Re: Resection of vascular SU ? (m/c ment)

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry for your losses---I wish you easiest possible journey through

the grief process (which I understand well myself---I had a very late-term loss

which may or may not have been related to my huge, wide septum--removed on

11-15---which was also misdiagnosed both during and after my pregnancy)....I am

not sure about the vascularity issue---I was never told that mine was vascular

or not vascular---but I know my bleeding was minimal during/after surgery.

I concur with the others who have suggested 2nd and 3rd opinions on everything

.. I have even gotten some 4th opinions. I have had so much disagreement on

the shape of my uterus, the cause of my son's death (still a bit of a mystery,we

just have " theories " ) and what to do for the future. The fact that these

disagreements can exist is very disturbing to me, and I find it horrifying that

doctors say " just try again " when they are not sure what is happening, and a

potential child's life (and parent's hearts) are at stake.....

I think that the more information you get, you are better armed for the

future, can be a better advocate for yourself and your pregnancies/babies----and

you can ultimately find some consensus among maybe two docs---and one of them

might be so thorough and cautious (and hopefully, caring) that you can feel good

about trusting them. I also have decided to have a regular OB (new one),

perinatologist (same from the pregnancy I lost--- I really like her, and trust

that she did her best) and another perinatologist (a specialist at Yale who

knows

about blood disorders, b/c I may have a clotting issue) folllow me should I

become pregnant again. It has helped me to know that I have " left no stone

unturned " ---for the sake of my son who died, for myself (it helps with the grief

and guilt that so many of us feel)---and for the future.

Good luck and take very, very good care of yourself. You need and deserve it

ever so much---

, 36

SU with a " dip "

resected 11-15-04

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry for your losses---I wish you easiest possible journey through

the grief process (which I understand well myself---I had a very late-term loss

which may or may not have been related to my huge, wide septum--removed on

11-15---which was also misdiagnosed both during and after my pregnancy)....I am

not sure about the vascularity issue---I was never told that mine was vascular

or not vascular---but I know my bleeding was minimal during/after surgery.

I concur with the others who have suggested 2nd and 3rd opinions on everything

.. I have even gotten some 4th opinions. I have had so much disagreement on

the shape of my uterus, the cause of my son's death (still a bit of a mystery,we

just have " theories " ) and what to do for the future. The fact that these

disagreements can exist is very disturbing to me, and I find it horrifying that

doctors say " just try again " when they are not sure what is happening, and a

potential child's life (and parent's hearts) are at stake.....

I think that the more information you get, you are better armed for the

future, can be a better advocate for yourself and your pregnancies/babies----and

you can ultimately find some consensus among maybe two docs---and one of them

might be so thorough and cautious (and hopefully, caring) that you can feel good

about trusting them. I also have decided to have a regular OB (new one),

perinatologist (same from the pregnancy I lost--- I really like her, and trust

that she did her best) and another perinatologist (a specialist at Yale who

knows

about blood disorders, b/c I may have a clotting issue) folllow me should I

become pregnant again. It has helped me to know that I have " left no stone

unturned " ---for the sake of my son who died, for myself (it helps with the grief

and guilt that so many of us feel)---and for the future.

Good luck and take very, very good care of yourself. You need and deserve it

ever so much---

, 36

SU with a " dip "

resected 11-15-04

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry for your losses---I wish you easiest possible journey through

the grief process (which I understand well myself---I had a very late-term loss

which may or may not have been related to my huge, wide septum--removed on

11-15---which was also misdiagnosed both during and after my pregnancy)....I am

not sure about the vascularity issue---I was never told that mine was vascular

or not vascular---but I know my bleeding was minimal during/after surgery.

I concur with the others who have suggested 2nd and 3rd opinions on everything

.. I have even gotten some 4th opinions. I have had so much disagreement on

the shape of my uterus, the cause of my son's death (still a bit of a mystery,we

just have " theories " ) and what to do for the future. The fact that these

disagreements can exist is very disturbing to me, and I find it horrifying that

doctors say " just try again " when they are not sure what is happening, and a

potential child's life (and parent's hearts) are at stake.....

I think that the more information you get, you are better armed for the

future, can be a better advocate for yourself and your pregnancies/babies----and

you can ultimately find some consensus among maybe two docs---and one of them

might be so thorough and cautious (and hopefully, caring) that you can feel good

about trusting them. I also have decided to have a regular OB (new one),

perinatologist (same from the pregnancy I lost--- I really like her, and trust

that she did her best) and another perinatologist (a specialist at Yale who

knows

about blood disorders, b/c I may have a clotting issue) folllow me should I

become pregnant again. It has helped me to know that I have " left no stone

unturned " ---for the sake of my son who died, for myself (it helps with the grief

and guilt that so many of us feel)---and for the future.

Good luck and take very, very good care of yourself. You need and deserve it

ever so much---

, 36

SU with a " dip "

resected 11-15-04

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I am so, so sorry for your losses. Your situation is pretty similar

to my own. I tried for about 2 1/2 years to get pregnant and finally

did get pregnant in November of 2003. I started spotting about 5

weeks into the pregnancy and it was discovered that I had a

bicornuate uterus. I was monitored closesly and everything seemed

okay, except for the occassional bleeding and spotting. My baby was

also implanted right at the implant and it actually took the doctors

3 u/s, until was 7weeks along, to find the fetal pole because it was

so high. I was in for an ultrasound every week and had my last

ultrasound at 14 weeks. I was doing so well at that visit that my

doctor didn't schedule me for another u/s until week 17. So, I went

in that day hoping to find the sex of the baby, only to find that the

baby had died.

After the D & E, I demanded an MRI to find if I had a SU or a BU. I

had the MRI 2 weeks after the D & E and the results were, " slightly

arcuate uterus with a sub-septum " . The doctor told me that since my

septum was vascular, that it had a good endometrial lining and that I

should just ttc again since a pregnancy could hypothetically survive

even if it implanted on the septum. This didn't seem right to me, so

I picked up my films from radiology and went to get a second

opinion. The second doctor (I paid out of pocket to meet with her)

didn't feel I should ttc unless I was sure it was BU or SU and that I

should have more testing. I called my regular ob/gyn and told her I

wanted more testing to tell me whether I was SU or BU before ttc

again. She agreed (said she had been reviewing my case and didn't

feel totally confident with the readiologist's report) and referred

me to an RE that was in my network, so I didn't have to pay out of

pocket.

The RE that I saw told me that he felt confident that the films

showed a septum and that having it removed would be a good idea. I

had hysteroscopic surgery (he didn't see a fundal dip on the films,

so didn't feel he needed to do a laporoscopy with the hyst) on July

29, 2004 and it went well. The doctor did have to stop the surgery

because I started bleeding towards the end of the surgery, but he

said I only have about 7 mm of the septum left at the right side of

the fundus, so I'm happy with the results.

My RE did say that the septum was very wide and not very maleable, so

we're pretty sure that the septum did cause my loss. We'll never

know for sure because the doctor who did the D & E (I call him evil-

devil-man, but that's another story, lol) didn't test the baby for

any genetic problems.

I got pregnant in November, using Clomid, but the embryo didn't

implant and I had a chemical pregnancy. I'm trying again, and I'm

coming up on the one year anniversary of the loss.

If I can give you any advice, it would be to seek a second, or even a

3rd opinion (my second opinion didn't recommend surgery, but my 3rd

opinion did). This is an amazingly overwhelming time. Not only are

you dealing with grief, but you're having to push to get a diagnosis

you feel confident with. I am so sorry for all of this. There are

some great resources online for m/c support, if you're interested.

Also, there is a book that really helped me with my grief that I can

recommend, if you're interested. I hope that this information

helped, and I'm sorry to be so long winded, but your post struck a

chord and I wanted to share as much information as possible. I hope

that you get a desirable outcome from your doctors.

Jasmine, 27

SU, resected 7/29/04

1 m/c, 17wks, 2/12/04

1 m/c, 4w4d, 11/7/04

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheryl-

I have a story quite similar to yours, unfortunatly! I had a

very wide septum that extended almost all the way down to my cervix.

I was pregnant and it was then that it was discovered. I had a lot of

cramping and they found the septum on U/S. The placenta in my case

was also partially attached to the septum. Despite being followed

very closely it was discovered I had a fetal demise at 23 weeks. I

was immediatly told by both my perinate and ob that I should have it

removed. We also will never know for certain that it was the septum (

we actually bypassed genetic testing d/t it was not covered by

insurance so they just did an external exam for abnormalities) but it

was highly likely according to everyone I saw that it was a result of

the septum. It is interesting that they are talking about the

vascularity of your septum. How do they know this? MRI? I actually

nevery had an MRI to diagnose my SU. Although one RE recommended it I

actually went with the other RE who diagnosed with saline U/S and just

said he would remove it with lap/hyst. I have one of the wider

septums he has seen but he was very confident he could remove it

safely. Vascularity was never discussed. Anyway I believe when they

operate there are ways to control bleeding when they are using the

resectoscope. It was only during a follow up office hysteroscopy that

he used a scissors and I had problems with bleeding when I got home

but it stopped on its own. According to the RE he said it is different

using the scissors you can have more bleeding? Anyways I don't know

if this helps but I also think you should have another opinion. Wider

septums are a more complicated surgery and you definitly want someone

who is confident they can remove it or at least have a couple of

opinions if they think they cannot remove it. Research for a good RE.

WOW I didn't mean to be so long.

I am so sorry for your loss. It IS true it will get better as

time goes I got sick of hearing it but was happy to find it is true.

Good luck and I hope you find peace in the new year.

, 30

SU

>

> Happy New Year Ladies!

> I have heard a few of you mention that you had a resection of a

> vascular / muscular or wide septum...I am looking for as much

> information about this as possible!

> History: I had a m/c at 7 wks back in March 2004 - this was my first

> pregnancy and the doc noticed the uterine anomaly on ultrasound. I

> had an MRI and was referred to an RE to determine whether it was

> BU/SU. They scheduled a resection for me right away, but then

> consulted with some other 'experts' and decided to do an HSG. I was

> diagnosed as sub-septate, with a wide, vascular septum that only

> extends partway down. The RE did not recommend surgery and said I

> should just try again. So I did - the baby implanted at the fundus

> (relatively close to, but not, on the septum). Everything was fine

> until 17.5 wks - I started bleeding/cramping, had an ultrasound and

> found out the baby had passed away about a week prior.

> This all happened about 4 weeks ago, and now I'm just trying to

> figure out what to do next. I still have not heard anything back as

> far as test results on the baby, but it seems most likely that the

> septum was the problem. My OB is going to refer me back to the RE -

> but I really scared that they don't think they can operate on my

> septum. I seem to remember the RE saying that it would bleed a lot

> and probably make things worse...Does any one have any thoughts on

> this?? Thanks!

>

> Cheryl

> 30

> SU

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheryl-

I have a story quite similar to yours, unfortunatly! I had a

very wide septum that extended almost all the way down to my cervix.

I was pregnant and it was then that it was discovered. I had a lot of

cramping and they found the septum on U/S. The placenta in my case

was also partially attached to the septum. Despite being followed

very closely it was discovered I had a fetal demise at 23 weeks. I

was immediatly told by both my perinate and ob that I should have it

removed. We also will never know for certain that it was the septum (

we actually bypassed genetic testing d/t it was not covered by

insurance so they just did an external exam for abnormalities) but it

was highly likely according to everyone I saw that it was a result of

the septum. It is interesting that they are talking about the

vascularity of your septum. How do they know this? MRI? I actually

nevery had an MRI to diagnose my SU. Although one RE recommended it I

actually went with the other RE who diagnosed with saline U/S and just

said he would remove it with lap/hyst. I have one of the wider

septums he has seen but he was very confident he could remove it

safely. Vascularity was never discussed. Anyway I believe when they

operate there are ways to control bleeding when they are using the

resectoscope. It was only during a follow up office hysteroscopy that

he used a scissors and I had problems with bleeding when I got home

but it stopped on its own. According to the RE he said it is different

using the scissors you can have more bleeding? Anyways I don't know

if this helps but I also think you should have another opinion. Wider

septums are a more complicated surgery and you definitly want someone

who is confident they can remove it or at least have a couple of

opinions if they think they cannot remove it. Research for a good RE.

WOW I didn't mean to be so long.

I am so sorry for your loss. It IS true it will get better as

time goes I got sick of hearing it but was happy to find it is true.

Good luck and I hope you find peace in the new year.

, 30

SU

>

> Happy New Year Ladies!

> I have heard a few of you mention that you had a resection of a

> vascular / muscular or wide septum...I am looking for as much

> information about this as possible!

> History: I had a m/c at 7 wks back in March 2004 - this was my first

> pregnancy and the doc noticed the uterine anomaly on ultrasound. I

> had an MRI and was referred to an RE to determine whether it was

> BU/SU. They scheduled a resection for me right away, but then

> consulted with some other 'experts' and decided to do an HSG. I was

> diagnosed as sub-septate, with a wide, vascular septum that only

> extends partway down. The RE did not recommend surgery and said I

> should just try again. So I did - the baby implanted at the fundus

> (relatively close to, but not, on the septum). Everything was fine

> until 17.5 wks - I started bleeding/cramping, had an ultrasound and

> found out the baby had passed away about a week prior.

> This all happened about 4 weeks ago, and now I'm just trying to

> figure out what to do next. I still have not heard anything back as

> far as test results on the baby, but it seems most likely that the

> septum was the problem. My OB is going to refer me back to the RE -

> but I really scared that they don't think they can operate on my

> septum. I seem to remember the RE saying that it would bleed a lot

> and probably make things worse...Does any one have any thoughts on

> this?? Thanks!

>

> Cheryl

> 30

> SU

[Guest guest]

Hi Cheryl-

I have a story quite similar to yours, unfortunatly! I had a

very wide septum that extended almost all the way down to my cervix.

I was pregnant and it was then that it was discovered. I had a lot of

cramping and they found the septum on U/S. The placenta in my case

was also partially attached to the septum. Despite being followed

very closely it was discovered I had a fetal demise at 23 weeks. I

was immediatly told by both my perinate and ob that I should have it

removed. We also will never know for certain that it was the septum (

we actually bypassed genetic testing d/t it was not covered by

insurance so they just did an external exam for abnormalities) but it

was highly likely according to everyone I saw that it was a result of

the septum. It is interesting that they are talking about the

vascularity of your septum. How do they know this? MRI? I actually

nevery had an MRI to diagnose my SU. Although one RE recommended it I

actually went with the other RE who diagnosed with saline U/S and just

said he would remove it with lap/hyst. I have one of the wider

septums he has seen but he was very confident he could remove it

safely. Vascularity was never discussed. Anyway I believe when they

operate there are ways to control bleeding when they are using the

resectoscope. It was only during a follow up office hysteroscopy that

he used a scissors and I had problems with bleeding when I got home

but it stopped on its own. According to the RE he said it is different

using the scissors you can have more bleeding? Anyways I don't know

if this helps but I also think you should have another opinion. Wider

septums are a more complicated surgery and you definitly want someone

who is confident they can remove it or at least have a couple of

opinions if they think they cannot remove it. Research for a good RE.

WOW I didn't mean to be so long.

I am so sorry for your loss. It IS true it will get better as

time goes I got sick of hearing it but was happy to find it is true.

Good luck and I hope you find peace in the new year.

, 30

SU

>

> Happy New Year Ladies!

> I have heard a few of you mention that you had a resection of a

> vascular / muscular or wide septum...I am looking for as much

> information about this as possible!

> History: I had a m/c at 7 wks back in March 2004 - this was my first

> pregnancy and the doc noticed the uterine anomaly on ultrasound. I

> had an MRI and was referred to an RE to determine whether it was

> BU/SU. They scheduled a resection for me right away, but then

> consulted with some other 'experts' and decided to do an HSG. I was

> diagnosed as sub-septate, with a wide, vascular septum that only

> extends partway down. The RE did not recommend surgery and said I

> should just try again. So I did - the baby implanted at the fundus

> (relatively close to, but not, on the septum). Everything was fine

> until 17.5 wks - I started bleeding/cramping, had an ultrasound and

> found out the baby had passed away about a week prior.

> This all happened about 4 weeks ago, and now I'm just trying to

> figure out what to do next. I still have not heard anything back as

> far as test results on the baby, but it seems most likely that the

> septum was the problem. My OB is going to refer me back to the RE -

> but I really scared that they don't think they can operate on my

> septum. I seem to remember the RE saying that it would bleed a lot

> and probably make things worse...Does any one have any thoughts on

> this?? Thanks!

>

> Cheryl

> 30

> SU

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I am very sorry for your losses. What a rough year you've had.

I was also told that I have a muscular septum. I am meeting with an

RE, who is supposed to be a surgical specialist, tomorrow morning.

I will post more information after I meet with him.

Here's my story; I'll try to be brief.

m/c 4/04 -- 6 1/2 wks

m/c 8/04 -- 9 wks

I had an appointment with my OB in September. She ordered a battery

of blood tests based on a family history of auto-immune disorders.

All the results were normal. She sent me for a sonohysterogram.

The SHG showed endometrial polyps, so I had a D & C/hysteroscopy in

October. During the hysteroscopy, the OB found evidence of an MA,

so I was sent for an MRI. The films showed a partial septum which,

according to my OB, appears to be muscular.

The OB believes the polyps caused the m/cs but I haven't been able

to find any similar stories (anyone?). The OB and the other doctors

that reviewed the MRI films had varying opinions about the SU; some

thought it wouldn't cause problems and shouldn't be touched because

it will cause scar tissue and some thought it needed to be removed.

I hope the doctor is able to answer all my questions. I'd be

interested in hearing about any information you find too.

Vicki

SU

30