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In a message dated 3/15/2004 8:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

semesky@... writes:

http://idea.uwosh.edu/sped/yearone/policy/pdf/policy.pdf

______________

This is a great resource. However, it is about Special Educational

requirements not " deaf " ones. It's information is based on IDEA classiffication

which

can be applied for any number of reasons. I never found any law or guideline

that was for " deaf " only. The laws are based on the classification status and

needs related to that classification.

At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question. Are

you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the kids'

needs?

-- Jill

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In a message dated 3/15/2004 8:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

semesky@... writes:

http://idea.uwosh.edu/sped/yearone/policy/pdf/policy.pdf

______________

This is a great resource. However, it is about Special Educational

requirements not " deaf " ones. It's information is based on IDEA classiffication

which

can be applied for any number of reasons. I never found any law or guideline

that was for " deaf " only. The laws are based on the classification status and

needs related to that classification.

At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question. Are

you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the kids'

needs?

-- Jill

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Guest guest

I think this is as close as you're going to get to class size info. I know

of no deaf/hoh data. Further, if your child is mainstreamed, class size is

determined by the regular ed classification.

Re: class size report

> In a message dated 3/15/2004 8:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> semesky@... writes:

> http://idea.uwosh.edu/sped/yearone/policy/pdf/policy.pdf

> ______________

>

> This is a great resource. However, it is about Special Educational

> requirements not " deaf " ones. It's information is based on IDEA

classiffication which

> can be applied for any number of reasons. I never found any law or

guideline

> that was for " deaf " only. The laws are based on the classification status

and

> needs related to that classification.

>

> At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question.

Are

> you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the

kids'

> needs?

>

> -- Jill

>

>

>

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Guest guest

I think this is as close as you're going to get to class size info. I know

of no deaf/hoh data. Further, if your child is mainstreamed, class size is

determined by the regular ed classification.

Re: class size report

> In a message dated 3/15/2004 8:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> semesky@... writes:

> http://idea.uwosh.edu/sped/yearone/policy/pdf/policy.pdf

> ______________

>

> This is a great resource. However, it is about Special Educational

> requirements not " deaf " ones. It's information is based on IDEA

classiffication which

> can be applied for any number of reasons. I never found any law or

guideline

> that was for " deaf " only. The laws are based on the classification status

and

> needs related to that classification.

>

> At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question.

Are

> you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the

kids'

> needs?

>

> -- Jill

>

>

>

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Guest guest

I think this is as close as you're going to get to class size info. I know

of no deaf/hoh data. Further, if your child is mainstreamed, class size is

determined by the regular ed classification.

Re: class size report

> In a message dated 3/15/2004 8:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> semesky@... writes:

> http://idea.uwosh.edu/sped/yearone/policy/pdf/policy.pdf

> ______________

>

> This is a great resource. However, it is about Special Educational

> requirements not " deaf " ones. It's information is based on IDEA

classiffication which

> can be applied for any number of reasons. I never found any law or

guideline

> that was for " deaf " only. The laws are based on the classification status

and

> needs related to that classification.

>

> At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question.

Are

> you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the

kids'

> needs?

>

> -- Jill

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Angel,

What you've described is a question about her being placed in the LRE (least

restrictive environment). It sounds like she's not in a LRE setting right now.

She does not have models for her langauge aquisition. She does not have

appropriate models for behavior.

The issue perhaps should be finding a nursery school program that is

accredited by the state to accept kids with special but not extreme needs. It

does not

have to be a district-run program. Locally we have an EI program that is run

through a local hospital, I believe supported by the state. It address

language delays (my nephew is in it for that alone) and a friend's daughter has

been

in it based on her hearing loss and the needs caused by that. I'm not sure if

the state or local district picks up the tab for the program, but it is not

run by any one district and it takes kids from several local districts.

Perhaps if there is no appropriate program, your daughter could do an

afternoon or two a week in a regular nursery school. That way she would be

interacting with " regular " kids in preparation for being mainstreamed in

kindergarten --

from your note it sounds like she is heading towards that.

Best -- Jill

_______________________________________________________________

In a message dated 3/15/2004 1:33:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

angelgasior@... writes:

At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question. Are

you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the kids'

needs?

-- Jill

I asked the question because the only placement they are offering us for

has no maximum number of students permitted. I am worried about the

possibility of too much noise and no assistance for her because she is extremely

capable compared to the other children with multiple disabilities. I believe

this is an inappropriate placement because there are no speech role models for

(other than the teacher). I also don't think the pace of the class would

be challenging enough to keep her interest, which makes me worry about

behavior issues. She is going to be 3. Her teacher from Infant and Toddlers and

her

therapist at Hopkins feels she needs to be mainstreamed. Unfortunately, my

district doesn't offer a mainstream program for 3 year olds. I am at a real

loss for finding an appropriate program.

Angel in land

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Angel,

What you've described is a question about her being placed in the LRE (least

restrictive environment). It sounds like she's not in a LRE setting right now.

She does not have models for her langauge aquisition. She does not have

appropriate models for behavior.

The issue perhaps should be finding a nursery school program that is

accredited by the state to accept kids with special but not extreme needs. It

does not

have to be a district-run program. Locally we have an EI program that is run

through a local hospital, I believe supported by the state. It address

language delays (my nephew is in it for that alone) and a friend's daughter has

been

in it based on her hearing loss and the needs caused by that. I'm not sure if

the state or local district picks up the tab for the program, but it is not

run by any one district and it takes kids from several local districts.

Perhaps if there is no appropriate program, your daughter could do an

afternoon or two a week in a regular nursery school. That way she would be

interacting with " regular " kids in preparation for being mainstreamed in

kindergarten --

from your note it sounds like she is heading towards that.

Best -- Jill

_______________________________________________________________

In a message dated 3/15/2004 1:33:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

angelgasior@... writes:

At this point I'm curious as to the reason was for the initial question. Are

you concerned that a classroom is too large or underserved based on the kids'

needs?

-- Jill

I asked the question because the only placement they are offering us for

has no maximum number of students permitted. I am worried about the

possibility of too much noise and no assistance for her because she is extremely

capable compared to the other children with multiple disabilities. I believe

this is an inappropriate placement because there are no speech role models for

(other than the teacher). I also don't think the pace of the class would

be challenging enough to keep her interest, which makes me worry about

behavior issues. She is going to be 3. Her teacher from Infant and Toddlers and

her

therapist at Hopkins feels she needs to be mainstreamed. Unfortunately, my

district doesn't offer a mainstream program for 3 year olds. I am at a real

loss for finding an appropriate program.

Angel in land

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In a message dated 3/16/2004 9:17:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,

angelgasior@... writes:

I'm pretty sure our area is the same. I am looking into the private option

now, but our district absolutely refuses to help us out with an fm system

unless we go to the public program.

__________________

You can fight the local district on this if there is no public-school program

for your child. There may be a program for phsyically disabled little ones,

but nothing that meets your HOH child's needs. If they do not offer a program,

then they have to provide the FM for use in the private program that does

address your child's needs.

Our district absolutely refused to acknowledge that our son's

mild-to-moderate loss was educationally significant and refused to provide D/HH

based

services. They were wrong, but that did not stop them from insisting they were

right.

So, don't give in if you believe that you are asking for an FM in order to

provide a fair and appropriate education for your child. If the school can't

provide the appropriate services, they have to support the other program that

can. Stick to your guns and collect the paperwork to prove your case.

-- Jill

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Guest guest

In a message dated 3/16/2004 9:17:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,

angelgasior@... writes:

I'm pretty sure our area is the same. I am looking into the private option

now, but our district absolutely refuses to help us out with an fm system

unless we go to the public program.

__________________

You can fight the local district on this if there is no public-school program

for your child. There may be a program for phsyically disabled little ones,

but nothing that meets your HOH child's needs. If they do not offer a program,

then they have to provide the FM for use in the private program that does

address your child's needs.

Our district absolutely refused to acknowledge that our son's

mild-to-moderate loss was educationally significant and refused to provide D/HH

based

services. They were wrong, but that did not stop them from insisting they were

right.

So, don't give in if you believe that you are asking for an FM in order to

provide a fair and appropriate education for your child. If the school can't

provide the appropriate services, they have to support the other program that

can. Stick to your guns and collect the paperwork to prove your case.

-- Jill

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Guest guest

In a message dated 3/16/2004 9:17:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,

angelgasior@... writes:

I'm pretty sure our area is the same. I am looking into the private option

now, but our district absolutely refuses to help us out with an fm system

unless we go to the public program.

__________________

You can fight the local district on this if there is no public-school program

for your child. There may be a program for phsyically disabled little ones,

but nothing that meets your HOH child's needs. If they do not offer a program,

then they have to provide the FM for use in the private program that does

address your child's needs.

Our district absolutely refused to acknowledge that our son's

mild-to-moderate loss was educationally significant and refused to provide D/HH

based

services. They were wrong, but that did not stop them from insisting they were

right.

So, don't give in if you believe that you are asking for an FM in order to

provide a fair and appropriate education for your child. If the school can't

provide the appropriate services, they have to support the other program that

can. Stick to your guns and collect the paperwork to prove your case.

-- Jill

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Guest guest

In a message dated 3/16/2004 11:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

dfisher57@... writes:

Do you mean to tell me that If they don't have a D/HH program at the school

they want to send my children, I can tell them it's not appropriate?

Donna Fisher

________________________

Very simply -- yes!

If there is not an appropriate program at your school, and they do not plan

to hire ALL the professionals your kids need, then they cannot legally force

them to attend the local school, (unless they convince you to agree to it).

-- Jill

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In a message dated 3/16/2004 11:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

dfisher57@... writes:

Do you mean to tell me that If they don't have a D/HH program at the school

they want to send my children, I can tell them it's not appropriate?

Donna Fisher

________________________

Very simply -- yes!

If there is not an appropriate program at your school, and they do not plan

to hire ALL the professionals your kids need, then they cannot legally force

them to attend the local school, (unless they convince you to agree to it).

-- Jill

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Guest guest

In a message dated 3/16/2004 11:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

dfisher57@... writes:

Do you mean to tell me that If they don't have a D/HH program at the school

they want to send my children, I can tell them it's not appropriate?

Donna Fisher

________________________

Very simply -- yes!

If there is not an appropriate program at your school, and they do not plan

to hire ALL the professionals your kids need, then they cannot legally force

them to attend the local school, (unless they convince you to agree to it).

-- Jill

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Guest guest

>> " ...but our district absolutely refuses to help us out with an fm system

>>unless we go to the public program. "

What does this mean? Are they using an FM as a bargining tool, or are they

saying that your child does not need an FM where they are, but they would if

s/he goes to a public program? I see a few ways you could spin this

situation in your favor, depending on what you wanted to do.

Colin

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I wanted to add that the schools are required to offer a continuum of

placement options BY LAW. They cannot just offer a classroom for language

disabled or physically disabled children, and tell you that is where your

child will go. I would ask what other placements they have set up for a

child with hearing loss - if they say none, maybe then tell them of the

other options you have found that are more appropriate.

Colin

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Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as

$29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

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Colin wrote:

I wanted to add that the schools are required to offer a continuum of

placement options BY LAW. They cannot just offer a classroom for language

disabled or physically disabled children, and tell you that is where your

child will go. I would ask what other placements they have set up for a

child with hearing loss - if they say none, maybe then tell them of the

other options you have found that are more appropriate.

Colin

Colin,

What do you mean by a continuum of placement options? I am trying to fight to

keep my children at a school with a D/HH program. Do you mean to tell me that

If they don't have a D/HH program at the school they want to send my children, I

can tell them it's not appropriate?

Donna Fisher

_________________________________________________________________

Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as

$29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

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Colin wrote:

I wanted to add that the schools are required to offer a continuum of

placement options BY LAW. They cannot just offer a classroom for language

disabled or physically disabled children, and tell you that is where your

child will go. I would ask what other placements they have set up for a

child with hearing loss - if they say none, maybe then tell them of the

other options you have found that are more appropriate.

Colin

Colin,

What do you mean by a continuum of placement options? I am trying to fight to

keep my children at a school with a D/HH program. Do you mean to tell me that

If they don't have a D/HH program at the school they want to send my children, I

can tell them it's not appropriate?

Donna Fisher

_________________________________________________________________

Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as

$29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

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Guest guest

Colin wrote:

I wanted to add that the schools are required to offer a continuum of

placement options BY LAW. They cannot just offer a classroom for language

disabled or physically disabled children, and tell you that is where your

child will go. I would ask what other placements they have set up for a

child with hearing loss - if they say none, maybe then tell them of the

other options you have found that are more appropriate.

Colin

Colin,

What do you mean by a continuum of placement options? I am trying to fight to

keep my children at a school with a D/HH program. Do you mean to tell me that

If they don't have a D/HH program at the school they want to send my children, I

can tell them it's not appropriate?

Donna Fisher

_________________________________________________________________

Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as

$29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

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If his IEP specifies that he needs a specialized deaf/hoh program and they

have none, then they must find/make one to place him in...the reality of

making this happen though is alot harder than the legality of it

Re: class size report

> In a message dated 3/16/2004 11:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> dfisher57@... writes:

> Do you mean to tell me that If they don't have a D/HH program at the

school

> they want to send my children, I can tell them it's not appropriate?

> Donna Fisher

> ________________________

>

> Very simply -- yes!

>

> If there is not an appropriate program at your school, and they do not

plan

> to hire ALL the professionals your kids need, then they cannot legally

force

> them to attend the local school, (unless they convince you to agree to

it).

>

> -- Jill

>

>

>

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Guest guest

If his IEP specifies that he needs a specialized deaf/hoh program and they

have none, then they must find/make one to place him in...the reality of

making this happen though is alot harder than the legality of it

Re: class size report

> In a message dated 3/16/2004 11:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> dfisher57@... writes:

> Do you mean to tell me that If they don't have a D/HH program at the

school

> they want to send my children, I can tell them it's not appropriate?

> Donna Fisher

> ________________________

>

> Very simply -- yes!

>

> If there is not an appropriate program at your school, and they do not

plan

> to hire ALL the professionals your kids need, then they cannot legally

force

> them to attend the local school, (unless they convince you to agree to

it).

>

> -- Jill

>

>

>

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Guest guest

If his IEP specifies that he needs a specialized deaf/hoh program and they

have none, then they must find/make one to place him in...the reality of

making this happen though is alot harder than the legality of it

Re: class size report

> In a message dated 3/16/2004 11:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> dfisher57@... writes:

> Do you mean to tell me that If they don't have a D/HH program at the

school

> they want to send my children, I can tell them it's not appropriate?

> Donna Fisher

> ________________________

>

> Very simply -- yes!

>

> If there is not an appropriate program at your school, and they do not

plan

> to hire ALL the professionals your kids need, then they cannot legally

force

> them to attend the local school, (unless they convince you to agree to

it).

>

> -- Jill

>

>

>

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Donna-

If a placement is inappropriate, what difference does it make? Why move your

kids from a D/HH program to a mainstream placement? What is the evidence a

move is MORE appropriate? Will they still get equal social interaction to

what they get now? Will they be able to communicate with their peers without

aids? Will they have equivilant access to the ciricuulum? Are there

EDUCATIONAL interpreters that can relay all the information in the class (if

they sign)? etc etc

I believe it comes down to the evidence that supports a decision (and should

be!). The school will have theirs, and you will have yours.

Colin

_________________________________________________________________

Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®

Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Donna-

If a placement is inappropriate, what difference does it make? Why move your

kids from a D/HH program to a mainstream placement? What is the evidence a

move is MORE appropriate? Will they still get equal social interaction to

what they get now? Will they be able to communicate with their peers without

aids? Will they have equivilant access to the ciricuulum? Are there

EDUCATIONAL interpreters that can relay all the information in the class (if

they sign)? etc etc

I believe it comes down to the evidence that supports a decision (and should

be!). The school will have theirs, and you will have yours.

Colin

_________________________________________________________________

Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®

Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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In a message dated 3/16/2004 6:54:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

babydewe2@... writes:

Arggggg.....Five years ago I was teaching at a Catholic school in Illinois.

We had students there that were receiving remediation and speech services, and

these were being provided through the local public school. ... I am not sure

if the same things are happening today, but I believe that they are. ...

Debbie

It is. It happens that way here in New York. However, the ironic twist to

receiving those services at a private school is that you have to go through the

evaluations and whole IEP process with the local district. The needed services

have to be included in the child's IEP, which is determined by the usual

process we've all gone through. -- Jill

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In a message dated 3/16/2004 6:54:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

babydewe2@... writes:

Arggggg.....Five years ago I was teaching at a Catholic school in Illinois.

We had students there that were receiving remediation and speech services, and

these were being provided through the local public school. ... I am not sure

if the same things are happening today, but I believe that they are. ...

Debbie

It is. It happens that way here in New York. However, the ironic twist to

receiving those services at a private school is that you have to go through the

evaluations and whole IEP process with the local district. The needed services

have to be included in the child's IEP, which is determined by the usual

process we've all gone through. -- Jill

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