Guest guest Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Bob These are all very well thought and well stated observations. I always respected your sit back and watch to find the problem way of approaching a problem. and once again you have nailed a large part of the problem right on the head. But the problems have been stated more than once and in more than one way. Now how do we fix them. We talk a good game about getting together " unionizing " etc. the thing is we have moved beyond the put up or shut up point. As you have stated here we have allowed the emergency medicine profession to pass us up and forget about us and move on. We allows the nursing profession to run us down and rumor has it they want to take us over and it almost appears overall we are going to roll over and let them. Why? As individuals everyone can talk tough But there is so much I am better than you BS going on that " WE " cannot get along. Until that happens well the old saying divided we fall united we stand. Over all can we as a group Grow up and act like a professional group and maybe earn what we want and stop acting like selfish children. That will start us in a positive direction. As you have told me in the past come to me with a problem only if you have a solution to it. There is an answer it is time for us all to find it and quit talking/bickering about it. Terrell EMT-P/CCEMTP bkellow@... wrote: I've been reading all of the posts related to working conditions, benefits, operational models, and the general acrimony associated with same. It's my view that we've arrived at this place in the EMS industry's history, not by circumstance, but rather by abdication. What has happened is the result of a confluence of events and beliefs over the past 30 or so years that have led to todays state of aggitation, frustration, intellectual paralysis and dissatisfaction. 1. EMS lacks a true medical professional identity. Despite early exitement about the possibilities of being legitimized and accepted as medical professionals (See: Emergency Medical Services ACT of 1973, et seq), the EMS workforce has yet to break through the barriers of professional and academic acceptance. Emergency medicine was designated as the 23rd medical specialty due almost exclusively to its relationship with the development of EMS systems. Unfortunately, emergency medicine and its professional medical society (ACEP) spent most of its time fighting for legitimacy with other medical and surrgical specialties. Viewed as the snotty-nosed kids on organized medicine's block, emergency physicians generally avoided the EMS workforce, which it viewed as a captive audience, and spent its time fighting turf wars with the surgical, pediatric and cardiology communities. Because the fight for collegial acceptance continues to this day, it is unlikely that emergency medicine will embrace (share power with) the EMS workforce in the grounds of professional and academic purity. Because EMS workers have not been invited to the " table " of emergency medicine, the industry continues to resonate on a closed frequency - and can't find the means to break out. In fact, the lamentations expressed on this list are a sterling example. The problem is that no one's listening because the workforce poses no political or economic threat. Thus, we are left to complain to one another - a practice that is not only guaranteed to go nowhere, but only serves to intensify growing frustration and dissatisfaction. 2. EMS workers openly resist academic responsibility and accountability. As EMS educators continue to emplore the workforce to become smarter and better versed in the ways of academic medicine, there seems to be an exponential level of resistance. Educators suggest that higher learning will result in higher incomes, while the workers sit with arms folded, intransigent, saying " show me the money first " , while viewing educators as being overly pedantic and self-serving. The truth is that organized medicine will not view the EMS workforce as being legitimate until same embraces the concept that true medical professionals investigate and contribute to a well defined body of knowledge, and do not hang their academic " hats " on non-peer reviewed contributions such as " Tricks of the Trade " , etc. In this regard, higher incomes and professional identity and acceptance have become tangled into one big " who'll blink first " amorphous empass. When was the last time you heard an EMS worker observe and state that a particllar prehospital procedure or piece of equipment wasn't working, and they were going to recommend to their medical director that it be abandoned as an EMS intervention? I thought so. And, yet again, no one on the outside is listening. 3, Payers are not paying more for EMS. Because of #1 and #2 above, payers are not convinced of the indispensibility of prehospital care. Federally sponsored studies on behalf of CMS, and most recently the OPALS study. have brought questions to the minds of payers. This combined with the workforce's reluctance to participate in its own professional, academic and economic destiny as led to the steady errosion of EMS wages in terms of ajdusted spending power over the past 30 years. As technology and manpower costs continued to climb, while reimbursement flattened out, EMS companies sought means to increase efficiencies - thus SSM and other systems of administrivia were born - not out of some perverse Machiavellian death wish for EMS workers, but rather out or economic necessity and long-term survival. Finally, we should consider that all of the eye-poking, hair pulling and infighting will not garner a shred of sympathy from EMS's medical overlords because they, too, had to struggle and fight for their recognition, autonomy and place in organized medicine back in the '60's and 70's. The emergence of some bright and energized new EMS leaders would go a long way in establishing a rational agenda for pulling the industry out of its " stuck on stupid " mentality. Bob Kellow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a message dated 10/8/2005 8:13:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, scapuchino@... writes: EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Yea that's an answer lets all do it ONE way an allow for not deviations. Sounds like a plan to me. A very bad one mind you but it is a plan. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a message dated 10/8/2005 8:13:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, scapuchino@... writes: EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Yea that's an answer lets all do it ONE way an allow for not deviations. Sounds like a plan to me. A very bad one mind you but it is a plan. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a message dated 10/8/2005 8:13:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, scapuchino@... writes: EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Yea that's an answer lets all do it ONE way an allow for not deviations. Sounds like a plan to me. A very bad one mind you but it is a plan. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a message dated 10/8/2005 9:07:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kim@... writes: Okay, I need to correct myself on this one. Goldstar article here: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/12701588.htm The key part of the article is posted below, but certainly does not imply that Goldstar is back up and running for " business as usual " . Their otherwise many stationary ambulances were temporarily subcontracted for the hurricane's onslaught. Goldstar is not up and running again, or are they? I'm not from the Houston area, so I can't answer that. I am not sure 100% on this but I do know that in the corporate world you can set up multiple lawyers of businesses. Example Mcs, I know they have multiple regions around the world, if one region is in some way impacted by say a federal indictment it may well not affect the other regions. I believe that AMR and R/M work like this but I am not 100% on that point. Perhaps Gene and or Wes or another resident Legal beagle can speak more to this point? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a message dated 10/8/2005 9:07:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kim@... writes: Okay, I need to correct myself on this one. Goldstar article here: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/12701588.htm The key part of the article is posted below, but certainly does not imply that Goldstar is back up and running for " business as usual " . Their otherwise many stationary ambulances were temporarily subcontracted for the hurricane's onslaught. Goldstar is not up and running again, or are they? I'm not from the Houston area, so I can't answer that. I am not sure 100% on this but I do know that in the corporate world you can set up multiple lawyers of businesses. Example Mcs, I know they have multiple regions around the world, if one region is in some way impacted by say a federal indictment it may well not affect the other regions. I believe that AMR and R/M work like this but I am not 100% on that point. Perhaps Gene and or Wes or another resident Legal beagle can speak more to this point? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: > Bob > > These are all very well thought and well stated > observations. I always respected your sit back and > watch to find the problem way of approaching a > problem. and once again you have nailed a large part > of the problem right on the head. > > But the problems have been stated more than once and > in more than one way. Now how do we fix them. We > talk a good game about getting together " unionizing " > etc. the thing is we have moved beyond the put up or > shut up point. > As you have stated here we have allowed the > emergency medicine profession to pass us up and > forget about us and move on. We allows the nursing > profession to run us down and rumor has it they want > to take us over and it almost appears overall we are > going to roll over and let them. > Why? > As individuals everyone can talk tough But there is > so much I am better than you BS going on that " WE " > cannot get along. Until that happens well the old > saying divided we fall united we stand. > Over all can we as a group Grow up and act like a > professional group and maybe earn what we want and > stop acting like selfish children. That will start > us in a positive direction. > > As you have told me in the past come to me with a > problem only if you have a solution to it. There is > an answer it is time for us all to find it and quit > talking/bickering about it. > > Terrell EMT-P/CCEMTP > > > > bkellow@... wrote: > I've been reading all of the posts related to > working conditions, benefits, > operational models, and the general acrimony > associated with same. It's my view > that we've arrived at this place in the EMS > industry's history, not by > circumstance, but rather by abdication. What has > happened is the result of a > confluence of events and beliefs over the past 30 or > so years that have led to > todays state of aggitation, frustration, > intellectual paralysis and > dissatisfaction. > > 1. EMS lacks a true medical professional identity. > > Despite early exitement about the possibilities of > being legitimized and > accepted as medical professionals (See: Emergency > Medical Services ACT of 1973, > et seq), the EMS workforce has yet to break through > the barriers of professional > and academic acceptance. > > Emergency medicine was designated as the 23rd > medical specialty due almost > exclusively to its relationship with the development > of EMS systems. > Unfortunately, emergency medicine and its > professional medical society (ACEP) > spent most of its time fighting for legitimacy with > other medical and surrgical > specialties. Viewed as the snotty-nosed kids on > organized medicine's block, > emergency physicians generally avoided the EMS > workforce, which it viewed as a > captive audience, and spent its time fighting turf > wars with the surgical, > pediatric and cardiology communities. Because the > fight for collegial > acceptance continues to this day, it is unlikely > that emergency medicine will > embrace (share power with) the EMS workforce in the > grounds of professional and > academic purity. > > Because EMS workers have not been invited to the > " table " of emergency medicine, > the industry continues to resonate on a closed > frequency - and can't find the > means to break out. In fact, the lamentations > expressed on this list are a > sterling example. The problem is that no one's > listening because the workforce > poses no political or economic threat. Thus, we are > left to complain to one > another - a practice that is not only guaranteed to > go nowhere, but only serves > to intensify growing frustration and > dissatisfaction. > > 2. EMS workers openly resist academic responsibility > and accountability. > > As EMS educators continue to emplore the workforce > to become smarter and better > versed in the ways of academic medicine, there seems > to be an exponential level > of resistance. Educators suggest that higher > learning will result in higher > incomes, while the workers sit with arms folded, > intransigent, saying " show me > the money first " , while viewing educators as being > overly pedantic and > self-serving. > > The truth is that organized medicine will not view > the EMS workforce as being > legitimate until same embraces the concept that true > medical professionals > investigate and contribute to a well defined body of > knowledge, and do not hang > their academic " hats " on non-peer reviewed > contributions such as " Tricks of the > Trade " , etc. In this regard, higher incomes and > professional identity and > acceptance have become tangled into one big " who'll > blink first " amorphous > empass. > > When was the last time you heard an EMS worker > observe and state that a > particllar prehospital procedure or piece of > equipment wasn't working, and they > were going to recommend to their medical director > that it be abandoned as an EMS > intervention? I thought so. And, yet again, no one > on the outside is listening. > > 3, Payers are not paying more for EMS. > > Because of #1 and #2 above, payers are not convinced > of the indispensibility of > prehospital care. Federally sponsored studies on > behalf of CMS, and most > recently the OPALS study. have brought questions to > the minds of payers. This > combined with the workforce's reluctance to > participate in its own > professional, academic and economic destiny as led > to the steady errosion of > EMS wages in terms of ajdusted spending power over > the past 30 years. > > As technology and manpower costs continued to climb, > while reimbursement > flattened out, EMS companies sought means to > increase efficiencies - thus SSM > and other systems of administrivia were born - not > out of some perverse > Machiavellian death wish for EMS workers, but rather > out or economic necessity > and long-term survival. > > Finally, we should consider that all of the > eye-poking, hair pulling and > infighting will not garner a shred of sympathy from > EMS's medical overlords > because they, too, had to struggle and fight for > their recognition, autonomy > and place in organized medicine back in the '60's > and 70's. The emergence of > some bright and energized new EMS leaders would go a > long way in establishing a > rational agenda for pulling the industry out of its > " stuck on stupid " mentality. > > Bob Kellow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: > Bob > > These are all very well thought and well stated > observations. I always respected your sit back and > watch to find the problem way of approaching a > problem. and once again you have nailed a large part > of the problem right on the head. > > But the problems have been stated more than once and > in more than one way. Now how do we fix them. We > talk a good game about getting together " unionizing " > etc. the thing is we have moved beyond the put up or > shut up point. > As you have stated here we have allowed the > emergency medicine profession to pass us up and > forget about us and move on. We allows the nursing > profession to run us down and rumor has it they want > to take us over and it almost appears overall we are > going to roll over and let them. > Why? > As individuals everyone can talk tough But there is > so much I am better than you BS going on that " WE " > cannot get along. Until that happens well the old > saying divided we fall united we stand. > Over all can we as a group Grow up and act like a > professional group and maybe earn what we want and > stop acting like selfish children. That will start > us in a positive direction. > > As you have told me in the past come to me with a > problem only if you have a solution to it. There is > an answer it is time for us all to find it and quit > talking/bickering about it. > > Terrell EMT-P/CCEMTP > > > > bkellow@... wrote: > I've been reading all of the posts related to > working conditions, benefits, > operational models, and the general acrimony > associated with same. It's my view > that we've arrived at this place in the EMS > industry's history, not by > circumstance, but rather by abdication. What has > happened is the result of a > confluence of events and beliefs over the past 30 or > so years that have led to > todays state of aggitation, frustration, > intellectual paralysis and > dissatisfaction. > > 1. EMS lacks a true medical professional identity. > > Despite early exitement about the possibilities of > being legitimized and > accepted as medical professionals (See: Emergency > Medical Services ACT of 1973, > et seq), the EMS workforce has yet to break through > the barriers of professional > and academic acceptance. > > Emergency medicine was designated as the 23rd > medical specialty due almost > exclusively to its relationship with the development > of EMS systems. > Unfortunately, emergency medicine and its > professional medical society (ACEP) > spent most of its time fighting for legitimacy with > other medical and surrgical > specialties. Viewed as the snotty-nosed kids on > organized medicine's block, > emergency physicians generally avoided the EMS > workforce, which it viewed as a > captive audience, and spent its time fighting turf > wars with the surgical, > pediatric and cardiology communities. Because the > fight for collegial > acceptance continues to this day, it is unlikely > that emergency medicine will > embrace (share power with) the EMS workforce in the > grounds of professional and > academic purity. > > Because EMS workers have not been invited to the > " table " of emergency medicine, > the industry continues to resonate on a closed > frequency - and can't find the > means to break out. In fact, the lamentations > expressed on this list are a > sterling example. The problem is that no one's > listening because the workforce > poses no political or economic threat. Thus, we are > left to complain to one > another - a practice that is not only guaranteed to > go nowhere, but only serves > to intensify growing frustration and > dissatisfaction. > > 2. EMS workers openly resist academic responsibility > and accountability. > > As EMS educators continue to emplore the workforce > to become smarter and better > versed in the ways of academic medicine, there seems > to be an exponential level > of resistance. Educators suggest that higher > learning will result in higher > incomes, while the workers sit with arms folded, > intransigent, saying " show me > the money first " , while viewing educators as being > overly pedantic and > self-serving. > > The truth is that organized medicine will not view > the EMS workforce as being > legitimate until same embraces the concept that true > medical professionals > investigate and contribute to a well defined body of > knowledge, and do not hang > their academic " hats " on non-peer reviewed > contributions such as " Tricks of the > Trade " , etc. In this regard, higher incomes and > professional identity and > acceptance have become tangled into one big " who'll > blink first " amorphous > empass. > > When was the last time you heard an EMS worker > observe and state that a > particllar prehospital procedure or piece of > equipment wasn't working, and they > were going to recommend to their medical director > that it be abandoned as an EMS > intervention? I thought so. And, yet again, no one > on the outside is listening. > > 3, Payers are not paying more for EMS. > > Because of #1 and #2 above, payers are not convinced > of the indispensibility of > prehospital care. Federally sponsored studies on > behalf of CMS, and most > recently the OPALS study. have brought questions to > the minds of payers. This > combined with the workforce's reluctance to > participate in its own > professional, academic and economic destiny as led > to the steady errosion of > EMS wages in terms of ajdusted spending power over > the past 30 years. > > As technology and manpower costs continued to climb, > while reimbursement > flattened out, EMS companies sought means to > increase efficiencies - thus SSM > and other systems of administrivia were born - not > out of some perverse > Machiavellian death wish for EMS workers, but rather > out or economic necessity > and long-term survival. > > Finally, we should consider that all of the > eye-poking, hair pulling and > infighting will not garner a shred of sympathy from > EMS's medical overlords > because they, too, had to struggle and fight for > their recognition, autonomy > and place in organized medicine back in the '60's > and 70's. The emergence of > some bright and energized new EMS leaders would go a > long way in establishing a > rational agenda for pulling the industry out of its > " stuck on stupid " mentality. > > Bob Kellow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: > Bob > > These are all very well thought and well stated > observations. I always respected your sit back and > watch to find the problem way of approaching a > problem. and once again you have nailed a large part > of the problem right on the head. > > But the problems have been stated more than once and > in more than one way. Now how do we fix them. We > talk a good game about getting together " unionizing " > etc. the thing is we have moved beyond the put up or > shut up point. > As you have stated here we have allowed the > emergency medicine profession to pass us up and > forget about us and move on. We allows the nursing > profession to run us down and rumor has it they want > to take us over and it almost appears overall we are > going to roll over and let them. > Why? > As individuals everyone can talk tough But there is > so much I am better than you BS going on that " WE " > cannot get along. Until that happens well the old > saying divided we fall united we stand. > Over all can we as a group Grow up and act like a > professional group and maybe earn what we want and > stop acting like selfish children. That will start > us in a positive direction. > > As you have told me in the past come to me with a > problem only if you have a solution to it. There is > an answer it is time for us all to find it and quit > talking/bickering about it. > > Terrell EMT-P/CCEMTP > > > > bkellow@... wrote: > I've been reading all of the posts related to > working conditions, benefits, > operational models, and the general acrimony > associated with same. It's my view > that we've arrived at this place in the EMS > industry's history, not by > circumstance, but rather by abdication. What has > happened is the result of a > confluence of events and beliefs over the past 30 or > so years that have led to > todays state of aggitation, frustration, > intellectual paralysis and > dissatisfaction. > > 1. EMS lacks a true medical professional identity. > > Despite early exitement about the possibilities of > being legitimized and > accepted as medical professionals (See: Emergency > Medical Services ACT of 1973, > et seq), the EMS workforce has yet to break through > the barriers of professional > and academic acceptance. > > Emergency medicine was designated as the 23rd > medical specialty due almost > exclusively to its relationship with the development > of EMS systems. > Unfortunately, emergency medicine and its > professional medical society (ACEP) > spent most of its time fighting for legitimacy with > other medical and surrgical > specialties. Viewed as the snotty-nosed kids on > organized medicine's block, > emergency physicians generally avoided the EMS > workforce, which it viewed as a > captive audience, and spent its time fighting turf > wars with the surgical, > pediatric and cardiology communities. Because the > fight for collegial > acceptance continues to this day, it is unlikely > that emergency medicine will > embrace (share power with) the EMS workforce in the > grounds of professional and > academic purity. > > Because EMS workers have not been invited to the > " table " of emergency medicine, > the industry continues to resonate on a closed > frequency - and can't find the > means to break out. In fact, the lamentations > expressed on this list are a > sterling example. The problem is that no one's > listening because the workforce > poses no political or economic threat. Thus, we are > left to complain to one > another - a practice that is not only guaranteed to > go nowhere, but only serves > to intensify growing frustration and > dissatisfaction. > > 2. EMS workers openly resist academic responsibility > and accountability. > > As EMS educators continue to emplore the workforce > to become smarter and better > versed in the ways of academic medicine, there seems > to be an exponential level > of resistance. Educators suggest that higher > learning will result in higher > incomes, while the workers sit with arms folded, > intransigent, saying " show me > the money first " , while viewing educators as being > overly pedantic and > self-serving. > > The truth is that organized medicine will not view > the EMS workforce as being > legitimate until same embraces the concept that true > medical professionals > investigate and contribute to a well defined body of > knowledge, and do not hang > their academic " hats " on non-peer reviewed > contributions such as " Tricks of the > Trade " , etc. In this regard, higher incomes and > professional identity and > acceptance have become tangled into one big " who'll > blink first " amorphous > empass. > > When was the last time you heard an EMS worker > observe and state that a > particllar prehospital procedure or piece of > equipment wasn't working, and they > were going to recommend to their medical director > that it be abandoned as an EMS > intervention? I thought so. And, yet again, no one > on the outside is listening. > > 3, Payers are not paying more for EMS. > > Because of #1 and #2 above, payers are not convinced > of the indispensibility of > prehospital care. Federally sponsored studies on > behalf of CMS, and most > recently the OPALS study. have brought questions to > the minds of payers. This > combined with the workforce's reluctance to > participate in its own > professional, academic and economic destiny as led > to the steady errosion of > EMS wages in terms of ajdusted spending power over > the past 30 years. > > As technology and manpower costs continued to climb, > while reimbursement > flattened out, EMS companies sought means to > increase efficiencies - thus SSM > and other systems of administrivia were born - not > out of some perverse > Machiavellian death wish for EMS workers, but rather > out or economic necessity > and long-term survival. > > Finally, we should consider that all of the > eye-poking, hair pulling and > infighting will not garner a shred of sympathy from > EMS's medical overlords > because they, too, had to struggle and fight for > their recognition, autonomy > and place in organized medicine back in the '60's > and 70's. The emergence of > some bright and energized new EMS leaders would go a > long way in establishing a > rational agenda for pulling the industry out of its > " stuck on stupid " mentality. > > Bob Kellow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 and while we're at it, lets take ALL healthcare away from those who make a profit. No more Hospitals, clinics, Dr's, Nurse practioners, RT's and X-ray techs, NO ONE can make money off Healthcare. Lets dismantle the entire system as this country has known it, and start over. How much of that was sarcasm? You decide! Mike Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: > Bob > > These are all very well thought and well stated > observations. I always respected your sit back and > watch to find the problem way of approaching a > problem. and once again you have nailed a large part > of the problem right on the head. > > But the problems have been stated more than once and > in more than one way. Now how do we fix them. We > talk a good game about getting together " unionizing " > etc. the thing is we have moved beyond the put up or > shut up point. > As you have stated here we have allowed the > emergency medicine profession to pass us up and > forget about us and move on. We allows the nursing > profession to run us down and rumor has it they want > to take us over and it almost appears overall we are > going to roll over and let them. > Why? > As individuals everyone can talk tough But there is > so much I am better than you BS going on that " WE " > cannot get along. Until that happens well the old > saying divided we fall united we stand. > Over all can we as a group Grow up and act like a > professional group and maybe earn what we want and > stop acting like selfish children. That will start > us in a positive direction. > > As you have told me in the past come to me with a > problem only if you have a solution to it. There is > an answer it is time for us all to find it and quit > talking/bickering about it. > > Terrell EMT-P/CCEMTP > > > > bkellow@... wrote: > I've been reading all of the posts related to > working conditions, benefits, > operational models, and the general acrimony > associated with same. It's my view > that we've arrived at this place in the EMS > industry's history, not by > circumstance, but rather by abdication. What has > happened is the result of a > confluence of events and beliefs over the past 30 or > so years that have led to > todays state of aggitation, frustration, > intellectual paralysis and > dissatisfaction. > > 1. EMS lacks a true medical professional identity. > > Despite early exitement about the possibilities of > being legitimized and > accepted as medical professionals (See: Emergency > Medical Services ACT of 1973, > et seq), the EMS workforce has yet to break through > the barriers of professional > and academic acceptance. > > Emergency medicine was designated as the 23rd > medical specialty due almost > exclusively to its relationship with the development > of EMS systems. > Unfortunately, emergency medicine and its > professional medical society (ACEP) > spent most of its time fighting for legitimacy with > other medical and surrgical > specialties. Viewed as the snotty-nosed kids on > organized medicine's block, > emergency physicians generally avoided the EMS > workforce, which it viewed as a > captive audience, and spent its time fighting turf > wars with the surgical, > pediatric and cardiology communities. Because the > fight for collegial > acceptance continues to this day, it is unlikely > that emergency medicine will > embrace (share power with) the EMS workforce in the > grounds of professional and > academic purity. > > Because EMS workers have not been invited to the > " table " of emergency medicine, > the industry continues to resonate on a closed > frequency - and can't find the > means to break out. In fact, the lamentations > expressed on this list are a > sterling example. The problem is that no one's > listening because the workforce > poses no political or economic threat. Thus, we are > left to complain to one > another - a practice that is not only guaranteed to > go nowhere, but only serves > to intensify growing frustration and > dissatisfaction. > > 2. EMS workers openly resist academic responsibility > and accountability. > > As EMS educators continue to emplore the workforce > to become smarter and better > versed in the ways of academic medicine, there seems > to be an exponential level > of resistance. Educators suggest that higher > learning will result in higher > incomes, while the workers sit with arms folded, > intransigent, saying " show me > the money first " , while viewing educators as being > overly pedantic and > self-serving. > > The truth is that organized medicine will not view > the EMS workforce as being > legitimate until same embraces the concept that true > medical professionals > investigate and contribute to a well defined body of > knowledge, and do not hang > their academic " hats " on non-peer reviewed > contributions such as " Tricks of the > Trade " , etc. In this regard, higher incomes and > professional identity and > acceptance have become tangled into one big " who'll > blink first " amorphous > empass. > > When was the last time you heard an EMS worker > observe and state that a > particllar prehospital procedure or piece of > equipment wasn't working, and they > were going to recommend to their medical director > that it be abandoned as an EMS > intervention? I thought so. And, yet again, no one > on the outside is listening. > > 3, Payers are not paying more for EMS. > > Because of #1 and #2 above, payers are not convinced > of the indispensibility of > prehospital care. Federally sponsored studies on > behalf of CMS, and most > recently the OPALS study. have brought questions to > the minds of payers. This > combined with the workforce's reluctance to > participate in its own > professional, academic and economic destiny as led > to the steady errosion of > EMS wages in terms of ajdusted spending power over > the past 30 years. > > As technology and manpower costs continued to climb, > while reimbursement > flattened out, EMS companies sought means to > increase efficiencies - thus SSM > and other systems of administrivia were born - not > out of some perverse > Machiavellian death wish for EMS workers, but rather > out or economic necessity > and long-term survival. > > Finally, we should consider that all of the > eye-poking, hair pulling and > infighting will not garner a shred of sympathy from > EMS's medical overlords > because they, too, had to struggle and fight for > their recognition, autonomy > and place in organized medicine back in the '60's > and 70's. The emergence of > some bright and energized new EMS leaders would go a > long way in establishing a > rational agenda for pulling the industry out of its > " stuck on stupid " mentality. > > Bob Kellow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 and while we're at it, lets take ALL healthcare away from those who make a profit. No more Hospitals, clinics, Dr's, Nurse practioners, RT's and X-ray techs, NO ONE can make money off Healthcare. Lets dismantle the entire system as this country has known it, and start over. How much of that was sarcasm? You decide! Mike Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: > Bob > > These are all very well thought and well stated > observations. I always respected your sit back and > watch to find the problem way of approaching a > problem. and once again you have nailed a large part > of the problem right on the head. > > But the problems have been stated more than once and > in more than one way. Now how do we fix them. We > talk a good game about getting together " unionizing " > etc. the thing is we have moved beyond the put up or > shut up point. > As you have stated here we have allowed the > emergency medicine profession to pass us up and > forget about us and move on. We allows the nursing > profession to run us down and rumor has it they want > to take us over and it almost appears overall we are > going to roll over and let them. > Why? > As individuals everyone can talk tough But there is > so much I am better than you BS going on that " WE " > cannot get along. Until that happens well the old > saying divided we fall united we stand. > Over all can we as a group Grow up and act like a > professional group and maybe earn what we want and > stop acting like selfish children. That will start > us in a positive direction. > > As you have told me in the past come to me with a > problem only if you have a solution to it. There is > an answer it is time for us all to find it and quit > talking/bickering about it. > > Terrell EMT-P/CCEMTP > > > > bkellow@... wrote: > I've been reading all of the posts related to > working conditions, benefits, > operational models, and the general acrimony > associated with same. It's my view > that we've arrived at this place in the EMS > industry's history, not by > circumstance, but rather by abdication. What has > happened is the result of a > confluence of events and beliefs over the past 30 or > so years that have led to > todays state of aggitation, frustration, > intellectual paralysis and > dissatisfaction. > > 1. EMS lacks a true medical professional identity. > > Despite early exitement about the possibilities of > being legitimized and > accepted as medical professionals (See: Emergency > Medical Services ACT of 1973, > et seq), the EMS workforce has yet to break through > the barriers of professional > and academic acceptance. > > Emergency medicine was designated as the 23rd > medical specialty due almost > exclusively to its relationship with the development > of EMS systems. > Unfortunately, emergency medicine and its > professional medical society (ACEP) > spent most of its time fighting for legitimacy with > other medical and surrgical > specialties. Viewed as the snotty-nosed kids on > organized medicine's block, > emergency physicians generally avoided the EMS > workforce, which it viewed as a > captive audience, and spent its time fighting turf > wars with the surgical, > pediatric and cardiology communities. Because the > fight for collegial > acceptance continues to this day, it is unlikely > that emergency medicine will > embrace (share power with) the EMS workforce in the > grounds of professional and > academic purity. > > Because EMS workers have not been invited to the > " table " of emergency medicine, > the industry continues to resonate on a closed > frequency - and can't find the > means to break out. In fact, the lamentations > expressed on this list are a > sterling example. The problem is that no one's > listening because the workforce > poses no political or economic threat. Thus, we are > left to complain to one > another - a practice that is not only guaranteed to > go nowhere, but only serves > to intensify growing frustration and > dissatisfaction. > > 2. EMS workers openly resist academic responsibility > and accountability. > > As EMS educators continue to emplore the workforce > to become smarter and better > versed in the ways of academic medicine, there seems > to be an exponential level > of resistance. Educators suggest that higher > learning will result in higher > incomes, while the workers sit with arms folded, > intransigent, saying " show me > the money first " , while viewing educators as being > overly pedantic and > self-serving. > > The truth is that organized medicine will not view > the EMS workforce as being > legitimate until same embraces the concept that true > medical professionals > investigate and contribute to a well defined body of > knowledge, and do not hang > their academic " hats " on non-peer reviewed > contributions such as " Tricks of the > Trade " , etc. In this regard, higher incomes and > professional identity and > acceptance have become tangled into one big " who'll > blink first " amorphous > empass. > > When was the last time you heard an EMS worker > observe and state that a > particllar prehospital procedure or piece of > equipment wasn't working, and they > were going to recommend to their medical director > that it be abandoned as an EMS > intervention? I thought so. And, yet again, no one > on the outside is listening. > > 3, Payers are not paying more for EMS. > > Because of #1 and #2 above, payers are not convinced > of the indispensibility of > prehospital care. Federally sponsored studies on > behalf of CMS, and most > recently the OPALS study. have brought questions to > the minds of payers. This > combined with the workforce's reluctance to > participate in its own > professional, academic and economic destiny as led > to the steady errosion of > EMS wages in terms of ajdusted spending power over > the past 30 years. > > As technology and manpower costs continued to climb, > while reimbursement > flattened out, EMS companies sought means to > increase efficiencies - thus SSM > and other systems of administrivia were born - not > out of some perverse > Machiavellian death wish for EMS workers, but rather > out or economic necessity > and long-term survival. > > Finally, we should consider that all of the > eye-poking, hair pulling and > infighting will not garner a shred of sympathy from > EMS's medical overlords > because they, too, had to struggle and fight for > their recognition, autonomy > and place in organized medicine back in the '60's > and 70's. The emergence of > some bright and energized new EMS leaders would go a > long way in establishing a > rational agenda for pulling the industry out of its > " stuck on stupid " mentality. > > Bob Kellow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm sorry that your only experience with them has been negative, but let me assure you by my experience that there are good, honest, caring for-profit providers out there, just as there are those that do not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy to the media, unlike a certain company that made recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a for-profit service does invite a few " owners and managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree that the greedy services must be culled out of a field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit services based on the headlines of a few. That is not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring for-profit services out there, but simply an incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. Just my humble opinion, K. Pelletier Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm sorry that your only experience with them has been negative, but let me assure you by my experience that there are good, honest, caring for-profit providers out there, just as there are those that do not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy to the media, unlike a certain company that made recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a for-profit service does invite a few " owners and managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree that the greedy services must be culled out of a field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit services based on the headlines of a few. That is not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring for-profit services out there, but simply an incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. Just my humble opinion, K. Pelletier Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm sorry that your only experience with them has been negative, but let me assure you by my experience that there are good, honest, caring for-profit providers out there, just as there are those that do not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy to the media, unlike a certain company that made recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a for-profit service does invite a few " owners and managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree that the greedy services must be culled out of a field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit services based on the headlines of a few. That is not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring for-profit services out there, but simply an incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. Just my humble opinion, K. Pelletier Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I agree with your post. Unfortunately those with greed will only open another service under their wife, brother, sister, etc., after being shut down by the FBI. Goldstar is a good example. FEMA is now using them as a provider in LA. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Kim wrote: > With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating > the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm > sorry that your only experience with them has been > negative, but let me assure you by my experience > that there are good, honest, caring for-profit > providers out there, just as there are those that do > not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good > ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy > to the media, unlike a certain company that made > recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. > Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. > > I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city > EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I > have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a > for-profit service does invite a few " owners and > managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree > that the greedy services must be culled out of a > field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But > don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit > services based on the headlines of a few. That is > not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring > for-profit services out there, but simply an > incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. > > Just my humble opinion, > > K. Pelletier > > > > > > Re: Observations > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know > I > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell > their > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > exixts > in our profession. You can be assured that they > will > dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad > rep. > In all honsety in order to see a positive change > we > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > EMS > belongs at the very least as a third city service. > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > EMT-P > > --- Terrell wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I agree with your post. Unfortunately those with greed will only open another service under their wife, brother, sister, etc., after being shut down by the FBI. Goldstar is a good example. FEMA is now using them as a provider in LA. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Kim wrote: > With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating > the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm > sorry that your only experience with them has been > negative, but let me assure you by my experience > that there are good, honest, caring for-profit > providers out there, just as there are those that do > not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good > ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy > to the media, unlike a certain company that made > recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. > Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. > > I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city > EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I > have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a > for-profit service does invite a few " owners and > managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree > that the greedy services must be culled out of a > field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But > don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit > services based on the headlines of a few. That is > not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring > for-profit services out there, but simply an > incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. > > Just my humble opinion, > > K. Pelletier > > > > > > Re: Observations > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know > I > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell > their > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > exixts > in our profession. You can be assured that they > will > dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad > rep. > In all honsety in order to see a positive change > we > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > EMS > belongs at the very least as a third city service. > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > EMT-P > > --- Terrell wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I agree with your post. Unfortunately those with greed will only open another service under their wife, brother, sister, etc., after being shut down by the FBI. Goldstar is a good example. FEMA is now using them as a provider in LA. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Kim wrote: > With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating > the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm > sorry that your only experience with them has been > negative, but let me assure you by my experience > that there are good, honest, caring for-profit > providers out there, just as there are those that do > not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good > ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy > to the media, unlike a certain company that made > recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. > Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. > > I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city > EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I > have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a > for-profit service does invite a few " owners and > managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree > that the greedy services must be culled out of a > field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But > don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit > services based on the headlines of a few. That is > not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring > for-profit services out there, but simply an > incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. > > Just my humble opinion, > > K. Pelletier > > > > > > Re: Observations > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know > I > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell > their > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > exixts > in our profession. You can be assured that they > will > dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad > rep. > In all honsety in order to see a positive change > we > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > EMS > belongs at the very least as a third city service. > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > EMT-P > > --- Terrell wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I agree Kim. If anybody wants to see how well a non profit medical / health care system works, ask the Brits how good theirs is. Crosby EMT-B ________________________________ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 8:35 PM To: Subject: Re: Observations With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm sorry that your only experience with them has been negative, but let me assure you by my experience that there are good, honest, caring for-profit providers out there, just as there are those that do not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy to the media, unlike a certain company that made recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a for-profit service does invite a few " owners and managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree that the greedy services must be culled out of a field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit services based on the headlines of a few. That is not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring for-profit services out there, but simply an incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. Just my humble opinion, K. Pelletier Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I agree Kim. If anybody wants to see how well a non profit medical / health care system works, ask the Brits how good theirs is. Crosby EMT-B ________________________________ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 8:35 PM To: Subject: Re: Observations With all respect Mr. Capuchino, simply eliminating the for-profit providers is not the answer. I'm sorry that your only experience with them has been negative, but let me assure you by my experience that there are good, honest, caring for-profit providers out there, just as there are those that do not warrent a second look. Unfortunately, the good ones remain quiet. They are simply not newsworthy to the media, unlike a certain company that made recent headlines for it's fraudulant practices. Public Media 101: Good news doesn't sell newspapers. I have also seen my fair share of poorly run city EMS services, Fire/EMS, and volunteer services. I have seen many great ones as well. Yes, a for-profit service does invite a few " owners and managers " into the greed temptation, and I agree that the greedy services must be culled out of a field whose sole purpose should be to *care*. But don't make a blanket statement about ALL for-profit services based on the headlines of a few. That is not only unfair to the hard working, honest, caring for-profit services out there, but simply an incorrect and narrow-minded statement altogether. Just my humble opinion, K. Pelletier Re: Observations We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know I have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell their head from their butt. Unfortunately this also exixts in our profession. You can be assured that they will dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad rep. In all honsety in order to see a positive change we have to do away with the for-profit providers. EMS belongs at the very least as a third city service. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Terrell wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Starting " another service " in this state is not an easy task. Yes, you could have a relative or spouse do it, but it's a hellava lot of work to even get the licenses you need these days. DEA, DPS, Medical Direction, TDH, Medicare, city licenses, and the list goes on and on... take a lot of diligence and patience to go through many months of this work, and honestly, there's easier ways to make a fraudulant buck. But, if a dishonest person is still this diligent and starts another " bad " service, it too should also be shut down. That is the solution. As far as the Goldstar units in Louisiana, I may be mistaken, but I thought a legitimate EMS in Texas was using those units on some sort of rental/lease/loan basis to help with the evacuation, not Goldstar itself. Respectfully, K. Pelletier Re: Observations > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know > I > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell > their > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > exixts > in our profession. You can be assured that they > will > dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad > rep. > In all honsety in order to see a positive change > we > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > EMS > belongs at the very least as a third city service. > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > EMT-P > > --- Terrell wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Starting " another service " in this state is not an easy task. Yes, you could have a relative or spouse do it, but it's a hellava lot of work to even get the licenses you need these days. DEA, DPS, Medical Direction, TDH, Medicare, city licenses, and the list goes on and on... take a lot of diligence and patience to go through many months of this work, and honestly, there's easier ways to make a fraudulant buck. But, if a dishonest person is still this diligent and starts another " bad " service, it too should also be shut down. That is the solution. As far as the Goldstar units in Louisiana, I may be mistaken, but I thought a legitimate EMS in Texas was using those units on some sort of rental/lease/loan basis to help with the evacuation, not Goldstar itself. Respectfully, K. Pelletier Re: Observations > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know > I > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell > their > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > exixts > in our profession. You can be assured that they > will > dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad > rep. > In all honsety in order to see a positive change > we > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > EMS > belongs at the very least as a third city service. > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > EMT-P > > --- Terrell wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Starting " another service " in this state is not an easy task. Yes, you could have a relative or spouse do it, but it's a hellava lot of work to even get the licenses you need these days. DEA, DPS, Medical Direction, TDH, Medicare, city licenses, and the list goes on and on... take a lot of diligence and patience to go through many months of this work, and honestly, there's easier ways to make a fraudulant buck. But, if a dishonest person is still this diligent and starts another " bad " service, it too should also be shut down. That is the solution. As far as the Goldstar units in Louisiana, I may be mistaken, but I thought a legitimate EMS in Texas was using those units on some sort of rental/lease/loan basis to help with the evacuation, not Goldstar itself. Respectfully, K. Pelletier Re: Observations > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I know > I > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't tell > their > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > exixts > in our profession. You can be assured that they > will > dimantle this profession as a whole if it happens. > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part to > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a bad > rep. > In all honsety in order to see a positive change > we > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > EMS > belongs at the very least as a third city service. > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > EMT-P > > --- Terrell wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Some friends working in LA said that their checks were delayed 3 weeks because their offices were under water in Port Arthur. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Kim wrote: > Starting " another service " in this state is not an > easy task. Yes, you could have a relative or spouse > do it, but it's a hellava lot of work to even get > the licenses you need these days. DEA, DPS, Medical > Direction, TDH, Medicare, city licenses, and the > list goes on and on... take a lot of diligence and > patience to go through many months of this work, and > honestly, there's easier ways to make a fraudulant > buck. > > But, if a dishonest person is still this diligent > and starts another " bad " service, it too should also > be shut down. That is the solution. > > As far as the Goldstar units in Louisiana, I may be > mistaken, but I thought a legitimate EMS in Texas > was using those units on some sort of > rental/lease/loan basis to help with the evacuation, > not Goldstar itself. > > Respectfully, > > K. Pelletier > > > > Re: Observations > > > > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I > know > > I > > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't > tell > > their > > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > > exixts > > in our profession. You can be assured that > they > > will > > dimantle this profession as a whole if it > happens. > > > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part > to > > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a > bad > > rep. > > In all honsety in order to see a positive > change > > we > > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > > > EMS > > belongs at the very least as a third city > service. > > > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > > EMT-P > > > > --- Terrell > wrote: > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Some friends working in LA said that their checks were delayed 3 weeks because their offices were under water in Port Arthur. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Kim wrote: > Starting " another service " in this state is not an > easy task. Yes, you could have a relative or spouse > do it, but it's a hellava lot of work to even get > the licenses you need these days. DEA, DPS, Medical > Direction, TDH, Medicare, city licenses, and the > list goes on and on... take a lot of diligence and > patience to go through many months of this work, and > honestly, there's easier ways to make a fraudulant > buck. > > But, if a dishonest person is still this diligent > and starts another " bad " service, it too should also > be shut down. That is the solution. > > As far as the Goldstar units in Louisiana, I may be > mistaken, but I thought a legitimate EMS in Texas > was using those units on some sort of > rental/lease/loan basis to help with the evacuation, > not Goldstar itself. > > Respectfully, > > K. Pelletier > > > > Re: Observations > > > > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I > know > > I > > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't > tell > > their > > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > > exixts > > in our profession. You can be assured that > they > > will > > dimantle this profession as a whole if it > happens. > > > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part > to > > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a > bad > > rep. > > In all honsety in order to see a positive > change > > we > > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > > > EMS > > belongs at the very least as a third city > service. > > > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > > EMT-P > > > > --- Terrell > wrote: > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Some friends working in LA said that their checks were delayed 3 weeks because their offices were under water in Port Arthur. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Kim wrote: > Starting " another service " in this state is not an > easy task. Yes, you could have a relative or spouse > do it, but it's a hellava lot of work to even get > the licenses you need these days. DEA, DPS, Medical > Direction, TDH, Medicare, city licenses, and the > list goes on and on... take a lot of diligence and > patience to go through many months of this work, and > honestly, there's easier ways to make a fraudulant > buck. > > But, if a dishonest person is still this diligent > and starts another " bad " service, it too should also > be shut down. That is the solution. > > As far as the Goldstar units in Louisiana, I may be > mistaken, but I thought a legitimate EMS in Texas > was using those units on some sort of > rental/lease/loan basis to help with the evacuation, > not Goldstar itself. > > Respectfully, > > K. Pelletier > > > > Re: Observations > > > > > > We cannot aloow nurses to take over people. I > know > > I > > have seen a great many nurses that couldn't > tell > > their > > head from their butt. Unfortunately this also > > exixts > > in our profession. You can be assured that > they > > will > > dimantle this profession as a whole if it > happens. > > > > This is our turf. But no thanks in large part > to > > those who have frauded the gov't, we have a > bad > > rep. > > In all honsety in order to see a positive > change > > we > > have to do away with the for-profit providers. > > > EMS > > belongs at the very least as a third city > service. > > > > Salvador Capuchino Jr > > EMT-P > > > > --- Terrell > wrote: > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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