an unconscionable HRT marketing

program --in league with pharmaceutical companies, no doubt -- and hurting so

many women in the process. Overtaking Hmmmm, I say GRRRRRR.

Hi all:

Wanted to know if anyone knows anything about taking

premarin.

[Guest guest]

hppy1kat@... wrote:

> Hi all:

>

> Wanted to know if anyone knows anything about taking

> premarin.

>

Hi Kat,

Well I dont take Premarin, but Oestrogel, which is an estrogen replacement. I

have been taking it since I went into early meno at 38 yrs old...when the

trials were abandoned due to the risks they found, I lowered my dose gradually

(its a rub in gel, so I can do that easily) and my 'palpitations' as I then

thought they were, went berserk! I was having what I now know is AFib, nearly

continuously. I went to my Doc with it and told him I had lowered my dose, and

he

asked ' why did you do that? Put it back up again!'.

I told him I was concerned and he said the trials were for women using

progesterone and synthetic hormones at that and that trials hadnt yet been done

with this transdermal method of delivery and non synthetic estrogen alone.

However , since then, I have been diagnosed with AFib and trials have been done

with estrogen alone.

I worry about the increased stroke risk , so I asked my Cardiologist about

coming off it.

He shook his head and said its not necessary.

'With these things you have to weigh up one risk against another and in your

case, coming off it would probably worsen your Afib'.

I am more relaxed because of taking it, but it does still concern me

....before long I may broach the subject again with the cardiologist, and ask

more

questions such as regarding the increased stroke risk on estrogen, coupled with

the increased risk with Afib.

Haze , 47 yrs in UK

[Guest guest]

hppy1kat@... wrote:

> Hi all:

>

> Wanted to know if anyone knows anything about taking

> premarin.

>

Hi Kat,

Well I dont take Premarin, but Oestrogel, which is an estrogen replacement. I

have been taking it since I went into early meno at 38 yrs old...when the

trials were abandoned due to the risks they found, I lowered my dose gradually

(its a rub in gel, so I can do that easily) and my 'palpitations' as I then

thought they were, went berserk! I was having what I now know is AFib, nearly

continuously. I went to my Doc with it and told him I had lowered my dose, and

he

asked ' why did you do that? Put it back up again!'.

I told him I was concerned and he said the trials were for women using

progesterone and synthetic hormones at that and that trials hadnt yet been done

with this transdermal method of delivery and non synthetic estrogen alone.

However , since then, I have been diagnosed with AFib and trials have been done

with estrogen alone.

I worry about the increased stroke risk , so I asked my Cardiologist about

coming off it.

He shook his head and said its not necessary.

'With these things you have to weigh up one risk against another and in your

case, coming off it would probably worsen your Afib'.

I am more relaxed because of taking it, but it does still concern me

....before long I may broach the subject again with the cardiologist, and ask

more

questions such as regarding the increased stroke risk on estrogen, coupled with

the increased risk with Afib.

Haze , 47 yrs in UK

[Guest guest]

hppy1kat@... wrote:

> Hi all:

>

> Wanted to know if anyone knows anything about taking

> premarin.

>

Hi Kat,

Well I dont take Premarin, but Oestrogel, which is an estrogen replacement. I

have been taking it since I went into early meno at 38 yrs old...when the

trials were abandoned due to the risks they found, I lowered my dose gradually

(its a rub in gel, so I can do that easily) and my 'palpitations' as I then

thought they were, went berserk! I was having what I now know is AFib, nearly

continuously. I went to my Doc with it and told him I had lowered my dose, and

he

asked ' why did you do that? Put it back up again!'.

I told him I was concerned and he said the trials were for women using

progesterone and synthetic hormones at that and that trials hadnt yet been done

with this transdermal method of delivery and non synthetic estrogen alone.

However , since then, I have been diagnosed with AFib and trials have been done

with estrogen alone.

I worry about the increased stroke risk , so I asked my Cardiologist about

coming off it.

He shook his head and said its not necessary.

'With these things you have to weigh up one risk against another and in your

case, coming off it would probably worsen your Afib'.

I am more relaxed because of taking it, but it does still concern me

....before long I may broach the subject again with the cardiologist, and ask

more

questions such as regarding the increased stroke risk on estrogen, coupled with

the increased risk with Afib.

Haze , 47 yrs in UK

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all:

>

> Wanted to know if anyone knows anything about taking

> premarin. My cardio doc thinks that is a contributing

> factor to my AF. Makes me a little nervous because

> first reading talks about lawsuits and links to

> cancer. Has any of the women in the group ever taken

> this and if so, did it help with AF.

Kat, I didn't take Premarin because (most people don't know this)

it's production involves animal cruelty. It is from the urine of

pregnant mares and the horses are kept confined in stalls where they

can't even turn around, and constantly pregnant, with the foals often

killed.

I took Estrace and Prometrium instead, and they had absolutely no

effect on afib as far as I could tell. I stopped them when the news

came out a year or two ago about their actually making things worse

for various medical conditions instead of better, and there was no

change in my afib situation. I had been taking them for at least 7-8

years before I developed afib.

[Guest guest]

> I don't want hot flashes

> (worse than I get now) or other side effects ... any other women my

age or in

> the " menopause range " that can advise me? I don't know many women

older than

> me who have been through it that I can ask about it ... but it's

getting me

> down. Thanks, all.

>

> Toni

Hi, Toni and others in the same boat,

I've been off hrt for at least a year now, after taking it for about

ten years. I'm sixty.

I did notice hot flashes for awhile after stopping it, but they have

gone away. I'm told these are lessened if one tapers off instead of

going cold turkey, which is what I did. Since there's a real heart

risk with hrt, I felt it was worth the trade off.

I have only noticed one bad effect from being off it (my libido is

fine :-) That's my skin. Boy, has it gotten drier and more aged

looking. It took several months for that to show up. However, some

of it may be unconnected, as I have been too busy to moisturize,

etc. I was at the dermatologist's a day or so ago and came away with

a list of creams to combat this. Time will tell if this works.

[Guest guest]

> I don't want hot flashes

> (worse than I get now) or other side effects ... any other women my

age or in

> the " menopause range " that can advise me? I don't know many women

older than

> me who have been through it that I can ask about it ... but it's

getting me

> down. Thanks, all.

>

> Toni

Hi, Toni and others in the same boat,

I've been off hrt for at least a year now, after taking it for about

ten years. I'm sixty.

I did notice hot flashes for awhile after stopping it, but they have

gone away. I'm told these are lessened if one tapers off instead of

going cold turkey, which is what I did. Since there's a real heart

risk with hrt, I felt it was worth the trade off.

I have only noticed one bad effect from being off it (my libido is

fine :-) That's my skin. Boy, has it gotten drier and more aged

looking. It took several months for that to show up. However, some

of it may be unconnected, as I have been too busy to moisturize,

etc. I was at the dermatologist's a day or so ago and came away with

a list of creams to combat this. Time will tell if this works.

[Guest guest]

> I don't want hot flashes

> (worse than I get now) or other side effects ... any other women my

age or in

> the " menopause range " that can advise me? I don't know many women

older than

> me who have been through it that I can ask about it ... but it's

getting me

> down. Thanks, all.

>

> Toni

Hi, Toni and others in the same boat,

I've been off hrt for at least a year now, after taking it for about

ten years. I'm sixty.

I did notice hot flashes for awhile after stopping it, but they have

gone away. I'm told these are lessened if one tapers off instead of

going cold turkey, which is what I did. Since there's a real heart

risk with hrt, I felt it was worth the trade off.

I have only noticed one bad effect from being off it (my libido is

fine :-) That's my skin. Boy, has it gotten drier and more aged

looking. It took several months for that to show up. However, some

of it may be unconnected, as I have been too busy to moisturize,

etc. I was at the dermatologist's a day or so ago and came away with

a list of creams to combat this. Time will tell if this works.

[Guest guest]

> I told him I was concerned and he said the trials were for women

using

> progesterone and synthetic hormones at that and that trials hadnt

yet been done

> with this transdermal method of delivery and non synthetic

estrogen alone.

> However , since then, I have been diagnosed with AFib and trials

have been done

> with estrogen alone.

My old obgyn also was not sure the trials applied to the natural hrt

I was taking. They haven't yet, to my knowledge, done trials with

estrace but have one about to start. I figured, it's my heart,

better safe than sorry.

[Guest guest]

> I told him I was concerned and he said the trials were for women

using

> progesterone and synthetic hormones at that and that trials hadnt

yet been done

> with this transdermal method of delivery and non synthetic

estrogen alone.

> However , since then, I have been diagnosed with AFib and trials

have been done

> with estrogen alone.

My old obgyn also was not sure the trials applied to the natural hrt

I was taking. They haven't yet, to my knowledge, done trials with

estrace but have one about to start. I figured, it's my heart,

better safe than sorry.

[Guest guest]

> I told him I was concerned and he said the trials were for women

using

> progesterone and synthetic hormones at that and that trials hadnt

yet been done

> with this transdermal method of delivery and non synthetic

estrogen alone.

> However , since then, I have been diagnosed with AFib and trials

have been done

> with estrogen alone.

My old obgyn also was not sure the trials applied to the natural hrt

I was taking. They haven't yet, to my knowledge, done trials with

estrace but have one about to start. I figured, it's my heart,

better safe than sorry.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 7:04:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

lorien@... writes:

> Also, no episodes

> of afib while decreasing or when I stopped using them altogether.

>

Thanks, Barbara ... that makes me feel much better. I've been stewing about

it all night! Sometimes living in my own head is SUCH a chore!

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 7:04:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

lorien@... writes:

> Also, no episodes

> of afib while decreasing or when I stopped using them altogether.

>

Thanks, Barbara ... that makes me feel much better. I've been stewing about

it all night! Sometimes living in my own head is SUCH a chore!

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 8:11:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

dpotts18@... writes:

> and I'm down to 2/week with small little hotflashes and rages.

Another thing the gyn (MALE) doctor said yesterday is that there is no

evidence that hormones cause " mood symptoms " such as depression and rages or any

of

the other PMS symptoms younger women complain of. This is why I am not fond

of male gyn's ... though this guy was a little more condescending than I've

experienced in awhile. He was nice though ... and didn't make an uncomfortable

situation any worse (which some of them do) ... again I think it's one of those

things where we have to just experiment and decide on our own ... the problem

here being that the HRT needs a prescription. He did write me one ... and

I'm going to do some internet research today and see if I can't either find a

natural alternative or at least some research to reassure me a bit more.

Getting old is not for the weak, heh?

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 8:11:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

dpotts18@... writes:

> and I'm down to 2/week with small little hotflashes and rages.

Another thing the gyn (MALE) doctor said yesterday is that there is no

evidence that hormones cause " mood symptoms " such as depression and rages or any

of

the other PMS symptoms younger women complain of. This is why I am not fond

of male gyn's ... though this guy was a little more condescending than I've

experienced in awhile. He was nice though ... and didn't make an uncomfortable

situation any worse (which some of them do) ... again I think it's one of those

things where we have to just experiment and decide on our own ... the problem

here being that the HRT needs a prescription. He did write me one ... and

I'm going to do some internet research today and see if I can't either find a

natural alternative or at least some research to reassure me a bit more.

Getting old is not for the weak, heh?

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/28/04 8:11:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

dpotts18@... writes:

> and I'm down to 2/week with small little hotflashes and rages.

Another thing the gyn (MALE) doctor said yesterday is that there is no

evidence that hormones cause " mood symptoms " such as depression and rages or any

of

the other PMS symptoms younger women complain of. This is why I am not fond

of male gyn's ... though this guy was a little more condescending than I've

experienced in awhile. He was nice though ... and didn't make an uncomfortable

situation any worse (which some of them do) ... again I think it's one of those

things where we have to just experiment and decide on our own ... the problem

here being that the HRT needs a prescription. He did write me one ... and

I'm going to do some internet research today and see if I can't either find a

natural alternative or at least some research to reassure me a bit more.

Getting old is not for the weak, heh?

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/04 4:01:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, trudyjh@...

writes:

> I have only noticed one bad effect from being off it (my libido is

> fine :-)

Yeah on the libido thing! ha ha ... and I have genetically oily skin, so

maybe I can avoid that part? I've heard the skin thing from others too ... All

the info from you all is really helpful ... thanks.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/04 4:01:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, trudyjh@...

writes:

> I have only noticed one bad effect from being off it (my libido is

> fine :-)

Yeah on the libido thing! ha ha ... and I have genetically oily skin, so

maybe I can avoid that part? I've heard the skin thing from others too ... All

the info from you all is really helpful ... thanks.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/04 4:01:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, trudyjh@...

writes:

> I have only noticed one bad effect from being off it (my libido is

> fine :-)

Yeah on the libido thing! ha ha ... and I have genetically oily skin, so

maybe I can avoid that part? I've heard the skin thing from others too ... All

the info from you all is really helpful ... thanks.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/04 6:37:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

bdavis66@... writes:

> My gyn said that the studies indicating that

> there might be some problem with prempro were done on the 2.5 progesterone

> pill, and there is no evidence yet that the 5 mg dose is a problem

I'm confused ... why would there be problems with a 2.5 mg dose (which is

what I take) and NOT a problem with double that dose at 5 mg?

Thanks for the input ... nice to know I'm not the only one going through

this.

Toni

CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/04 6:37:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

bdavis66@... writes:

> My gyn said that the studies indicating that

> there might be some problem with prempro were done on the 2.5 progesterone

> pill, and there is no evidence yet that the 5 mg dose is a problem

I'm confused ... why would there be problems with a 2.5 mg dose (which is

what I take) and NOT a problem with double that dose at 5 mg?

Thanks for the input ... nice to know I'm not the only one going through

this.

Toni

CA