IE and dieting

[Guest guest]

I know - and really appreciate - that IE is not about dieting. But I'm

morbidly obese and can see myself getting to a " diet mentality " because of my

need to take off pounds. Has anyone else had difficulty resolving IE and weight

loss issues?

[Guest guest]

Regarding diet mentality.  Yes, I am having some difficulty with that too.  But as I was reminded, IE is not about taking off weight, but changing a whole way of life and in the process of that you may lose weight. It is not a quick fix.  I can relate though because I feel miserable at my current weight and it also may be affecting my liver(?). I am making progress slowly toward trusting in the process and trusting in myself but it has been hard.  Sandy

 

I know - and really appreciate - that IE is not about dieting. But I'm morbidly obese and can see myself getting to a " diet mentality " because of my need to take off pounds. Has anyone else had difficulty resolving IE and weight loss issues?

[Guest guest]

Regarding diet mentality.  Yes, I am having some difficulty with that too.  But as I was reminded, IE is not about taking off weight, but changing a whole way of life and in the process of that you may lose weight. It is not a quick fix.  I can relate though because I feel miserable at my current weight and it also may be affecting my liver(?). I am making progress slowly toward trusting in the process and trusting in myself but it has been hard.  Sandy

 

I know - and really appreciate - that IE is not about dieting. But I'm morbidly obese and can see myself getting to a " diet mentality " because of my need to take off pounds. Has anyone else had difficulty resolving IE and weight loss issues?

[Guest guest]

Rain - I think that once the stress abates in my life it may be easier to start

IE. I have done IE and I like it: pausing to really taste food, noticing

textures, when I'm full. My problem is I overeat when I'm angry - and I know

that it's not about IE but aggressively " snarfing " . So I'm hoping to get some

kind of balance.

>

> Hi sherry, I've been able to lose weight through IE just by eating when hungry

and stopping when full. That alone cut my food intake by at least half! It

wasn't my intention (primarily), but it's hard not to get elated by that and

weigh more frequently than I should. Knowing that I could eat whatever I wanted

was a huge relief! I also learned that food tastes better when I'm hungry, so

if I become satisfied, knowing that I can continue eating the same food when I

was hungry again really helped. In the beginning, there were two days during

which I only ate berry pie and ice cream! I ate when I was hungry and stopped

when full. You could maybe try that with Mac and cheese.

Rain

>

> IE and dieting

>

>

> I know - and really appreciate - that IE is not about dieting. But I'm

morbidly obese and can see myself getting to a " diet mentality " because of my

need to take off pounds. Has anyone else had difficulty resolving IE and weight

loss issues?

>

[Guest guest]

There's been some great posts about this in the past, particularly one (a LONG one) from our founder, Gillian, about the " need to lose weight. " I really encourage folks to look for this and maybe someone can re-post it... it's truly brilliant.

but one quick comment i'll make is... many or maybe even most of us have felt like we've hit " diet/weight rock bottom " where we felt like, okay, that's it, i cannot mess around any more, i absolutely MUST lose weight. 

and maybe we did successfully lose weight, for a while, or maybe we didn't... but then, somehow, we found ourselves here, probably heavier and more despondent than ever. and once again, at more of a rock bottom than we thought possible.

this is not to say that your concern isn't real or valid... of course it is! and i don't mean to lessen it.what i'm trying to say is in order to create lasting change, we have to make different sorts of changes that we've made in the past. i truly believe that these changes are about changing our relationships with food. and i do not think that you can change your relationship with food and diet at the same time. 

for many of us, this starts with recognizing our hunger and fullness, and eating with regard to these cues (sometimes). in my experience, most folks start with these two things... and have to put the matter of WHAT they eat to the side. indeed, to start out, many learn " just " to recognize these feelings... and decide to eat, anyway, even when they are full, for example. this is an important part of the process! over time, the need to do this will lessen, as your body learns that you won't starve it, or punish it, or feed it things it doesn't want in the name of " health. "  

over time, as you heal yourself emotionally, your eating habits will improve, and you can even focus on " gentle nutrition. " but as long as we eat (or don't eat, for that matter) for emotional reasons, for example, the weight isn't going to stabilize.  

a big and scary step that many of us need to take when starting IE is deciding that we are willing to put weight loss on the back burner to start out, in the name of making true and lasting change. i don't think most of us are ready to do this until we are 100% convinced that nothing else will work... but it's still scary! many of us gain weight with this step... i think it's good to be prepared for that, just in case. it doesn't mean it's permanent, or that it will definitely happen. but if it does, consider it an investment in long term health.

i encourage you to keep posting, and to share your fears and concerns with us. you are definitely not alone with them!all the best,abbyIE since 11/08

[Guest guest]

There's been some great posts about this in the past, particularly one (a LONG one) from our founder, Gillian, about the " need to lose weight. " I really encourage folks to look for this and maybe someone can re-post it... it's truly brilliant.

but one quick comment i'll make is... many or maybe even most of us have felt like we've hit " diet/weight rock bottom " where we felt like, okay, that's it, i cannot mess around any more, i absolutely MUST lose weight. 

and maybe we did successfully lose weight, for a while, or maybe we didn't... but then, somehow, we found ourselves here, probably heavier and more despondent than ever. and once again, at more of a rock bottom than we thought possible.

this is not to say that your concern isn't real or valid... of course it is! and i don't mean to lessen it.what i'm trying to say is in order to create lasting change, we have to make different sorts of changes that we've made in the past. i truly believe that these changes are about changing our relationships with food. and i do not think that you can change your relationship with food and diet at the same time. 

for many of us, this starts with recognizing our hunger and fullness, and eating with regard to these cues (sometimes). in my experience, most folks start with these two things... and have to put the matter of WHAT they eat to the side. indeed, to start out, many learn " just " to recognize these feelings... and decide to eat, anyway, even when they are full, for example. this is an important part of the process! over time, the need to do this will lessen, as your body learns that you won't starve it, or punish it, or feed it things it doesn't want in the name of " health. "  

over time, as you heal yourself emotionally, your eating habits will improve, and you can even focus on " gentle nutrition. " but as long as we eat (or don't eat, for that matter) for emotional reasons, for example, the weight isn't going to stabilize.  

a big and scary step that many of us need to take when starting IE is deciding that we are willing to put weight loss on the back burner to start out, in the name of making true and lasting change. i don't think most of us are ready to do this until we are 100% convinced that nothing else will work... but it's still scary! many of us gain weight with this step... i think it's good to be prepared for that, just in case. it doesn't mean it's permanent, or that it will definitely happen. but if it does, consider it an investment in long term health.

i encourage you to keep posting, and to share your fears and concerns with us. you are definitely not alone with them!all the best,abbyIE since 11/08

[Guest guest]

Thanks Abby -

>

> There's been some great posts about this in the past, particularly one (a

> LONG one) from our founder, Gillian, about the " need to lose weight. "

>

> I really encourage folks to look for this and maybe someone can re-post

> it... it's truly brilliant.

>

> but one quick comment i'll make is... many or maybe even most of us have

> felt like we've hit " diet/weight rock bottom " where we felt like, okay,

> that's it, i cannot mess around any more, i absolutely MUST lose weight.

>

> and maybe we did successfully lose weight, for a while, or maybe we

> didn't... but then, somehow, we found ourselves here, probably heavier and

> more despondent than ever. and once again, at more of a rock bottom than we

> thought possible.

>

> this is not to say that your concern isn't real or valid... of course it is!

> and i don't mean to lessen it.

>

> what i'm trying to say is in order to create lasting change, we have to make

> different sorts of changes that we've made in the past. i truly believe that

> these changes are about changing our relationships with food. and i do not

> think that you can change your relationship with food and diet at the same

> time.

>

> for many of us, this starts with recognizing our hunger and fullness, and

> eating with regard to these cues (sometimes). in my experience, most folks

> start with these two things... and have to put the matter of WHAT they eat

> to the side. indeed, to start out, many learn " just " to recognize these

> feelings... and decide to eat, anyway, even when they are full, for example.

> this is an important part of the process! over time, the need to do this

> will lessen, as your body learns that you won't starve it, or punish it, or

> feed it things it doesn't want in the name of " health. "

>

> over time, as you heal yourself emotionally, your eating habits will

> improve, and you can even focus on " gentle nutrition. "

>

> but as long as we eat (or don't eat, for that matter) for emotional reasons,

> for example, the weight isn't going to stabilize.

>

> a big and scary step that many of us need to take when starting IE is

> deciding that we are willing to put weight loss on the back burner to start

> out, in the name of making true and lasting change. i don't think most of us

> are ready to do this until we are 100% convinced that nothing else will

> work... but it's still scary! many of us gain weight with this step... i

> think it's good to be prepared for that, just in case. it doesn't mean it's

> permanent, or that it will definitely happen. but if it does, consider it an

> investment in long term health.

>

> i encourage you to keep posting, and to share your fears and concerns with

> us. you are definitely not alone with them!

>

> all the best,

>

> abby

> IE since 11/08

>

[Guest guest]

maybe a good place to start would be not about eating at all, but about finding other GOOD coping mechanisms that work for YOU when you are stressed or angry?i'm not going to tell you to take a bubble bath! 

but a lot of folks here find that they eat to cope because they aren't very good at self-care, though they may be GREAT at taking care of others! but maybe that's an area you could start with? 

i definitely agree that you shouldn't take away your coping mechanism while under stress! but maybe working on finding new coping mechanisms also would work?

 

Rain - I think that once the stress abates in my life it may be easier to start IE. I have done IE and I like it: pausing to really taste food, noticing textures, when I'm full. My problem is I overeat when I'm angry - and I know that it's not about IE but aggressively " snarfing " . So I'm hoping to get some kind of balance.

[Guest guest]

Abby,

I hope that this might be helpful to anyone just starting. As you mention, this is where I started - with the eat when I'm hugry stop when I'm full. I have to say that I'm really grateful that I started when I was not having emotional difficulties. This enabled me to get some experience with hunger and satiation under my belt before running into emotional situations that might have caused me not to listen to my hunger.

Recently I had a strong desire to eat when I wasn't hungry, and I remembered that I could acknowledge that I was eating for a reason other than hunger, and if I decided to, I could go ahead and eat without guilt. I followed the guideline in the book, asked myself if I was hungry (no, I wasn't) and asked myself if I was willing to wait until I was hungry, and surprisingly I was (I had expected to say "no" and was prepared to eat)! On this day, I did this about 5 times, and I made the decision that I was willing to wait. And finally, when I wasn't thinking about it, I felt those first little signals of being physically hungry, and I was elated, because now I could eat the thing that I'd been wanting to eat. I was really glad I'd waited, but I wouldn't have been able to do so if I hadn't had the experience of eating when hungry and stopping when full already behind me.

I don't know if I would have said I was willing to wait if there had been some deep emotional difficulty (my cat dying). My cats are 15, and I know their time is coming and I dread it. But I hope, that when that day, or a similar day comes, that I will be OK with allowing myself to eat for emotional reasons if I feel that I must - and being ok with it. I've alread mentioned that in social situations, I've not been able to not eat when not hungry, and I've let that be OK. Would it still be OK if this behavior was causing me to gain weight? I don't know the answer! All I can say is that I'm grateful for what I have now, and that IE has been a huge blessing in my life! All I can do at any time is keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep meeting any challenges the best I can when they arise.

Rain

There's been some great posts about this in the past, particularly one (a LONG one) from our founder, Gillian, about the "need to lose weight."

I really encourage folks to look for this and maybe someone can re-post it... it's truly brilliant.

but one quick comment i'll make is... many or maybe even most of us have felt like we've hit "diet/weight rock bottom" where we felt like, okay, that's it, i cannot mess around any more, i absolutely MUST lose weight.

and maybe we did successfully lose weight, for a while, or maybe we didn't... but then, somehow, we found ourselves here, probably heavier and more despondent than ever. and once again, at more of a rock bottom than we thought possible.

this is not to say that your concern isn't real or valid... of course it is! and i don't mean to lessen it.

what i'm trying to say is in order to create lasting change, we have to make different sorts of changes that we've made in the past. i truly believe that these changes are about changing our relationships with food. and i do not think that you can change your relationship with food and diet at the same time.

for many of us, this starts with recognizing our hunger and fullness, and eating with regard to these cues (sometimes). in my experience, most folks start with these two things... and have to put the matter of WHAT they eat to the side. indeed, to start out, many learn "just" to recognize these feelings... and decide to eat, anyway, even when they are full, for example. this is an important part of the process! over time, the need to do this will lessen, as your body learns that you won't starve it, or punish it, or feed it things it doesn't want in the name of "health."

over time, as you heal yourself emotionally, your eating habits will improve, and you can even focus on "gentle nutrition."

but as long as we eat (or don't eat, for that matter) for emotional reasons, for example, the weight isn't going to stabilize.

a big and scary step that many of us need to take when starting IE is deciding that we are willing to put weight loss on the back burner to start out, in the name of making true and lasting change. i don't think most of us are ready to do this until we are 100% convinced that nothing else will work... but it's still scary! many of us gain weight with this step... i think it's good to be prepared for that, just in case. it doesn't mean it's permanent, or that it will definitely happen. but if it does, consider it an investment in long term health.

i encourage you to keep posting, and to share your fears and concerns with us. you are definitely not alone with them!

all the best,

abby

IE since 11/08

[Guest guest]

What seems to help me stay away from the diet mentality is for me to remember that diets didn't work. If dieting worked, I wouldn't be overweight. So lately any time I'm tempted to 'count' or make a 'diet' choice, I remind myself that it's by dieting that I got here and that only IE is going to fix this. At least that's working for today:0)

Ann

I know - and really appreciate - that IE is not about dieting. But I'm morbidly obese and can see myself getting to a "diet mentality" because of my need to take off pounds. Has anyone else had difficulty resolving IE and weight loss issues?

[Guest guest]

Katcha, I love your analogy! It truly is a journey!

Alana

> I have to learn to

> > trust the wisdom of my body. The reason IE is so hard is that I have to

unlearn

> > all the old programs first.

> >

> > Carole

>

[Guest guest]

Katcha, I love your analogy! It truly is a journey!

Alana

> I have to learn to

> > trust the wisdom of my body. The reason IE is so hard is that I have to

unlearn

> > all the old programs first.

> >

> > Carole

>

[Guest guest]

Good move Ann and so right too.

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> What seems to help me stay away from the diet mentality is for me to remember

that  diets didn't work.  If dieting worked, I wouldn't be overweight.  So

lately any time I'm tempted to 'count' or make a 'diet' choice, I remind myself

that it's by dieting that I got here and that only IE is going to fix this.  At

least that's working for today:0)

> Ann

>

[Guest guest]

Good move Ann and so right too.

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> What seems to help me stay away from the diet mentality is for me to remember

that  diets didn't work.  If dieting worked, I wouldn't be overweight.  So

lately any time I'm tempted to 'count' or make a 'diet' choice, I remind myself

that it's by dieting that I got here and that only IE is going to fix this.  At

least that's working for today:0)

> Ann

>

[Guest guest]

No, I'm not complaining at all. Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes. There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward. I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.RainSubject: Re: IE and dietingTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 12:45

PM

I have found that episodes of cravings do resurface, but it seems that each time is its shorter and less difficult than the last one. IE is not a 'switch' that one can turn 'on' and then all undesired habits immediately turn 'off' (sigh). But progress is made as we continue and keep away from siren song of dieting. Heck, its summer, enjoy ice cream! I had it with some ginger bread for breakfast the other day. Easier than making whipped cream too.

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

> >

> > More cake and ice cream... Eating it when I'm hungry and stopping when I'm full, but I wish I weren't so judgmental about it! I'm really hoping that I crave a nice salad soon!

>

[Guest guest]

Cake for sure! Now I'm getting bake urges too - FUN! :-) :-)

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> No, I'm not complaining at all.  Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am

eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the

deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining

weight) in between dieting episodes.  There's no turning back, and I'll keep

doing what I'm doing - moving forward.  I did have eggs and toast this morning,

but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

> Rain

>

[Guest guest]

hey everyone,i just posted these files on the IE website, under Files: Additional Information.i was surprised no one commented on them... did anyone find them useful? 

best,abbyIE since 11/08, and moderator hat on

Hey everyone,I THINK this is the post from Gillian that I remember from a while back. I also like some of the responses written to her post, so I'm going to add those as well (not in order).

And I'm trying to figure out how make them into files that will always be easily accessible. In the meantime, I've copied and pasted them.Best,Abby

Re: A thought to shareGillian,I agree that putting losing weight on the back burner has to come first. 

However, this is a very long recovery process (In my opinion) - and what do youdo when your health is in jeopardy and any additional weight you gain duringthis learning process puts you in more jeopardy?I have to visit my doctor in 2 weeks. I know I've gained weight and am probably

at my all time high. Last visit, he very gently asked me about considering lapband surgery. I know he's concerned for my health. I know I'm supposed tostand up for what I believe in and I do believe in Intuitive Eating. However,

am I going to end up needing a wheelchair and nitroglycerin in the meantime tillI " get it? " These are my fears.Thank you for offering your support here. I appreciate everyone's feedback. 

I'm sorry I'm not feeling very positive today but hey, at least I'm FEELING!Peaches

RE: Re: A thought to share

Hi Peaches, 

Thank you for being so open and for asking a really important question. And it's a valid concern, so I'm glad you brought it up.

 First, a disclaimer. I am not a doctor or any type of medical professional. I am an exercise physiologist and have extensive learning in health and disease but it's beyond the scope of my credentials to diagnose or advise in an area such as this when it comes to your health condition. Now, that being said, I've looked through some of my books and reference material as well as thinking about it for a while. Here are my thoughts:

 First of all, the majority of people I know or have worked with on IE have their weight stabilize. I never make promises, but the most prevelant pattern I have seen is a little weight gain (10 lbs or so) followed by the weight stabilizing and really not changing for some time. I am very happy with this, because the weight doesn't continue to go up as you are concerned about. It may not feel great to stay at a certain weight while dealing with the process, but most people look back and end up being very grateful that they are not gaining anymore, the yo-yo cycle stops. Sometimes they'll take off some of the weight they gain in the beginning of IE, but everyone is different. I've had a few people lose very soon into the process and I've had some people come to me desperate to lose weight and after working on the head stuff like the relationship with food, self-talk, self-esteem, self-acceptance, etc., they end up being very comfortable with who they are and their weight and it's no longer an issue. So my main point for you is that you may stabilize. I don't know how long you've been working on IE but this could happen. Also, are you sure you've gained weight since seeing the doctor? Sometimes it's imagined due to self-image. I think Latoya's experience that she shared really demonstrates how the weight stabilizes. And she makes a good point, it's easy to be worried about weight gain when you aren't in your usual diet mode, but we all know that weight gain is more likely with a diet.

 Wow, this could get long! So from what you've said, it sounds like you aren't in that real danger zone yet, so stabilization might be a good thing. Now, before I share practical things, I want to tell you some stuff you may already know but it's important to remember so you can keep some perspective. Keep in mind I don't know your medical history, so this applies in general. First, there have been many studies about weight loss and health issues like diabetes, heart disease, pulmonary diseases, etc. Many studies have shown that a mere 10% loss of one's weight can make a significant positive impact on these conditions. I'm not thriilled to share weight loss statistics or studies because it's not our focus and I don't want anyone to get ideas in their heads like, " I'll lose 10 pounds and then come back to IE " . Doesn't work. But I do think it's a very positive finding, you don't need to lose all the extra weight quickly for better health.

 My mentor, who is a registered dietician, has dealt with this many times. She's in Los Angeles so she gets a lot of models, actors, and other entertainers. For their job, they need to lose weight and it's usually just a few pounds. I don't like it, and she doesn't either, but it's real life in those industries (Don't get me started on that!). And of course she also gets people like you who are concerned about health issues. What they do is focus carefully on IE, the hunger and fullness signs, using the hunger scale, really tuning in to the beginning basic stuff. The fact is you don't have to diet or restrict calories. Eat when you are hungry and stop when you are full. Do it consistently and you can return to your natural weight, whatever that might be. It doesn't happen overnight, but it does work (especially when you aren't making the weight loss your reason for working on IE).

 For a few of my clients, when they aren't losing weight and it's been a long time and they've been consistent and have really come a long way in the emotional stuff and diet mentality, this is the same thing that I end up doing with them. We go back to the beginning:

Asking if you're hungry when you want to eatEating when you're hungry and stopping when you are satisfied

Recognize when you want to eat for non-hunger reasons and figure out what is going on and what you really needUsing a diary is very, very helpful (I even go back to one when I find myself not being as mindful). This is of course optional. Don't do it if it feels diety. But you can modify it where you just write down your hunger numbers, or just feelings, or whatever combination feels right. All you want to do is increase your awareness.

Keep practicing feeling your feelings and asking what you really need. Also, ask for what you need! Sometimes it will just be that you need to feel, so go for it!

Remember that these ARE NOT RULES!Another thing that I was thinking was this - is there a chance that your possible weight gain in between doctor appointments was maybe caused by his bringing lap band? Sometimes it's just little things like that. I would think about that and if you think it's possible maybe very gently tell your doctor that you appreciate his concern and you know that he means well but if you're not going to do the procedure, there's no use in talking about it. And if you have the scale battle when you go in, maybe prepare ahead of time to tell them no or at least let you turn around so you don't see and not to tell you (if it bothers you). You have your rights as a patient and they will usually respect that.

 While IE is about eating the foods you like, I would suggest you take a look at what you are eating and see if most of the time it's food that will support you in improving your health, or at least not foods that would be considered as having a negative effect on your health. This is truly self-care, not restriction. Obviously you don't have to be perfect, but consider what will best honor and support your body. Give it what it wants and needs.

 One other thing. I don't know how long you've been doing IE but the length of time is very different for each person. And even then, it really doesn't end, it's a journey. But it always gets better, even the steps back are necessary for making those leaps forward. So much of IE is natural to me and I love it, but I have my moments. I've been dealing with a lot of issues in my personal life and I've found myself wanting to eat. I knew that could happen, even with how long I've been doing well with IE. It's just a reminder for me to step back and focus. IE is all about taking care of yourself, and feeling bad for going back to some old habits isn't self-care.

 Did I beat Sara for length of post? I hope this is helpful to anyone having these issues. Please let me know if anything is confusing or feels contradictory to what you've been learning. I'm happy to keep this conversation going.

 By the way, if we have any RDs or MDs here in the group, please feel free to jump in and share what you know from your practices.

 

Thanks!GillianGillian Hood-son, MS, ACSM

Re: A thought to shareGillian, I love your post about the desire to diet being a need to control from

other things in your life. It so hits the nail on the head for me. I'm alwaysreminded that me feeling bad about my weight or my body is me feeling bad aboutsomething else, really. I know that I've always been obsessed and negative about

my body no matter how thin I was. And I now realize, that that was just mefeeling less than. It wasn't about a number on a scale, or the number on myjeans. It was about me having low self-esteem.I was raised in a very unhealthy environment. My dad was a severe alcoholic who

abused my mother. He was very scary and my home felt unsafe. He also crossedlines that he shouldn't have crossed with us girls. They call it " covert " sexual abuse. We weren't molested, but we felt sexually unsafe to the point

that we piled on clothes to go to sleep at night. (I actually din't realize myolder sister was doing this, too, until we talked about it as adults.) My momhas emotional problems to the point that now she can no longer sit in a waiting

room with other people without having a panic attack. She did the best shecould with us, but she passed down to us her extremely low self-esteem. Nothingless than perfection was ever good enough. If I got an A in school, why wasn't

it an A+. If I was in the top 5% of my class, wny wasn't I number 1. Every artI drew was critiqued on how it could be better. Everything I wrote wascritiqued the same. I craved that acceptance from her, so I strove for total

perfection. Of course, perfection and acceptance never really came, but it'svery hard for me to get past.I see models on television, and it's been hard to get over the idea that I needto compare myself to them. It's a ridiculos notion. Why in the world would I

feel in competition with Angelina Jolie? It's not about logic, it's about thisidea of that ever-elusive perfection.My mom used to always go on and on about me being skinny, but you could tell sheloved it. Of course, she'd still point out my small breats, or the cellulite on

my thighs. I was never just right. Not for her, and not for myself either. Mysisters were always bigger and always down on themselves. She would criticizethem, but she would also spend some time trying to compliment and boost them. 

Now, that I've gained weight, she never compliments me. It hurts my feelings,too. I think she can't stand it that I accept myself this way. I think if Iwere down on myself, and constantly trying to diet, she'd actually be much

kinder.At the deepest level, dieting is about feeling less than for me. It's about alow self-esteem. If I truly loved myself, I wouldn't crave compliments fromother people. It's about controling something in my life, in order to seek that

acceptance, only now I'm seeking acceptance from myself. But changing weightwon't make me love myself.When I started dieting I was 15 years old. I was 5'7 " and weighed 120 pounds. Dieting was certainly not about weight. It was about not ever feeling good

enough, and trying desperately to find something that I eroneously felt I couldcontrol. It was about that high when I realized I could momentarily transformmy body and actually change myself. Since I felt so bad about myself, changing

my very body, my very packaging felt so exhilarating. The only way for me tochange my desire to diet, is to cure the root of the diet in the very firstplace. I have had to learn to adore myself right now.

And that's how I got off the drive to diet. I focused on self-esteem. I accept

and love myself now. I gave up the idea of weight loss. If it comes, fine, ifit doesn't fine. I have to love myself regardless. (This is how I feel most ofthe time. I still dip into negative thoughts, but they've lost a lot of their

power with me.)Every time I start to feel negative about myself, I get all logical about itnow. I was totally illogical before. At work, we were all putting down oursizes for t-shirts, and I was embarrassed that I was one of the only ones to put

down XL. And then I thought, why does that have to be embarassing. It's justletters on a paper. It doesn't change me in the least. And then I startedfocusing on being proud of my substance, my curves, my nice big breasts that'll

fill out that XL t-shirt. I decicided to feel proud of those two lettersinstead. And that made all the difference. I need to treat myself now the wayI craved to be treated as a kid. I need to be proud of every aspect of myself,

and love every aspect of myself.If my self-esteem was the root of my dieting in the first place, then I cannotcure myself of diets without curing my low self-regard.Sorry to go on and on in all my posts about self love. But it's incredibly good

therapy for me. Thanks for all your patience.Sara

Re: A thought to sharePeaches,I know that you addressed this message to Gillian and I am interested in hearing

her response. I've seen this question come up before on the group. And my mindgoes back to a perspective that Katcha has offered many on the group...topractice IE as you can, even if it's one principle at a time.

For me, I focused on honor your hunger and exercise-feel the difference (what Ilike to think of as Move and Feel the Joy), when I started my IE journey. Ididn't focus on legalizing foods so much -- which is what, for me, usually

contributes to people experiencing weight gain in the beginning. Because Iintegrated honor my hunger and a daily movement practice first, my weightcompletely leveled off...no weight loss or weight gain for many months. I

learned when I'm actually hungry...what my physical/biological hunger signalstruly are. I've discovered joy in movement even though my preference is to sitand read a book. Knowing myself in this way has truly benefited my relationship

with myself. Without IE, I always had the fear of gaining weight. So, the factthat I was maintaining was a big deal to me.For me, I know that the only way that I'm going to release excess pounds, in a

way that honors my body, is by practicing IE...honoring my hunger, which

includes recognizing when I'm experiencing mouth hunger and need to comfortmyself without food and specifically finding joyful ways to move everyday. Ihonestly feel like the legalizing food portion of IE is made more easeful by

integrating these two principles first. I haven't been focused on " weight loss " .I've been focused on practicing the IE principles as best as I can. After over ayear and a half of maintaining my weight...YAY!!!...I've just started to notice

my body releasing excess weight that I no longer need because of the skills I'vedeveloped through practicing IE. I would still practice IE, even if I didn'tlose a pound, because of the sanity and wholeness I experience through this

process. I know that felt sanity and wholeness benefits my overall health.I have a friend who had gastric-bypass surgery and who works as a counselor withother women who have had or are thinking about having this surgery. The

long-term success of lap-band and weight loss surgery depends on dealing withthe psychological issues and self-controlling patterns that we get stuck in. So,whether you choose to have lap-band surgery or not, the work of IE needs to

happen anyway.Latoya

Re: A thought to shareSara,Wow. What an absolutely beautiful post. Thank you for sharing your path and

transformation with us. I had a profound moment of insight while reading WhenWomen Stop Hating Their Bodies. One invaluable aspect of this book is it'semphasis on creating a self-caretaker, which I like to call a self-caregiver. I

realized that when I eat for comfort, I have emotionally abandoned myself in thesame way that I felt abandoned in relationship with my mother. Like your mom, mymom did her best. And at the same time, she never learned how to lovingly deal

with her own emotions or be her own accepting caregiver and could therefore notmodel or teach that to me. So, as a core part of your work has been to cure lowself-regard, mine has been to learn how to be with myself when I'm emotionally

overwhelmed without using food. This is intentional personal evolution thatbenefits our relationships and the larger culture. May we all find the root andwork with the root!Latoya:)

[Guest guest]

Tai, that sounds so true for me too.  I have times especially when I am not hungry yet I want to eat especially cake, etc. Having the sweets in the house doesn't seem to be working for me because I don't trust myself.  Once I start eating the sweets I have a hard time stopping even when I am not hungry, but am full.  Still working on this and finding it very frustrating. Sandy

 

In reference to this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Rain, I really admire your courage and willingness to throw yourself into this IE journey.I'm sure it must be scary at times, but having gone through this with tons of resistance at first, I really do think you will move along your pathway that much quicker.

Best,Abby

 No, I'm not complaining at all.  Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes.  There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward.  I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

Rain

[Guest guest]

So the idea of restraint goes along with intuitive eating? If you have to ask yourself if you can wait until you decide to eat again, isn't this a restraining tactic? Isn't a restraining tactic a type of diet? I mean, if you have to think this thing through, why bother with it? Diets are work. And IE is work. Isn't it?

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

Ann, the way that I've dealt with this is, as suggested in the IE book, acknowledge that I want to eat, but ask myself if I'm willing to wait. I've had to ask myself that 4 or 5 times between meals, and have answered "yes." But if I answered "no" then I would eat and let it be OK - just know that I'm eating for a reason other than hunger. When answering "yes" though - eventually, I feel the physical hunger pangs, and I eat whatever it was I wanted.

Rain

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dietingTo: "IntuitiveEating_Support " <IntuitiveEating_Support >Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 8:57 PM

In reference to this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:33 PMSubject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

Rain, I really admire your courage and willingness to throw yourself into this IE journey.

I'm sure it must be scary at times, but having gone through this with tons of resistance at first, I really do think you will move along your pathway that much quicker.

Best,

Abby

No, I'm not complaining at all. Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes. There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward. I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

Rain

[Guest guest]

So the idea of restraint goes along with intuitive eating? If you have to ask yourself if you can wait until you decide to eat again, isn't this a restraining tactic? Isn't a restraining tactic a type of diet? I mean, if you have to think this thing through, why bother with it? Diets are work. And IE is work. Isn't it?

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

Ann, the way that I've dealt with this is, as suggested in the IE book, acknowledge that I want to eat, but ask myself if I'm willing to wait. I've had to ask myself that 4 or 5 times between meals, and have answered "yes." But if I answered "no" then I would eat and let it be OK - just know that I'm eating for a reason other than hunger. When answering "yes" though - eventually, I feel the physical hunger pangs, and I eat whatever it was I wanted.

Rain

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dietingTo: "IntuitiveEating_Support " <IntuitiveEating_Support >Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 8:57 PM

In reference to this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:33 PMSubject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

Rain, I really admire your courage and willingness to throw yourself into this IE journey.

I'm sure it must be scary at times, but having gone through this with tons of resistance at first, I really do think you will move along your pathway that much quicker.

Best,

Abby

No, I'm not complaining at all. Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes. There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward. I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

Rain

[Guest guest]

Katcha, once again, thank you for your insightful post. It causes me to think, But thinking is hard. It requires restraint AND strain (for me at least). I am learning to ask myself what it is I really want and the answers are sometimes hard to come by. I think I want a salad but when the time comes for the real choice, I choose something else. something dangerous; forbidden. Like cream sauce laden junk. I won't call it food becase although it goes in my mouth, I know it's going to clog my arteries more. If I go out, it's almost like seeing a movie with the pictres of the "forbidden" foods flashing at me EVEN IF KNOW THEY ARE NOT GOING TO "HELP" ME. I think: why not? I'm not forbidding anything, so have the junk. why have what's "good" for me? even if I like it? Have the

junky, creamy food instead since I'm not restricting myself. It really is like the childhood (?) dream of throwing myself in that vat of ice cream.

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:27 AMSubject: Re: IE and dieting

Tai, I hear ya gal! And believe me I know that feeling too. And FEELING it is - emotional really, not physical body hunger (you know your stomach is full). If you can, take a slow deep breath and ask yourself exactly WHAT it is that you are wanting. If 'cake' pops up for you, ask yourself what it is that 'cake' will do for you - comfort? how? Perhaps 'cake' is more a reward? For what? Or could it be that while you ate to full stomach level, you didn't really get to eat what you WANTED - cake!?!? This is a BIG IE babystep - pulling the curtain away from the driving factors of non-body hunger. BEST wishes to you.KatchaIEing since March 2007>> > > In reference to

this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

[Guest guest]

Katcha, once again, thank you for your insightful post. It causes me to think, But thinking is hard. It requires restraint AND strain (for me at least). I am learning to ask myself what it is I really want and the answers are sometimes hard to come by. I think I want a salad but when the time comes for the real choice, I choose something else. something dangerous; forbidden. Like cream sauce laden junk. I won't call it food becase although it goes in my mouth, I know it's going to clog my arteries more. If I go out, it's almost like seeing a movie with the pictres of the "forbidden" foods flashing at me EVEN IF KNOW THEY ARE NOT GOING TO "HELP" ME. I think: why not? I'm not forbidding anything, so have the junk. why have what's "good" for me? even if I like it? Have the

junky, creamy food instead since I'm not restricting myself. It really is like the childhood (?) dream of throwing myself in that vat of ice cream.

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:27 AMSubject: Re: IE and dieting

Tai, I hear ya gal! And believe me I know that feeling too. And FEELING it is - emotional really, not physical body hunger (you know your stomach is full). If you can, take a slow deep breath and ask yourself exactly WHAT it is that you are wanting. If 'cake' pops up for you, ask yourself what it is that 'cake' will do for you - comfort? how? Perhaps 'cake' is more a reward? For what? Or could it be that while you ate to full stomach level, you didn't really get to eat what you WANTED - cake!?!? This is a BIG IE babystep - pulling the curtain away from the driving factors of non-body hunger. BEST wishes to you.KatchaIEing since March 2007>> > > In reference to

this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

[Guest guest]

Tai, I don't have any answer for you except to say that I think IE is harder than dieting because at least dieting has set rules to follow.  Depending on internal cues is very difficult. Sandy

 

So the idea of restraint goes along with intuitive eating? If you have to ask yourself if you can wait until you decide to eat again, isn't this a restraining tactic? Isn't a restraining tactic a type of diet? I mean, if you have to think this thing through, why bother with it? Diets are work. And IE is work. Isn't it?

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:35 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Ann, the way that I've dealt with this is, as suggested in the IE book, acknowledge that I want to eat, but ask myself if I'm willing to wait.  I've had to ask myself that 4 or 5 times between meals, and have answered " yes. "  But if I answered " no " then I would eat and let it be OK - just know that I'm eating for a reason other than hunger.  When answering " yes " though - eventually, I feel the physical hunger pangs, and I eat whatever it was I wanted.  

Rain

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

To: " IntuitiveEating_Support " <IntuitiveEating_Support >

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 8:57 PM

In reference to this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Rain, I really admire your courage and willingness to throw yourself into this IE journey.

I'm sure it must be scary at times, but having gone through this with tons of resistance at first, I really do think you will move along your pathway that much quicker.

Best,

Abby

 No, I'm not complaining at all.  Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes.  There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward.  I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

Rain

[Guest guest]

Tai, I don't have any answer for you except to say that I think IE is harder than dieting because at least dieting has set rules to follow.  Depending on internal cues is very difficult. Sandy

 

So the idea of restraint goes along with intuitive eating? If you have to ask yourself if you can wait until you decide to eat again, isn't this a restraining tactic? Isn't a restraining tactic a type of diet? I mean, if you have to think this thing through, why bother with it? Diets are work. And IE is work. Isn't it?

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:35 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Ann, the way that I've dealt with this is, as suggested in the IE book, acknowledge that I want to eat, but ask myself if I'm willing to wait.  I've had to ask myself that 4 or 5 times between meals, and have answered " yes. "  But if I answered " no " then I would eat and let it be OK - just know that I'm eating for a reason other than hunger.  When answering " yes " though - eventually, I feel the physical hunger pangs, and I eat whatever it was I wanted.  

Rain

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

To: " IntuitiveEating_Support " <IntuitiveEating_Support >

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 8:57 PM

In reference to this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Rain, I really admire your courage and willingness to throw yourself into this IE journey.

I'm sure it must be scary at times, but having gone through this with tons of resistance at first, I really do think you will move along your pathway that much quicker.

Best,

Abby

 No, I'm not complaining at all.  Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes.  There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward.  I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

Rain

[Guest guest]

Tai, I don't have any answer for you except to say that I think IE is harder than dieting because at least dieting has set rules to follow.  Depending on internal cues is very difficult. Sandy

 

So the idea of restraint goes along with intuitive eating? If you have to ask yourself if you can wait until you decide to eat again, isn't this a restraining tactic? Isn't a restraining tactic a type of diet? I mean, if you have to think this thing through, why bother with it? Diets are work. And IE is work. Isn't it?

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:35 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Ann, the way that I've dealt with this is, as suggested in the IE book, acknowledge that I want to eat, but ask myself if I'm willing to wait.  I've had to ask myself that 4 or 5 times between meals, and have answered " yes. "  But if I answered " no " then I would eat and let it be OK - just know that I'm eating for a reason other than hunger.  When answering " yes " though - eventually, I feel the physical hunger pangs, and I eat whatever it was I wanted.  

Rain

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

To: " IntuitiveEating_Support " <IntuitiveEating_Support >

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2011, 8:57 PM

In reference to this point, and I, too, appreciate your post, Rain -- right now I'm not hungry. I feel food in my stomach and it needs to be digested. Yet I want to eat. THAT is the struggle I face. I want to eat; I know or don't think I'm hungry -- yet I want to eat. Cake sounds like a lovely idea, but I don't have any in the house, and I'm not hungry. Two strikes against my desire to eat cake right now. And so I won't eat. But I'm not happy about not eating. does this make sense? I wish I could eat. But I can't (and won't) because I'm not hungry. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 7:33 PM

Subject: Re: Re: IE and dieting

 

Rain, I really admire your courage and willingness to throw yourself into this IE journey.

I'm sure it must be scary at times, but having gone through this with tons of resistance at first, I really do think you will move along your pathway that much quicker.

Best,

Abby

 No, I'm not complaining at all.  Eating the cake and ice cream the way I am eating it now, honoring my hunger and satiety, beats the heck out of the deprivation while dieting, or the overeating and stuffing myself (and gaining weight) in between dieting episodes.  There's no turning back, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing - moving forward.  I did have eggs and toast this morning, but I think it's cake for me when I get home.

Rain