Re: AVT and sign

November 1, 2003

,

It sounds like what you're looking for would be found in a program that deals

with head trauma or brain injury, not your typical hearing impaired program. So

many SLPs focus on rebuilding language for those injuries, I would imagine your

state could point you in the right direction for those resources. Given your

son's cause for his hearing loss, I would imagine having someone who could

bridge the gap between his brain injuries and hearing loss would be important

(my apologies if I'm summarizing his medical history incorrectly; I'm trying to

remember your earlier posts on the subject).

I tend to just say " Hadley has a hearing impairment " when she isn't responding

to a stranger. I try not to get any more involved in conversations unless the

person winds up saying something that sounds like they know what they are

talking about! (we all know the keywords, so it's like suddenly talking to a

kindred spirit!). I agree, it can be incredibly annoying.

Good luck!

Kerry

AVT and sign

Ok I know this is a long way off because isn't even close to having

sign down pat, but I was wondering if anyone had info on teaching a child

who has no word recognition how to read lips and talk. He is going to be a

primary sign user but it would be nice to also give him the option of

talking. Anyone have info on that or when to start? I don't think he is

mentally ready for this yet and because of his other issues this may not be

an option but it is something I would like to try in the future. Any info?

I don't even know if that would even be a form of AVT, I don't really think

it is since there is no A it would be VVT which is for Visual Verbal

Training. We have no word recognition to work with so we need to be able to

explain how to make the sounds and identify the look of them on someone's

mouth when they are talking.

On another note I get so tired of people asking questions, I know that

they don't know, but it is really frustrating to always have to explain he

has no functional hearing. I used to just smile and be on my way because

they would pass it off as kids being kids but he is almost 3 now so they

expect a response and look at me waiting for me to tell him what to say. It

s not that I'm embarrased I'm just sick of explaining it to everyone. Now I

just say he's deaf, unless it is someone who will be around him a lot. I

know technically that isn't true, because he only has a mild impairment, but

really it is deafness of the brain, he doesn't understand anything so really

as far as language is concerned he is completely deaf, he just can hear

environmental sounds fairly well. The audiologists we have seen would have

a heart attack if they heard me say that, but it just isn't practical to

explain to every passing stranger who wants to talk to that he can hear

sound but doesn't understand it. When I say he doesn't understand, they

expect me to explain it to him. This is too complicated for the general

stranger to grasp without a long drawn out explination, and obviously I don

t have time or energy for that. There are friends of mine that still don't

understand they are shocked when he turns his head to banging on the wall

but won't respond when they call him. I told them he doesn't understand any

speech and doesn't even respond to it, but they don't get it, they don't

understand that he can hear but that part doesn't register. Anyway sorry

for this I didn't realize this would be a venting session, I just had a lady

come over this morning who looked at me weird when she was saying " hi " to

multiple times without so much as a glance from him and when I told her

that he couldn't hear she gave me this weird look. I just don't want to

have to go into it all, is that so wrong? Do I have to specify that while

he can hear most things speech just doesn't make any sense to him? As far

as speech goes he is deaf, that's why they call it pure word deafness, he

has 0% word recognition. Is it so wrong for me just to call him deaf? He

can't talk and may never be able to, he won't respond to verbal

communication, so why can't I just leave it at that instead of having to

explain to every passing stranger what they don't need to know and probably

won't understand?

Thanks for listening,

November 1, 2003

Ok I understand your point, however 's brain injury has caused damage

in the area of the hearing mechanism and he has problems with his hearing

such as delayed latencies which cause the sound to be unclear, as well as

him having a mild high frequency hearing loss. So he is hearing impaired.

That of course isn't his biggest problem his biggest problem is his

inability to process speech. He is not CAPD he is not Learning Disabled, he

is not autistic, he doesn't understand what he is hearing, it is the same as

if a child were deaf only he hears and understands most environmental sounds

I say most because there is a hearing loss there but it is mild. I'm sorry

if I come across as upset but it is just really frustrating for me, they don

t have programs for because most people like him are adults and they

already learned language by the time this happened, he was born with this.

It isn't a matter of mental retardation or anything he is able to sign and

his cognative development is only down because he can't follow simple

instructions due to his lack of language because before his surgeries he was

not able to visually take in what he needed as well. So if the biggest

problem is the fact that he doesn't understand what he hears why should I

put him in a class with children who are CAPD, Autistic, or Learning

Disabled when the main focus there is not teaching him language? Why is it

so different from a child who is deaf, he doesn't know what he is hearing

just because he hears loudly why is that so different? He has been

diagnosed with a neural hearing deficite which means the brain doesn't hear

the sound. I am sick of having to explain to strangers what is wrong with

him when they don't understand anyway and it takes too long to explain in

the first place so why am I expected to call him anything but hearing

impaired or deaf? I'm not upset with you I am frustrated with the system.

I am tired of people trying to put him in a category of learning disabled,

autistic or CAPD, he doesn't have a processing problem, he doesn't process

anything, his brain isn't responding to the sound because for one it isn't

getting to the brain in tact and for two there is damage that doesn't allow

for processing. So why are people so ready to push us aside into some class

or therapy that can't help him because he doesn't have any functional

hearing? They won't help him as hearing impaired but yet they expect that a

typical speech therapist who has no experience with children who have 0%

word recognition to be able to help this child? No the only type of

therapist who is experienced in helping children with 0% word recognition

are those who work with deaf children. So why just because doesn't

have a severe typical hearing loss is he pushed aside into a different

category? Why is it that people have such a hard time believing that a

neural hearing loss is a " hearing loss " it is only different in that the

ear is mostly in tact but the portion of the brain that receives that sound

and acknowladges it is not. If that isn't considered a hearing loss than

neither should sensorineural because that deals with the nerve which is not

the actual ear it is a part of the brain that is required to make the ear

hear. Now I do think sensorineural is a true hearing loss and I also have

done my research and feel that central hearing loss is also a true hearing

loss. If a person is not physically able to comprehend what they hear

because the sound is messed up why is that different? There has been talk

on her about children with HA's and how the sound is loud enough for them to

hear at a normal level, however they don't hear normally because the sound

is still unclear, so why is that legitimate but if the same thing happens to

a child without a HA then it isn't legitimate? If he acts like a deaf child

doesn't talk like a deaf child, and doesn't respond to sound like a deaf

child then he is deaf, at least that is my opinion. I'm sorry for the long

winded response I am just really frustrated about all this and the bias that

he gets because his issues are caused by something the general population as

well as the medical community doesn't understand.

-- Re: AVT and sign

,

It sounds like what you're looking for would be found in a program that

deals with head trauma or brain injury, not your typical hearing impaired

program. So many SLPs focus on rebuilding language for those injuries, I

would imagine your state could point you in the right direction for those

resources. Given your son's cause for his hearing loss, I would imagine

having someone who could bridge the gap between his brain injuries and

hearing loss would be important (my apologies if I'm summarizing his medical

history incorrectly; I'm trying to remember your earlier posts on the

subject).

I tend to just say " Hadley has a hearing impairment " when she isn't

responding to a stranger. I try not to get any more involved in

conversations unless the person winds up saying something that sounds like

they know what they are talking about! (we all know the keywords, so it's

like suddenly talking to a kindred spirit!). I agree, it can be incredibly

annoying.

Good luck!

Kerry

AVT and sign

Ok I know this is a long way off because isn't even close to having

sign down pat, but I was wondering if anyone had info on teaching a child

who has no word recognition how to read lips and talk. He is going to be

a

primary sign user but it would be nice to also give him the option of

talking. Anyone have info on that or when to start? I don't think he is

mentally ready for this yet and because of his other issues this may not

be

an option but it is something I would like to try in the future. Any

info?

I don't even know if that would even be a form of AVT, I don't really

think

it is since there is no A it would be VVT which is for Visual Verbal

Training. We have no word recognition to work with so we need to be able

to

explain how to make the sounds and identify the look of them on someone's

mouth when they are talking.

On another note I get so tired of people asking questions, I know

that

they don't know, but it is really frustrating to always have to explain he

has no functional hearing. I used to just smile and be on my way because

they would pass it off as kids being kids but he is almost 3 now so they

expect a response and look at me waiting for me to tell him what to say.

It

s not that I'm embarrased I'm just sick of explaining it to everyone. Now

I

just say he's deaf, unless it is someone who will be around him a lot. I

know technically that isn't true, because he only has a mild impairment,

but

really it is deafness of the brain, he doesn't understand anything so

really

as far as language is concerned he is completely deaf, he just can hear

environmental sounds fairly well. The audiologists we have seen would

have

a heart attack if they heard me say that, but it just isn't practical to

explain to every passing stranger who wants to talk to that he can

hear

sound but doesn't understand it. When I say he doesn't understand, they

expect me to explain it to him. This is too complicated for the general

stranger to grasp without a long drawn out explination, and obviously I

don

t have time or energy for that. There are friends of mine that still don

t

understand they are shocked when he turns his head to banging on the wall

but won't respond when they call him. I told them he doesn't understand

any

speech and doesn't even respond to it, but they don't get it, they don't

understand that he can hear but that part doesn't register. Anyway sorry

for this I didn't realize this would be a venting session, I just had a

lady

come over this morning who looked at me weird when she was saying " hi " to

multiple times without so much as a glance from him and when I told

her

that he couldn't hear she gave me this weird look. I just don't want to

have to go into it all, is that so wrong? Do I have to specify that while

he can hear most things speech just doesn't make any sense to him? As far

as speech goes he is deaf, that's why they call it pure word deafness, he

has 0% word recognition. Is it so wrong for me just to call him deaf? He

can't talk and may never be able to, he won't respond to verbal

communication, so why can't I just leave it at that instead of having to

explain to every passing stranger what they don't need to know and

probably

won't understand?

Thanks for listening,

November 1, 2003

, I would sign to as much as you and he want. He may be

picking up a lot more than you think. I am not sure where to start with

teaching your son how to read lips and talk. I think that comes from years

of speech therapy. What kind of program is he in? I would recommend he be

in a TC program.

As to the weird looks. Don't worry about them. I know they are irritating

and 9 years later still bug me, but a lot of it is people not understanding

anything about hearing loss. I would just tell people he has a hearing loss

and leave it at that. Most people will understand.

>

>Reply-To: Listen-Up

>To: <Listen-Up >

>Subject: AVT and sign

>Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:35:05 -0700 (US Mountain Standard Time)

>

>Ok I know this is a long way off because isn't even close to having

>sign down pat, but I was wondering if anyone had info on teaching a child

>who has no word recognition how to read lips and talk. He is going to be a

>primary sign user but it would be nice to also give him the option of

>talking. Anyone have info on that or when to start? I don't think he is

>mentally ready for this yet and because of his other issues this may not be

>an option but it is something I would like to try in the future. Any info?

>I don't even know if that would even be a form of AVT, I don't really think

>it is since there is no A it would be VVT which is for Visual Verbal

>Training. We have no word recognition to work with so we need to be able

>to

>explain how to make the sounds and identify the look of them on someone's

>mouth when they are talking.

>

>On another note I get so tired of people asking questions, I know that

>they don't know, but it is really frustrating to always have to explain he

>has no functional hearing. I used to just smile and be on my way because

>they would pass it off as kids being kids but he is almost 3 now so they

>expect a response and look at me waiting for me to tell him what to say.

>It

>s not that I'm embarrased I'm just sick of explaining it to everyone. Now

>I

>just say he's deaf, unless it is someone who will be around him a lot. I

>know technically that isn't true, because he only has a mild impairment,

>but

>really it is deafness of the brain, he doesn't understand anything so

>really

>as far as language is concerned he is completely deaf, he just can hear

>environmental sounds fairly well. The audiologists we have seen would have

>a heart attack if they heard me say that, but it just isn't practical to

>explain to every passing stranger who wants to talk to that he can

>hear

>sound but doesn't understand it. When I say he doesn't understand, they

>expect me to explain it to him. This is too complicated for the general

>stranger to grasp without a long drawn out explination, and obviously I don

>t have time or energy for that. There are friends of mine that still don't

>understand they are shocked when he turns his head to banging on the wall

>but won't respond when they call him. I told them he doesn't understand

>any

>speech and doesn't even respond to it, but they don't get it, they don't

>understand that he can hear but that part doesn't register. Anyway sorry

>for this I didn't realize this would be a venting session, I just had a

>lady

>come over this morning who looked at me weird when she was saying " hi " to

> multiple times without so much as a glance from him and when I told

>her

>that he couldn't hear she gave me this weird look. I just don't want to

>have to go into it all, is that so wrong? Do I have to specify that while

>he can hear most things speech just doesn't make any sense to him? As far

>as speech goes he is deaf, that's why they call it pure word deafness, he

>has 0% word recognition. Is it so wrong for me just to call him deaf? He

>can't talk and may never be able to, he won't respond to verbal

>communication, so why can't I just leave it at that instead of having to

>explain to every passing stranger what they don't need to know and probably

>won't understand?

>Thanks for listening,

>

November 1, 2003

,

Thanks for the encouragement, right now is in speech therapy and that

is it. Our therapist is wonderful but she doesn't have experience with HOH

kids but she is one of the most experienced in her field. The thing is

because he doesn't qualify for the local school for the deaf and blind (They

require you to have a 30dB loss bilaterally on both ABR and audiogram. I

think this is bogus though because if it is just audiogram they accept that

as long as something is abnormal on reflexes or OAE's but if it is only a

loss on ABR they don't accept that and that is what we have) Anyway all of

the services in town for hearing impaired children is through that school

and so I am really frustrated with that. Anyhow we have made the most out

of what we have, and our speech therapist while working on sounds and sound

awareness, she is most focused on signing and she is one of the few who

actually use ASL which is what we have chosen because it is less complicated

and easier for to understand. He is picking up on it really fast after

his last surgery, we are so excited to see he now only knows 3 signs but

instead of only using them sometimes he uses them all the time and often

uses two together, which is a huge improvement, and he is copying our signs

and understanding what we sigh which isn't something he was able to do

before.

So what is TC program? I haven't heard of that.

We just had 's IEP and because he has little receptive language as far

as sign goes and none without, he can't follow even the simplest directions

and so he scored really low on their tests and they put him into the

preschool severe delay category for school. They noted that his cognitive

development is actually his strong point which we knew, and we also feel

strongly that while before there was a mild delay asside from speech and

language, now we feel that as soon as he gets some good language in him he

will catch up. We think that if he isn't at normal age appropriate level as

far as ability he is close even though he is delayed because he hasn't had

the receptive language to learn as other children his age do. Anyway with

that ruling they are putting him in a class with total communication they

are using ASL, and speech as well as work on pictures and they are going to

give him a communication device. We are hoping that bombarding him with a

ton of options for communication will really help him. deffinately

shows high intellegance it's just he is really stubborn as most 3 year olds

are so sometimes isn't exactly willing to be lead. I really want to be able

to have a conversation with him, that would be the best day for me.

I am one who will try anything as long as it won't hold him back. One old

therapist of ours wanted to strictly focus on pictures and he was too young

to understand that at the time, but not just that she was not working on

sign either. This didn't make me happy since pictures are a good way to

tell us what he wants, but you can't have a picture conversation so in the

long run that is limiting his ability. I am open to try whatever they think

will work but I will not try something I can tell is going to hold him back,

because the end result has to be that he is signing fluently or speeking,

and while the later won't happen before the first that is the goal and

anything that helps us get there is great anything that doesn't is out the

door.

-- AVT and sign