Latest T3 level--comments needed

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

I understand now why the T3 was about the same. I forgot about the 18mcg in the

2 grains of NT. So I'm really taking about the same amount of T3, 38mcgs with 10

Cytomel and 2 grains prior, and 37.5mcg just Cytomel right now.

Maybe you can help me a little more. These were my values in the past and the

doses of hormone I took or didn't take. I'm really trying to figure out what to

do. To go back to Nature thyroid, like ERFA for now, or take just Cytomel.

11/08 (no hormones)

FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

TSH: 1.580

Cortisol: 17.0

ACTH: 9

Another board told me my ACTH of 9 and low FT4 and somewhat high TSH indicated

hypopit and I would need good doses of HC for life. I went to holistic doctor to

get HC and Armour.

Then after 1 grain of Armour and 15mg of HC:

FT4: 1.17 (.93-1.7)

FT3: 3.1

Then after 1.5 grains of Armour and 15mg of HC:

FT4: 1.32

FT3: 3.4

So the T4 went up but the T3 not by much.

Then the doctor took the RT3 and found it over the range at 390 and he added

10mcg of Cytomel. Then in two months the RT3 came down 217 points.

Then I switched doctors and was give Synthroid 100mcg and 25mcg of Cytomel which

he said I could up to 37.5, so I did. The synthroid made me crazy so after 3

weeks or so I stopped and just used the Cytomel. Then I got my latest result

with the very low T4.

Through all this I've felt the same. Although my skin is now a bit better, my

fingernails lost that red ragged look to them and some muscle pain is better,

but I feel stiff and achy still most of the time, and freezing cold a lot of the

time too.

Should I go back to the NT, like ERFA and work up to 3-4 grains as my first

holistic MD wouldn't let me get higher than 1.5 grains. This doctor I have now

may. Or should I just stay on Cytomel with no T4 at all?

And what do you think about the first lab results and the hypopit diagnosis I

got from a few people on another board?

Sorry so long, Val. I'm really trying to figure the best way to go. When I had

the high reverse T3 I read Dr. Lowe, and this board, and felt I should take the

Cytomel and get up to a good dose. But now I'm not so sure. My RT3 did come down

217 points with just 10mcg more of Cytomel added to 2 grains over the summer, so

maybe I could be fine on 3-4 grains of NT?

>

> So is the Ft4 very low because I stopped the Synthroid and was taking only the

37.5mcg of Cytomel?

>

> A) Your body was converting as fast as it could but the extra T3 was coming

from conversion of T4 to T3 which it does nto have now,.

>

> And, another question. My Free T3 was also 3.6 back on August while taking

only 10mcg of Cytomel and 2 grains of NT. Why would it be the same level on

higher dose of Cytomel?

>

> A) Because you had some conversion from the T4 in the NT and ther eis 18 mcg

T3 in 2 grains as well.

>

> Is it because back in August the T4 in the 2 grains was converting more to the

Reverse? And, even while on the Synthroid for a short time, maybe more of it was

converting to Reverse?

>

> A) I don;t knwo

>

> Still waiting on the Reverse T3 level from the lab.

>

> I'm stumped as to why my Free T3 is the same number on the lower dose of

Cytomel and the current 37.5mcg?

>

> Also my ferritin level dropped 3 points on the same 50mg of Iron a day. Maybe

I should increase that to 75mg? The level came back 47.

>

> A) YES it takes a ton of iron to raise Ferritin levels.

>

> And the D barely nudged either over 3 months on 6000 iu a day. It went from 46

to 59. Maybe I should increase to 8000 iu of D?

>

> A) It took me 10000IU a day for over a year to go from 29 to 89 it sems ot

take lot of ti when you do nto get much sun.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

I understand now why the T3 was about the same. I forgot about the 18mcg in the

2 grains of NT. So I'm really taking about the same amount of T3, 38mcgs with 10

Cytomel and 2 grains prior, and 37.5mcg just Cytomel right now.

Maybe you can help me a little more. These were my values in the past and the

doses of hormone I took or didn't take. I'm really trying to figure out what to

do. To go back to Nature thyroid, like ERFA for now, or take just Cytomel.

11/08 (no hormones)

FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

TSH: 1.580

Cortisol: 17.0

ACTH: 9

Another board told me my ACTH of 9 and low FT4 and somewhat high TSH indicated

hypopit and I would need good doses of HC for life. I went to holistic doctor to

get HC and Armour.

Then after 1 grain of Armour and 15mg of HC:

FT4: 1.17 (.93-1.7)

FT3: 3.1

Then after 1.5 grains of Armour and 15mg of HC:

FT4: 1.32

FT3: 3.4

So the T4 went up but the T3 not by much.

Then the doctor took the RT3 and found it over the range at 390 and he added

10mcg of Cytomel. Then in two months the RT3 came down 217 points.

Then I switched doctors and was give Synthroid 100mcg and 25mcg of Cytomel which

he said I could up to 37.5, so I did. The synthroid made me crazy so after 3

weeks or so I stopped and just used the Cytomel. Then I got my latest result

with the very low T4.

Through all this I've felt the same. Although my skin is now a bit better, my

fingernails lost that red ragged look to them and some muscle pain is better,

but I feel stiff and achy still most of the time, and freezing cold a lot of the

time too.

Should I go back to the NT, like ERFA and work up to 3-4 grains as my first

holistic MD wouldn't let me get higher than 1.5 grains. This doctor I have now

may. Or should I just stay on Cytomel with no T4 at all?

And what do you think about the first lab results and the hypopit diagnosis I

got from a few people on another board?

Sorry so long, Val. I'm really trying to figure the best way to go. When I had

the high reverse T3 I read Dr. Lowe, and this board, and felt I should take the

Cytomel and get up to a good dose. But now I'm not so sure. My RT3 did come down

217 points with just 10mcg more of Cytomel added to 2 grains over the summer, so

maybe I could be fine on 3-4 grains of NT?

>

> So is the Ft4 very low because I stopped the Synthroid and was taking only the

37.5mcg of Cytomel?

>

> A) Your body was converting as fast as it could but the extra T3 was coming

from conversion of T4 to T3 which it does nto have now,.

>

> And, another question. My Free T3 was also 3.6 back on August while taking

only 10mcg of Cytomel and 2 grains of NT. Why would it be the same level on

higher dose of Cytomel?

>

> A) Because you had some conversion from the T4 in the NT and ther eis 18 mcg

T3 in 2 grains as well.

>

> Is it because back in August the T4 in the 2 grains was converting more to the

Reverse? And, even while on the Synthroid for a short time, maybe more of it was

converting to Reverse?

>

> A) I don;t knwo

>

> Still waiting on the Reverse T3 level from the lab.

>

> I'm stumped as to why my Free T3 is the same number on the lower dose of

Cytomel and the current 37.5mcg?

>

> Also my ferritin level dropped 3 points on the same 50mg of Iron a day. Maybe

I should increase that to 75mg? The level came back 47.

>

> A) YES it takes a ton of iron to raise Ferritin levels.

>

> And the D barely nudged either over 3 months on 6000 iu a day. It went from 46

to 59. Maybe I should increase to 8000 iu of D?

>

> A) It took me 10000IU a day for over a year to go from 29 to 89 it sems ot

take lot of ti when you do nto get much sun.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

11/08 (no hormones)

FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

TSH: 1.580

Cortisol: 17.0

ACTH: 9

wHAT TIME OF DAY Wwere these done? That makes a HUGE differnce, And with cortios

ALMOST high enough (for women I like it to be 20 for men 25) at 8AM btu this

drops rapidly after then. SO if done at 9:30-10ASM it is not off at all. ACTH of

9 is nto abnormal unless cortilw is low.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

11/08 (no hormones)

FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

TSH: 1.580

Cortisol: 17.0

ACTH: 9

wHAT TIME OF DAY Wwere these done? That makes a HUGE differnce, And with cortios

ALMOST high enough (for women I like it to be 20 for men 25) at 8AM btu this

drops rapidly after then. SO if done at 9:30-10ASM it is not off at all. ACTH of

9 is nto abnormal unless cortilw is low.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

It was 8:30 a.m. when those first tests were taken. So 17.0 for cortisol seems

low then because it will drop even more later? And the 9 ACTH is not abnormal?

It was in the Low column on the report, but the endo MD said all those numbers

were fine.

I've always wondered about these initial labs prior to taking any HC and

thyroid.

I had many of the low thyroid symptoms, but I'm also peri stage too and maybe I

never needed any HC or thyroid, and just needed to get my estrogen/progesterone

more balanced?

>

> 11/08 (no hormones)

> FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

> TSH: 1.580

> Cortisol: 17.0

> ACTH: 9

>

> wHAT TIME OF DAY Wwere these done? That makes a HUGE differnce, And with

cortios ALMOST high enough (for women I like it to be 20 for men 25) at 8AM btu

this drops rapidly after then. SO if done at 9:30-10ASM it is not off at all.

ACTH of 9 is nto abnormal unless cortilw is low.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

OK at 8:30 the cortios is too low but not horrible and the ACTH ois WAY

lower than it should be which tells us your issue is probably NOT

adrneal but pituitary dysfunction. BTW I htink abotu 3/4 of adrenal

fatoigue is HPA dysfunciton rather than just adrenals being fatigued, in

fact very few people seem to have a normal H & P that have weak

adrenals. In your situation have you done the slaiva cortils testing?

This would show the extend of the dysfunction better than the serum levels.,

FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

> TSH: 1.580

YES you need thyroid. There is MILES of differnce in how you feel with a FT4 of

..97 and 1.4 where it should be. And the low thyroid is what is causing the lwo

HPA function.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

Ok. So this is what a few others said to me as well. They thought

hypopituitary. Three doctors said no to that even my holistic doctor who started

me on the Armour and HC. And he said he didn't want me to go higher than 10mg of

HC and to use OTC adrenal support.

I went up to 15mg on my own by buying HC online. Then since June I went to 20mg.

But then I was diagnosed with esophagitis and that doctor said no HC at all, but

I kept at 20 and I'm now weaning down and trying to get off.

But if it's hypopit, then I really do need the HC all the time and maybe higher

dose?

Well no saliva done. But since I'm weaning, maybe I need to go all the way and

wean off and then do saliva. Isn't that the way? How long does one need to be

off HC before testing saliva?

And those initial T4 is thyroid problem as well. So okay, I'm glad I got another

opinion on these numbers.

I'm waiting to get some ERFA, but in the meantime my doctor said if I'm off the

Synthroid than I should go up to 75mcg of Cytomel. I'm currently steady at

37.5mcg, is taking double the dose right away smart? Maybe not if I'm still

adrenally challenged and don't really know it yet. I think he feels since no

synthroid is there to convert some to T3, then I should take more T3.

Is this the right thing to do or should I stick with the synthroid until my Erfa

comes? It did cause me bad mood swings and depression after only 4 weeks so I

stopped it.

Many thanks, Val.

>

> OK at 8:30 the cortios is too low but not horrible and the ACTH ois WAY

> lower than it should be which tells us your issue is probably NOT

> adrneal but pituitary dysfunction. BTW I htink abotu 3/4 of adrenal

> fatoigue is HPA dysfunciton rather than just adrenals being fatigued, in

> fact very few people seem to have a normal H & P that have weak

> adrenals. In your situation have you done the slaiva cortils testing?

> This would show the extend of the dysfunction better than the serum levels.,

>

> FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

> > TSH: 1.580

>

> YES you need thyroid. There is MILES of differnce in how you feel with a FT4

of .97 and 1.4 where it should be. And the low thyroid is what is causing the

lwo HPA function.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

Ok. So this is what a few others said to me as well. They thought

hypopituitary. Three doctors said no to that even my holistic doctor who started

me on the Armour and HC. And he said he didn't want me to go higher than 10mg of

HC and to use OTC adrenal support.

I went up to 15mg on my own by buying HC online. Then since June I went to 20mg.

But then I was diagnosed with esophagitis and that doctor said no HC at all, but

I kept at 20 and I'm now weaning down and trying to get off.

But if it's hypopit, then I really do need the HC all the time and maybe higher

dose?

Well no saliva done. But since I'm weaning, maybe I need to go all the way and

wean off and then do saliva. Isn't that the way? How long does one need to be

off HC before testing saliva?

And those initial T4 is thyroid problem as well. So okay, I'm glad I got another

opinion on these numbers.

I'm waiting to get some ERFA, but in the meantime my doctor said if I'm off the

Synthroid than I should go up to 75mcg of Cytomel. I'm currently steady at

37.5mcg, is taking double the dose right away smart? Maybe not if I'm still

adrenally challenged and don't really know it yet. I think he feels since no

synthroid is there to convert some to T3, then I should take more T3.

Is this the right thing to do or should I stick with the synthroid until my Erfa

comes? It did cause me bad mood swings and depression after only 4 weeks so I

stopped it.

Many thanks, Val.

>

> OK at 8:30 the cortios is too low but not horrible and the ACTH ois WAY

> lower than it should be which tells us your issue is probably NOT

> adrneal but pituitary dysfunction. BTW I htink abotu 3/4 of adrenal

> fatoigue is HPA dysfunciton rather than just adrenals being fatigued, in

> fact very few people seem to have a normal H & P that have weak

> adrenals. In your situation have you done the slaiva cortils testing?

> This would show the extend of the dysfunction better than the serum levels.,

>

> FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

> > TSH: 1.580

>

> YES you need thyroid. There is MILES of differnce in how you feel with a FT4

of .97 and 1.4 where it should be. And the low thyroid is what is causing the

lwo HPA function.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

One more question re the ACTH:

A few months ago the endo doctor tested the ACTH again. I also went

went around 8:30 and it was 42 (so much higher), but also at that time the

technician screwed up the needle and it fell out and i was bleeding everywhere

until she stopped it and pricked me again. Do you think the ACTH was normal

again, or was it high because of the blood fiasco and maybe I was, and I'm sure

I was, nervous at that moment.

>

> OK at 8:30 the cortios is too low but not horrible and the ACTH ois WAY

> lower than it should be which tells us your issue is probably NOT

> adrneal but pituitary dysfunction. BTW I htink abotu 3/4 of adrenal

> fatoigue is HPA dysfunciton rather than just adrenals being fatigued, in

> fact very few people seem to have a normal H & P that have weak

> adrenals. In your situation have you done the slaiva cortils testing?

> This would show the extend of the dysfunction better than the serum levels.,

>

> FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

> > TSH: 1.580

>

> YES you need thyroid. There is MILES of differnce in how you feel with a FT4

of .97 and 1.4 where it should be. And the low thyroid is what is causing the

lwo HPA function.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

One more question re the ACTH:

A few months ago the endo doctor tested the ACTH again. I also went

went around 8:30 and it was 42 (so much higher), but also at that time the

technician screwed up the needle and it fell out and i was bleeding everywhere

until she stopped it and pricked me again. Do you think the ACTH was normal

again, or was it high because of the blood fiasco and maybe I was, and I'm sure

I was, nervous at that moment.

>

> OK at 8:30 the cortios is too low but not horrible and the ACTH ois WAY

> lower than it should be which tells us your issue is probably NOT

> adrneal but pituitary dysfunction. BTW I htink abotu 3/4 of adrenal

> fatoigue is HPA dysfunciton rather than just adrenals being fatigued, in

> fact very few people seem to have a normal H & P that have weak

> adrenals. In your situation have you done the slaiva cortils testing?

> This would show the extend of the dysfunction better than the serum levels.,

>

> FT4: 0.97 (.93-1.7)

> > TSH: 1.580

>

> YES you need thyroid. There is MILES of differnce in how you feel with a FT4

of .97 and 1.4 where it should be. And the low thyroid is what is causing the

lwo HPA function.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

Yes you can wean off the HC and be off it at least 2 weeks before

testing saliva. I woudl not double the T3 dose all at once. That si a

guaranteed way to crash weak adrneals. You can slowly raise it a bti at

a time to cover what you might have been gettign from T4 conversion.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

Stress causes an instantaneous rush of ACTH cortisl and adrenaline. I

woud not use those results as meaningful except to showe that your body

CAN produce it in an emergency.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

I think this is my new plan. I will wean off the HC and then ask for a saliva

test. But I'm thinking maybe while I'm weaning off the HC I should just wean off

thyroid too. What do you think?

Taking the Cytomel w/o any adrenal support may not be wise if I'm not sure if

I'm hypopit, right? If I need this HC and at higher doses, then taking thyroid

w/o it may not be smart.

I probably shouldn't be going up on Cytomel slowly and going down on HC to come

off entirely, do you think?

>

> Yes you can wean off the HC and be off it at least 2 weeks before

> testing saliva. I woudl not double the T3 dose all at once. That si a

> guaranteed way to crash weak adrneals. You can slowly raise it a bti at

> a time to cover what you might have been gettign from T4 conversion.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

Thanss, . This is what I was thinking. So at least my body will produce

in emergency, that's good, yes? So my initial ACTH of 9 is probably more valid

of something off. But 3 doctors didn't think so and it was in the Lo column too.

I just don't understand that.

>

> Stress causes an instantaneous rush of ACTH cortisl and adrenaline. I

> woud not use those results as meaningful except to showe that your body

> CAN produce it in an emergency.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

NO it is not good to raise T3 whiel coming off HC.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

NO it is not good to raise T3 whiel coming off HC.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

I have seen endo after endo ignore LWO levels of both ACTH and cortisl

because it si " in range " which is sinful! They are nbot taught abotu LOW

levels just good and 's like nothing in between exists. When in

truth that is where MANY peopl4e fall.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

I have seen endo after endo ignore LWO levels of both ACTH and cortisl

because it si " in range " which is sinful! They are nbot taught abotu LOW

levels just good and 's like nothing in between exists. When in

truth that is where MANY peopl4e fall.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

Okay. Thanks for all this help .

Do you think I should just come off everything for awhile? Do people do that and

go back on?

I want to do the cortisol saliva for sure so if I have to wean off that

entirely, maybe I need to stop the cytomel too.

>

> I have seen endo after endo ignore LWO levels of both ACTH and cortisl

> because it si " in range " which is sinful! They are nbot taught abotu LOW

> levels just good and 's like nothing in between exists. When in

> truth that is where MANY peopl4e fall.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

When in doubt starting over is sometimes the best option.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

When in doubt starting over is sometimes the best option.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

November 10, 2009

I think starting over is the way to go. Although maybe I should wait until after

the holidays, don't want any episodes with family, LOL.

But, yes, I must start over.

>

> When in doubt starting over is sometimes the best option.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

November 10, 2009

I think starting over is the way to go. Although maybe I should wait until after

the holidays, don't want any episodes with family, LOL.

But, yes, I must start over.

>

> When in doubt starting over is sometimes the best option.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>