Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 this is a message forwarded to me from my TC she was not able to forward to this group so i am forwarding it for her.. Ed Escobedo RE: CPR for Dummies This is a really neat tool the AHA & Laerdal has come out with for $29.95 for HOME USE. It comes with a DVD, a little " blow up " Mini Anne and a Family & Friends book. This is very remedial course and for people to learn to save a loved one. There is NO card for this course - repeat - THIS IS NOT A CREDENTIALED COURSE. I have ordered a few so we can show them at our classes. I give a flyer about it to everyone that comes to our class. It's a wonderful way for people to learn to save a neighbor or family member - it DOES NOT replace a class that someone needs for a certification card. The course is called CPR Anytime FAMILY & FRIENDS. All of you instructors are aware of the Family & Friends course. The AHA's goal is for many people to be able to save someone - as mentioned in it's marketing tools -80% of the time the person that has a heart attack is at home - only 5% of the time do they survive, because no one knows CPR. These will make wonderful X-mas gifts for your family & neighbors; however, this is not a replacement for a credentialed Heart Saver class that the student must make at least an 84% on a didactic test and Competently perform CPR skills with a pocket mask. Joe Street brought it to our Regional TC Forum the day before it was available for purchase. Cheryl Vandever Christus Spohn Health System CPR Education Coordinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 this is a message forwarded to me from my TC she was not able to forward to this group so i am forwarding it for her.. Ed Escobedo RE: CPR for Dummies This is a really neat tool the AHA & Laerdal has come out with for $29.95 for HOME USE. It comes with a DVD, a little " blow up " Mini Anne and a Family & Friends book. This is very remedial course and for people to learn to save a loved one. There is NO card for this course - repeat - THIS IS NOT A CREDENTIALED COURSE. I have ordered a few so we can show them at our classes. I give a flyer about it to everyone that comes to our class. It's a wonderful way for people to learn to save a neighbor or family member - it DOES NOT replace a class that someone needs for a certification card. The course is called CPR Anytime FAMILY & FRIENDS. All of you instructors are aware of the Family & Friends course. The AHA's goal is for many people to be able to save someone - as mentioned in it's marketing tools -80% of the time the person that has a heart attack is at home - only 5% of the time do they survive, because no one knows CPR. These will make wonderful X-mas gifts for your family & neighbors; however, this is not a replacement for a credentialed Heart Saver class that the student must make at least an 84% on a didactic test and Competently perform CPR skills with a pocket mask. Joe Street brought it to our Regional TC Forum the day before it was available for purchase. Cheryl Vandever Christus Spohn Health System CPR Education Coordinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 this is a message forwarded to me from my TC she was not able to forward to this group so i am forwarding it for her.. Ed Escobedo RE: CPR for Dummies This is a really neat tool the AHA & Laerdal has come out with for $29.95 for HOME USE. It comes with a DVD, a little " blow up " Mini Anne and a Family & Friends book. This is very remedial course and for people to learn to save a loved one. There is NO card for this course - repeat - THIS IS NOT A CREDENTIALED COURSE. I have ordered a few so we can show them at our classes. I give a flyer about it to everyone that comes to our class. It's a wonderful way for people to learn to save a neighbor or family member - it DOES NOT replace a class that someone needs for a certification card. The course is called CPR Anytime FAMILY & FRIENDS. All of you instructors are aware of the Family & Friends course. The AHA's goal is for many people to be able to save someone - as mentioned in it's marketing tools -80% of the time the person that has a heart attack is at home - only 5% of the time do they survive, because no one knows CPR. These will make wonderful X-mas gifts for your family & neighbors; however, this is not a replacement for a credentialed Heart Saver class that the student must make at least an 84% on a didactic test and Competently perform CPR skills with a pocket mask. Joe Street brought it to our Regional TC Forum the day before it was available for purchase. Cheryl Vandever Christus Spohn Health System CPR Education Coordinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Kaye, I have seen this take home CPR training program and as far as I could tell AED is NOT included. Just adult CPR directed by a DVD which the person follows along with using the manikin provided in the package. According the AHA research skills retention is very good for the folks who follow long with the DVD. The hope is that when someone buys this and takes it home the whole family will learn and early research numbers show about 2.5 persons will learn CPR from this program in addition to the person who purchased the program. There are also two additional lung bags included in the kit to encourage more people to learn adult CPR. I am all for increasing the numbers of folks trained in CPR and AED, as Dr Bledsoe has stated before CPR and defibrillation are the keys for any person to have a chance of surviving a cardiac arrest. We can not count on EMS to arrive in time, because most of the time that is not going to happen. We must shift our focus on having immediate treatment started by the lay persons in order to have a chance at survival. The ideal time for treatment to begin is less than one minute for CPR and less than four minutes for defibrillation. I worked in the EMS for over 20 years and I can tell you there were very few times that I arrived on scene soon enough to make a difference for cardiac arrest victim. If I suffer a cardiac arrest in the City of Dallas today, research shows that 3% of the population is trained in adult CPR. That is extremely low and therefore decreases my chance of surviving a cardiac arrest. If we can get that number of persons trained in adult CPR up to 50 % or higher then everyone has a better chance survival. I expect that some people who take this home class will seek out additional CPR training and this will be a step in the right direction to increasing public awareness and involvement in this very important issue. Bernie Stafford EMTP AHA IT ARC ER and CPR Instructor ________________________________________ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Kaye Brock Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:55 AM To: Subject: RE: CPR for Dummies I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Kaye, I have seen this take home CPR training program and as far as I could tell AED is NOT included. Just adult CPR directed by a DVD which the person follows along with using the manikin provided in the package. According the AHA research skills retention is very good for the folks who follow long with the DVD. The hope is that when someone buys this and takes it home the whole family will learn and early research numbers show about 2.5 persons will learn CPR from this program in addition to the person who purchased the program. There are also two additional lung bags included in the kit to encourage more people to learn adult CPR. I am all for increasing the numbers of folks trained in CPR and AED, as Dr Bledsoe has stated before CPR and defibrillation are the keys for any person to have a chance of surviving a cardiac arrest. We can not count on EMS to arrive in time, because most of the time that is not going to happen. We must shift our focus on having immediate treatment started by the lay persons in order to have a chance at survival. The ideal time for treatment to begin is less than one minute for CPR and less than four minutes for defibrillation. I worked in the EMS for over 20 years and I can tell you there were very few times that I arrived on scene soon enough to make a difference for cardiac arrest victim. If I suffer a cardiac arrest in the City of Dallas today, research shows that 3% of the population is trained in adult CPR. That is extremely low and therefore decreases my chance of surviving a cardiac arrest. If we can get that number of persons trained in adult CPR up to 50 % or higher then everyone has a better chance survival. I expect that some people who take this home class will seek out additional CPR training and this will be a step in the right direction to increasing public awareness and involvement in this very important issue. Bernie Stafford EMTP AHA IT ARC ER and CPR Instructor ________________________________________ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Kaye Brock Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:55 AM To: Subject: RE: CPR for Dummies I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 If I suffer a cardiac arrest in the City of Dallas today, research shows that 3% of the population is trained in adult CPR Bernie, Of those 3% less than .000001% would give you mouth-to-mouth, I know I wouldn't. . But I carry a bag and would bag you. Which brings up a point. I train hundreds of HS students a year in CPR, my after class surveys show they would not do ventilations, even with a pocket mask if confronted with an actual situation. Plus, CPR knowledge is very parishable. Distancing ventilations from the patient with pocket masks, providing some type of easy to use BVM, and CPR instructions/reminders need to be with the Public AED. -MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 If I suffer a cardiac arrest in the City of Dallas today, research shows that 3% of the population is trained in adult CPR Bernie, Of those 3% less than .000001% would give you mouth-to-mouth, I know I wouldn't. . But I carry a bag and would bag you. Which brings up a point. I train hundreds of HS students a year in CPR, my after class surveys show they would not do ventilations, even with a pocket mask if confronted with an actual situation. Plus, CPR knowledge is very parishable. Distancing ventilations from the patient with pocket masks, providing some type of easy to use BVM, and CPR instructions/reminders need to be with the Public AED. -MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 If I suffer a cardiac arrest in the City of Dallas today, research shows that 3% of the population is trained in adult CPR Bernie, Of those 3% less than .000001% would give you mouth-to-mouth, I know I wouldn't. . But I carry a bag and would bag you. Which brings up a point. I train hundreds of HS students a year in CPR, my after class surveys show they would not do ventilations, even with a pocket mask if confronted with an actual situation. Plus, CPR knowledge is very parishable. Distancing ventilations from the patient with pocket masks, providing some type of easy to use BVM, and CPR instructions/reminders need to be with the Public AED. -MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Isn/t it interesting that we " teach " CPR on the phone with pre-arrrival insturctions? A simple question....... Re: CPR for Dummies > > > > I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 > minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had > they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see > this happening. > The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge > they were afraid of doing it period. > > " E. Tate " wrote: > CPR FOR DUMMIES > > ASSOCIATED PRESS > 11/13/2005 > > > DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research > shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little > more than 20 minutes. > > The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting > in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform > CPR. > > " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency > Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going > to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " > > The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at > the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found > that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes > of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. > > > Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: > " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he > said. > > The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard > training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by > performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin > that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance > was also reviewed and graded by instructors. > > The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the > 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of > knowledge remained similar six months later. > > People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get > effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, > which restores a normal heart rhythm. > > Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other > public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to > use them. > > Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to > double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually > in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time > commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in > getting people trained, officials said. > > " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four > hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. > > The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the > heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. > > > > What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org > > E. Tate, LP > Whitehouse, Texas > > > http://www.EMStock.com > http://www.TEMSF.org > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Isn/t it interesting that we " teach " CPR on the phone with pre-arrrival insturctions? A simple question....... Re: CPR for Dummies > > > > I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 > minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had > they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see > this happening. > The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge > they were afraid of doing it period. > > " E. Tate " wrote: > CPR FOR DUMMIES > > ASSOCIATED PRESS > 11/13/2005 > > > DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research > shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little > more than 20 minutes. > > The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting > in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform > CPR. > > " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency > Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going > to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " > > The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at > the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found > that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes > of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. > > > Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: > " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he > said. > > The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard > training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by > performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin > that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance > was also reviewed and graded by instructors. > > The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the > 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of > knowledge remained similar six months later. > > People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get > effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, > which restores a normal heart rhythm. > > Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other > public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to > use them. > > Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to > double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually > in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time > commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in > getting people trained, officials said. > > " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four > hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. > > The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the > heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. > > > > What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org > > E. Tate, LP > Whitehouse, Texas > > > http://www.EMStock.com > http://www.TEMSF.org > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Isn/t it interesting that we " teach " CPR on the phone with pre-arrrival insturctions? A simple question....... Re: CPR for Dummies > > > > I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 > minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had > they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see > this happening. > The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge > they were afraid of doing it period. > > " E. Tate " wrote: > CPR FOR DUMMIES > > ASSOCIATED PRESS > 11/13/2005 > > > DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research > shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little > more than 20 minutes. > > The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting > in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform > CPR. > > " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency > Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going > to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " > > The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at > the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found > that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes > of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. > > > Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: > " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he > said. > > The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard > training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by > performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin > that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance > was also reviewed and graded by instructors. > > The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the > 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of > knowledge remained similar six months later. > > People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get > effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, > which restores a normal heart rhythm. > > Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other > public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to > use them. > > Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to > double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually > in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time > commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in > getting people trained, officials said. > > " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four > hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. > > The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the > heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. > > > > What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org > > E. Tate, LP > Whitehouse, Texas > > > http://www.EMStock.com > http://www.TEMSF.org > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I have to respectfully disagree. Dispatchers may be able to " tell " someone about CPR but I have yet to actually see anyone doing proper CPR upon arrival at a scene. The people were doing something but that was all. This physician may well be very learned, but 20 minutes to perform a medically necessary technique? Why not put all of our training on DVD that way you become a Paramedic in less than two weeks? But seriously, just because CPR has been around for a while does not mean it becomes any less a skill to be taught than any other. You mention " FLUFF " what are you considering that to be? What fluff is put into normal EMS classes? This may sound totally absurd but if it is that simple why are we still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR? CPR and Defibrilation Saves Lives. If it were only that simple we would see more patients walking than we do. " E. Tate " wrote: Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I have to respectfully disagree. Dispatchers may be able to " tell " someone about CPR but I have yet to actually see anyone doing proper CPR upon arrival at a scene. The people were doing something but that was all. This physician may well be very learned, but 20 minutes to perform a medically necessary technique? Why not put all of our training on DVD that way you become a Paramedic in less than two weeks? But seriously, just because CPR has been around for a while does not mean it becomes any less a skill to be taught than any other. You mention " FLUFF " what are you considering that to be? What fluff is put into normal EMS classes? This may sound totally absurd but if it is that simple why are we still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR? CPR and Defibrilation Saves Lives. If it were only that simple we would see more patients walking than we do. " E. Tate " wrote: Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 I have to respectfully disagree. Dispatchers may be able to " tell " someone about CPR but I have yet to actually see anyone doing proper CPR upon arrival at a scene. The people were doing something but that was all. This physician may well be very learned, but 20 minutes to perform a medically necessary technique? Why not put all of our training on DVD that way you become a Paramedic in less than two weeks? But seriously, just because CPR has been around for a while does not mean it becomes any less a skill to be taught than any other. You mention " FLUFF " what are you considering that to be? What fluff is put into normal EMS classes? This may sound totally absurd but if it is that simple why are we still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR? CPR and Defibrilation Saves Lives. If it were only that simple we would see more patients walking than we do. " E. Tate " wrote: Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Danny, I have been on a few calls where dispatch was giving PIA's and the family was doing a fairly decent job. This is especially interesting given the fact that they had never been in an actual class nor seen a professionally prepared demonstration. I find that very few (if any) people doing CPR when we arrive is “proper”, even those that have had formal training in CPR. There is a HUGE difference in putting a simple skill (CPR) on a DVD and using that to educate the masses and providing the proper education to master the basic elements necessary to become a paramedic in 2 weeks. I never have, and never will believe in the “quickie medic” courses. There is simply too much information to absorb and digest in 90 days. I do believe that CPR can be addressed in a DVD self study manner. Also, keep in mind that this is not a “credentialed” course. This course will be used by Mr. & Mrs. that really want to learn CPR “just in case”. They probably would not take a course from the local provider because they are not interested in going to a class and swapping slobber on a mannequin with total strangers. I never said there was “fluff” in EMS Education; I said there was in CPR. CPR Course have added information that is great to know, but is not necessary for the course. I agree that the 20-minute course seems a bit short, but I’m inclined to agree with a scientific study that I am with conjecture and hearsay. The reason we’re “still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR” is because the patient is DEAD when CPR is begun. The patient became dead for a reason, most of which are not going to be corrected by CPR. I guess this (lifestyle issues) is part of the “fluff” part of the CPR course, but I’m still not sold that it is a necessary part of the course. We might see some increase in survivability when we see a decrease in average time to defibrillation, accompanied with a decrease in EMS response time (I’m not holding my breath on this last one). CPR save ratios have always, and will always be low. Dead is dead, that’s a fact. Tater Danny wrote: I have to respectfully disagree. Dispatchers may be able to " tell " someone about CPR but I have yet to actually see anyone doing proper CPR upon arrival at a scene. The people were doing something but that was all. This physician may well be very learned, but 20 minutes to perform a medically necessary technique? Why not put all of our training on DVD that way you become a Paramedic in less than two weeks? But seriously, just because CPR has been around for a while does not mean it becomes any less a skill to be taught than any other. You mention " FLUFF " what are you considering that to be? What fluff is put into normal EMS classes? This may sound totally absurd but if it is that simple why are we still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR? CPR and Defibrilation Saves Lives. If it were only that simple we would see more patients walking than we do. " E. Tate " wrote: Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Danny, I have been on a few calls where dispatch was giving PIA's and the family was doing a fairly decent job. This is especially interesting given the fact that they had never been in an actual class nor seen a professionally prepared demonstration. I find that very few (if any) people doing CPR when we arrive is “proper”, even those that have had formal training in CPR. There is a HUGE difference in putting a simple skill (CPR) on a DVD and using that to educate the masses and providing the proper education to master the basic elements necessary to become a paramedic in 2 weeks. I never have, and never will believe in the “quickie medic” courses. There is simply too much information to absorb and digest in 90 days. I do believe that CPR can be addressed in a DVD self study manner. Also, keep in mind that this is not a “credentialed” course. This course will be used by Mr. & Mrs. that really want to learn CPR “just in case”. They probably would not take a course from the local provider because they are not interested in going to a class and swapping slobber on a mannequin with total strangers. I never said there was “fluff” in EMS Education; I said there was in CPR. CPR Course have added information that is great to know, but is not necessary for the course. I agree that the 20-minute course seems a bit short, but I’m inclined to agree with a scientific study that I am with conjecture and hearsay. The reason we’re “still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR” is because the patient is DEAD when CPR is begun. The patient became dead for a reason, most of which are not going to be corrected by CPR. I guess this (lifestyle issues) is part of the “fluff” part of the CPR course, but I’m still not sold that it is a necessary part of the course. We might see some increase in survivability when we see a decrease in average time to defibrillation, accompanied with a decrease in EMS response time (I’m not holding my breath on this last one). CPR save ratios have always, and will always be low. Dead is dead, that’s a fact. Tater Danny wrote: I have to respectfully disagree. Dispatchers may be able to " tell " someone about CPR but I have yet to actually see anyone doing proper CPR upon arrival at a scene. The people were doing something but that was all. This physician may well be very learned, but 20 minutes to perform a medically necessary technique? Why not put all of our training on DVD that way you become a Paramedic in less than two weeks? But seriously, just because CPR has been around for a while does not mean it becomes any less a skill to be taught than any other. You mention " FLUFF " what are you considering that to be? What fluff is put into normal EMS classes? This may sound totally absurd but if it is that simple why are we still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR? CPR and Defibrilation Saves Lives. If it were only that simple we would see more patients walking than we do. " E. Tate " wrote: Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Danny, I have been on a few calls where dispatch was giving PIA's and the family was doing a fairly decent job. This is especially interesting given the fact that they had never been in an actual class nor seen a professionally prepared demonstration. I find that very few (if any) people doing CPR when we arrive is “proper”, even those that have had formal training in CPR. There is a HUGE difference in putting a simple skill (CPR) on a DVD and using that to educate the masses and providing the proper education to master the basic elements necessary to become a paramedic in 2 weeks. I never have, and never will believe in the “quickie medic” courses. There is simply too much information to absorb and digest in 90 days. I do believe that CPR can be addressed in a DVD self study manner. Also, keep in mind that this is not a “credentialed” course. This course will be used by Mr. & Mrs. that really want to learn CPR “just in case”. They probably would not take a course from the local provider because they are not interested in going to a class and swapping slobber on a mannequin with total strangers. I never said there was “fluff” in EMS Education; I said there was in CPR. CPR Course have added information that is great to know, but is not necessary for the course. I agree that the 20-minute course seems a bit short, but I’m inclined to agree with a scientific study that I am with conjecture and hearsay. The reason we’re “still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR” is because the patient is DEAD when CPR is begun. The patient became dead for a reason, most of which are not going to be corrected by CPR. I guess this (lifestyle issues) is part of the “fluff” part of the CPR course, but I’m still not sold that it is a necessary part of the course. We might see some increase in survivability when we see a decrease in average time to defibrillation, accompanied with a decrease in EMS response time (I’m not holding my breath on this last one). CPR save ratios have always, and will always be low. Dead is dead, that’s a fact. Tater Danny wrote: I have to respectfully disagree. Dispatchers may be able to " tell " someone about CPR but I have yet to actually see anyone doing proper CPR upon arrival at a scene. The people were doing something but that was all. This physician may well be very learned, but 20 minutes to perform a medically necessary technique? Why not put all of our training on DVD that way you become a Paramedic in less than two weeks? But seriously, just because CPR has been around for a while does not mean it becomes any less a skill to be taught than any other. You mention " FLUFF " what are you considering that to be? What fluff is put into normal EMS classes? This may sound totally absurd but if it is that simple why are we still having such a difficult save ratio when it comes to doing CPR? CPR and Defibrilation Saves Lives. If it were only that simple we would see more patients walking than we do. " E. Tate " wrote: Kaye, Even though you and Danny agree that 20 minutes is not long enough, the scientific evidence seems to prove otherwise. I would be very interested to see the actual study and go over it to see what the backgrounds of the students were, etc. Dispatchers using PIA’s can provide effective CPR in seconds, why can’t a 20 minute properly designed course work? I have been in EMS for a LONG time, and teaching CPR just as long. I see absolutely no reason to have a 4 hour CPR course for lay people (or even for HCP's to be quite honest). The course is 90% - 95% fluff, and 5% - 10% CPR education (or about 20 minutes). How many times have you looked across a classroom full of CPR students only to see about half of them nodding off? From what I know about him, Dr. Ahamed Idris is not some fly by night physician that decided to write something to get his 15 seconds of fame. He’s renowned for his CPR research and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field. Given that, the fact that a real study was done, and the results, why do you stand in opposition? This is related to threads we’ve had before and we’ll have in the future; just because, “we’ve always done it this way”, doesn’t make it right. Let’s look over the study before we decide “it’s not gonna work”. Tater Kaye Brock wrote: I have read and reread the article and I have to agree with Danny on this one, 20 minutes is not long enough to effectively teach a group of people (all with different learning cognitives) to do effective CPR and use an AED. If companies are having problems turning thier employees loose for 4 hours then it is the company who is loosing out. I am a certified CPR instructor and I am willing to work with companies who seem to not have the time to allow thier employees to be trained effectively. 4 hours is not that long if you really think about and it also depends on the instructor and how the class is taught as to how well the information is retained. I personally would not want someone who had only 20 minutes of training trying to-do CPR and use an AED on me, not only for my safety but for the safety of others around us. For instance, say I am need immediate CPR and a bystander saw me begin to have problems in the midst of the chaos they panic and forget how to do CPR properly or to use the AED properly? That could cause problems not only for me but other bystanders as well. I hope you understand mypoint and where I am coming from. Kaye Brock, EMT, PALS, BTLS and BLS Instructor " Ozenberger, A. " wrote: I think we need to look at this article a little closer. The people that took the short course did better than those that took the standard course. This might be the course you teach in the future. Anything that will help the public to do more to help save lives, I want to see made available. A. Ozenberger BS,LP,CHT Training Specialist III Education Laboratory UTMB - Galveston (409)747-2146 www.utmb.edu/edlab _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:17 PM To: Subject: Re: CPR for Dummies I have problems with this. The students that were taught this 20 minute course, were they first time students? How many times before had they been instructed in CPR? As a possible refresher course I can see this happening. The students I have taught were not afraid of retaining the knowledge they were afraid of doing it period. " E. Tate " wrote: CPR FOR DUMMIES ASSOCIATED PRESS 11/13/2005 DALLAS (AP) - Too busy to take a four-hour CPR course? New research shows the lifesaving procedure can be effectively taught in a little more than 20 minutes. The finding, presented Sunday at an American Heart Association meeting in Dallas, could broadly expand the number of Americans who can perform CPR. " It's brilliant, " said Dr. Lance Becker, director of the Emergency Resuscitation Center at the University of Chicago. " I think it's going to make our ability to train people much, much easier. " The study, led by Dr. Ahamed Idris, professor of emergency medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, found that just five minutes of training on defibrillator use and 20 minutes of instruction in CPR was as effective as the standard four-hour course. Idris said it makes sense that the shorter course was just as memorable: " The more you have to remember, the more likely you are to forget, " he said. The study used American Airlines employees and compared standard training to a short course taught by DVD. Participants were tested by performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a computerized mannequin that took data on chest compression and ventilation. Their performance was also reviewed and graded by instructors. The 150 people who took the short course did as well or better than the 118 who received standard training. More importantly, retention rates of knowledge remained similar six months later. People suffering cardiac arrest can die in minutes unless they get effective CPR and sometimes a shock to the heart from a defibrillator, which restores a normal heart rhythm. Defibrillators are becoming more common in schools, airports and other public places, but the key is having people nearby who are trained to use them. Having a short course should help meet the heart association's goal to double in the next five years the number of Americans trained annually in cardiopulmonary resuscitation - currently about 8 million. The time commitment for a four-hour course seemed to be a stumbling block in getting people trained, officials said. " It's very difficult for a company to release their employees for four hours to take a CPR course, " Idris said. The study was funded by Laerdal Medical, maker of the training DVD, the heart association, and device maker Philips Medical. What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org E. Tate, LP Whitehouse, Texas http://www.EMStock.com http://www.TEMSF.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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