History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

[Guest guest]

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen very

few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do not see

where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would want to

employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would mean their

ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an overhead cutting

ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of something more

serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you take all things

into account the money you may save does not justify the harm you would put your

company in if you were to be sued. This is my personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas. That

is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes use. They

are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport personnel?

I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would be more problem

than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

The picture is clear to all of us I bet 95% or better have seen this picture up

front. I can understand your point but the exact item you mentioned is not

REQUIRED and I have not had on anambulance with me inseveral years(we called

them MAST back then).

Dont underestimate the knowledge of a " transfer medic " I know plenty of " 911

Medics " that are just as questionable it is the individual not the job that

makes someone good or not. I mean are people that work for a srefvice that does

both half-assed medics?

so (in your words) PICTURE THIS...

38 y/o male now in his 92 hr working (because he has to work extra at the 911

only service that does not pay well) recieving the divorce papers from his

wife(cause she and the kids never see him). ,,, want him transporting Your

grandmother???

Call me what you want I dont care I am a paramedic I work for a service that

does both 911 and transfers, I work and draw a decent paycheck. I get to see my

family. Again call me what you want but personal prioities are still important

A darn good half-assed paramedic

Terrell

Mike wrote:

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

The picture is clear to all of us I bet 95% or better have seen this picture up

front. I can understand your point but the exact item you mentioned is not

REQUIRED and I have not had on anambulance with me inseveral years(we called

them MAST back then).

Dont underestimate the knowledge of a " transfer medic " I know plenty of " 911

Medics " that are just as questionable it is the individual not the job that

makes someone good or not. I mean are people that work for a srefvice that does

both half-assed medics?

so (in your words) PICTURE THIS...

38 y/o male now in his 92 hr working (because he has to work extra at the 911

only service that does not pay well) recieving the divorce papers from his

wife(cause she and the kids never see him). ,,, want him transporting Your

grandmother???

Call me what you want I dont care I am a paramedic I work for a service that

does both 911 and transfers, I work and draw a decent paycheck. I get to see my

family. Again call me what you want but personal prioities are still important

A darn good half-assed paramedic

Terrell

Mike wrote:

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

The picture is clear to all of us I bet 95% or better have seen this picture up

front. I can understand your point but the exact item you mentioned is not

REQUIRED and I have not had on anambulance with me inseveral years(we called

them MAST back then).

Dont underestimate the knowledge of a " transfer medic " I know plenty of " 911

Medics " that are just as questionable it is the individual not the job that

makes someone good or not. I mean are people that work for a srefvice that does

both half-assed medics?

so (in your words) PICTURE THIS...

38 y/o male now in his 92 hr working (because he has to work extra at the 911

only service that does not pay well) recieving the divorce papers from his

wife(cause she and the kids never see him). ,,, want him transporting Your

grandmother???

Call me what you want I dont care I am a paramedic I work for a service that

does both 911 and transfers, I work and draw a decent paycheck. I get to see my

family. Again call me what you want but personal prioities are still important

A darn good half-assed paramedic

Terrell

Mike wrote:

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

Please. Is this your serious argument? Did you even read my other posts on

the subject?

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Terrell

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:14 PM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

The picture is clear to all of us I bet 95% or better have seen this picture

up front. I can understand your point but the exact item you mentioned is

not REQUIRED and I have not had on anambulance with me inseveral years(we

called them MAST back then).

Dont underestimate the knowledge of a " transfer medic " I know plenty of " 911

Medics " that are just as questionable it is the individual not the job that

makes someone good or not. I mean are people that work for a srefvice that

does both half-assed medics?

so (in your words) PICTURE THIS...

38 y/o male now in his 92 hr working (because he has to work extra at the

911 only service that does not pay well) recieving the divorce papers from

his wife(cause she and the kids never see him). ,,, want him transporting

Your grandmother???

Call me what you want I dont care I am a paramedic I work for a service that

does both 911 and transfers, I work and draw a decent paycheck. I get to

see my family. Again call me what you want but personal prioities are still

important

A darn good half-assed paramedic

Terrell

Mike wrote:

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

Please. Is this your serious argument? Did you even read my other posts on

the subject?

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Terrell

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:14 PM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

The picture is clear to all of us I bet 95% or better have seen this picture

up front. I can understand your point but the exact item you mentioned is

not REQUIRED and I have not had on anambulance with me inseveral years(we

called them MAST back then).

Dont underestimate the knowledge of a " transfer medic " I know plenty of " 911

Medics " that are just as questionable it is the individual not the job that

makes someone good or not. I mean are people that work for a srefvice that

does both half-assed medics?

so (in your words) PICTURE THIS...

38 y/o male now in his 92 hr working (because he has to work extra at the

911 only service that does not pay well) recieving the divorce papers from

his wife(cause she and the kids never see him). ,,, want him transporting

Your grandmother???

Call me what you want I dont care I am a paramedic I work for a service that

does both 911 and transfers, I work and draw a decent paycheck. I get to

see my family. Again call me what you want but personal prioities are still

important

A darn good half-assed paramedic

Terrell

Mike wrote:

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

[Guest guest]

Please. Is this your serious argument? Did you even read my other posts on

the subject?

Mike

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From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Terrell

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:14 PM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

The picture is clear to all of us I bet 95% or better have seen this picture

up front. I can understand your point but the exact item you mentioned is

not REQUIRED and I have not had on anambulance with me inseveral years(we

called them MAST back then).

Dont underestimate the knowledge of a " transfer medic " I know plenty of " 911

Medics " that are just as questionable it is the individual not the job that

makes someone good or not. I mean are people that work for a srefvice that

does both half-assed medics?

so (in your words) PICTURE THIS...

38 y/o male now in his 92 hr working (because he has to work extra at the

911 only service that does not pay well) recieving the divorce papers from

his wife(cause she and the kids never see him). ,,, want him transporting

Your grandmother???

Call me what you want I dont care I am a paramedic I work for a service that

does both 911 and transfers, I work and draw a decent paycheck. I get to

see my family. Again call me what you want but personal prioities are still

important

A darn good half-assed paramedic

Terrell

Mike wrote:

Picture this... 76 y.o. female hemodialysis patient with no complaints

requires transport to her dialysis appointment (and back) three times a

week. She is primarily bedridden (or, at least cannot be safely transported

in a wheelchair). She is alert and oriented and probably a decent

conversationalist. Two EMT's wheel in a stretcher, move her over, put her

in the truck and transport her to the renal clinic without incident. Three

or four hours later, they return and do the inverse.

Now, where is the need for the specific training that EMT's received for

this call? How is this call prehospital?

My views are that things obviously need to change on a national level.

First, if EMT's are to continue doing these calls, they must be trained to

deal with the chronically ill and infirm (most programs lack this aspect).

Second, equipment needs must change (how many nursing home patients are

going to get the PASG applied?). This would lessen overhead which would be

a benefit for the owners, providers and payors. Alternatively, if it is

decided that EMT's are not to be relegated to non-emergent transfers, then I

think that CNA's would be perfect for it. CNA's are the chosen provider to

ride along with the patient when full attention cannot be paid to the

patient during a waiting period. Why can't they sit with them for a ride?

They can certainly call EMS if there is an issue, and now, the responding

unit will be ready to respond instead of delivering other patients to

doctor's appointments.

EMT's need to concentrate on emergency medicine. There will always be a

need. And, I feel that the profession is suffering from providers not

practicing skills often enough in the 9-1-1 arena. Can you imagine the

skill level on an EMT who only does non-emergent transports for a few years?

EMS is not a taxi service. We do happen to provide transportation to

emergency facilities, but more importantly, we are ready to provide care and

treatemnt for the acutely ill and injured.

Mike

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From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:24 AM

To:

Subject: RE: History of EMS (WAS: Re: Re: MANDATORY READING)

Mike;

That is a tricky question for a few reasons.

I am not sure what others see as non-emergent transports but I have seen

very few times where a team of more qualified personnel is not needed. I do

not see where a CPR certified driver and a CNA would be personnel I would

want to employ. I mean no offense but their skills are limited which would

mean their ability for me to utilize them is limited. There may be an

overhead cutting ability but you have to weigh that with the possibility of

something more serious going wrong on your non-emergent transport. When you

take all things into account the money you may save does not justify the

harm you would put your company in if you were to be sued. This is my

personal opinion.

I believe something like this already is available in areas around Texas.

That is why you see the big bus type transport vehicles the nursing homes

use. They are allowed to transport their patients like this already.

One other thought how much would you pay these non-emergent transport

personnel? I believe you would risk internal caos and turn over rates would

be more problem than you would want.

Again personal opinion.

Mike wrote:

Danny,

A serious question for you as an owner of a medical response oriented

business... If you could lower your overhead by putting non-equipped

ambulances on the road, staffed with CPR-certifed drivers and a CNA, would

your company prosper more in regards to the non-emergent transports? Think

" chair car " with a stretcher or something of the like.

Additionally, I would not suggest removing the BLS or ALS units from your

service. I would only recommend using them more appropriately.

Mike

_____

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

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[Guest guest]

" Mike " <Etlae@s...> wrote:

>

> Please. Is this your serious argument? Did you even read my other

posts on

> the subject?

I'm thinking he didn't. Neither did Henry. He couldn't have missed

the entire point of the discussion any more fully if he had planned

it. Funny how these discussions always degenerate not because of the

content of the original point, but because somebody comes along two

days later, doesn't read the previous posts, and goes off on a totally

irrelevant tangent.

No matter how profound it may have sounded, it had nothing to do with

the topic at hand.

Rob