Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Hi Terri- I also in live in Mass and have experienced a similar situation. My son is also at the top his class academically (5th grade) and has age appropriate speech and language. They have tried many times over the years to put him on a 504 but I have fought them and taken a stand. There are 2 main arguments I use to defend my request. First, he is where he is because of the services he receives and the outside support we provide. Second, the difference between a 504 and IEP is specialized instruction Vs accommodations. I argue that modifying the curriculum so that he receives as much as possible visually and providing pre and post learning of new material/vocabulary in a quiet environment is specialized instruction and therefore qualifies him for an IEP. I am very glad that I have advocated as hard as I have because next year he will be in Middle school and I would hate for him not to have this in place. No matter what they tell you, I have learned from experience that 504 kids do not receive the same level of attention or commitment as IEP kids. The same rules do not apply and I have found a huge difference. Also, thought you might be interested to know that the state is working the fine tune the difference between the plans. In some towns all kids who are pulled out of class for instruction are automatically in IEPs, other towns have the kids on 504s for the same services. No wonder we are all confused! Good luck and follow your instincts. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Hi Terri- I also in live in Mass and have experienced a similar situation. My son is also at the top his class academically (5th grade) and has age appropriate speech and language. They have tried many times over the years to put him on a 504 but I have fought them and taken a stand. There are 2 main arguments I use to defend my request. First, he is where he is because of the services he receives and the outside support we provide. Second, the difference between a 504 and IEP is specialized instruction Vs accommodations. I argue that modifying the curriculum so that he receives as much as possible visually and providing pre and post learning of new material/vocabulary in a quiet environment is specialized instruction and therefore qualifies him for an IEP. I am very glad that I have advocated as hard as I have because next year he will be in Middle school and I would hate for him not to have this in place. No matter what they tell you, I have learned from experience that 504 kids do not receive the same level of attention or commitment as IEP kids. The same rules do not apply and I have found a huge difference. Also, thought you might be interested to know that the state is working the fine tune the difference between the plans. In some towns all kids who are pulled out of class for instruction are automatically in IEPs, other towns have the kids on 504s for the same services. No wonder we are all confused! Good luck and follow your instincts. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 >My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, This is a very good point, they show her behind in speech and language so how can she be expected to keep up accedemically if she is not completely understanding and expressing herself? This is a question you need to insist they answer. If she is doing well it is because of the support she is getting. If you take that away you are risking her falling behind. move to 504? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 >My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, This is a very good point, they show her behind in speech and language so how can she be expected to keep up accedemically if she is not completely understanding and expressing herself? This is a question you need to insist they answer. If she is doing well it is because of the support she is getting. If you take that away you are risking her falling behind. move to 504? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 >My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, This is a very good point, they show her behind in speech and language so how can she be expected to keep up accedemically if she is not completely understanding and expressing herself? This is a question you need to insist they answer. If she is doing well it is because of the support she is getting. If you take that away you are risking her falling behind. move to 504? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Terri et al, This is interesting to me as we are being encouraged to consider a 504 over an IEP for my daughter, now 2 1/2, as she transitions to our local school system. We are in Mass also. The reasoning from the Early Intervention office is, as Hadley is age appropriate in all areas, that reasonable accommodations can include regular appts with the school SLP (who does not have a background with HOH kids). Our therapist (a cert AVT) has seen more HOH kids on 504 plans in MA recently that include regular speech sessions (with her). One of her comments is that as our HOH kids are identified earlier, choose oral programs earlier, and have more time and technology to develop clear and complex language, the schools have trouble labeling them in the traditional manner. From my experience (in education, plus as the daughter of 2 public school administrators), you never want to get off an IEP if you really don't have to, but it seems that this is changing-- perhaps pretty quickly. If my post is confusing, it just represents how confused we are right now! In essence, I really don't care what they call her plan, just as long as she gets the services she needs. However, I'm concerned about future consequences and what potentially could happen if we wind up changing school systems later on (which is quite possible). Mostly, I'm troubled by the fact that members of the decision making team have no clue what to do with a HOH kid who is doing well. Don't they get that the reason she talks is that she's being receiving great services for 2 years?! For those of you who have posted on this subject from MA, I'd love to hear from you about what has worked and what evolves. Feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Kerry Mom to Hadley, 2 1/2, severe bilateral loss, Cx26, aided, AVT move to 504? Hello, My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print or other support for discussion and specials. Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the services she will be getting and don't understand how those all fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. Terri , Mother of Kathy, CII BTE Jan '02, mainstreamed since Kindergarten in CA, TX, and now MA. In 3rd Grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 Terri et al, This is interesting to me as we are being encouraged to consider a 504 over an IEP for my daughter, now 2 1/2, as she transitions to our local school system. We are in Mass also. The reasoning from the Early Intervention office is, as Hadley is age appropriate in all areas, that reasonable accommodations can include regular appts with the school SLP (who does not have a background with HOH kids). Our therapist (a cert AVT) has seen more HOH kids on 504 plans in MA recently that include regular speech sessions (with her). One of her comments is that as our HOH kids are identified earlier, choose oral programs earlier, and have more time and technology to develop clear and complex language, the schools have trouble labeling them in the traditional manner. From my experience (in education, plus as the daughter of 2 public school administrators), you never want to get off an IEP if you really don't have to, but it seems that this is changing-- perhaps pretty quickly. If my post is confusing, it just represents how confused we are right now! In essence, I really don't care what they call her plan, just as long as she gets the services she needs. However, I'm concerned about future consequences and what potentially could happen if we wind up changing school systems later on (which is quite possible). Mostly, I'm troubled by the fact that members of the decision making team have no clue what to do with a HOH kid who is doing well. Don't they get that the reason she talks is that she's being receiving great services for 2 years?! For those of you who have posted on this subject from MA, I'd love to hear from you about what has worked and what evolves. Feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Kerry Mom to Hadley, 2 1/2, severe bilateral loss, Cx26, aided, AVT move to 504? Hello, My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print or other support for discussion and specials. Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the services she will be getting and don't understand how those all fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. Terri , Mother of Kathy, CII BTE Jan '02, mainstreamed since Kindergarten in CA, TX, and now MA. In 3rd Grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 I hope that you have looked at Cprint in action before requesting it. We observed it at the college level and were appalled at how inaccurate the summaries were and how slow the typist was. With Cprint, they basically summarize what they hear and then type as rapidly as they can. The entire context and intent of the lessons were missed and the typist ended up way behind. They tried to force Cprint on us when we insisted on accommodations and luckily after our son balked at using it because it didn't work for him, we had his psychiatrist who has been a key person in ensuring that he receive appropriate services, document that he needed this in order to function and avoid depression, and we got CART instead which has been a godsend. If all else fails, get someone who can talk about the negative psychological impact of lack of services to document your child's needs. The psychiatrist has been fundamental to ensuring that he receive appropriate services. move to 504? > Hello, > > My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things > in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language > areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, > she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech > support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print > or other support for discussion and specials. > > Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 > thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? > > My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, > that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that > it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the > services she will be getting and don't understand how those all > fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. > > Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. > > Terri , Mother of Kathy, CII BTE Jan '02, mainstreamed > since Kindergarten in CA, TX, and now MA. In 3rd Grade. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 I hope that you have looked at Cprint in action before requesting it. We observed it at the college level and were appalled at how inaccurate the summaries were and how slow the typist was. With Cprint, they basically summarize what they hear and then type as rapidly as they can. The entire context and intent of the lessons were missed and the typist ended up way behind. They tried to force Cprint on us when we insisted on accommodations and luckily after our son balked at using it because it didn't work for him, we had his psychiatrist who has been a key person in ensuring that he receive appropriate services, document that he needed this in order to function and avoid depression, and we got CART instead which has been a godsend. If all else fails, get someone who can talk about the negative psychological impact of lack of services to document your child's needs. The psychiatrist has been fundamental to ensuring that he receive appropriate services. move to 504? > Hello, > > My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things > in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language > areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, > she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech > support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print > or other support for discussion and specials. > > Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 > thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? > > My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, > that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that > it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the > services she will be getting and don't understand how those all > fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. > > Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. > > Terri , Mother of Kathy, CII BTE Jan '02, mainstreamed > since Kindergarten in CA, TX, and now MA. In 3rd Grade. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2004 Report Share Posted February 29, 2004 I hope that you have looked at Cprint in action before requesting it. We observed it at the college level and were appalled at how inaccurate the summaries were and how slow the typist was. With Cprint, they basically summarize what they hear and then type as rapidly as they can. The entire context and intent of the lessons were missed and the typist ended up way behind. They tried to force Cprint on us when we insisted on accommodations and luckily after our son balked at using it because it didn't work for him, we had his psychiatrist who has been a key person in ensuring that he receive appropriate services, document that he needed this in order to function and avoid depression, and we got CART instead which has been a godsend. If all else fails, get someone who can talk about the negative psychological impact of lack of services to document your child's needs. The psychiatrist has been fundamental to ensuring that he receive appropriate services. move to 504? > Hello, > > My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things > in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language > areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, > she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech > support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print > or other support for discussion and specials. > > Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 > thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? > > My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, > that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that > it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the > services she will be getting and don't understand how those all > fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. > > Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. > > Terri , Mother of Kathy, CII BTE Jan '02, mainstreamed > since Kindergarten in CA, TX, and now MA. In 3rd Grade. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Terri, First off, I have a chart (MSWord format) showing the differences between IDEA and 504 plans and would gladly send it as an attachment off-list to anyone who would like it. I don't think attachments are permitted on-list. My son was moved from an IEP to a 504 in 6th grade because he also needed no remedial services of any kind. He receives services from a TOD 5-days a week for one period a day (about an hour), modifications for testing and note taking issues, as well as the FM system. There is nothing he could need as a HOH/deaf student that cannot be provided under 504. This coming year he should be getting a laptop to be able to note-take in high school -- he'll be a freshman. However, during his elementary years he was classfified under IDEA with an IEP. His services have not changed at all from one plan to the other. I fought the transfer from IDEA to 504 and it took 3 meetings with the CSE chairman for us to agree with it. And I mean personal, one-on-one meetings without any committee, just the CSE and the 504 administrator sitting for hours with us explaining every detail and how there would be no interruption in services and no denial of future needs. Since there was to be no change in his services and he did not need the SpecEd stuff, we agreed to the transfer. We put it in writing that we were not 100% comfortable with the transfer and if there was any problem we expected him to be transferred back to IDEA, as agreed to by the CSE Chair. There has been absolutely no problem and no reduction in services. There is no formal goal structure under 504, but there could be if you insisted it be part of the 504 plan. The 504 plan has more flexibility to it, which is both a plus and a minus. Speech/language services are issues directly related to a " physical disability " so that may be the reason for the school's desire to transfer classification. Our son is evaluated each spring using testing which is appropriate for evaluating his advancement. (Stamford Acheivement Tests and another one, whose name I've forgotten). There is a triennial (every 3 years) eval done as well, retesting IQ and all those other things that were done when he was classified in the first place. He has a speech eval done every year as well -- this was never an issue for him. I've been though this transfer ... and I fought it for a while with very good reasons. Make them prove to you that the change is needed and that your child will be better served under 504. The first time they suggested it, I flat-out refused to even discuss it. They dropped the subject. The next time it was brought up more forcefully and I said that I was not at all interested in the transfer. The district had dragged their feet to classifify my son, used any excuse to delay providing appropriate services and had avoided a lawsuit by only a few inches. I basically said: " Prove to me that you are not using this transfer of services to find another way to deny my son the services he needs. Prove that this is not just another version of forum shopping on the part of the district. " Ian could not and would not be able to maintian his progress without those services. It became their problem to convince me. I may be in the minority here, but I have not regretted the transfer to 504 because no services have changed, in fact they were expanded a bit without anyone blinking an eye. Nothing has changed except that I now call the 504 administrator instead of the CSE office when we need things addressed, and he is a very pleasant man. (Of course, there is a note someplace in my son's file warning people that I am " difficult " so perhaps that's why he's so nice.) And on one last conflicting note. From what I understand, Ian is the only student in the BOCES HIRS (Hearing Impaired Related Services) program whose services are provided under 504 instead of IDEA. I don't know the other student's circumstances or what other services they may recieve. But he is also the first 504 that our TOD has ever dealt with. He is also the first to be on High Honor Roll all through middle school. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hi Terri - my son Sam was moved to a 504 plan two years ago at the end of first grade. I was initially very skeptical but couldn't argue with the fact that he tested way above for everything, including speech and language. Sam's now in third grade - he's fully mainstreamed (Sam's profoundly deaf) - and continues to do well on his 504 plan. He has oversight by our wonderful SLP and occasional visits by a teacher of the deaf but has no other services - no out of the classroom speech, etc. I tried to argue that the reason he's doing so well is because of the services he receives but that wasn't considered a good enough reason to keep him on an IEP. So with trepidation, we moved him over and so far, it's worked well. Our school has been generous with equipment and if I have a concern (at one point about writing; another time regarding language understanding) they quickly tested him and made accommodations. We are in a good school system that's been very supportive which I realize isn't the norm.... That being said - the fact that your daughter still shows needs in speech and language would make me take issue with moving her at this point - isn't speech and language a service and not an accommodation? I'd argue on this point. Jill - I'd love for you to send me that spreadsheet - much appreciated! Thanks Barbara --- Terri wrote: My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print or other support for discussion and specials. Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the services she will be getting and don't understand how those all fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. --- end of quote --- ******************************* Barbara Mellert Manager, Social Science Computing Kiewit Computing Services Dartmouth College 13A Silsby Hall; HB 6121 Hanover NH 03755 Telephone: 603/646-2877 URL: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ssc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hi Terri - my son Sam was moved to a 504 plan two years ago at the end of first grade. I was initially very skeptical but couldn't argue with the fact that he tested way above for everything, including speech and language. Sam's now in third grade - he's fully mainstreamed (Sam's profoundly deaf) - and continues to do well on his 504 plan. He has oversight by our wonderful SLP and occasional visits by a teacher of the deaf but has no other services - no out of the classroom speech, etc. I tried to argue that the reason he's doing so well is because of the services he receives but that wasn't considered a good enough reason to keep him on an IEP. So with trepidation, we moved him over and so far, it's worked well. Our school has been generous with equipment and if I have a concern (at one point about writing; another time regarding language understanding) they quickly tested him and made accommodations. We are in a good school system that's been very supportive which I realize isn't the norm.... That being said - the fact that your daughter still shows needs in speech and language would make me take issue with moving her at this point - isn't speech and language a service and not an accommodation? I'd argue on this point. Jill - I'd love for you to send me that spreadsheet - much appreciated! Thanks Barbara --- Terri wrote: My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print or other support for discussion and specials. Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the services she will be getting and don't understand how those all fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. --- end of quote --- ******************************* Barbara Mellert Manager, Social Science Computing Kiewit Computing Services Dartmouth College 13A Silsby Hall; HB 6121 Hanover NH 03755 Telephone: 603/646-2877 URL: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ssc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hi Terri - my son Sam was moved to a 504 plan two years ago at the end of first grade. I was initially very skeptical but couldn't argue with the fact that he tested way above for everything, including speech and language. Sam's now in third grade - he's fully mainstreamed (Sam's profoundly deaf) - and continues to do well on his 504 plan. He has oversight by our wonderful SLP and occasional visits by a teacher of the deaf but has no other services - no out of the classroom speech, etc. I tried to argue that the reason he's doing so well is because of the services he receives but that wasn't considered a good enough reason to keep him on an IEP. So with trepidation, we moved him over and so far, it's worked well. Our school has been generous with equipment and if I have a concern (at one point about writing; another time regarding language understanding) they quickly tested him and made accommodations. We are in a good school system that's been very supportive which I realize isn't the norm.... That being said - the fact that your daughter still shows needs in speech and language would make me take issue with moving her at this point - isn't speech and language a service and not an accommodation? I'd argue on this point. Jill - I'd love for you to send me that spreadsheet - much appreciated! Thanks Barbara --- Terri wrote: My daughter just had a 3-year eval that showed her ahead of things in all academic areas though behind in many speech and language areas. The district has stated because she is ahead in academics, she MUST be on a 504. They intend on increasing her speech support, adding a teacher of the deaf, and I am insisting on C-print or other support for discussion and specials. Can any of you who have been through this clue me into this 504 thing? Should I be fighting it? Can I fight it? My gut reaction is that even though she is doing OK in school now, that is no reason to believe she will not have difficulty later, and that it is really hard to get back on to an IEP later. I also see all the services she will be getting and don't understand how those all fit into a 504 that is supposed to be primarily about accommodations. Please help! We have our next meeting on Friday 5 March. --- end of quote --- ******************************* Barbara Mellert Manager, Social Science Computing Kiewit Computing Services Dartmouth College 13A Silsby Hall; HB 6121 Hanover NH 03755 Telephone: 603/646-2877 URL: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ssc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 I have a chart (MSWord format) showing the differences between IDEA and 504 plans and would gladly send it as an attachment off-list to anyone who would like it. --------------------------------- Hi Jill Could you also send a copy of this chart to me -- off line. Thanks! My daughter is 2 1/2 and we are in MA. Our first IEP meeting will be coming up soon. My daughter was adopted at 12 months with a known hearing loss and has been aided since 14 months. She was just tested by EI and scored above age level in cognitive, fine and gross motor and has age appropriate receptive language but her expressive language is a bit behind. Our school system is luckily known for being rather easy to work with. The special ed director originally said that she thought that Jessie would be in a 504 plan because she is scoring so well. But, Jessie's TOD spoke informally with the spec. ed director and recommended a special ed placement. The school now seems very open to having a special ed placement (called 766 here) for her. But we have not had the IEP meeting and I want to go in as informed as possible. The chart that you have seems like it might help to clarify things. Thanks a lot! H. Re: move to 504? Terri, First off, I have a chart (MSWord format) showing the differences between IDEA and 504 plans and would gladly send it as an attachment off-list to anyone who would like it. I don't think attachments are permitted on-list. My son was moved from an IEP to a 504 in 6th grade because he also needed no remedial services of any kind. He receives services from a TOD 5-days a week for one period a day (about an hour), modifications for testing and note taking issues, as well as the FM system. There is nothing he could need as a HOH/deaf student that cannot be provided under 504. This coming year he should be getting a laptop to be able to note-take in high school -- he'll be a freshman. However, during his elementary years he was classfified under IDEA with an IEP. His services have not changed at all from one plan to the other. I fought the transfer from IDEA to 504 and it took 3 meetings with the CSE chairman for us to agree with it. And I mean personal, one-on-one meetings without any committee, just the CSE and the 504 administrator sitting for hours with us explaining every detail and how there would be no interruption in services and no denial of future needs. Since there was to be no change in his services and he did not need the SpecEd stuff, we agreed to the transfer. We put it in writing that we were not 100% comfortable with the transfer and if there was any problem we expected him to be transferred back to IDEA, as agreed to by the CSE Chair. There has been absolutely no problem and no reduction in services. There is no formal goal structure under 504, but there could be if you insisted it be part of the 504 plan. The 504 plan has more flexibility to it, which is both a plus and a minus. Speech/language services are issues directly related to a " physical disability " so that may be the reason for the school's desire to transfer classification. Our son is evaluated each spring using testing which is appropriate for evaluating his advancement. (Stamford Acheivement Tests and another one, whose name I've forgotten). There is a triennial (every 3 years) eval done as well, retesting IQ and all those other things that were done when he was classified in the first place. He has a speech eval done every year as well -- this was never an issue for him. I've been though this transfer ... and I fought it for a while with very good reasons. Make them prove to you that the change is needed and that your child will be better served under 504. The first time they suggested it, I flat-out refused to even discuss it. They dropped the subject. The next time it was brought up more forcefully and I said that I was not at all interested in the transfer. The district had dragged their feet to classifify my son, used any excuse to delay providing appropriate services and had avoided a lawsuit by only a few inches. I basically said: " Prove to me that you are not using this transfer of services to find another way to deny my son the services he needs. Prove that this is not just another version of forum shopping on the part of the district. " Ian could not and would not be able to maintian his progress without those services. It became their problem to convince me. I may be in the minority here, but I have not regretted the transfer to 504 because no services have changed, in fact they were expanded a bit without anyone blinking an eye. Nothing has changed except that I now call the 504 administrator instead of the CSE office when we need things addressed, and he is a very pleasant man. (Of course, there is a note someplace in my son's file warning people that I am " difficult " so perhaps that's why he's so nice.) And on one last conflicting note. From what I understand, Ian is the only student in the BOCES HIRS (Hearing Impaired Related Services) program whose services are provided under 504 instead of IDEA. I don't know the other student's circumstances or what other services they may recieve. But he is also the first 504 that our TOD has ever dealt with. He is also the first to be on High Honor Roll all through middle school. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 I have a chart (MSWord format) showing the differences between IDEA and 504 plans and would gladly send it as an attachment off-list to anyone who would like it. --------------------------------- Hi Jill Could you also send a copy of this chart to me -- off line. Thanks! My daughter is 2 1/2 and we are in MA. Our first IEP meeting will be coming up soon. My daughter was adopted at 12 months with a known hearing loss and has been aided since 14 months. She was just tested by EI and scored above age level in cognitive, fine and gross motor and has age appropriate receptive language but her expressive language is a bit behind. Our school system is luckily known for being rather easy to work with. The special ed director originally said that she thought that Jessie would be in a 504 plan because she is scoring so well. But, Jessie's TOD spoke informally with the spec. ed director and recommended a special ed placement. The school now seems very open to having a special ed placement (called 766 here) for her. But we have not had the IEP meeting and I want to go in as informed as possible. The chart that you have seems like it might help to clarify things. Thanks a lot! H. Re: move to 504? Terri, First off, I have a chart (MSWord format) showing the differences between IDEA and 504 plans and would gladly send it as an attachment off-list to anyone who would like it. I don't think attachments are permitted on-list. My son was moved from an IEP to a 504 in 6th grade because he also needed no remedial services of any kind. He receives services from a TOD 5-days a week for one period a day (about an hour), modifications for testing and note taking issues, as well as the FM system. There is nothing he could need as a HOH/deaf student that cannot be provided under 504. This coming year he should be getting a laptop to be able to note-take in high school -- he'll be a freshman. However, during his elementary years he was classfified under IDEA with an IEP. His services have not changed at all from one plan to the other. I fought the transfer from IDEA to 504 and it took 3 meetings with the CSE chairman for us to agree with it. And I mean personal, one-on-one meetings without any committee, just the CSE and the 504 administrator sitting for hours with us explaining every detail and how there would be no interruption in services and no denial of future needs. Since there was to be no change in his services and he did not need the SpecEd stuff, we agreed to the transfer. We put it in writing that we were not 100% comfortable with the transfer and if there was any problem we expected him to be transferred back to IDEA, as agreed to by the CSE Chair. There has been absolutely no problem and no reduction in services. There is no formal goal structure under 504, but there could be if you insisted it be part of the 504 plan. The 504 plan has more flexibility to it, which is both a plus and a minus. Speech/language services are issues directly related to a " physical disability " so that may be the reason for the school's desire to transfer classification. Our son is evaluated each spring using testing which is appropriate for evaluating his advancement. (Stamford Acheivement Tests and another one, whose name I've forgotten). There is a triennial (every 3 years) eval done as well, retesting IQ and all those other things that were done when he was classified in the first place. He has a speech eval done every year as well -- this was never an issue for him. I've been though this transfer ... and I fought it for a while with very good reasons. Make them prove to you that the change is needed and that your child will be better served under 504. The first time they suggested it, I flat-out refused to even discuss it. They dropped the subject. The next time it was brought up more forcefully and I said that I was not at all interested in the transfer. The district had dragged their feet to classifify my son, used any excuse to delay providing appropriate services and had avoided a lawsuit by only a few inches. I basically said: " Prove to me that you are not using this transfer of services to find another way to deny my son the services he needs. Prove that this is not just another version of forum shopping on the part of the district. " Ian could not and would not be able to maintian his progress without those services. It became their problem to convince me. I may be in the minority here, but I have not regretted the transfer to 504 because no services have changed, in fact they were expanded a bit without anyone blinking an eye. Nothing has changed except that I now call the 504 administrator instead of the CSE office when we need things addressed, and he is a very pleasant man. (Of course, there is a note someplace in my son's file warning people that I am " difficult " so perhaps that's why he's so nice.) And on one last conflicting note. From what I understand, Ian is the only student in the BOCES HIRS (Hearing Impaired Related Services) program whose services are provided under 504 instead of IDEA. I don't know the other student's circumstances or what other services they may recieve. But he is also the first 504 that our TOD has ever dealt with. He is also the first to be on High Honor Roll all through middle school. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi, Could you send this comparison to me. 504 vs. IEP. Thanks, VRNWallace@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi, Could you send this comparison to me. 504 vs. IEP. Thanks, VRNWallace@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi, Could you send this comparison to me. 504 vs. IEP. Thanks, VRNWallace@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Hello, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied to my question about moving from an IEP to a 504 plan. I really appreciate the breadth of knowledge on this list serve! I received the most complete and accurate information here! I am crazy busy trying to prepare for Friday's 8 AM eligibility meeting, so I apologize if I haven't gotten back to you personally yet. But thank you! Terri , Mother of Kathy, 9, CII BTE, mainstreamed in 3rd grade in Natick, MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Hello, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied to my question about moving from an IEP to a 504 plan. I really appreciate the breadth of knowledge on this list serve! I received the most complete and accurate information here! I am crazy busy trying to prepare for Friday's 8 AM eligibility meeting, so I apologize if I haven't gotten back to you personally yet. But thank you! Terri , Mother of Kathy, 9, CII BTE, mainstreamed in 3rd grade in Natick, MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Hello, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied to my question about moving from an IEP to a 504 plan. I really appreciate the breadth of knowledge on this list serve! I received the most complete and accurate information here! I am crazy busy trying to prepare for Friday's 8 AM eligibility meeting, so I apologize if I haven't gotten back to you personally yet. But thank you! Terri , Mother of Kathy, 9, CII BTE, mainstreamed in 3rd grade in Natick, MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi , I just wanted to comment and give our exerience with c-print. It must depend on who does the c-print. My duaghter uses it in the 5th grade and out experience has been wonderful. The person doing it is great and we get the notes everyday to go over what happened in class and study for tests ect. I think my daughter would be lost without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi , I just wanted to comment and give our exerience with c-print. It must depend on who does the c-print. My duaghter uses it in the 5th grade and out experience has been wonderful. The person doing it is great and we get the notes everyday to go over what happened in class and study for tests ect. I think my daughter would be lost without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi , I just wanted to comment and give our exerience with c-print. It must depend on who does the c-print. My duaghter uses it in the 5th grade and out experience has been wonderful. The person doing it is great and we get the notes everyday to go over what happened in class and study for tests ect. I think my daughter would be lost without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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