Guest guest Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 > SB > > I wasn't aware that PAC's could be felt by taking your pulse. Cleveland > thought they were PVC's > Thor Thor, Absolutely you can feel PACs in your pulse. As far as I know, just by taking your pulse you can't tell the difference between a PAC and a PVC, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I have also seen people in here ask if PVCs felt stronger than PACs when you feel them in your chest/throat/pulse, and other people say their docs have said no, you can't tell them apart that way. I have never gotten around to asking my doc about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Trudy: My wife & I went out to dinner with a physician & his wife last evening. (in addition to being friends, he is also our F.P. Dr.) He told me what you feel when taking a wrist pulse is your ventricles, not your atria's. According to www/a-fib.com website, " when a Dr. or nurse takes your pulse, he/she is counting contractions of your ventricles " . Dr. G further stated atria contractions are almost impossible to detect if you're in AF or a tachycardia NSR, even with a stethoscope. (he actually said you can't hear them, but maybe some Drs/nurses can) Maybe you feel you can tell the difference in your chest, but I don't think it's possible from a wrist pulse, as all you are feeling is the ventricle contraction. Any other opinions out there ? Thor Re: 9 week PVA update > SB > > I wasn't aware that PAC's could be felt by taking your pulse. Cleveland > thought they were PVC's > Thor Thor, Absolutely you can feel PACs in your pulse. As far as I know, just by taking your pulse you can't tell the difference between a PAC and a PVC, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I have also seen people in here ask if PVCs felt stronger than PACs when you feel them in your chest/throat/pulse, and other people say their docs have said no, you can't tell them apart that way. I have never gotten around to asking my doc about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 > Trudy: > > My wife & I went out to dinner with a physician & his wife last evening. (in addition to being friends, he is also our F.P. Dr.) He told me what you feel when taking a wrist pulse is your ventricles, not your atria's. Thor, I think we are actually in agreement. When I say I believe one can detect PACs in the pulse, I mean the " pause " is detected, not that I think I can feel the actual premature beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Trudy But PAC's are Premature Atril Contractions (unless there is some other PAC I'm not aware of) and as such, can't be felt by taking your pulse, since you can't detect atril contractions of any sort via the wrist. If you feel a pause, it's a ventricle pause. It can't be anything else, 'cause you can't feel anything else by wrist. (after a PVC, the ventricle pauses to fill up since the premature contraction came too soon - at least that's my understanding) Any arrhythmia felt by wrist is ventricle in nature, regardless of what it is. I'm not saying your not having PAC's & PVC's, but just that you can't detect PAC's by pulse rate. (BTW, I'm not suggesting you can't tell by PR if you're in AF, I certainly could, but it was the goofy ventricle rate that was the tip-off) If anyone out there thinks I've got this wrong, feel free to correct me. Thor Re: 9 week PVA update > Trudy: > > My wife & I went out to dinner with a physician & his wife last evening. (in addition to being friends, he is also our F.P. Dr.) He told me what you feel when taking a wrist pulse is your ventricles, not your atria's. Thor, I think we are actually in agreement. When I say I believe one can detect PACs in the pulse, I mean the " pause " is detected, not that I think I can feel the actual premature beat. Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com List owner: AFIBsupport-owner For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 In a message dated 18/04/2004 20:45:02 GMT Standard Time, tk_wascow@... writes: <snip My wife & I went out to dinner with a physician & his wife last evening. (in addition to being friends, he is also our F.P. Dr.) He told me what you feel when taking a wrist pulse is your ventricles, not your atria's. >snip Maybe you feel you can tell the difference in your chest, but I don't think it's possible from a wrist pulse, as all you are feeling is the ventricle contraction. =========== That is very interesting Thor, as I could never work out how my chest sometimes feels like I have an army marching on it and yet my wrist pulse is steady and regular, and at a reasonable rate. If the wrist pulse is ventricular beats , this would mean the only accurate pulseometers for A- fibbers would be those that have a band around the chest or the event monitor or holter monitor? Haze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 > Trudy > > But PAC's ... can't be felt by taking your pulse, since you can't detect atril contractions of any sort via the wrist. If you feel a pause, it's a ventricle pause. ...> If anyone out there thinks I've got this wrong, feel free to correct me. > Thor Again (and I am getting tired - no more discussion of this from me after this) the atria drive the ventricles, so a pacs can be reflected in a pause in the pulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Thor, http://www.columbiasurgery.org/divisions/cardiac/dm_tachycardia.html " PACs or extra beats often cause irregular heart rhythms. PACs start in the upper chambers of the heart. A beat occurs early, causing the heart to beat before the next regular heartbeat. If you've ever felt your heart " skip a beat " , it was probably from a PAC. The heart doesn't really skip a beat. Instead an extra beat comes sooner than normal. Then there's a pause that causes the next beat to be more forceful. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 > Trudy > > But PAC's are Premature Atril Contractions (unless there is some other > PAC I'm not aware of) and as such, can't be felt by taking your pulse, > since you can't detect atril contractions of any sort via the wrist. > If you feel a pause, it's a ventricle pause. It can't be anything > else, 'cause you can't feel anything else by wrist. (after a PVC, the > ventricle pauses to fill up since the premature contraction came too > soon - at least that's my understanding) Thor, Trudy is correct, a PAC will result in the ventricles beating out of time - so the result of a PAC can be still felt as a pause (or an early beat). Distinguishing between a PAC and a PVC by feeling your pulse is not possible, they both result in a ventricular contraction out of time. Some PACs (but I believe the minority) are blocked by the AV node and don't get transmitted down to the ventricles but the outcome is still the same - the next ventricular contraction is out of time. So yes, you are feeling pauses/or extra contractions in the ventricles when you take your pulse at the wrist or neck but that is not enough information to say whether the origin was a PAC or a PVC (or the AV node or a re-entrant circuit) -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 > So yes, you are feeling pauses/or extra contractions in the ventricles > when you take your pulse at the wrist or neck but that is not enough > information to say whether the origin was a PAC or a PVC (or the AV node > or a re-entrant circuit) > -- > D .......................... I agree. I've been having PVentricleC's/PAtrialC's for many years. I've had two EP's tell me that the only way to tell for sure what kind of beats they are is to be hooked up to an EKG machine while they're happening. One also told me that PAC's can be a precursor to AFIB. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 > So yes, you are feeling pauses/or extra contractions in the ventricles > when you take your pulse at the wrist or neck but that is not enough > information to say whether the origin was a PAC or a PVC (or the AV node > or a re-entrant circuit) > -- > D .......................... I agree. I've been having PVentricleC's/PAtrialC's for many years. I've had two EP's tell me that the only way to tell for sure what kind of beats they are is to be hooked up to an EKG machine while they're happening. One also told me that PAC's can be a precursor to AFIB. P <MI> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 That was a coincidence ! I had just come off the Polar website after looking at Sports heart rate monitors , when I read your mail and looked at your very interesting readouts from your Polar s810! I have been using only a blood pressure monitor that gives a pulse per minute readout and have decided to look at the Sports HR Monitors, as I have more ectopics at present than anything, and feel 'missed' beats which is actually, as others said, early beats and longer spaces (to put it in layman's terms , lol) than Afib. I found your info clarifying and reassuring, thanks I must admit I'm tempted to purchase a Sports Heart Rate Monitor if only to see as much as your readouts give from your Polar s810. Even though they show only ventricular contractions, they enable you to see visually, (as shown with your links to your ECG -like readings), when other events are occuring elsewhere in the heart. Great links to your 'events' readouts , fascinating! Although Sports Heart rate monitors have been discussed thoroughly, so I do not frustrate anyone, lol, heres a UK link for Cardiosport Heart monitors and one for Polar. _http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/cardiosport.html_ (http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/cardiosport.html) _http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/default.asp_ (http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/default.asp) Haze In a message dated 19/04/2004 03:42:49 GMT Standard Time, james@... writes: Sports heart rate monitors (even top of the range ones) that have a strap around the chest only measure ventricular rate. The top end models will give an accurate measure of your ventricular rate in AF and will show ectopics preceding and event but will still not distinguish between PACs and PVCs. The atria doesn't really beat when it's in AF so the concept of an atrial rate is a little spurious. You'll read anything from 300-600bpm for the atria but the reality is that there is a chaotic quiver rather than anything that can be called a beat. What's important is that your ventricles keep on beating If you are feeling a steady regular pulse at your wrist I think it's very unlikely you are in AF. this is what AF looks like on my heart rate monitor (Polar s810)... http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/AF(bpm).gif (the pulse at my wrist/neck feels very much like the graph looks - very irregular pulses and very irregular intensity) here's the start of an AF with some pauses before hand htp://james.dialsolutions.com/public/AFstart(bpm).gif and here's some ectopics (no idea of it they are PACs or PVCs) http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/ectopics.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 P said: <<One also told me that PAC's can be a precursor to AFIB.>> In my case they definitely are as I look back over the rather exhaustive log I have kept for several years. When the prematures start appearing, AF often follows within hours, many times minutes. Too often to say it is a coincidence, though I have not analyzed it statistically. - OU alum in MI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 > That is very interesting Thor, as I could never work out how my chest > sometimes feels like I have an army marching on it and yet my wrist pulse is steady > and regular, and at a reasonable rate. If the wrist pulse is ventricular > beats , this would mean the only accurate pulseometers for A- fibbers would be > those that have a band around the chest or the event monitor or holter monitor? > Haze > Hi Haze, Sports heart rate monitors (even top of the range ones) that have a strap around the chest only measure ventricular rate. The top end models will give an accurate measure of your ventricular rate in AF and will show ectopics preceding and event but will still not distinguish between PACs and PVCs. The atria doesn't really beat when it's in AF so the concept of an atrial rate is a little spurious. You'll read anything from 300-600bpm for the atria but the reality is that there is a chaotic quiver rather than anything that can be called a beat. What's important is that your ventricles keep on beating If you are feeling a steady regular pulse at your wrist I think it's very unlikely you are in AF. this is what AF looks like on my heart rate monitor (Polar s810)... http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/AF(bpm).gif (the pulse at my wrist/neck feels very much like the graph looks - very irregular pulses and very irregular intensity) here's the start of an AF with some pauses before hand http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/AFstart(bpm).gif and here's some ectopics (no idea of it they are PACs or PVCs) http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/ectopics.gif -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > , fascinating! > Although Sports Heart rate monitors have been discussed thoroughly, so I do > not frustrate anyone, lol, heres a UK link for Cardiosport Heart monitors > and one for Polar. > _http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/cardiosport.html_ > (http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/cardiosport.html) > _http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/default.asp_ > (http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/default.asp) > Haze Hi Haze, I can recommend the uk site - it's where I bought my watch from and they gave me great service. Unfortunately it's only the top end watches which record R-R intervals (the time between ventricular beats) many of the watches - even those that link to a computer often only record averages over certain periods- whilst these may still be useful they wont record the beat to beat fluctuations seen in AF. (I'm sure it's just a money making scam from the watch producers - the only overhead will be the amount for memory in the watch, the lower end models will still have to pick out R-R intervals to calculate averages) The R-R interval provides enough data for my cardiologist to be interested in the print outs. If you want to browse a few more of my events point your browser at this directory http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/ I should throw in a word of warning that the watch is nowhere near as good as an ECG. The data sometimes has a fair amount of noise in it and interpreting some data is often tricky. The PC software has some error correction functions but it's designed for NSR so it's best to not use it. I use ECG gel on my watch strap which greatly reduces the noise on the output but doesn't eliminate it. I wouldn't want you to spend some money and worry that your heart was dropping a lot of beats only to discover later that it's the chest strap that's not recording every beat -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > , fascinating! > Although Sports Heart rate monitors have been discussed thoroughly, so I do > not frustrate anyone, lol, heres a UK link for Cardiosport Heart monitors > and one for Polar. > _http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/cardiosport.html_ > (http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/cardiosport.html) > _http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/default.asp_ > (http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/default.asp) > Haze Hi Haze, I can recommend the uk site - it's where I bought my watch from and they gave me great service. Unfortunately it's only the top end watches which record R-R intervals (the time between ventricular beats) many of the watches - even those that link to a computer often only record averages over certain periods- whilst these may still be useful they wont record the beat to beat fluctuations seen in AF. (I'm sure it's just a money making scam from the watch producers - the only overhead will be the amount for memory in the watch, the lower end models will still have to pick out R-R intervals to calculate averages) The R-R interval provides enough data for my cardiologist to be interested in the print outs. If you want to browse a few more of my events point your browser at this directory http://james.dialsolutions.com/public/ I should throw in a word of warning that the watch is nowhere near as good as an ECG. The data sometimes has a fair amount of noise in it and interpreting some data is often tricky. The PC software has some error correction functions but it's designed for NSR so it's best to not use it. I use ECG gel on my watch strap which greatly reduces the noise on the output but doesn't eliminate it. I wouldn't want you to spend some money and worry that your heart was dropping a lot of beats only to discover later that it's the chest strap that's not recording every beat -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I guess I was taking the discussion too literally as to what " feeling " a PAC meant. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers out there. , my whole point was you can't distinguish a PAC by wrist pulse & apparently you agree. It could be either. End of discussion on my end. Thor Re: Re: 9 week PVA update Snip - Distinguishing between a PAC and a PVC by feeling your pulse is not possible, they both result in a ventricular contraction out of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 I guess I was taking the discussion too literally as to what " feeling " a PAC meant. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers out there. , my whole point was you can't distinguish a PAC by wrist pulse & apparently you agree. It could be either. End of discussion on my end. Thor Re: Re: 9 week PVA update Snip - Distinguishing between a PAC and a PVC by feeling your pulse is not possible, they both result in a ventricular contraction out of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > > > I guess I was taking the discussion too literally as to what " feeling " a PAC meant. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers out there. > > , my whole point was you can't distinguish a PAC by wrist pulse & apparently you agree. It could be either. > > End of discussion on my end. > > Thor > > Re: Re: 9 week PVA update > > Snip - Distinguishing between a PAC and a PVC by feeling your > pulse is not possible, they both result in a ventricular contraction out > of time. Now I need to revisit this. I just got back from an appointment with my new cardiologist. Those of you who have seem my previous wailings know I am having trouble finding a cardiologist here in RI whom I feel comfortable with. He told me two things I'd like a sanity check on: 1. I asked him about the THUMPs I have been feeling a few times a day in my chest, and remarked that some people thought the force meant they were PVCs (vs. PACs) but that what I had heard was that it was impossible to distinguish them without an EKG. He says that's wrong, that the THUMPs are PVCs. What's the word on this people, has anyone else asked their cardiologists about this? 2. My old California cardiologist said I should not be on coumadin, since I was doing well at that point, and I was 59. I was happy not to be on it, since my Mom had had a bad hemorrhage on it. However, if every few months I had some hours of afib or multiple ectopics a minute, she had me come into the office for an ekg and a little talk. When I asked her why, she said if the situations were long enough, she'd want to put me on coumadin, but not cardiovert me because her belief was that I'd always snap back into sinus by myself. The new cardio says that because I have lone afib, my chance of a clot is no greater than someone's without afib, regardless of how long or how frequently I am in afib, so he was not going to put me on coumadin ever until I reached 65. This is a scary difference - is he right? If not, I run a clot risk, esp. with things acting up. Do I wish I could find a good cardiologist. I may drive up to Boston at some point, esp. if things don't get good and solidly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > > > I guess I was taking the discussion too literally as to what " feeling " a PAC meant. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers out there. > > , my whole point was you can't distinguish a PAC by wrist pulse & apparently you agree. It could be either. > > End of discussion on my end. > > Thor > > Re: Re: 9 week PVA update > > Snip - Distinguishing between a PAC and a PVC by feeling your > pulse is not possible, they both result in a ventricular contraction out > of time. Now I need to revisit this. I just got back from an appointment with my new cardiologist. Those of you who have seem my previous wailings know I am having trouble finding a cardiologist here in RI whom I feel comfortable with. He told me two things I'd like a sanity check on: 1. I asked him about the THUMPs I have been feeling a few times a day in my chest, and remarked that some people thought the force meant they were PVCs (vs. PACs) but that what I had heard was that it was impossible to distinguish them without an EKG. He says that's wrong, that the THUMPs are PVCs. What's the word on this people, has anyone else asked their cardiologists about this? 2. My old California cardiologist said I should not be on coumadin, since I was doing well at that point, and I was 59. I was happy not to be on it, since my Mom had had a bad hemorrhage on it. However, if every few months I had some hours of afib or multiple ectopics a minute, she had me come into the office for an ekg and a little talk. When I asked her why, she said if the situations were long enough, she'd want to put me on coumadin, but not cardiovert me because her belief was that I'd always snap back into sinus by myself. The new cardio says that because I have lone afib, my chance of a clot is no greater than someone's without afib, regardless of how long or how frequently I am in afib, so he was not going to put me on coumadin ever until I reached 65. This is a scary difference - is he right? If not, I run a clot risk, esp. with things acting up. Do I wish I could find a good cardiologist. I may drive up to Boston at some point, esp. if things don't get good and solidly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > 1. I asked him about the THUMPs I have been feeling a few times a > day in my chest, and remarked that some people thought the force > meant they were PVCs (vs. PACs) but that what I had heard was that it > was impossible to distinguish them without an EKG. He says that's > wrong, that the THUMPs are PVCs. What's the word on this people, has > anyone else asked their cardiologists about this? I'm afraid I have to disagree with your new cardiologist on this Trudy - I suspect an awful lot of us will testify to feeling these thumps immediately before we go into AF - if we are to believe recent research the majority of these ectopics originate in the pulmonary veins (which will make them PACs). (and a PVC triggering AF would imply some retrograde conduction) I've shown many of my watch recordings to my cardiologist which indicate ectopic beats but not there origin and have been told an ECG would be the way to find out - not quite the same as asking him the question directly but surely he would have said 'well if you feel the ectopic it's a PVC if you don't it's a PAC' I just did a quick web search and found this.. http://home.earthlink.net/~avdoc/infocntr/htrhythm/hrapbs.htm > 2. [sNIP] > The new cardio says that because I have lone afib, my chance of a > clot is no greater than someone's without afib, regardless of how > long or how frequently I am in afib, so he was not going to put me on > coumadin ever until I reached 65. > > This is a scary difference - is he right? If not, I run a clot risk, > esp. with things acting up. I know this a sticky subject for many but this information seems to be in line with a lot of research I've read. You are in charge Trudy, if you are not happy with this decision further research and discussion with your doctor is in order until you are comfortable with whatever route you take. I've made my views clear on many occasions here so I will try to resist any replies to any 'better safe than sorry' responses that you get. As ever I'm not a doctor and nothing in this message should be taken as medical advice but it felt like I crossed a line when I wrote this reply so I'm sticking this in -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 > 1. I asked him about the THUMPs I have been feeling a few times a > day in my chest, and remarked that some people thought the force > meant they were PVCs (vs. PACs) but that what I had heard was that it > was impossible to distinguish them without an EKG. He says that's > wrong, that the THUMPs are PVCs. What's the word on this people, has > anyone else asked their cardiologists about this? I'm afraid I have to disagree with your new cardiologist on this Trudy - I suspect an awful lot of us will testify to feeling these thumps immediately before we go into AF - if we are to believe recent research the majority of these ectopics originate in the pulmonary veins (which will make them PACs). (and a PVC triggering AF would imply some retrograde conduction) I've shown many of my watch recordings to my cardiologist which indicate ectopic beats but not there origin and have been told an ECG would be the way to find out - not quite the same as asking him the question directly but surely he would have said 'well if you feel the ectopic it's a PVC if you don't it's a PAC' I just did a quick web search and found this.. http://home.earthlink.net/~avdoc/infocntr/htrhythm/hrapbs.htm > 2. [sNIP] > The new cardio says that because I have lone afib, my chance of a > clot is no greater than someone's without afib, regardless of how > long or how frequently I am in afib, so he was not going to put me on > coumadin ever until I reached 65. > > This is a scary difference - is he right? If not, I run a clot risk, > esp. with things acting up. I know this a sticky subject for many but this information seems to be in line with a lot of research I've read. You are in charge Trudy, if you are not happy with this decision further research and discussion with your doctor is in order until you are comfortable with whatever route you take. I've made my views clear on many occasions here so I will try to resist any replies to any 'better safe than sorry' responses that you get. As ever I'm not a doctor and nothing in this message should be taken as medical advice but it felt like I crossed a line when I wrote this reply so I'm sticking this in -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 , when you said: I know this a sticky subject for many but this information seems to be in line with a lot of research I've read. I wasn't sure if by " this information is in line with research " you meant the take coumadin advice or not take coumadin advice :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 , when you said: I know this a sticky subject for many but this information seems to be in line with a lot of research I've read. I wasn't sure if by " this information is in line with research " you meant the take coumadin advice or not take coumadin advice :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 In a message dated 4/19/04 5:01:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trudyjh@... writes: > Do I wish I could find a good cardiologist. I may drive up to Boston > at some point, esp. if things don't get good and solidly better. > > Trudy, who are you seeing in RI? Rich O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 > , when you said: > > I know this a sticky subject for many but this information seems to be > in line with a lot of research I've read. > > I wasn't sure if by " this information is in line with research " you > meant the take coumadin advice or not take coumadin advice :-) > I meant that lone AFers under 65 with no other risk factors are at such a low stroke risk that coumadin is not indicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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