RE: Kim-Di's surgery ,very very long!

[Guest guest]

Kim,

Very, very thoughtful too. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very

special story regarding Dylan's (scheduled) heart surgery. Yes, a miracle. (As

is

anything, I guess, that is outside our realm of normal human

expectation/experience). I wonder what the surgeon's reaction was. I am open

to that type

of outcome, as well. (She said emphatically!)

I don't know if you saw/heard from Deepak; he said, " If you were to ask me

what is the most important thing in my life, I would say that it is the

experience of transcending, twice a day... "

He probably is not practicing 'western medicine' any longer, but the doctor

I took to for her tantrum healing does practice both western and

ayurvedic medicine, and practices TM . So, they are not seeing a conflict

between

employing traditional methods of healing and the practice of meditation. And

all forms of meditation have value. I just happen to agree with Deepak and

others that TM seems to be the most efficient method of transcending thought.

It was for me.

And that's the key-the transcending aspect. Without that key component,

then again, we are just having or reading intellectual discussions about

it-like talking about HANDLE, but never doing it, or just relaxing-helpful, but

not

IT.

That is the number 1 drawback to philosophy, per se. It can open your mind,

enrich your life, but really its just a complilation of ideas. I want to go

beyond ideas.

Even I've had enough of philosophy ! It was a path, but it's served its

purpose.

You must be intrigued by what your friend did, by what Dr. Glaser did for

, and if you're interested, I too have other experiences to share.

I believe Deepak is trying to loosen our grip on what we call reality, so

that we can open up to new possibilities. But once again, they are only

words-not the experience of it.

I can't say much about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He is great for making this

knowledge available, his only heart's desire is for peace on earth. He makes

every attempt to keep the technique pure. The importance of that becomes clear

as one sits with an instructor, and as one meditates.

Medicine, herbs, food, supplements. they are all 'medicine' to me. Just that

some are synthetic and some are natural. Everything is in the point of

view. There are only a very few people on earth who exist in such harmony with

Nature, that they require nothing. Even sages and disciples die from diseases.

We all need a way out. There is no conflict in using tools-this what they

call the the material plane, you know? I don't recall ever levitating anything

(tongue in cheek).

But I'll be darned if you have to use any tool that is insulting or

belittling to you. I hope those tapes are in the trash.

Meditation allows us to bring out another talent that we already possess,

but that lies fairly dormant, as we constantly cover over it, or override it

with our thoughts. But it is a subtle, quiet, but a powerful and creative

tool. We are like a " musician in waiting " , we won't know our talent till we

pick

up the instrument. You are familiar with your own intuitive nature. That's

a part of what lies underneath the thoughts we have.

And lastly for now, about the process of creating at the level of the gap

(between thoughts).I think this time, I'm just going to " let go what goes, and

let come what comes. "

and appreciate the benefits as I go along. We don't have to create the path.

We just need to sit and do the thing for 20 minutes 2x daily. Everything

else will be taken care of. The knowledge unfolds from within.

Love you for spending so much of your time on such a thoughtful answer to my

post.

I appreciate it very much. Peace.

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

Kim,

Very, very thoughtful too. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very

special story regarding Dylan's (scheduled) heart surgery. Yes, a miracle. (As

is

anything, I guess, that is outside our realm of normal human

expectation/experience). I wonder what the surgeon's reaction was. I am open

to that type

of outcome, as well. (She said emphatically!)

I don't know if you saw/heard from Deepak; he said, " If you were to ask me

what is the most important thing in my life, I would say that it is the

experience of transcending, twice a day... "

He probably is not practicing 'western medicine' any longer, but the doctor

I took to for her tantrum healing does practice both western and

ayurvedic medicine, and practices TM . So, they are not seeing a conflict

between

employing traditional methods of healing and the practice of meditation. And

all forms of meditation have value. I just happen to agree with Deepak and

others that TM seems to be the most efficient method of transcending thought.

It was for me.

And that's the key-the transcending aspect. Without that key component,

then again, we are just having or reading intellectual discussions about

it-like talking about HANDLE, but never doing it, or just relaxing-helpful, but

not

IT.

That is the number 1 drawback to philosophy, per se. It can open your mind,

enrich your life, but really its just a complilation of ideas. I want to go

beyond ideas.

Even I've had enough of philosophy ! It was a path, but it's served its

purpose.

You must be intrigued by what your friend did, by what Dr. Glaser did for

, and if you're interested, I too have other experiences to share.

I believe Deepak is trying to loosen our grip on what we call reality, so

that we can open up to new possibilities. But once again, they are only

words-not the experience of it.

I can't say much about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He is great for making this

knowledge available, his only heart's desire is for peace on earth. He makes

every attempt to keep the technique pure. The importance of that becomes clear

as one sits with an instructor, and as one meditates.

Medicine, herbs, food, supplements. they are all 'medicine' to me. Just that

some are synthetic and some are natural. Everything is in the point of

view. There are only a very few people on earth who exist in such harmony with

Nature, that they require nothing. Even sages and disciples die from diseases.

We all need a way out. There is no conflict in using tools-this what they

call the the material plane, you know? I don't recall ever levitating anything

(tongue in cheek).

But I'll be darned if you have to use any tool that is insulting or

belittling to you. I hope those tapes are in the trash.

Meditation allows us to bring out another talent that we already possess,

but that lies fairly dormant, as we constantly cover over it, or override it

with our thoughts. But it is a subtle, quiet, but a powerful and creative

tool. We are like a " musician in waiting " , we won't know our talent till we

pick

up the instrument. You are familiar with your own intuitive nature. That's

a part of what lies underneath the thoughts we have.

And lastly for now, about the process of creating at the level of the gap

(between thoughts).I think this time, I'm just going to " let go what goes, and

let come what comes. "

and appreciate the benefits as I go along. We don't have to create the path.

We just need to sit and do the thing for 20 minutes 2x daily. Everything

else will be taken care of. The knowledge unfolds from within.

Love you for spending so much of your time on such a thoughtful answer to my

post.

I appreciate it very much. Peace.

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

- I so agree with you about the attention and being detached from the

outcome - too hard to do for your own dear child.

I find it interesting that you brought up quantum physics today, because Roy

and I were talking about it this weekend - the extent of my knowledge is a

couple of Deepok tapes and books; just enough to be intrigued by the

possibility of it all. Much of it resonates in me as truth, yet I do not

have faith that I could let go of my knowledge pertaining to a diagnosis to

allow the change in cells that occur continually to lead to a reality

without the diagnosis. I KNOW (meaning resonates as truth to me) it is

possible, but I KNOW I get in the way.

One example where healing happened - Dylan had a large ASD, basically no

wall at all between the upper chambers. The hole was large enough that they

were not going to be able to use a balloon procedure to close it, because

there was not enough wall for the balloon to attach to on either side.

Diagnosed age 2 weeks. At first I am hopeful that it will close on its own,

although medically I am told it is too big to close on its own (picture a

cut healing - healing happens on both sides then grows together to close in

the opening, if the cut is too wide you need stitches to bring the two sides

together. We had a friend do Johreih on him, because he wanted to and we

didn't think it would hurt. Then life moved on. Every time we see the

doctor, it is talk about when to do the surgery, not if, but when. My

medical knowledge is saying surgery is a definite, clouding out my " faith in

possibility " that defines me. I begin to get anxious about Dylan having

open heart surgery - I remember a child who died during an ASD repair that I

cared for right after my first child died - very uncommon - but I think the

mom knew going in. My anxiety for the surgery builds. Then I see a Touched

By An Angel episode and the visual of God as the surgeon, working through

the hands of the doctor came to me, and my fears left me. I know that all my

life experiences have taught me that as painful as something is good always

comes of it, so without telling myself to, I simply was able to let go of

the outcome of Dylan's surgery. My being simply knew that it would be okay

either way. So we go in for the echo to " prepare for surgery " as it says on

the requisition. The tech looks and looks, then she looks at us with

amazement and says, " there is no hole, not even a hint of a hole " so

somewhere in all of that the hole healed and he did not need the surgery.

Even now though, I do not feel I was in control of if it healed or did not

heal - it was simply an incredible miraculous blessing - one that took me to

my knees (physically bowled me over) in gratitude and yet offers truth to

this whole quantum physics thing.

Now the part I was trying to write last night if you care to continue.

So I am in the midst of the questioning if Tyler has childhood onset bipolar

and not " simply " Inattentive ADD and learning disabilities - on one hand I

know it is just a label, and the only use for the label is to help guide my

understanding (and hopefully his) of what happens for him and then figure

out better ways to respond - yet the media image of bipolar and even the

statistics about substance abuse, number in prison etc for those with

bipolar is frankly terrifying so hard to let go of the concern of Is it or

Isn't it. Then we know that the DSM manuals are based on behaviors and we

know behavior is not static, but we also know that there is a genetic

component, which implies to me that part cannot be changed. Then we add on

parenting tapes that say " even if they have bipolar and end up in jail, it

is only because they didn't learn the skills - ie parents did not teach them

the skills, and instead let them get away with ineffective coping patterns. "

So in my mind I have been trying to sort all this out how much is

changeable, how much influence do I have, and so on - all of the things we

consider when we look at these types of difficulties for our CHARGErs.

What does this have to do with Deepok - basically with Tyler, with Dylan,

even with myself - I believe that the malleable changeable part is there and

the static genetic or medical diagnoses part is also there and I know the

malleable part can be huge in impacting the " static " part and yet as much as

Deepok says we generate a complete new set of cells each day(? Length of

time) I have a hard time getting to the point that I can see the static part

simply being gone one day.

Okay back to this am - so even after filling in Dylan's heart healing story,

I still don't see quantum physics changing any genetic patterns Tyler or

Dylan have, but it certainly allows great room for enhancing their function

and possibility in the world in many many ways. I would think 's

Chiari would be the same and can see the concern about manipulations and so

on, but now that I put Dylan's story down about Johreih that makes me

wonder, because the simplistic explanation of Johreih is " channeling the

light of God to a particular area with intention of healing "

And again I am hoping that most of the list has tuned out for this

philosophy session, but stayed in tune for the message of hope.

Kim

> I don't know, Kim. I don't know if I have enough time. I don't know if I

> dare take a chance on any physical manipulation, even the mild ones like CST

> and HANDLE.

> I don't even know if I have time enough to 'jump probabilities', and the

> only one I have to manipulate for that is me. But that's a tall order. Letting

> go is one thing, but the point of attention must be effortless. Truthfully,

> I'm not that good at it, especially with the stress of a deadline, and with

> so much attachment to the outcome. (There are advanced technique courses,

> which I have not had the benefit of). I do see some humor in these

> statements..

> especially from an outside point of view. It's ok to laugh, I won't see you.

> Just don't tell me..

> I already attempted to get a cine-mri scheduled b4 surgery. I gave him one

> reason, but I really had another reason for requesting it. He doesn't see

> the

> need.

> What am I going to do/say? I don't think he'd be impressed with my efforts.

> On the other hand, no one that I've studied or met with has ever suggested

> that we walk away from traditional medicine. I read of some self-healing done

> in Silva Mind Control. Alot of it was really painful, made me not so

> interested.

> I'm putting my attention more onto creating a more healthful state for her

> prior to surgery, and for her recovery. Then we should have the opportunity

> to persue those other avenues, and

> I'm really looking forward to that.

> Peace,

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

- I so agree with you about the attention and being detached from the

outcome - too hard to do for your own dear child.

I find it interesting that you brought up quantum physics today, because Roy

and I were talking about it this weekend - the extent of my knowledge is a

couple of Deepok tapes and books; just enough to be intrigued by the

possibility of it all. Much of it resonates in me as truth, yet I do not

have faith that I could let go of my knowledge pertaining to a diagnosis to

allow the change in cells that occur continually to lead to a reality

without the diagnosis. I KNOW (meaning resonates as truth to me) it is

possible, but I KNOW I get in the way.

One example where healing happened - Dylan had a large ASD, basically no

wall at all between the upper chambers. The hole was large enough that they

were not going to be able to use a balloon procedure to close it, because

there was not enough wall for the balloon to attach to on either side.

Diagnosed age 2 weeks. At first I am hopeful that it will close on its own,

although medically I am told it is too big to close on its own (picture a

cut healing - healing happens on both sides then grows together to close in

the opening, if the cut is too wide you need stitches to bring the two sides

together. We had a friend do Johreih on him, because he wanted to and we

didn't think it would hurt. Then life moved on. Every time we see the

doctor, it is talk about when to do the surgery, not if, but when. My

medical knowledge is saying surgery is a definite, clouding out my " faith in

possibility " that defines me. I begin to get anxious about Dylan having

open heart surgery - I remember a child who died during an ASD repair that I

cared for right after my first child died - very uncommon - but I think the

mom knew going in. My anxiety for the surgery builds. Then I see a Touched

By An Angel episode and the visual of God as the surgeon, working through

the hands of the doctor came to me, and my fears left me. I know that all my

life experiences have taught me that as painful as something is good always

comes of it, so without telling myself to, I simply was able to let go of

the outcome of Dylan's surgery. My being simply knew that it would be okay

either way. So we go in for the echo to " prepare for surgery " as it says on

the requisition. The tech looks and looks, then she looks at us with

amazement and says, " there is no hole, not even a hint of a hole " so

somewhere in all of that the hole healed and he did not need the surgery.

Even now though, I do not feel I was in control of if it healed or did not

heal - it was simply an incredible miraculous blessing - one that took me to

my knees (physically bowled me over) in gratitude and yet offers truth to

this whole quantum physics thing.

Now the part I was trying to write last night if you care to continue.

So I am in the midst of the questioning if Tyler has childhood onset bipolar

and not " simply " Inattentive ADD and learning disabilities - on one hand I

know it is just a label, and the only use for the label is to help guide my

understanding (and hopefully his) of what happens for him and then figure

out better ways to respond - yet the media image of bipolar and even the

statistics about substance abuse, number in prison etc for those with

bipolar is frankly terrifying so hard to let go of the concern of Is it or

Isn't it. Then we know that the DSM manuals are based on behaviors and we

know behavior is not static, but we also know that there is a genetic

component, which implies to me that part cannot be changed. Then we add on

parenting tapes that say " even if they have bipolar and end up in jail, it

is only because they didn't learn the skills - ie parents did not teach them

the skills, and instead let them get away with ineffective coping patterns. "

So in my mind I have been trying to sort all this out how much is

changeable, how much influence do I have, and so on - all of the things we

consider when we look at these types of difficulties for our CHARGErs.

What does this have to do with Deepok - basically with Tyler, with Dylan,

even with myself - I believe that the malleable changeable part is there and

the static genetic or medical diagnoses part is also there and I know the

malleable part can be huge in impacting the " static " part and yet as much as

Deepok says we generate a complete new set of cells each day(? Length of

time) I have a hard time getting to the point that I can see the static part

simply being gone one day.

Okay back to this am - so even after filling in Dylan's heart healing story,

I still don't see quantum physics changing any genetic patterns Tyler or

Dylan have, but it certainly allows great room for enhancing their function

and possibility in the world in many many ways. I would think 's

Chiari would be the same and can see the concern about manipulations and so

on, but now that I put Dylan's story down about Johreih that makes me

wonder, because the simplistic explanation of Johreih is " channeling the

light of God to a particular area with intention of healing "

And again I am hoping that most of the list has tuned out for this

philosophy session, but stayed in tune for the message of hope.

Kim

> I don't know, Kim. I don't know if I have enough time. I don't know if I

> dare take a chance on any physical manipulation, even the mild ones like CST

> and HANDLE.

> I don't even know if I have time enough to 'jump probabilities', and the

> only one I have to manipulate for that is me. But that's a tall order. Letting

> go is one thing, but the point of attention must be effortless. Truthfully,

> I'm not that good at it, especially with the stress of a deadline, and with

> so much attachment to the outcome. (There are advanced technique courses,

> which I have not had the benefit of). I do see some humor in these

> statements..

> especially from an outside point of view. It's ok to laugh, I won't see you.

> Just don't tell me..

> I already attempted to get a cine-mri scheduled b4 surgery. I gave him one

> reason, but I really had another reason for requesting it. He doesn't see

> the

> need.

> What am I going to do/say? I don't think he'd be impressed with my efforts.

> On the other hand, no one that I've studied or met with has ever suggested

> that we walk away from traditional medicine. I read of some self-healing done

> in Silva Mind Control. Alot of it was really painful, made me not so

> interested.

> I'm putting my attention more onto creating a more healthful state for her

> prior to surgery, and for her recovery. Then we should have the opportunity

> to persue those other avenues, and

> I'm really looking forward to that.

> Peace,

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

- I so agree with you about the attention and being detached from the

outcome - too hard to do for your own dear child.

I find it interesting that you brought up quantum physics today, because Roy

and I were talking about it this weekend - the extent of my knowledge is a

couple of Deepok tapes and books; just enough to be intrigued by the

possibility of it all. Much of it resonates in me as truth, yet I do not

have faith that I could let go of my knowledge pertaining to a diagnosis to

allow the change in cells that occur continually to lead to a reality

without the diagnosis. I KNOW (meaning resonates as truth to me) it is

possible, but I KNOW I get in the way.

One example where healing happened - Dylan had a large ASD, basically no

wall at all between the upper chambers. The hole was large enough that they

were not going to be able to use a balloon procedure to close it, because

there was not enough wall for the balloon to attach to on either side.

Diagnosed age 2 weeks. At first I am hopeful that it will close on its own,

although medically I am told it is too big to close on its own (picture a

cut healing - healing happens on both sides then grows together to close in

the opening, if the cut is too wide you need stitches to bring the two sides

together. We had a friend do Johreih on him, because he wanted to and we

didn't think it would hurt. Then life moved on. Every time we see the

doctor, it is talk about when to do the surgery, not if, but when. My

medical knowledge is saying surgery is a definite, clouding out my " faith in

possibility " that defines me. I begin to get anxious about Dylan having

open heart surgery - I remember a child who died during an ASD repair that I

cared for right after my first child died - very uncommon - but I think the

mom knew going in. My anxiety for the surgery builds. Then I see a Touched

By An Angel episode and the visual of God as the surgeon, working through

the hands of the doctor came to me, and my fears left me. I know that all my

life experiences have taught me that as painful as something is good always

comes of it, so without telling myself to, I simply was able to let go of

the outcome of Dylan's surgery. My being simply knew that it would be okay

either way. So we go in for the echo to " prepare for surgery " as it says on

the requisition. The tech looks and looks, then she looks at us with

amazement and says, " there is no hole, not even a hint of a hole " so

somewhere in all of that the hole healed and he did not need the surgery.

Even now though, I do not feel I was in control of if it healed or did not

heal - it was simply an incredible miraculous blessing - one that took me to

my knees (physically bowled me over) in gratitude and yet offers truth to

this whole quantum physics thing.

Now the part I was trying to write last night if you care to continue.

So I am in the midst of the questioning if Tyler has childhood onset bipolar

and not " simply " Inattentive ADD and learning disabilities - on one hand I

know it is just a label, and the only use for the label is to help guide my

understanding (and hopefully his) of what happens for him and then figure

out better ways to respond - yet the media image of bipolar and even the

statistics about substance abuse, number in prison etc for those with

bipolar is frankly terrifying so hard to let go of the concern of Is it or

Isn't it. Then we know that the DSM manuals are based on behaviors and we

know behavior is not static, but we also know that there is a genetic

component, which implies to me that part cannot be changed. Then we add on

parenting tapes that say " even if they have bipolar and end up in jail, it

is only because they didn't learn the skills - ie parents did not teach them

the skills, and instead let them get away with ineffective coping patterns. "

So in my mind I have been trying to sort all this out how much is

changeable, how much influence do I have, and so on - all of the things we

consider when we look at these types of difficulties for our CHARGErs.

What does this have to do with Deepok - basically with Tyler, with Dylan,

even with myself - I believe that the malleable changeable part is there and

the static genetic or medical diagnoses part is also there and I know the

malleable part can be huge in impacting the " static " part and yet as much as

Deepok says we generate a complete new set of cells each day(? Length of

time) I have a hard time getting to the point that I can see the static part

simply being gone one day.

Okay back to this am - so even after filling in Dylan's heart healing story,

I still don't see quantum physics changing any genetic patterns Tyler or

Dylan have, but it certainly allows great room for enhancing their function

and possibility in the world in many many ways. I would think 's

Chiari would be the same and can see the concern about manipulations and so

on, but now that I put Dylan's story down about Johreih that makes me

wonder, because the simplistic explanation of Johreih is " channeling the

light of God to a particular area with intention of healing "

And again I am hoping that most of the list has tuned out for this

philosophy session, but stayed in tune for the message of hope.

Kim

> I don't know, Kim. I don't know if I have enough time. I don't know if I

> dare take a chance on any physical manipulation, even the mild ones like CST

> and HANDLE.

> I don't even know if I have time enough to 'jump probabilities', and the

> only one I have to manipulate for that is me. But that's a tall order. Letting

> go is one thing, but the point of attention must be effortless. Truthfully,

> I'm not that good at it, especially with the stress of a deadline, and with

> so much attachment to the outcome. (There are advanced technique courses,

> which I have not had the benefit of). I do see some humor in these

> statements..

> especially from an outside point of view. It's ok to laugh, I won't see you.

> Just don't tell me..

> I already attempted to get a cine-mri scheduled b4 surgery. I gave him one

> reason, but I really had another reason for requesting it. He doesn't see

> the

> need.

> What am I going to do/say? I don't think he'd be impressed with my efforts.

> On the other hand, no one that I've studied or met with has ever suggested

> that we walk away from traditional medicine. I read of some self-healing done

> in Silva Mind Control. Alot of it was really painful, made me not so

> interested.

> I'm putting my attention more onto creating a more healthful state for her

> prior to surgery, and for her recovery. Then we should have the opportunity

> to persue those other avenues, and

> I'm really looking forward to that.

> Peace,

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim,

we have not tuned out, " When Kim speaks, we all listen " (remember that old

commercial?). This is a fascinating discussion.

pam

Pamela J. , M.A., CAGS

Licensed Educational Psychologist

Perkins School for the Blind, Deafblind Program

175 North Beacon St.

Watertown, MA 02472

> ----------

> From: CHARGE on behalf of Kim Lauger

> Reply To: CHARGE

> Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2006 1:22 PM

> To: CHARGE

> Subject: Re: Kim-Di's surgery ,very very long!

>

> - I so agree with you about the attention and being detached from the

> outcome - too hard to do for your own dear child.

>

> I find it interesting that you brought up quantum physics today, because Roy

> and I were talking about it this weekend - the extent of my knowledge is a

> couple of Deepok tapes and books; just enough to be intrigued by the

> possibility of it all. Much of it resonates in me as truth, yet I do not

> have faith that I could let go of my knowledge pertaining to a diagnosis to

> allow the change in cells that occur continually to lead to a reality

> without the diagnosis. I KNOW (meaning resonates as truth to me) it is

> possible, but I KNOW I get in the way.

>

> One example where healing happened - Dylan had a large ASD, basically no

> wall at all between the upper chambers. The hole was large enough that they

> were not going to be able to use a balloon procedure to close it, because

> there was not enough wall for the balloon to attach to on either side.

> Diagnosed age 2 weeks. At first I am hopeful that it will close on its own,

> although medically I am told it is too big to close on its own (picture a

> cut healing - healing happens on both sides then grows together to close in

> the opening, if the cut is too wide you need stitches to bring the two sides

> together. We had a friend do Johreih on him, because he wanted to and we

> didn't think it would hurt. Then life moved on. Every time we see the

> doctor, it is talk about when to do the surgery, not if, but when. My

> medical knowledge is saying surgery is a definite, clouding out my " faith in

> possibility " that defines me. I begin to get anxious about Dylan having

> open heart surgery - I remember a child who died during an ASD repair that I

> cared for right after my first child died - very uncommon - but I think the

> mom knew going in. My anxiety for the surgery builds. Then I see a Touched

> By An Angel episode and the visual of God as the surgeon, working through

> the hands of the doctor came to me, and my fears left me. I know that all my

> life experiences have taught me that as painful as something is good always

> comes of it, so without telling myself to, I simply was able to let go of

> the outcome of Dylan's surgery. My being simply knew that it would be okay

> either way. So we go in for the echo to " prepare for surgery " as it says on

> the requisition. The tech looks and looks, then she looks at us with

> amazement and says, " there is no hole, not even a hint of a hole " so

> somewhere in all of that the hole healed and he did not need the surgery.

>

> Even now though, I do not feel I was in control of if it healed or did not

> heal - it was simply an incredible miraculous blessing - one that took me to

> my knees (physically bowled me over) in gratitude and yet offers truth to

> this whole quantum physics thing.

>

> Now the part I was trying to write last night if you care to continue.

>

> So I am in the midst of the questioning if Tyler has childhood onset bipolar

> and not " simply " Inattentive ADD and learning disabilities - on one hand I

> know it is just a label, and the only use for the label is to help guide my

> understanding (and hopefully his) of what happens for him and then figure

> out better ways to respond - yet the media image of bipolar and even the

> statistics about substance abuse, number in prison etc for those with>

> bipolar is frankly terrifying so hard to let go of the concern of Is it or

> Isn't it. Then we know that the DSM manuals are based on behaviors and we

> know behavior is not static, but we also know that there is a genetic

> component, which implies to me that part cannot be changed. Then we add on

> parenting tapes that say " even if they have bipolar and end up in jail, it

> is only because they didn't learn the skills - ie parents did not teach them

> the skills, and instead let them get away with ineffective coping patterns. "

> So in my mind I have been trying to sort all this out how much is

> changeable, how much influence do I have, and so on - all of the things we

> consider when we look at these types of difficulties for our CHARGErs.

>

> What does this have to do with Deepok - basically with Tyler, with Dylan,

> even with myself - I believe that the malleable changeable part is there and

> the static genetic or medical diagnoses part is also there and I know the

> malleable part can be huge in impacting the " static " part and yet as much as

> Deepok says we generate a complete new set of cells each day(? Length of

> time) I have a hard time getting to the point that I can see the static part

> simply being gone one day.

>

> Okay back to this am - so even after filling in Dylan's heart healing story,

> I still don't see quantum physics changing any genetic patterns Tyler or

> Dylan have, but it certainly allows great room for enhancing their function

> and possibility in the world in many many ways. I would think 's

> Chiari would be the same and can see the concern about manipulations and so

> on, but now that I put Dylan's story down about Johreih that makes me

> wonder, because the simplistic explanation of Johreih is " channeling the

> light of God to a particular area with intention of healing "

>

> And again I am hoping that most of the list has tuned out for this

> philosophy session, but stayed in tune for the message of hope.

>

> Kim

>

>

>

>

> > I don't know, Kim. I don't know if I have enough time. I don't know if I

> > dare take a chance on any physical manipulation, even the mild ones like

CST

> > and HANDLE.

> > I don't even know if I have time enough to 'jump probabilities', and the

> > only one I have to manipulate for that is me. But that's a tall order.

Letting

> > go is one thing, but the point of attention must be effortless.

Truthfully,

> > I'm not that good at it, especially with the stress of a deadline, and with

> > so much attachment to the outcome. (There are advanced technique courses,

> > which I have not had the benefit of). I do see some humor in these

> > statements..

> > especially from an outside point of view. It's ok to laugh, I won't see

you.

> > Just don't tell me..

> > I already attempted to get a cine-mri scheduled b4 surgery. I gave him one

> > reason, but I really had another reason for requesting it. He doesn't see

> > the

> > need.

> > What am I going to do/say? I don't think he'd be impressed with my

efforts.

> > On the other hand, no one that I've studied or met with has ever suggested

> > that we walk away from traditional medicine. I read of some self-healing

done

> > in Silva Mind Control. Alot of it was really painful, made me not so

> > interested.

> > I'm putting my attention more onto creating a more healthful state for her

> > prior to surgery, and for her recovery. Then we should have the

opportunity

> > to persue those other avenues, and

> > I'm really looking forward to that.

> > Peace,

> > in Ma.

> > Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> > years now)

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, yes, from the bottom of my toes, as a long-time lover of words

myself. And my mind

thinks its a gas to be totally caught in the confusion of conflicting

hypotheses. I mean, like that helps anything.

this might get a giggle: you know how the mind is busy defining

everything-giving some familiar shape and form to all experience in order to

catagorize

or cope with it. Well, I had that major " joy rush " and a physical

(complementary response), sensation of joy, right below the belly buttom. So my

obliging

brain gave it shape in the form of an East Indian dancer.(I know, what if I

had learned from a Hungarian-lol) I'm sure U've seen the figurine somewhere.

He/she has several arms, a head dress, one leg is raised, two arms in a

karate like position , the others just out and about somewhere. And this thing

was

spinning, dancing-and with each spin it gave a kick-and with each kick, I

got a shot of JOY!...and NOooooo-I was not on drugs---well, there's one I've

never told anybody! That was definitely a new one on me. Now, what about the

guy who made the statue? Where did his inspiration come from? maybe this is a

shared phenomenon. don't know, doesn't matter.

I had a friend who decided to meditate. As she was coming to the point of

decision, I used an analogy of 2 sandboxes. The sh*t sandbox, and the sunshine

sandbox. Need I say more?You would have been proud of me. I took that

analogy every which way there is to go with it. And yes, she got better. And

the

world was able to be better to her. And then.........

tomorrow, I have to get back to those flashes of visions..important stuff.

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

Thank goodness he has that peace within.

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I was just reading about Johrei. Another country of origin-same wisdom.

Feels comfortable. Is this your sister's?

Will save it for the am when I'm more alert.

Little harder to breathe here-lungs collect ice crystals.

(that might be a tad dramatic-but, it is cold out there)

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

Okay you will appreciate the humor in this.

There was an article talking about a person's experience with TM and how

painful it was at first - to detach from thought, from word and to enter the

gap, then talking about the intensity of sensation, the overwhelming joy of

it, to realize your thoughts do not define you.... Now the thought of that

is pure bliss to my husband. As you may have guessed by now, I am rather

fond of words and the thought of being separate from words is in a word

TERRIFYING to me.

I find it interesting that I can go through a 2 hr conversation with my

friend and the flashes of vision that hit our minds at the same time are

awesome, now with Roy that could not happen - he needs the silence.

Me on the other hand I crave movement and breathing, like in breath walking

and Tai Chi for my meditative time, but it is clearly not TM.

More thoughts (words) and now back to work.

Kim

> Kim,

> Very, very thoughtful too. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very

> special story regarding Dylan's (scheduled) heart surgery. Yes, a miracle.

> (As is

> anything, I guess, that is outside our realm of normal human

> expectation/experience). I wonder what the surgeon's reaction was. I am

> open to that type

> of outcome, as well. (She said emphatically!)

> I don't know if you saw/heard from Deepak; he said, " If you were to ask me

> what is the most important thing in my life, I would say that it is the

> experience of transcending, twice a day... "

> He probably is not practicing 'western medicine' any longer, but the doctor

> I took to for her tantrum healing does practice both western and

> ayurvedic medicine, and practices TM . So, they are not seeing a conflict

> between

> employing traditional methods of healing and the practice of meditation. And

> all forms of meditation have value. I just happen to agree with Deepak and

> others that TM seems to be the most efficient method of transcending thought.

> It was for me.

> And that's the key-the transcending aspect. Without that key component,

> then again, we are just having or reading intellectual discussions about

> it-like talking about HANDLE, but never doing it, or just relaxing-helpful,

> but not

> IT.

> That is the number 1 drawback to philosophy, per se. It can open your mind,

> enrich your life, but really its just a complilation of ideas. I want to go

> beyond ideas.

> Even I've had enough of philosophy ! It was a path, but it's served its

> purpose.

> You must be intrigued by what your friend did, by what Dr. Glaser did for

> , and if you're interested, I too have other experiences to share.

> I believe Deepak is trying to loosen our grip on what we call reality, so

> that we can open up to new possibilities. But once again, they are only

> words-not the experience of it.

> I can't say much about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He is great for making this

> knowledge available, his only heart's desire is for peace on earth. He makes

> every attempt to keep the technique pure. The importance of that becomes

> clear

> as one sits with an instructor, and as one meditates.

> Medicine, herbs, food, supplements. they are all 'medicine' to me. Just that

> some are synthetic and some are natural. Everything is in the point of

> view. There are only a very few people on earth who exist in such harmony

> with

> Nature, that they require nothing. Even sages and disciples die from

> diseases.

> We all need a way out. There is no conflict in using tools-this what they

> call the the material plane, you know? I don't recall ever levitating

> anything

> (tongue in cheek).

> But I'll be darned if you have to use any tool that is insulting or

> belittling to you. I hope those tapes are in the trash.

> Meditation allows us to bring out another talent that we already possess,

> but that lies fairly dormant, as we constantly cover over it, or override it

> with our thoughts. But it is a subtle, quiet, but a powerful and creative

> tool. We are like a " musician in waiting " , we won't know our talent till we

> pick

> up the instrument. You are familiar with your own intuitive nature. That's

> a part of what lies underneath the thoughts we have.

> And lastly for now, about the process of creating at the level of the gap

> (between thoughts).I think this time, I'm just going to " let go what goes,

> and

> let come what comes. "

> and appreciate the benefits as I go along. We don't have to create the path.

> We just need to sit and do the thing for 20 minutes 2x daily. Everything

> else will be taken care of. The knowledge unfolds from within.

> Love you for spending so much of your time on such a thoughtful answer to my

> post.

> I appreciate it very much. Peace.

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay you will appreciate the humor in this.

There was an article talking about a person's experience with TM and how

painful it was at first - to detach from thought, from word and to enter the

gap, then talking about the intensity of sensation, the overwhelming joy of

it, to realize your thoughts do not define you.... Now the thought of that

is pure bliss to my husband. As you may have guessed by now, I am rather

fond of words and the thought of being separate from words is in a word

TERRIFYING to me.

I find it interesting that I can go through a 2 hr conversation with my

friend and the flashes of vision that hit our minds at the same time are

awesome, now with Roy that could not happen - he needs the silence.

Me on the other hand I crave movement and breathing, like in breath walking

and Tai Chi for my meditative time, but it is clearly not TM.

More thoughts (words) and now back to work.

Kim

> Kim,

> Very, very thoughtful too. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very

> special story regarding Dylan's (scheduled) heart surgery. Yes, a miracle.

> (As is

> anything, I guess, that is outside our realm of normal human

> expectation/experience). I wonder what the surgeon's reaction was. I am

> open to that type

> of outcome, as well. (She said emphatically!)

> I don't know if you saw/heard from Deepak; he said, " If you were to ask me

> what is the most important thing in my life, I would say that it is the

> experience of transcending, twice a day... "

> He probably is not practicing 'western medicine' any longer, but the doctor

> I took to for her tantrum healing does practice both western and

> ayurvedic medicine, and practices TM . So, they are not seeing a conflict

> between

> employing traditional methods of healing and the practice of meditation. And

> all forms of meditation have value. I just happen to agree with Deepak and

> others that TM seems to be the most efficient method of transcending thought.

> It was for me.

> And that's the key-the transcending aspect. Without that key component,

> then again, we are just having or reading intellectual discussions about

> it-like talking about HANDLE, but never doing it, or just relaxing-helpful,

> but not

> IT.

> That is the number 1 drawback to philosophy, per se. It can open your mind,

> enrich your life, but really its just a complilation of ideas. I want to go

> beyond ideas.

> Even I've had enough of philosophy ! It was a path, but it's served its

> purpose.

> You must be intrigued by what your friend did, by what Dr. Glaser did for

> , and if you're interested, I too have other experiences to share.

> I believe Deepak is trying to loosen our grip on what we call reality, so

> that we can open up to new possibilities. But once again, they are only

> words-not the experience of it.

> I can't say much about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He is great for making this

> knowledge available, his only heart's desire is for peace on earth. He makes

> every attempt to keep the technique pure. The importance of that becomes

> clear

> as one sits with an instructor, and as one meditates.

> Medicine, herbs, food, supplements. they are all 'medicine' to me. Just that

> some are synthetic and some are natural. Everything is in the point of

> view. There are only a very few people on earth who exist in such harmony

> with

> Nature, that they require nothing. Even sages and disciples die from

> diseases.

> We all need a way out. There is no conflict in using tools-this what they

> call the the material plane, you know? I don't recall ever levitating

> anything

> (tongue in cheek).

> But I'll be darned if you have to use any tool that is insulting or

> belittling to you. I hope those tapes are in the trash.

> Meditation allows us to bring out another talent that we already possess,

> but that lies fairly dormant, as we constantly cover over it, or override it

> with our thoughts. But it is a subtle, quiet, but a powerful and creative

> tool. We are like a " musician in waiting " , we won't know our talent till we

> pick

> up the instrument. You are familiar with your own intuitive nature. That's

> a part of what lies underneath the thoughts we have.

> And lastly for now, about the process of creating at the level of the gap

> (between thoughts).I think this time, I'm just going to " let go what goes,

> and

> let come what comes. "

> and appreciate the benefits as I go along. We don't have to create the path.

> We just need to sit and do the thing for 20 minutes 2x daily. Everything

> else will be taken care of. The knowledge unfolds from within.

> Love you for spending so much of your time on such a thoughtful answer to my

> post.

> I appreciate it very much. Peace.

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay you will appreciate the humor in this.

There was an article talking about a person's experience with TM and how

painful it was at first - to detach from thought, from word and to enter the

gap, then talking about the intensity of sensation, the overwhelming joy of

it, to realize your thoughts do not define you.... Now the thought of that

is pure bliss to my husband. As you may have guessed by now, I am rather

fond of words and the thought of being separate from words is in a word

TERRIFYING to me.

I find it interesting that I can go through a 2 hr conversation with my

friend and the flashes of vision that hit our minds at the same time are

awesome, now with Roy that could not happen - he needs the silence.

Me on the other hand I crave movement and breathing, like in breath walking

and Tai Chi for my meditative time, but it is clearly not TM.

More thoughts (words) and now back to work.

Kim

> Kim,

> Very, very thoughtful too. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very

> special story regarding Dylan's (scheduled) heart surgery. Yes, a miracle.

> (As is

> anything, I guess, that is outside our realm of normal human

> expectation/experience). I wonder what the surgeon's reaction was. I am

> open to that type

> of outcome, as well. (She said emphatically!)

> I don't know if you saw/heard from Deepak; he said, " If you were to ask me

> what is the most important thing in my life, I would say that it is the

> experience of transcending, twice a day... "

> He probably is not practicing 'western medicine' any longer, but the doctor

> I took to for her tantrum healing does practice both western and

> ayurvedic medicine, and practices TM . So, they are not seeing a conflict

> between

> employing traditional methods of healing and the practice of meditation. And

> all forms of meditation have value. I just happen to agree with Deepak and

> others that TM seems to be the most efficient method of transcending thought.

> It was for me.

> And that's the key-the transcending aspect. Without that key component,

> then again, we are just having or reading intellectual discussions about

> it-like talking about HANDLE, but never doing it, or just relaxing-helpful,

> but not

> IT.

> That is the number 1 drawback to philosophy, per se. It can open your mind,

> enrich your life, but really its just a complilation of ideas. I want to go

> beyond ideas.

> Even I've had enough of philosophy ! It was a path, but it's served its

> purpose.

> You must be intrigued by what your friend did, by what Dr. Glaser did for

> , and if you're interested, I too have other experiences to share.

> I believe Deepak is trying to loosen our grip on what we call reality, so

> that we can open up to new possibilities. But once again, they are only

> words-not the experience of it.

> I can't say much about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He is great for making this

> knowledge available, his only heart's desire is for peace on earth. He makes

> every attempt to keep the technique pure. The importance of that becomes

> clear

> as one sits with an instructor, and as one meditates.

> Medicine, herbs, food, supplements. they are all 'medicine' to me. Just that

> some are synthetic and some are natural. Everything is in the point of

> view. There are only a very few people on earth who exist in such harmony

> with

> Nature, that they require nothing. Even sages and disciples die from

> diseases.

> We all need a way out. There is no conflict in using tools-this what they

> call the the material plane, you know? I don't recall ever levitating

> anything

> (tongue in cheek).

> But I'll be darned if you have to use any tool that is insulting or

> belittling to you. I hope those tapes are in the trash.

> Meditation allows us to bring out another talent that we already possess,

> but that lies fairly dormant, as we constantly cover over it, or override it

> with our thoughts. But it is a subtle, quiet, but a powerful and creative

> tool. We are like a " musician in waiting " , we won't know our talent till we

> pick

> up the instrument. You are familiar with your own intuitive nature. That's

> a part of what lies underneath the thoughts we have.

> And lastly for now, about the process of creating at the level of the gap

> (between thoughts).I think this time, I'm just going to " let go what goes,

> and

> let come what comes. "

> and appreciate the benefits as I go along. We don't have to create the path.

> We just need to sit and do the thing for 20 minutes 2x daily. Everything

> else will be taken care of. The knowledge unfolds from within.

> Love you for spending so much of your time on such a thoughtful answer to my

> post.

> I appreciate it very much. Peace.

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Could explain why Dylan is such a blissfully peaceful person and why he

feels more other worldly - of course now that he " improves " in some areas he

becomes more of this world - fortunately still a contented, peaceful, happy

being.

> you know how the mind is busy defining

> everything-giving some familiar shape and form to all experience in order to

> catagorize

> or cope with it.

[Guest guest]

yes, I was thinking of . I thought U said she had her meditation alter.

I thought she could be practicing nishrin di shonen, a strong meditation

of personal power, but U didn't respond, so I assumed that was not her

practice. I do marvel at the strength and clarity I can only imagine she

must

possess.

Yes, a year is a long time to assign cause and effect, but I'm

going to hang on to it anyway. johrei offers a prayer group for distance

healing, so I'm interested to read more about them.

I know I'm rock gathering to fortify my " faith foundation " , not to weather

the

storm, but to rise her above it.

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

I didn't get this part - are you recalling that my sister does martial

arts? She is a black belt in poekoelan and trains on the Cape.

The Johrei person was a customer of Roy's when Dylan was born - he wanted to

do the Johrei as a gift to us, so we were open to possibilities of healing,

but we did not go into it with the intention of healing anything specific.

I did tell him all the things " wrong " and he focused on the heart. The

repeat echo was not done until about a year later, so there is no way to say

if this had anything to do with it, but it is a variable that I consider

relevant.

Kim

> Is this your sister's?

[Guest guest]

Yes she does have the meditation alter, I think all she has learned has come

from " Massa Guru " - however that is really spelled. Willie's Gym.

- by all means fortify your faith foundation, the more able we are to

be with them anticipating the storm, getting through the storm, and even

rising above the storm.

Kim

> yes, I was thinking of . I thought U said she had her meditation alter.

> I thought she could be practicing nishrin di shonen, a strong meditation

> of personal power, but U didn't respond, so I assumed that was not her

> practice. I do marvel at the strength and clarity I can only imagine she

> must

> possess.

> Yes, a year is a long time to assign cause and effect, but I'm

> going to hang on to it anyway. johrei offers a prayer group for distance

> healing, so I'm interested to read more about them.

> I know I'm rock gathering to fortify my " faith foundation " , not to weather

> the

> storm, but to rise her above it.

>

> in Ma.

> Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

> years now)

>

>

>