Re: confused about calculating ratios

[Guest guest]

>I find this very confusing. I'm not a mathematician but I know that you have

to convert the units correctly to get a correct calculation and that is what is

confusing me with the ratios that are being given here. It seems like the

decimal point difference works if it is pg converted to ng--that's just a

difference of 1000. But pmol converted to ng seems pretty different.

Yes, I wouldn't get too worried about the specifics though, can you

post both the FT3 and the RT3 they gave you again together with the

reference ranges?? and we can do some rough look see that way.

The other confusion on the normal units of results is some are per

deciliter and some per liter, that is then a factor of 10 and often

conspires with the factor of 1000 to give a factor of 100!

Nick

[Guest guest]

>Nick, I'm still trying to understand how this works. I'm wondering if you

could put a calculator on the website??

I'm not going to go there at the moment, my web skills don't go in

that direction!

>

>I found this one: http://www.molbiol.ru/eng/scripts/01_04.html

Looks useful though I've not seenn any other results expressed in pmol

apart from yours.

Are you sure that's a genuine lad result and not a typo from the lab??

Nick

[Guest guest]

Actually, Nick, it wasn't my own values. I was contemplating this poster's

labs:

" Can anyone help me figure out my T3/rT3 Ratio with the following results: Free

T3 4.4 pmol/L

rT3 29.73 ng/dL

Thanks.

Jeff "

So I'm trying to understand how you and Val calculated it to be about a ratio of

14, without converting the units.

Re my own labs, I'm still trying to get an rT3 done, as I am here in China (work

assignment) and so far no luck. My daughter will be getting her results this

week, though. So I trying to learn the ropes of this calculation.

Sherry

>

> >I find this very confusing. I'm not a mathematician but I know that you have

to convert the units correctly to get a correct calculation and that is what is

confusing me with the ratios that are being given here. It seems like the

decimal point difference works if it is pg converted to ng--that's just a

difference of 1000. But pmol converted to ng seems pretty different.

>

> Yes, I wouldn't get too worried about the specifics though, can you

> post both the FT3 and the RT3 they gave you again together with the

> reference ranges?? and we can do some rough look see that way.

>

> The other confusion on the normal units of results is some are per

> deciliter and some per liter, that is then a factor of 10 and often

> conspires with the factor of 1000 to give a factor of 100!

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

>So I'm trying to understand how you and Val calculated it to be about a ratio

of 14, without converting the units.

by not noticing the units!! it was an error

The numbers were plausible for the normal units and hence I didn't see

them.

Nick

[Guest guest]

>Re my own labs, I'm still trying to get an rT3 done, as I am here in China

(work assignment) and so far no luck. My daughter will be getting her results

this week, though. So I trying to learn the ropes of this calculation.

At the end of the day how you feel and how you repond to meds is the

most important thing, labs can give guidance or help " sell it to

doctors " but how you feel plus pulse and temperature are the main

thing

Are you on any thyroid meds?

Nick

[Guest guest]

Yes, I am. I was on Armour for roughly 30 years, then crashed badly after the

reformulation. I recovered on NT but realized I was probably still not

optimized as I have had symptoms all along.

I've switched from NT, currently on pure T3 (generic cytomel). Off T4

completely for 2.5 weeks. I'm currently on 75 of cytomel, and doing okay. Not

on HC. Temps and pulses have been fairly stable and temps still a bit low.

Average temp is usually 36.7, or a tad lower. Pulse runs in the 70' and 80's.

Sherry

>

> >Re my own labs, I'm still trying to get an rT3 done, as I am here in China

(work assignment) and so far no luck. My daughter will be getting her results

this week, though. So I trying to learn the ropes of this calculation.

>

> At the end of the day how you feel and how you repond to meds is the

> most important thing, labs can give guidance or help " sell it to

> doctors " but how you feel plus pulse and temperature are the main

> thing

>

> Are you on any thyroid meds?

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

>Yes, I am. I was on Armour for roughly 30 years, then crashed badly after the

reformulation.

Welcome to the club, I was on Armour or NT (whatever I could get) for

10 years and did OK as long as I took enough, which was a LOT

>I recovered on NT but realized I was probably still not optimized as I have had

symptoms all along.

Yep, those niggling " not quite there " things

>

>I've switched from NT, currently on pure T3 (generic cytomel). Off T4

completely for 2.5 weeks. I'm currently on 75 of cytomel, and doing okay. Not

on HC. Temps and pulses have been fairly stable and temps still a bit low.

Average temp is usually 36.7, or a tad lower. Pulse runs in the 70' and 80's.

Keep ramping up as the T4 decays away, no point in a RT3 test now, you

will get rid of it if you keep on that much Cytomel or more.

I had 2 surges, the first one was after a week or two when I think

that the T4 in circulation suddenly started converting, the other one

was at 11 weeks when resistance cleared.

Nick

--

for more information go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Honestly it is EASIER than everyone tries to make it. ALL the

" conversions " are in 10's, 100's or 1000's. so do the math and put the

decimal where it makes sense. If FT3 is near the bottom of range and RT3

is above mid-range, you have an problem with high RT3 so a ratio of 150

would not make sense, but 15 would,. This si how I learned ot do the

ratios, btu then I failed pre-algebra as I did the equasions correctly

in my head btu could not write them out how i got them. It si the way I

process math. BTW I was considered a prodigy in school. Particularly in

math but this one is easy.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

> Yep, those niggling " not quite there " things

Due to having lyme disease, and celiac plus ongoing digestive issues, I was not

considering thyroid as a possible cause. I was functional, but still dealt with

a lot of symptoms and have been on a ton of treatments. Now I'm hoping treating

the rT3 problem will make a big difference.

> >I've switched from NT, currently on pure T3 (generic cytomel). Off T4

completely for 2.5 weeks. I'm currently on 75 of cytomel, and doing okay. Not

on HC. Temps and pulses have been fairly stable and temps still a bit low.

Average temp is usually 36.7, or a tad lower. Pulse runs in the 70' and 80's.

> Keep ramping up as the T4 decays away, no point in a RT3 test now, you will

get rid of it if you keep on that much Cytomel or more.

I had 2 surges, the first one was after a week or two when I think

that the T4 in circulation suddenly started converting, the other one

was at 11 weeks when resistance cleared.

>

> Nick

Thanks, I've read your posts with interest since you also experienced the Armour

fiasco. I was only on 2-2.5 grains of Armour/NT, and my blood tests were okay

so I thought I was fine. The Armour situation may have an up side for me--since

it led me to the realization that I was not optimzed before and very likely have

an rT3 issue. I am hoping to be able to keep ramping up without any problems

with adrenals. I can't get that tested either. Also I am avoiding any form of

prednisone.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

> Yep, those niggling " not quite there " things

Due to having lyme disease, and celiac plus ongoing digestive issues, I was not

considering thyroid as a possible cause. I was functional, but still dealt with

a lot of symptoms and have been on a ton of treatments. Now I'm hoping treating

the rT3 problem will make a big difference.

> >I've switched from NT, currently on pure T3 (generic cytomel). Off T4

completely for 2.5 weeks. I'm currently on 75 of cytomel, and doing okay. Not

on HC. Temps and pulses have been fairly stable and temps still a bit low.

Average temp is usually 36.7, or a tad lower. Pulse runs in the 70' and 80's.

> Keep ramping up as the T4 decays away, no point in a RT3 test now, you will

get rid of it if you keep on that much Cytomel or more.

I had 2 surges, the first one was after a week or two when I think

that the T4 in circulation suddenly started converting, the other one

was at 11 weeks when resistance cleared.

>

> Nick

Thanks, I've read your posts with interest since you also experienced the Armour

fiasco. I was only on 2-2.5 grains of Armour/NT, and my blood tests were okay

so I thought I was fine. The Armour situation may have an up side for me--since

it led me to the realization that I was not optimzed before and very likely have

an rT3 issue. I am hoping to be able to keep ramping up without any problems

with adrenals. I can't get that tested either. Also I am avoiding any form of

prednisone.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

>The Armour situation may have an up side for me--since it led me to the

realization that I was not optimzed before and very likely have an rT3 issue.

It certainly had that bonus for me, I knew I had " tissue resistance " ,

had no idea what that was caused by and didn't dream that it could be

cleared. It was coming back to the web researching the Armour problems

that brought me here.

Nick

[Guest guest]

You were farther along on realization than I was, I had no clue it was thyroid.

It was the heads up of an online friend on an unrelated forum that tipped me to

the Armour and also to the rT3.

When did your symptoms clear in the process? I'm having a mixed response.

Sherry

>

> >The Armour situation may have an up side for me--since it led me to the

realization that I was not optimzed before and very likely have an rT3 issue.

>

> It certainly had that bonus for me, I knew I had " tissue resistance " ,

> had no idea what that was caused by and didn't dream that it could be

> cleared. It was coming back to the web researching the Armour problems

> that brought me here.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

You were farther along on realization than I was, I had no clue it was thyroid.

It was the heads up of an online friend on an unrelated forum that tipped me to

the Armour and also to the rT3.

When did your symptoms clear in the process? I'm having a mixed response.

Sherry

>

> >The Armour situation may have an up side for me--since it led me to the

realization that I was not optimzed before and very likely have an rT3 issue.

>

> It certainly had that bonus for me, I knew I had " tissue resistance " ,

> had no idea what that was caused by and didn't dream that it could be

> cleared. It was coming back to the web researching the Armour problems

> that brought me here.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

You my not be a child anymore, but you're still a prodigy, Val. Few of us could

put together the often complex info you've read over the years into such

understandable and useful ways. And if you don't think so, just listen to

yourself explaining the receptors on TalkShoe.... LOL Nice to have a voice to

put with all the great posts. Hope you have a wonderful thanksgiving. --Irene

>

>BTW I was considered a prodigy in school.

[Guest guest]

>You were farther along on realization than I was, I had no clue it was thyroid.

It was the heads up of an online friend on an unrelated forum that tipped me to

the Armour and also to the rT3.

The effect was dramatic on me and I managed to find some old batch

tablets to try, I swapped back and forth twice and felt dramatically

worse each time.

One advantage of multidosing is you end up with odd bottles around

with 2 or 3 in each!

>

>When did your symptoms clear in the process? I'm having a mixed response.

The Armour ones went atraight away when I went onto decent natural, I

got those cleared before T3 and was only even on the rubbish for a

week waiting for supplies.

I discovered the Greater Pharma Natural, it was even better than old

Armour.

When I went onto T3 it took me a couple of weeks to get the dose

stabilised but after that I was able to track the decay of the T4 with

weekly increases and stay " non-hypo " and functioning pretty well all

the way through to clearance at 11 weeks when I had to drop to 1/4

dose for a day and then over a week ramp up to half what I was on

while I had resistance.

I tried once to swap back, decided it wasn't working, and am on T3

only. I think I am possibly going to keep on seeing odd improvements

over the months to come, I certainly feel well at the moment and have

shaken off a cold easily.

What was a shock coming from natural was that the T3 kicked in and

faded out more slowly than the natural had for me, I overdosed the

first day because of that.

I think for me that was because I had resistance to the T3 in the

Natural and was used to a kick from the T2.

Certainly T3 is easy to dose by symptoms, once T4 is out of the way

it's a doddle with a timescale that is quick enough to make any slight

overdose last a few hours before it clears and yet long enough to feel

stable.

For me I have to multidose through the day, I can't take a lot at once

or it depletes cortisol and I drop in temperature.. I can take more

at a time in the morning than the afternoon too for the same reason I

assume

Nick

[Guest guest]

> The effect was dramatic on me and I managed to find some old batch

> tablets to try, I swapped back and forth twice and felt dramatically

> worse each time.

I spiraled downhill over a matter of weeks on the new Armour. Symptoms became

more frequent and dramatic, included fatigue, brain fog, insomnia, digestive

issues--constipation, bloating, and increasing food intolerances. I was already

on a restricted diet (SCD, and only very easy to digest stuff), and week by week

was losing more and more foods.

In retrospect, I realized some days I would feel better in the morning, and an

hour after taking the Armour, symptoms would hit like a train. They would

improve a bit in the late afternoon and evening.

When I started skipping Armour I would feel better right away, but would feel

MUCH better about 36 hours later. Eventually with my doc's permission, I went

off for ten days before I returned to the USA and got on NT. I was hypo for

sure, but better than when on Armour. I improved on NT very well, after a

couple of months I was close to where I was before the new Armour, except not

all digestive symptoms had cleared.

To me, this experience doesn't quite fit the cellulose interference hypothesis.

I think there is more to it than that.

>

> When I went onto T3 it took me a couple of weeks to get the dose

> stabilised but after that I was able to track the decay of the T4 with

> weekly increases and stay " non-hypo " and functioning pretty well all

> the way through to clearance at 11 weeks when I had to drop to 1/4

> dose for a day and then over a week ramp up to half what I was on

> while I had resistance.

>

This is helpful to know. I'm wondering if this week I've started to not keep

pace with the T4 decay.

I've been on 75 for 4 days. Last week on 62.5, I had clearing of constipation

and my energy had been quite good up until this week. I am losing ground this

week. Constipation is back, some severe bloating, I'm more tired, I have some

brain fog as well, & perhaps mild depression??

Temps this week: Dropped a bit the first day of the increase. Averages since are

36.7, 36.5, 36.6. Pulses in the upper 70s and 80s, but I notice in the later

afternoon and evening it can be racing in the 90s or up to 100, also after the

bedtime dose. I find the salt in water helps with this to some degree. Also

the pulse doesn't necessarily stay high. This morning it is down to 68, with

some skipped beats.

I've not had the chance to check adrenals since I'm in China, and want to avoid

taking cortisol if possible. Ferritin levels last check were 47. My doc hasn't

wanted me on iron, I forget why, has something to do with lyme disease I think.

I'm taking Vitamin C when I eat meat, hoping to help with iron absorption.

> For me I have to multidose through the day, I can't take a lot at once or it

depletes cortisol and I drop in temperature.. I can take more at a time in the

morning than the afternoon too for the same reason I assume>

>

Anyway, I wonder what I should do with my T3 dose. I feel like I need more, so

am thinking I'll watch temps and pulses and see if it settles down in a few days

so I can push it up again. Current dosage is: 25, 12.5, 12.5, and 25. Should

I tweak the timing and dosage amounts? Should I take temps more often through

the day?

Sherry

[Guest guest]

> The effect was dramatic on me and I managed to find some old batch

> tablets to try, I swapped back and forth twice and felt dramatically

> worse each time.

I spiraled downhill over a matter of weeks on the new Armour. Symptoms became

more frequent and dramatic, included fatigue, brain fog, insomnia, digestive

issues--constipation, bloating, and increasing food intolerances. I was already

on a restricted diet (SCD, and only very easy to digest stuff), and week by week

was losing more and more foods.

In retrospect, I realized some days I would feel better in the morning, and an

hour after taking the Armour, symptoms would hit like a train. They would

improve a bit in the late afternoon and evening.

When I started skipping Armour I would feel better right away, but would feel

MUCH better about 36 hours later. Eventually with my doc's permission, I went

off for ten days before I returned to the USA and got on NT. I was hypo for

sure, but better than when on Armour. I improved on NT very well, after a

couple of months I was close to where I was before the new Armour, except not

all digestive symptoms had cleared.

To me, this experience doesn't quite fit the cellulose interference hypothesis.

I think there is more to it than that.

>

> When I went onto T3 it took me a couple of weeks to get the dose

> stabilised but after that I was able to track the decay of the T4 with

> weekly increases and stay " non-hypo " and functioning pretty well all

> the way through to clearance at 11 weeks when I had to drop to 1/4

> dose for a day and then over a week ramp up to half what I was on

> while I had resistance.

>

This is helpful to know. I'm wondering if this week I've started to not keep

pace with the T4 decay.

I've been on 75 for 4 days. Last week on 62.5, I had clearing of constipation

and my energy had been quite good up until this week. I am losing ground this

week. Constipation is back, some severe bloating, I'm more tired, I have some

brain fog as well, & perhaps mild depression??

Temps this week: Dropped a bit the first day of the increase. Averages since are

36.7, 36.5, 36.6. Pulses in the upper 70s and 80s, but I notice in the later

afternoon and evening it can be racing in the 90s or up to 100, also after the

bedtime dose. I find the salt in water helps with this to some degree. Also

the pulse doesn't necessarily stay high. This morning it is down to 68, with

some skipped beats.

I've not had the chance to check adrenals since I'm in China, and want to avoid

taking cortisol if possible. Ferritin levels last check were 47. My doc hasn't

wanted me on iron, I forget why, has something to do with lyme disease I think.

I'm taking Vitamin C when I eat meat, hoping to help with iron absorption.

> For me I have to multidose through the day, I can't take a lot at once or it

depletes cortisol and I drop in temperature.. I can take more at a time in the

morning than the afternoon too for the same reason I assume>

>

Anyway, I wonder what I should do with my T3 dose. I feel like I need more, so

am thinking I'll watch temps and pulses and see if it settles down in a few days

so I can push it up again. Current dosage is: 25, 12.5, 12.5, and 25. Should

I tweak the timing and dosage amounts? Should I take temps more often through

the day?

Sherry

[Guest guest]

You could try some adaptogens. Rhodiola and Ashwaganda are the ones I

see gettign the best results. There si no cortils in them but they help

lower high and raise lwo coritosl if it si not ioff too badlty. If your

ferritin is in the 40's you MAY need iron. Many doctors haven';t a clue

to hwo important that is to tolerating and be ing able t utilize tyyroid

hormoensl

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

>

> You could try some adaptogens. Rhodiola and Ashwaganda are the ones I

> see gettign the best results.

>

Thanks, I've found the Chinese term for rhodiola, and if it is an herb commonly

used in Chinese medicine I should be able to find it in the raw (dried) form.

My only concern is that chinese herbs here can be very high in toxic metals and

I am already mercury toxic (which has not responded to any chelation). Also,

I've no idea how to calculate the dose.

I've also not found a pure iron supplement here, its always mixed in with other

things.

I can't easily get stuff from the USA. Mail often doesn't arrive and takes

forever.

So given my limitations, I'm going to try every 2 hours small dosage of T3 and

see if it helps.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

>

> You could try some adaptogens. Rhodiola and Ashwaganda are the ones I

> see gettign the best results.

>

Thanks, I've found the Chinese term for rhodiola, and if it is an herb commonly

used in Chinese medicine I should be able to find it in the raw (dried) form.

My only concern is that chinese herbs here can be very high in toxic metals and

I am already mercury toxic (which has not responded to any chelation). Also,

I've no idea how to calculate the dose.

I've also not found a pure iron supplement here, its always mixed in with other

things.

I can't easily get stuff from the USA. Mail often doesn't arrive and takes

forever.

So given my limitations, I'm going to try every 2 hours small dosage of T3 and

see if it helps.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

Also, one more note. It appears to me that my temps are doing a " contraction "

pattern, where there was initial stress with increasing to 75, but it is

stabilizing.

As long as the temp does stabilize, can I try to push the T3 up again--keeping

in mind that I don't have good options for adrenal and ferritin support?

Sherry

[Guest guest]

Also, one more note. It appears to me that my temps are doing a " contraction "

pattern, where there was initial stress with increasing to 75, but it is

stabilizing.

As long as the temp does stabilize, can I try to push the T3 up again--keeping

in mind that I don't have good options for adrenal and ferritin support?

Sherry

[Guest guest]

>

>As long as the temp does stabilize, can I try to push the T3 up again--keeping

in mind that I don't have good options for adrenal and ferritin support?

If temperature is stable and low and pulse is reasonable then you can

try an increase and see how your body reacts.

After T4 has decayed away tour T3 levels stabilise within 3 or 4 days

after and increase and you can decide whether to step up then

dependent on symptoms and pulse/temperature.

Nick

--

for more information go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks to you both.

I have found some rhodiola root, so am making tea with it. I was not able to

find hydrocortisone, except in a cream. My current plan:

--Stay at 75 for now of T3, but take small doses every 2 hours with a little

larger dose at bedtime. (My tablets crush when trying to cut them, so the doses

are small but not exact)

--Add the rhodiola root tea.

--Take salt water when needed according to symptoms

--watch temps, pulses and symptoms to see if things stablize over the next week.

Sherry

PS. (I'm continuing to post in the same thread so all the info is together, even

though it no longer fits the subject.)

[Guest guest]

Thanks to you both.

I have found some rhodiola root, so am making tea with it. I was not able to

find hydrocortisone, except in a cream. My current plan:

--Stay at 75 for now of T3, but take small doses every 2 hours with a little

larger dose at bedtime. (My tablets crush when trying to cut them, so the doses

are small but not exact)

--Add the rhodiola root tea.

--Take salt water when needed according to symptoms

--watch temps, pulses and symptoms to see if things stablize over the next week.

Sherry

PS. (I'm continuing to post in the same thread so all the info is together, even

though it no longer fits the subject.)