RE: - help a plea from her Dad!

[Guest guest]

Oh Simon,

you silly goose. That one's easy! You have to find a lampshade..and

a boa. You understand what you must do with those, yes?

THEN, you put the music on. For you, obviously, not her. But, it will

help you

to maintain the effect.

And then, You dance!

in Ma.

Mom to , 20 yrs old (CHARGE), 22 yrs. and partner to Alan (12

years now)

[Guest guest]

hahahaha,

Simon, lovin' the thought of this sight!!

And Flo, I haven't stopped laughing yet.

(Not at your expense, mind you, at your marvelous story telling).

pam

ps. oh, you might have asked for help in this. Will re-read.

[Guest guest]

Simon, I'm smiling and smiling:

I remember those days with so well - and still have some of them.

, for instance, would put wet tissues in her mouth to get her father's

goat. She has always known just what button to push. Believe it or not,

the best advice we ever received which also worked(s) was to ignore her.

Keep a flat expression, show no anger. You have to sort of wade into this

and find your way with J., but it has certainly been the most successful

thing we've done.

Oh, the other part of it, at least in the beginning, was a TOTALLY non

punitive time out --- really just an opportunity for to chill. We still

do

that; generally, however, will actually request this by asking me to sit

on the family room sofa with her and turn on the tv. When she's calm, she

then asks me to turn off the set. Mind you, this took years and lots of work

at Perkins, too.

Thank you for making me smile. Things will get better!

Martha

[Guest guest]

Simon, I'm smiling and smiling:

I remember those days with so well - and still have some of them.

, for instance, would put wet tissues in her mouth to get her father's

goat. She has always known just what button to push. Believe it or not,

the best advice we ever received which also worked(s) was to ignore her.

Keep a flat expression, show no anger. You have to sort of wade into this

and find your way with J., but it has certainly been the most successful

thing we've done.

Oh, the other part of it, at least in the beginning, was a TOTALLY non

punitive time out --- really just an opportunity for to chill. We still

do

that; generally, however, will actually request this by asking me to sit

on the family room sofa with her and turn on the tv. When she's calm, she

then asks me to turn off the set. Mind you, this took years and lots of work

at Perkins, too.

Thank you for making me smile. Things will get better!

Martha

[Guest guest]

Simon, I'm smiling and smiling:

I remember those days with so well - and still have some of them.

, for instance, would put wet tissues in her mouth to get her father's

goat. She has always known just what button to push. Believe it or not,

the best advice we ever received which also worked(s) was to ignore her.

Keep a flat expression, show no anger. You have to sort of wade into this

and find your way with J., but it has certainly been the most successful

thing we've done.

Oh, the other part of it, at least in the beginning, was a TOTALLY non

punitive time out --- really just an opportunity for to chill. We still

do

that; generally, however, will actually request this by asking me to sit

on the family room sofa with her and turn on the tv. When she's calm, she

then asks me to turn off the set. Mind you, this took years and lots of work

at Perkins, too.

Thank you for making me smile. Things will get better!

Martha

[Guest guest]

Simon,

All I have to say is how refreshing for a father to take the brunt of such

behavior changes. Most often it is the mother who gets the " full " dose and

then the father sees the angel child laughing, and playing and having a

grand time and can't imagine what all the concern is.

Not being in your home or with , I can't really say, but it is

generally not a conscious choice of the child, anything deliberate to get

your goat, or anything you are doing wrong so set those perceptions aside.

Then think what are the variables in your time with her, particularly are

there consistent differences compared with Flo's time with her?

Is it the time of day, such as right after getting home from school, but

before Flo gets home?

Is it that you rough house and then she can't regulate herself to calm

back down?

Is it that your time of day with her occurs when she is otherwise at the

end of her rope in holding it all together?

Is it............

On " loosing it " with her and then her calming down - when my Tyler gets into

his neuro rut and is darn nearly manic, pain seems to break his state. I

would love to figure out a way to break the state before that. We keep

trying. Humor is often great!

I am thinking you need a nice pair of big headphones that block out the

sound of her screeching and when she gets into it, let it know it hurts your

ears - put the head phones on, when she stop screeching take them off.....

Would certainly make it easier to " ignore " her.

Then as others have said, if this behavior is simply coming from the quirks

in her nervous system, scolding, disciplining etc aren't likely to change

it, figuring out ways to help her regulate herself and keeping " extra input "

from you to a minimum would likely be more helpful. (One of the most

aggravating things for adults is that it is SOOO common for CHARGE kids to

laugh when they are told no when they are in such states - it makes it seem

like the behavior is a choice when often they just can't unwind themselves;

the no is just more input in an already maxed out system)

Since she does not stay in her bed at night - putting her in her crib to get

the wilds out as I do with Dylan would not be useful, but setting up a

special place for her to be when she gets wound up like this that keeps all

input to a minimum and allows her time to get herself together might be good

to build into your routine and home in some way.

You and Flo tell your stories with such humor, that it is hard to perceive

if there is really a request for information or simply a way to let it out.

Kim

> Hi Everyone

>

> is the horrible one not Elly ignore everything Flo says!

>

> Seriously, this is a subject that Flo has posted on before but now it it is

> getting quite ridiculous. Whenever I am with she shrieks like a

> seagull. Yes, there are certain occasions when it clearly relates to our

> interaction, for example me trying to get her to drink more milk in the

> morning or I am trying to remove her nose and mouth from my leg (or

> preventing her from doing this) - one of her compulsive behaviours (all she

> does is touch and this is far worse with me than Flo).

>

> When she does this shrieking with Flo and Flo signs for her stop, it's

> horrible etc she does. For me it has no effect what so ever. Even tapping

> her hand and signing that she is bad makes no difference, the other morning

> she put her hand back out ! If I tell her off she just laughs. The only time

> she has taken note is a couple of time I have lost my temper and she has

> stopped.However its not great losing your temper and I find it very

> difficult to fake. She has a naughty step - if Flo is not around she will

> continue on this.

>

> Tonight from when she came home from school until when Flo got home with

> Elly some 2 hours it did not matter whether she was upstairs on the toilet

> or eating dinner or playing she would not stop. She ended up on the naughty

> some 5 times without any effect.

>

> It had been suggested that I should try to ignore her (and given she is deaf

> sign to her that I am ignoring her). This has had no effect.

>

> Any thoughts anyone?

>

> Simon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Simon,

All I have to say is how refreshing for a father to take the brunt of such

behavior changes. Most often it is the mother who gets the " full " dose and

then the father sees the angel child laughing, and playing and having a

grand time and can't imagine what all the concern is.

Not being in your home or with , I can't really say, but it is

generally not a conscious choice of the child, anything deliberate to get

your goat, or anything you are doing wrong so set those perceptions aside.

Then think what are the variables in your time with her, particularly are

there consistent differences compared with Flo's time with her?

Is it the time of day, such as right after getting home from school, but

before Flo gets home?

Is it that you rough house and then she can't regulate herself to calm

back down?

Is it that your time of day with her occurs when she is otherwise at the

end of her rope in holding it all together?

Is it............

On " loosing it " with her and then her calming down - when my Tyler gets into

his neuro rut and is darn nearly manic, pain seems to break his state. I

would love to figure out a way to break the state before that. We keep

trying. Humor is often great!

I am thinking you need a nice pair of big headphones that block out the

sound of her screeching and when she gets into it, let it know it hurts your

ears - put the head phones on, when she stop screeching take them off.....

Would certainly make it easier to " ignore " her.

Then as others have said, if this behavior is simply coming from the quirks

in her nervous system, scolding, disciplining etc aren't likely to change

it, figuring out ways to help her regulate herself and keeping " extra input "

from you to a minimum would likely be more helpful. (One of the most

aggravating things for adults is that it is SOOO common for CHARGE kids to

laugh when they are told no when they are in such states - it makes it seem

like the behavior is a choice when often they just can't unwind themselves;

the no is just more input in an already maxed out system)

Since she does not stay in her bed at night - putting her in her crib to get

the wilds out as I do with Dylan would not be useful, but setting up a

special place for her to be when she gets wound up like this that keeps all

input to a minimum and allows her time to get herself together might be good

to build into your routine and home in some way.

You and Flo tell your stories with such humor, that it is hard to perceive

if there is really a request for information or simply a way to let it out.

Kim

> Hi Everyone

>

> is the horrible one not Elly ignore everything Flo says!

>

> Seriously, this is a subject that Flo has posted on before but now it it is

> getting quite ridiculous. Whenever I am with she shrieks like a

> seagull. Yes, there are certain occasions when it clearly relates to our

> interaction, for example me trying to get her to drink more milk in the

> morning or I am trying to remove her nose and mouth from my leg (or

> preventing her from doing this) - one of her compulsive behaviours (all she

> does is touch and this is far worse with me than Flo).

>

> When she does this shrieking with Flo and Flo signs for her stop, it's

> horrible etc she does. For me it has no effect what so ever. Even tapping

> her hand and signing that she is bad makes no difference, the other morning

> she put her hand back out ! If I tell her off she just laughs. The only time

> she has taken note is a couple of time I have lost my temper and she has

> stopped.However its not great losing your temper and I find it very

> difficult to fake. She has a naughty step - if Flo is not around she will

> continue on this.

>

> Tonight from when she came home from school until when Flo got home with

> Elly some 2 hours it did not matter whether she was upstairs on the toilet

> or eating dinner or playing she would not stop. She ended up on the naughty

> some 5 times without any effect.

>

> It had been suggested that I should try to ignore her (and given she is deaf

> sign to her that I am ignoring her). This has had no effect.

>

> Any thoughts anyone?

>

> Simon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

How old is ?

>

> Hi Everyone

>

> is the horrible one not Elly ignore everything Flo says!

>

> Seriously, this is a subject that Flo has posted on before but now

it it is

> getting quite ridiculous. Whenever I am with she shrieks like a

> seagull. Yes, there are certain occasions when it clearly relates to our

> interaction, for example me trying to get her to drink more milk in the

> morning or I am trying to remove her nose and mouth from my leg (or

> preventing her from doing this) - one of her compulsive behaviours

(all she

> does is touch and this is far worse with me than Flo).

>

> When she does this shrieking with Flo and Flo signs for her stop, it's

> horrible etc she does. For me it has no effect what so ever. Even

tapping

> her hand and signing that she is bad makes no difference, the other

morning

> she put her hand back out ! If I tell her off she just laughs. The

only time

> she has taken note is a couple of time I have lost my temper and she has

> stopped.However its not great losing your temper and I find it very

> difficult to fake. She has a naughty step - if Flo is not around she

will

> continue on this.

>

> Tonight from when she came home from school until when Flo got home with

> Elly some 2 hours it did not matter whether she was upstairs on the

toilet

> or eating dinner or playing she would not stop. She ended up on the

naughty

> some 5 times without any effect.

>

> It had been suggested that I should try to ignore her (and given she

is deaf

> sign to her that I am ignoring her). This has had no effect.

>

> Any thoughts anyone?

>

> Simon

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michele,

She will be six in May. Why? Please tell me there is something about age 5

that may be leading to the behaviour. Unfortunately, this is REALLY driving

us all crazy, and of course we wonder what Elly makes of it and sometimes

she also decides to copy it and other times it disturbs her in some way.

's screeching for Simon's benefit does not appear to be related to

anything other than the desire to get a reaction from him. She does it at

whatever time of day. Traditionally, he has dressed her for school, but now

as soon as she sees him the screeching starts, it continues through

breakfast and carries on as long as they are in the same room minus me. It

starts again in the evening as soon as he comes home. Traditionally, I am

the one at home with the girls after school and she is OK (not great but

OK), but when he returns from work, off she goes again if she thinks I can't

hear her. She giggles in a most self satisfied way throughout. Although

she also giggles when I " shhhh " her, at least she also stops the screeches.

So we have the situation where as soon as she thinks I am not around, she

starts the screeching whatever time of day and whatever she happens to be

doing. IT DRIVES ME MAD so goodness knows what it does to him. I don't

like to undermine him to her so I don't want to tell her to stop (which she

would) if he is trying to deal. Someone suggested we try my supporting him

by telling her " do as daddy said and stop screeching " . Worth a try. My

brothers tell me I have a great disapproving face so perhaps this is working

with her, who knows.

The unfortunate thing is that ignoring is not always possible as when the

behaviour is in the morning, she is likely to wake Elly, and this also

applies for the " naughty step " .

Please keep suggestions coming as we are at a loss and being slowly driven

insane.

Flo

Flo

>

> How old is ?

>

[Guest guest]

Michele,

She will be six in May. Why? Please tell me there is something about age 5

that may be leading to the behaviour. Unfortunately, this is REALLY driving

us all crazy, and of course we wonder what Elly makes of it and sometimes

she also decides to copy it and other times it disturbs her in some way.

's screeching for Simon's benefit does not appear to be related to

anything other than the desire to get a reaction from him. She does it at

whatever time of day. Traditionally, he has dressed her for school, but now

as soon as she sees him the screeching starts, it continues through

breakfast and carries on as long as they are in the same room minus me. It

starts again in the evening as soon as he comes home. Traditionally, I am

the one at home with the girls after school and she is OK (not great but

OK), but when he returns from work, off she goes again if she thinks I can't

hear her. She giggles in a most self satisfied way throughout. Although

she also giggles when I " shhhh " her, at least she also stops the screeches.

So we have the situation where as soon as she thinks I am not around, she

starts the screeching whatever time of day and whatever she happens to be

doing. IT DRIVES ME MAD so goodness knows what it does to him. I don't

like to undermine him to her so I don't want to tell her to stop (which she

would) if he is trying to deal. Someone suggested we try my supporting him

by telling her " do as daddy said and stop screeching " . Worth a try. My

brothers tell me I have a great disapproving face so perhaps this is working

with her, who knows.

The unfortunate thing is that ignoring is not always possible as when the

behaviour is in the morning, she is likely to wake Elly, and this also

applies for the " naughty step " .

Please keep suggestions coming as we are at a loss and being slowly driven

insane.

Flo

Flo

>

> How old is ?

>

[Guest guest]

Flo,

I find this really, really odd - it seems a kid could keep up with an

intentional screech whenever I see Daddy to make him nuts for a short period

of time, but to sustain it that consistently? God forbid if it were the

thing to get " stuck " in her brain.

I have no idea what to suggest.

Kim

> Michele,

> She will be six in May. Why? Please tell me there is something about age 5

> that may be leading to the behaviour. Unfortunately, this is REALLY driving

> us all crazy, and of course we wonder what Elly makes of it and sometimes

> she also decides to copy it and other times it disturbs her in some way.

>

> 's screeching for Simon's benefit does not appear to be related to

> anything other than the desire to get a reaction from him. She does it at

> whatever time of day. Traditionally, he has dressed her for school, but now

> as soon as she sees him the screeching starts, it continues through

> breakfast and carries on as long as they are in the same room minus me. It

> starts again in the evening as soon as he comes home. Traditionally, I am

> the one at home with the girls after school and she is OK (not great but

> OK), but when he returns from work, off she goes again if she thinks I can't

> hear her. She giggles in a most self satisfied way throughout. Although

> she also giggles when I " shhhh " her, at least she also stops the screeches.

> So we have the situation where as soon as she thinks I am not around, she

> starts the screeching whatever time of day and whatever she happens to be

> doing. IT DRIVES ME MAD so goodness knows what it does to him. I don't

> like to undermine him to her so I don't want to tell her to stop (which she

> would) if he is trying to deal. Someone suggested we try my supporting him

> by telling her " do as daddy said and stop screeching " . Worth a try. My

> brothers tell me I have a great disapproving face so perhaps this is working

> with her, who knows.

>

> The unfortunate thing is that ignoring is not always possible as when the

> behaviour is in the morning, she is likely to wake Elly, and this also

> applies for the " naughty step " .

>

> Please keep suggestions coming as we are at a loss and being slowly driven

> insane.

>

> Flo

>

> Flo

>

>

>

>>

>> How old is ?

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I have been trying to think about and her odd decision to squeel at

Simon's face - which is how it sometimes looks as she is intently watching

his face for a reaction - (oh the joy of supermarket shopping without kids.

I could think!). There might be one or two reasons why she is pushing his

buttons with such persistence. She did not start off like that but has

gradually built up the length of time she can keep it up. Actually, she

also does it at school and it used to be really bad there but it has got

better. Simon's counterpart at school is her beloved 1:1 assistant Bev who

she also laughs at and ignores if she tells her to stop doing anything.

Lucky for Bev, she is deaf so it drives her less insane but has

found other things to drive her insane.

has always been closer to Simon than to me so this may play a part.

He is also much much more tolerant than I am so I have told her off much

earlier and more often for lesser evils. I also mostly have two levels of

annoyance, slightly annoyed and very annoyed which means that she is used to

my telling her gently a couple of times, then " shouting " at her. Simon,

like most peope, has a wider spectrum than " slightly and very... " When I am

very annoyed, my signing is also very animated so she knows not to push her

luck. I really do think that this is just her pushing her luck. She has

decided that some people warrant being ignored (currently Bev and Simon).

She was ignoring Bev telling her to stop kicking the table, the head teacher

came over and told her to stop and she burst into tears. She used to do the

same with me but has obviously decided I am not quite the ogre she thought

I was.

The really hard bit of course is that we are at a brick wall for what to do

about the behaviour apart from always having me attend to her to minimise

the opportunity for the behaviour, which is not a solution by any means.

Hmmmm, did I say she is laid back and passive?

Flo

>

> Flo,

>

> I find this really, really odd - it seems a kid could keep up with an

> intentional screech whenever I see Daddy to make him nuts for a short

> period

> of time, but to sustain it that consistently? God forbid if it were the

> thing to get " stuck " in her brain.

>

> I have no idea what to suggest.

>

> Kim

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I only asked about the age because I know that at certain ages,

inappropriate behavior is just part of the package--and it sure sounds

to me that she is doing this as a way to get your goats/attention.

You may have already said that you've seen a behavioral psychologist,

but perhaps this would help. I am taking a child psychology course

right now and it seems to me that before the screeching starts,

providing her with something she really likes (an activity she loves

to do with you, etc), may be a proactive way to prevent her from

seeking the attention. It sounds to me (and I'm no professional at

all so I'm just throwing around ideas), that your husband has to

completely ignore the screeching--I mean use ear plugs or leave the

room and act like he isn't bothered in the least. His reactions to

her seem to be exactly what she wants. I've always read that if we

reward and provide attention to the things that our children are doing

right that those will be the behaviors that they will want to keep

doing rather than the ones we focus on that they are doing wrong

(naughty step/you're bad), etc. If we focus on this, then this is

what will be repeated/believed, so she will believe she's bad/naughty

and therefore continue to do things to support this belief. I know

with our kids with CHARGE it's more complicated than that, but in some

instances, it can be as simple as it is for other children, too.

There's a book for managers called " Whale Done " that details the way

Sea World trains their whales and it really is something we could

apply to ourselves with our kids, employees, etc. I tried these

principles with my staff at work and it really worked--to just build

confidence by celebrating those things that are done well. So,

something to think about, I think!!

Good luck!!!!

> >

> > How old is ?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I only asked about the age because I know that at certain ages,

inappropriate behavior is just part of the package--and it sure sounds

to me that she is doing this as a way to get your goats/attention.

You may have already said that you've seen a behavioral psychologist,

but perhaps this would help. I am taking a child psychology course

right now and it seems to me that before the screeching starts,

providing her with something she really likes (an activity she loves

to do with you, etc), may be a proactive way to prevent her from

seeking the attention. It sounds to me (and I'm no professional at

all so I'm just throwing around ideas), that your husband has to

completely ignore the screeching--I mean use ear plugs or leave the

room and act like he isn't bothered in the least. His reactions to

her seem to be exactly what she wants. I've always read that if we

reward and provide attention to the things that our children are doing

right that those will be the behaviors that they will want to keep

doing rather than the ones we focus on that they are doing wrong

(naughty step/you're bad), etc. If we focus on this, then this is

what will be repeated/believed, so she will believe she's bad/naughty

and therefore continue to do things to support this belief. I know

with our kids with CHARGE it's more complicated than that, but in some

instances, it can be as simple as it is for other children, too.

There's a book for managers called " Whale Done " that details the way

Sea World trains their whales and it really is something we could

apply to ourselves with our kids, employees, etc. I tried these

principles with my staff at work and it really worked--to just build

confidence by celebrating those things that are done well. So,

something to think about, I think!!

Good luck!!!!

> >

> > How old is ?

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Flo - A couple of things catch my attention.

One is that she is looking for the reaction on Simon's face; two that you

have larger reactions as a rule and the bigger reactions come sooner.

As a rule if the kid is in " frantic state " then adding intense reactions

would likely add fuel to the fire, but I am wondering if needs more

animation in her ordinary interactions with Simon and the 1:1. I do know

that with tyler's executive function deficits he does not pick up neutral

facial expressions; he does not pick up the gradual change in people's level

of annoyance and generally does not get it that they are bothered until they

blow up, then he thinks it comes out of the blue. And he does not have

vision and hearing loss to compound it. We know that has some

visual processing issues, so when you think the face is the most visually

complex thing to look at, it just makes me think she is needing more

information from their faces and has now found a way to get it.

So the question is - can Simon or the 1:1 make their ordinary interactions

more animated or intense, so she gets the input before resorting to

screeching, and if she does screech can they truly ignore it - head phones

go on when screeching starts, head phones come off when screeching stops.

Use the headphones as the cue to stop screeching, rather than a direction

from Simon or the aide.

As with all things behavioral, things must start with a theory, then you can

try things and see if they work, then gather new information. And of course

behavioral theory starts with the theory that the behavior makes sense to

the person doing it - it is meeting her needs in some way. I think it helps

though if you can separate out the part that implies negative intent on her

part, because that increases your emotional response to the behavior. If

you accept that this is meeting her needs, then try to figure out another

way to meet the need, then perhaps this issue will fade.

Simon sounds like me, and as much as I have learned to not suck into Tyler's

rage attacks over the years, in some ways it has not always been effective,

because later it has been revealed that he truly had no idea how much the

rage attacks bothered me and how hard it was for me to not suck in.

Fortunately those attacks are few and far between not every time I was in

the room - God forbid!

Here's to hoping you figure something out.

Kim

> Kim,

> I have been trying to think about and her odd decision to squeel at

> Simon's face - which is how it sometimes looks as she is intently watching

> his face for a reaction - (oh the joy of supermarket shopping without kids.

> I could think!). There might be one or two reasons why she is pushing his

> buttons with such persistence. She did not start off like that but has

> gradually built up the length of time she can keep it up. Actually, she

> also does it at school and it used to be really bad there but it has got

> better. Simon's counterpart at school is her beloved 1:1 assistant Bev who

> she also laughs at and ignores if she tells her to stop doing anything.

> Lucky for Bev, she is deaf so it drives her less insane but has

> found other things to drive her insane.

>

> has always been closer to Simon than to me so this may play a part.

> He is also much much more tolerant than I am so I have told her off much

> earlier and more often for lesser evils. I also mostly have two levels of

> annoyance, slightly annoyed and very annoyed which means that she is used to

> my telling her gently a couple of times, then " shouting " at her. Simon,

> like most peope, has a wider spectrum than " slightly and very... " When I am

> very annoyed, my signing is also very animated so she knows not to push her

> luck. I really do think that this is just her pushing her luck. She has

> decided that some people warrant being ignored (currently Bev and Simon).

> She was ignoring Bev telling her to stop kicking the table, the head teacher

> came over and told her to stop and she burst into tears. She used to do the

> same with me but has obviously decided I am not quite the ogre she thought

> I was.

>

> The really hard bit of course is that we are at a brick wall for what to do

> about the behaviour apart from always having me attend to her to minimise

> the opportunity for the behaviour, which is not a solution by any means.

>

> Hmmmm, did I say she is laid back and passive?

>

> Flo

>

>

>

>>

>> Flo,

>>

>> I find this really, really odd - it seems a kid could keep up with an

>> intentional screech whenever I see Daddy to make him nuts for a short

>> period

>> of time, but to sustain it that consistently? God forbid if it were the

>> thing to get " stuck " in her brain.

>>

>> I have no idea what to suggest.

>>

>> Kim

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim and Michele,

THANK YOU both so much. Your posts have opened out a few possibilities for

approaches we can take to try and ressolve this crazy thing. We have just

realised that lately I have been doing all the positive activities with

and she probably has less need to rile me for attention as she is

receiving lots of it without me fighting her for some calm. Most of the

interraction with Simon has been about admonitions etc since she started the

annoying behaviours with him as the lucky recipient. Somewhere along the

way, we lost site of our plans to on alternate evenings give the girls our

individual time and attention so that each had a little of each of us

throughout the week. Also mindless chat with a child is much easier when

you don't need to keep trying to get past the negative behaviour. Mindless

chat and activity is where the comfortable and relaxed times happen.

Both your posts have led us to a really positive dialogue this evening with

a strategy for attempting to balance things out for so that she and

daddy have some quality time with specific fun activities while Elly gets my

positive attention back. Of course now we have to make sure both girls get

individual attention from both of us as well as our regular family

activities (we have been much better at this). Here's to all fingers

crossed, rabbits' feet, lucky heather, four leaf clovers, touching wood and

whatever else it takes. I have a feeling this is going to need some

patience, consistency and all the things we all have in short supply.

Gosh, this is why I love this list. Exchange of ideas is so valuable. Will

keep you all posted.

Flo

>

> Flo - A couple of things catch my attention.

> One is that she is looking for the reaction on Simon's face; two that you

> have larger reactions as a rule and the bigger reactions come sooner.

>

> As a rule if the kid is in " frantic state " then adding intense reactions

> would likely add fuel to the fire, but I am wondering if needs

> more

> animation in her ordinary interactions with Simon and the 1:1. I do know

> that with tyler's executive function deficits he does not pick up neutral

> facial expressions; he does not pick up the gradual change in people's

> level

> of annoyance and generally does not get it that they are bothered until

> they

> blow up, then he thinks it comes out of the blue. And he does not have

> vision and hearing loss to compound it. We know that has some

> visual processing issues, so when you think the face is the most visually

> complex thing to look at, it just makes me think she is needing more

> information from their faces and has now found a way to get it.

>

> So the question is - can Simon or the 1:1 make their ordinary interactions

> more animated or intense, so she gets the input before resorting to

> screeching, and if she does screech can they truly ignore it - head phones

> go on when screeching starts, head phones come off when screeching stops.

> Use the headphones as the cue to stop screeching, rather than a direction

> from Simon or the aide.

>

> As with all things behavioral, things must start with a theory, then you

> can

> try things and see if they work, then gather new information. And of

> course

> behavioral theory starts with the theory that the behavior makes sense to

> the person doing it - it is meeting her needs in some way. I think it

> helps

> though if you can separate out the part that implies negative intent on

> her

> part, because that increases your emotional response to the behavior. If

> you accept that this is meeting her needs, then try to figure out another

> way to meet the need, then perhaps this issue will fade.

>

> Simon sounds like me, and as much as I have learned to not suck into

> Tyler's

> rage attacks over the years, in some ways it has not always been

> effective,

> because later it has been revealed that he truly had no idea how much the

> rage attacks bothered me and how hard it was for me to not suck in.

> Fortunately those attacks are few and far between not every time I was in

> the room - God forbid!

>

> Here's to hoping you figure something out.

>

> Kim

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim and Michele,

THANK YOU both so much. Your posts have opened out a few possibilities for

approaches we can take to try and ressolve this crazy thing. We have just

realised that lately I have been doing all the positive activities with

and she probably has less need to rile me for attention as she is

receiving lots of it without me fighting her for some calm. Most of the

interraction with Simon has been about admonitions etc since she started the

annoying behaviours with him as the lucky recipient. Somewhere along the

way, we lost site of our plans to on alternate evenings give the girls our

individual time and attention so that each had a little of each of us

throughout the week. Also mindless chat with a child is much easier when

you don't need to keep trying to get past the negative behaviour. Mindless

chat and activity is where the comfortable and relaxed times happen.

Both your posts have led us to a really positive dialogue this evening with

a strategy for attempting to balance things out for so that she and

daddy have some quality time with specific fun activities while Elly gets my

positive attention back. Of course now we have to make sure both girls get

individual attention from both of us as well as our regular family

activities (we have been much better at this). Here's to all fingers

crossed, rabbits' feet, lucky heather, four leaf clovers, touching wood and

whatever else it takes. I have a feeling this is going to need some

patience, consistency and all the things we all have in short supply.

Gosh, this is why I love this list. Exchange of ideas is so valuable. Will

keep you all posted.

Flo

>

> Flo - A couple of things catch my attention.

> One is that she is looking for the reaction on Simon's face; two that you

> have larger reactions as a rule and the bigger reactions come sooner.

>

> As a rule if the kid is in " frantic state " then adding intense reactions

> would likely add fuel to the fire, but I am wondering if needs

> more

> animation in her ordinary interactions with Simon and the 1:1. I do know

> that with tyler's executive function deficits he does not pick up neutral

> facial expressions; he does not pick up the gradual change in people's

> level

> of annoyance and generally does not get it that they are bothered until

> they

> blow up, then he thinks it comes out of the blue. And he does not have

> vision and hearing loss to compound it. We know that has some

> visual processing issues, so when you think the face is the most visually

> complex thing to look at, it just makes me think she is needing more

> information from their faces and has now found a way to get it.

>

> So the question is - can Simon or the 1:1 make their ordinary interactions

> more animated or intense, so she gets the input before resorting to

> screeching, and if she does screech can they truly ignore it - head phones

> go on when screeching starts, head phones come off when screeching stops.

> Use the headphones as the cue to stop screeching, rather than a direction

> from Simon or the aide.

>

> As with all things behavioral, things must start with a theory, then you

> can

> try things and see if they work, then gather new information. And of

> course

> behavioral theory starts with the theory that the behavior makes sense to

> the person doing it - it is meeting her needs in some way. I think it

> helps

> though if you can separate out the part that implies negative intent on

> her

> part, because that increases your emotional response to the behavior. If

> you accept that this is meeting her needs, then try to figure out another

> way to meet the need, then perhaps this issue will fade.

>

> Simon sounds like me, and as much as I have learned to not suck into

> Tyler's

> rage attacks over the years, in some ways it has not always been

> effective,

> because later it has been revealed that he truly had no idea how much the

> rage attacks bothered me and how hard it was for me to not suck in.

> Fortunately those attacks are few and far between not every time I was in

> the room - God forbid!

>

> Here's to hoping you figure something out.

>

> Kim

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim and Michele,

THANK YOU both so much. Your posts have opened out a few possibilities for

approaches we can take to try and ressolve this crazy thing. We have just

realised that lately I have been doing all the positive activities with

and she probably has less need to rile me for attention as she is

receiving lots of it without me fighting her for some calm. Most of the

interraction with Simon has been about admonitions etc since she started the

annoying behaviours with him as the lucky recipient. Somewhere along the

way, we lost site of our plans to on alternate evenings give the girls our

individual time and attention so that each had a little of each of us

throughout the week. Also mindless chat with a child is much easier when

you don't need to keep trying to get past the negative behaviour. Mindless

chat and activity is where the comfortable and relaxed times happen.

Both your posts have led us to a really positive dialogue this evening with

a strategy for attempting to balance things out for so that she and

daddy have some quality time with specific fun activities while Elly gets my

positive attention back. Of course now we have to make sure both girls get

individual attention from both of us as well as our regular family

activities (we have been much better at this). Here's to all fingers

crossed, rabbits' feet, lucky heather, four leaf clovers, touching wood and

whatever else it takes. I have a feeling this is going to need some

patience, consistency and all the things we all have in short supply.

Gosh, this is why I love this list. Exchange of ideas is so valuable. Will

keep you all posted.

Flo

>

> Flo - A couple of things catch my attention.

> One is that she is looking for the reaction on Simon's face; two that you

> have larger reactions as a rule and the bigger reactions come sooner.

>

> As a rule if the kid is in " frantic state " then adding intense reactions

> would likely add fuel to the fire, but I am wondering if needs

> more

> animation in her ordinary interactions with Simon and the 1:1. I do know

> that with tyler's executive function deficits he does not pick up neutral

> facial expressions; he does not pick up the gradual change in people's

> level

> of annoyance and generally does not get it that they are bothered until

> they

> blow up, then he thinks it comes out of the blue. And he does not have

> vision and hearing loss to compound it. We know that has some

> visual processing issues, so when you think the face is the most visually

> complex thing to look at, it just makes me think she is needing more

> information from their faces and has now found a way to get it.

>

> So the question is - can Simon or the 1:1 make their ordinary interactions

> more animated or intense, so she gets the input before resorting to

> screeching, and if she does screech can they truly ignore it - head phones

> go on when screeching starts, head phones come off when screeching stops.

> Use the headphones as the cue to stop screeching, rather than a direction

> from Simon or the aide.

>

> As with all things behavioral, things must start with a theory, then you

> can

> try things and see if they work, then gather new information. And of

> course

> behavioral theory starts with the theory that the behavior makes sense to

> the person doing it - it is meeting her needs in some way. I think it

> helps

> though if you can separate out the part that implies negative intent on

> her

> part, because that increases your emotional response to the behavior. If

> you accept that this is meeting her needs, then try to figure out another

> way to meet the need, then perhaps this issue will fade.

>

> Simon sounds like me, and as much as I have learned to not suck into

> Tyler's

> rage attacks over the years, in some ways it has not always been

> effective,

> because later it has been revealed that he truly had no idea how much the

> rage attacks bothered me and how hard it was for me to not suck in.

> Fortunately those attacks are few and far between not every time I was in

> the room - God forbid!

>

> Here's to hoping you figure something out.

>

> Kim

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, of course it was B's and Kim's posts that unlocked the

block. Too many people with similar names.

Thank you to both.

Flo

[Guest guest]

Sorry, of course it was B's and Kim's posts that unlocked the

block. Too many people with similar names.

Thank you to both.

Flo

[Guest guest]

Sorry, of course it was B's and Kim's posts that unlocked the

block. Too many people with similar names.

Thank you to both.

Flo

[Guest guest]

LOL i wonder if they themselv3es get confused

>

> Sorry, of course it was B's and Kim's posts that unlocked the

> block. Too many people with similar names.

>

> Thank you to both.

>

> Flo

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL i wonder if they themselv3es get confused

>

> Sorry, of course it was B's and Kim's posts that unlocked the

> block. Too many people with similar names.

>

> Thank you to both.

>

> Flo

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are so welcome--I've gotten so much from all of you on this list,

I'm glad I can give back sometimes. Good luck and PLEASE keep us

updated!!! B.

>

> Sorry, of course it was B's and Kim's posts that unlocked the

> block. Too many people with similar names.

>

> Thank you to both.

>

> Flo

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This part is so true and makes it so much harder with our CHARGERs who need

a much more focused interaction, can't exactly chat across the room while

doing the dishes and they play.... So good luck and hope it leads to the

good times at the very least. kim

> I have a feeling this is going to need some

> patience, consistency and all the things we all have in short supply.