Re: A-Fib: This Is All New To Me.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/6/2004 10:56:09 PM Central Standard Time,

fhyndman@... writes:

Is

there anyone who can tell me what vitamins are safe to take

while on these meds? I have never taken drugs before and have

always used alternative medicine. Am thankful that there is

something to help me, but I still want to follow my normal health

routine of vitamins, minerals and herbs. Any help and advice

would be appreciated. Thanks. Faith

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I believe the main effect of vitamins,etc is the vitamin k effect on coumadin

dosage. Vitamin k is a blood coagulant and fights the effect of the coumadin.

However; if you take the same dose of vitamin k every day, the dose level of

coumadin will be adjusted to account for it.

Guy

[Guest guest]

Faith - Presume that's your name not your way of signing off. I

agree with Guy, the main thing to watch out for is vitamin k. You

don't want that going up and down. Most multi vitamins contain

vitamin k (I think) so if you're taking them daily you should be

okay. I don't know but it occurs to me that some herbs could also

contain vitamin k, so you'll want to become aware of what you're

taking. Sticking with your regular regimine is probably okay, but it

would be a good idea to run it by your doctors. Could be you're over

doing something.

Ed in VA

[Guest guest]

Faith - Presume that's your name not your way of signing off. I

agree with Guy, the main thing to watch out for is vitamin k. You

don't want that going up and down. Most multi vitamins contain

vitamin k (I think) so if you're taking them daily you should be

okay. I don't know but it occurs to me that some herbs could also

contain vitamin k, so you'll want to become aware of what you're

taking. Sticking with your regular regimine is probably okay, but it

would be a good idea to run it by your doctors. Could be you're over

doing something.

Ed in VA

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ed. My multi doesn't have V-K in it. I've been told that I can

continue to eat what I've been eating and that the coumadin dose will be

adjusted. Has anyone tried naturally occuring blood thinners in an attempt to

lower the coumadin dose? I understand CoQ10 and V-E will do that. Faith

[Guest guest]

> Has anyone tried naturally occuring blood thinners in an attempt to

lower the coumadin dose? I understand CoQ10 and V-E will do that.

Faith

*****************************************************

Faith - Think I'd be real careful of that, certainly talk it over

with your doctor. My docs, for instance, say no aspirin or ibuprofen

while on coumadin. They act as blood thinners too, but apparently

act on the blood in a different way. Not sure what you'd gain by

lowering the coumadin dose. Your goal is to get your blood INR into

the theraputic range of 2-3.

Ed in VA

P.S. When I asked what to take for a headache I was told tylenol was

okay.

[Guest guest]

> Has anyone tried naturally occuring blood thinners in an attempt to

lower the coumadin dose? I understand CoQ10 and V-E will do that.

Faith

*****************************************************

Faith - Think I'd be real careful of that, certainly talk it over

with your doctor. My docs, for instance, say no aspirin or ibuprofen

while on coumadin. They act as blood thinners too, but apparently

act on the blood in a different way. Not sure what you'd gain by

lowering the coumadin dose. Your goal is to get your blood INR into

the theraputic range of 2-3.

Ed in VA

P.S. When I asked what to take for a headache I was told tylenol was

okay.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/2004 2:16:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,

JPindorski@... writes:

<< It makes me

wonder what the heck will happen if I cut myself working around the

house. >>

,

My older brother in permanent afib who just started Coumadin a year ago tells

me that he had much more trouble with bleeding when he was just taking one

aspirin a day than he has now in taking just Coumadin. Perhaps you could ask

your doctor about lowering the dose of the aspirin while still taking it?

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/2004 2:43:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,

fhyndman@... writes:

<< I, too, wonder what it would be like while on coumadin if this should

happen. Guess I'll have to stop cooking <g> Faith

>>

Faith,

Like my older brother in permanent afib, I have found that aspirin seems to

cause more actual bleeding than does Coumadin. If you are not taking Coumadin,

I wouldn't worry about having to take it in the future because you may find

as we have that aspirin causes more bleeding than Coumadin. I have had many

bumps, falls, and scrapes while on Coumadin, but none have presented a serious

problem. On the other hand, when I was taking just aspirin, I unceremoniously

descended a flight of stairs on my rear end rather than my feet, thanks to my

obstreperous dog who caught me by surprise and pulled me down the stairs. I

bled profusely under the skin and wound up with a huge hematoma which my doctor

said could be dangerous if I developed infection in it. I didn't develop

infection but suffered untold misery with it. I have had similarly spectacular

falls since I have been on Coumadin, compliments of the same dog, but have not

had such serious bleeding but rather just bruises. I was scared to death of

Coumadin before I started it because I had heard such horror stories, but like

my brother, I really can't see why so many think it is such a problem. My

cardiologist told me that I could go on with any activity while on Coumadin, but

he didn't recommend rock climbing. :-) Of course, everyone is different, so

some people obviously may have problems with Coumadin that my brother and I

have escaped.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/2004 2:43:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,

fhyndman@... writes:

<< I, too, wonder what it would be like while on coumadin if this should

happen. Guess I'll have to stop cooking <g> Faith

>>

Faith,

Like my older brother in permanent afib, I have found that aspirin seems to

cause more actual bleeding than does Coumadin. If you are not taking Coumadin,

I wouldn't worry about having to take it in the future because you may find

as we have that aspirin causes more bleeding than Coumadin. I have had many

bumps, falls, and scrapes while on Coumadin, but none have presented a serious

problem. On the other hand, when I was taking just aspirin, I unceremoniously

descended a flight of stairs on my rear end rather than my feet, thanks to my

obstreperous dog who caught me by surprise and pulled me down the stairs. I

bled profusely under the skin and wound up with a huge hematoma which my doctor

said could be dangerous if I developed infection in it. I didn't develop

infection but suffered untold misery with it. I have had similarly spectacular

falls since I have been on Coumadin, compliments of the same dog, but have not

had such serious bleeding but rather just bruises. I was scared to death of

Coumadin before I started it because I had heard such horror stories, but like

my brother, I really can't see why so many think it is such a problem. My

cardiologist told me that I could go on with any activity while on Coumadin, but

he didn't recommend rock climbing. :-) Of course, everyone is different, so

some people obviously may have problems with Coumadin that my brother and I

have escaped.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/04 5:30:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

playsthe88s@... writes:

Funny...some docs say yes to aspirin and others say no while on

coumadin. Must be an individual thing. My doc said no.

I find that if I brush too hard and start to bleed, rinsing with

very cold water for a while will stop it.

I wonder, too, about cutting myself as I (used to) like doing odd

jobs around the house (I own a lot of power tools) but also tend to

be somewhat of a klutz (I have stitches all over my body to prove

it!). I really miss doing it, but the thought really scares me now.

***************************

take up cooking and cut very carefully.....safer than power tools if

your a kluts...lol

a in Massachusetts NSR Toprol XL 100 X 2 Adult Aspirin

[Guest guest]

My docs, for instance, say no aspirin or ibuprofen

> while on coumadin. They act as blood thinners too, but apparently

> act on the blood in a different way.

> Ed in VA

............................................

Ed, my EP and cardiologist have given me specific instructions not to

stop taking my aspirin. After I had a stent put in last August the

also put me on Plavix which is also a thinner. After I had a 12 hour

tooth bleed after brushing my teeth one morning I questioned whether

I was on too many and they told my no. My IRN was 2.2 and they told

keep taking all three and don't brush my teeth so hard. It makes me

wonder what the heck will happen if I cut myself working around the

house.

P <MI>

[Guest guest]

My docs, for instance, say no aspirin or ibuprofen

> while on coumadin. They act as blood thinners too, but apparently

> act on the blood in a different way.

> Ed in VA

............................................

Ed, my EP and cardiologist have given me specific instructions not to

stop taking my aspirin. After I had a stent put in last August the

also put me on Plavix which is also a thinner. After I had a 12 hour

tooth bleed after brushing my teeth one morning I questioned whether

I was on too many and they told my no. My IRN was 2.2 and they told

keep taking all three and don't brush my teeth so hard. It makes me

wonder what the heck will happen if I cut myself working around the

house.

P <MI>

[Guest guest]

> Ed, my EP and cardiologist have given me specific instructions not

to

> stop taking my aspirin. After I had a stent put in last August

the

> also put me on Plavix which is also a thinner. After I had a 12

hour

> tooth bleed after brushing my teeth one morning I questioned

whether

> I was on too many and they told my no. My IRN was 2.2 and they

told

> keep taking all three and don't brush my teeth so hard. It makes

me

> wonder what the heck will happen if I cut myself working around

the

> house.

> P <MI>

Hi ,

Funny...some docs say yes to aspirin and others say no while on

coumadin. Must be an individual thing. My doc said no.

I find that if I brush too hard and start to bleed, rinsing with

very cold water for a while will stop it.

I wonder, too, about cutting myself as I (used to) like doing odd

jobs around the house (I own a lot of power tools) but also tend to

be somewhat of a klutz (I have stitches all over my body to prove

it!). I really miss doing it, but the thought really scares me now.

[Guest guest]

Ed, The way I understand it is that there are some supplements that will act

the same as coumadin and their influence will be reflected in the INR helping to

keep us at the theraputic range of 2-3. This is all new to me. I am having my

coumadin level tested once a week at this point and will follow their advice.

I hate the thought of having to take such potent meds. Does anyone ever relax

over all this? Thanks for your advice. I will be sure to discuss with my

doctors. They, too, said to only take tylenol for pain relief. Does it sound

like I'm understanding you correctly? Faith

*****************************************************

Faith - Think I'd be real careful of that, certainly talk it over

with your doctor.  My docs, for instance, say no aspirin or ibuprofen

while on coumadin.  They act as blood thinners too, but apparently

act on the blood in a different way.  Not sure what you'd gain by

lowering the coumadin dose.  Your goal is to get your blood INR into

the theraputic range of 2-3.

Ed in VA

P.S. When I asked what to take for a headache I was told tylenol was

okay.

[Guest guest]

Ed, The way I understand it is that there are some supplements that will act

the same as coumadin and their influence will be reflected in the INR helping to

keep us at the theraputic range of 2-3. This is all new to me. I am having my

coumadin level tested once a week at this point and will follow their advice.

I hate the thought of having to take such potent meds. Does anyone ever relax

over all this? Thanks for your advice. I will be sure to discuss with my

doctors. They, too, said to only take tylenol for pain relief. Does it sound

like I'm understanding you correctly? Faith

*****************************************************

Faith - Think I'd be real careful of that, certainly talk it over

with your doctor.  My docs, for instance, say no aspirin or ibuprofen

while on coumadin.  They act as blood thinners too, but apparently

act on the blood in a different way.  Not sure what you'd gain by

lowering the coumadin dose.  Your goal is to get your blood INR into

the theraputic range of 2-3.

Ed in VA

P.S. When I asked what to take for a headache I was told tylenol was

okay.

[Guest guest]

After 3 years on coumadin (and being a registered klutz) I can verify that

you'll stop bleeding...eventually.

Cat scratches, razor cuts, the normal dings of everyday life -- they all cause

bleeding, but not lots. (although my wife gets awfully tired of the little

blood spots that end up on the sheets and pillowcases when a little scab gets

displaced in my sleep.

Even fairly major cuts are survivable. Scalp wounds are notorious bleeders. I

ran my head into the corner of a heating duct in my half basement. Much blood

on the carpet in the finished part of the basement. We wrapped a towel around

my head for a trip to emergency. At the end of the day it was a 12 stitch

adventure with an 8 inch by 1/4 inch gouge. I'm bald and tall anyway, so the

long term damage isn't readily apparent unless I'm sitting down.

Bottom line -- I bled like mad for a few hours, lost enough blood to soak the

bathtowel and the sweatshirt I was wearing, felt like a fool (I now wear a

bicycle helmet when I go into that part of the basement), but didn't need a

transfusion or a clotting agent and have no long term effects.

This is just another of the things that I've chosen to selectively ignore --

that is, when it's a problem, I deal with it; when it's a potential problem, I

do my best to forget about it.

Bill Manson

" Where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket? " -- Bumper sticker

[Guest guest]

> Ed, The way I understand it is that there are some supplements

that will act the same as coumadin and their influence will be

reflected in the INR helping to keep us at the theraputic range of 2-

3. (snip) Does it sound like I'm understanding you correctly? Faith

********************************************************

Faith - Sounds to me like you are right on target. My first time

around with coumadin I drank martinis regularly. The alcohol

enhanced the coumadin effect. Curious to see my first test results

now that I'm dry as a bone. That first time around, I had bruises

(not really your normal bruises, just bleeding just below the skin

surface that didn't break thru) from doing ordinary things. I could

count on a couple new ones each time I mowed the lawn. Cut myself

shaving (never switched to an electric razon, as was recommended) and

I was late for an appointment. Once I nicked the top of my ear with

a comb or hairbrush and bled for an hour or more. So your concerns

are warranted; we have to be careful. I once asked here how many

people wore medical bracelets letting emergency care givers know they

were on coumadin. I didn't, but many did. Might make an interesting

poll.

Ed

[Guest guest]

> After 3 years on coumadin (and being a registered klutz) I can

verify that you'll stop bleeding...eventually.

>

> Cat scratches, razor cuts, the normal dings of everyday life --

they all cause bleeding, but not lots. (although my wife gets

awfully tired of the little blood spots that end up on the sheets and

pillowcases when a little scab gets displaced in my sleep.

>

> Even fairly major cuts are survivable. Scalp wounds are notorious

bleeders. I ran my head into the corner of a heating duct in my half

basement. Much blood on the carpet in the finished part of the

basement. We wrapped a towel around my head for a trip to

emergency. At the end of the day it was a 12 stitch adventure with

an 8 inch by 1/4 inch gouge. I'm bald and tall anyway, so the long

term damage isn't readily apparent unless I'm sitting down.

>

> Bottom line -- I bled like mad for a few hours, lost enough blood

to soak the bathtowel and the sweatshirt I was wearing, felt like a

fool (I now wear a bicycle helmet when I go into that part of the

basement), but didn't need a transfusion or a clotting agent and have

no long term effects.

>

> This is just another of the things that I've chosen to selectively

ignore -- that is, when it's a problem, I deal with it; when it's a

potential problem, I do my best to forget about it.

>

>

> Bill Manson

>

> " Where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket? " --

Bumper sticker

*****************************

Bill - Loved your story, and especially the bumper sticker. Ed

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/7/2004 4:59:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, esmock@...

writes:

<< Bill - Loved your story, and especially the bumper sticker. Ed >>

Bill,

I'll second that opinion. It was a great story.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

Faith - I take Vit C, Vit E, fish oil, folic acid and magnesium.. both regular

and citrate .. that's it for vitamins.

But in reference to the choice of ablation or amiodarone... there are a bunch of

good drugs out there for afib, and I'm not sure that giving up after just trying

two is the way to go.

I was on Cardizem for a few years, and just recently had a long afib session,

and they put me on Tikosyn in addition to the Cardizem.... so far so good, with

no side effects!

stef

buckstone2001 wrote:

Hello Everyone, I have recently been diagnosed with A-Fib. It is

a freightening experience to go through as I " m sure you all know.

My cardiologist first put me on sotalol but it didn't work for me.

After breaking through twice, they put me back in the hospital and

switched me to amiodarone and coumadin. I have been in

sinus rythym for a full week now. They have said that if I don't

hold on this medicine, I will have to consider Ablation. In fact,

they said that amiodarone is not something I should be on for a

long period of time and that Ablation will probably be necessary

eventually. For now I am praying that I stay in sinus rythym. Is

there anyone who can tell me what vitamins are safe to take

while on these meds? I have never taken drugs before and have

always used alternative medicine. Am thankful that there is

something to help me, but I still want to follow my normal health

routine of vitamins, minerals and herbs. Any help and advice

would be appreciated. Thanks. Faith

Backup web page - http://afibsupport.proboards23.com

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Faith - I take Vit C, Vit E, fish oil, folic acid and magnesium.. both regular

and citrate .. that's it for vitamins.

But in reference to the choice of ablation or amiodarone... there are a bunch of

good drugs out there for afib, and I'm not sure that giving up after just trying

two is the way to go.

I was on Cardizem for a few years, and just recently had a long afib session,

and they put me on Tikosyn in addition to the Cardizem.... so far so good, with

no side effects!

stef

buckstone2001 wrote:

Hello Everyone, I have recently been diagnosed with A-Fib. It is

a freightening experience to go through as I " m sure you all know.

My cardiologist first put me on sotalol but it didn't work for me.

After breaking through twice, they put me back in the hospital and

switched me to amiodarone and coumadin. I have been in

sinus rythym for a full week now. They have said that if I don't

hold on this medicine, I will have to consider Ablation. In fact,

they said that amiodarone is not something I should be on for a

long period of time and that Ablation will probably be necessary

eventually. For now I am praying that I stay in sinus rythym. Is

there anyone who can tell me what vitamins are safe to take

while on these meds? I have never taken drugs before and have

always used alternative medicine. Am thankful that there is

something to help me, but I still want to follow my normal health

routine of vitamins, minerals and herbs. Any help and advice

would be appreciated. Thanks. Faith

Backup web page - http://afibsupport.proboards23.com

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Faith - I take Vit C, Vit E, fish oil, folic acid and magnesium.. both regular

and citrate .. that's it for vitamins.

But in reference to the choice of ablation or amiodarone... there are a bunch of

good drugs out there for afib, and I'm not sure that giving up after just trying

two is the way to go.

I was on Cardizem for a few years, and just recently had a long afib session,

and they put me on Tikosyn in addition to the Cardizem.... so far so good, with

no side effects!

stef

buckstone2001 wrote:

Hello Everyone, I have recently been diagnosed with A-Fib. It is

a freightening experience to go through as I " m sure you all know.

My cardiologist first put me on sotalol but it didn't work for me.

After breaking through twice, they put me back in the hospital and

switched me to amiodarone and coumadin. I have been in

sinus rythym for a full week now. They have said that if I don't

hold on this medicine, I will have to consider Ablation. In fact,

they said that amiodarone is not something I should be on for a

long period of time and that Ablation will probably be necessary

eventually. For now I am praying that I stay in sinus rythym. Is

there anyone who can tell me what vitamins are safe to take

while on these meds? I have never taken drugs before and have

always used alternative medicine. Am thankful that there is

something to help me, but I still want to follow my normal health

routine of vitamins, minerals and herbs. Any help and advice

would be appreciated. Thanks. Faith

Backup web page - http://afibsupport.proboards23.com

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

---------------------------------