Marlena

[Guest guest]

Marlena,

Congratulations on the loss.

Then, there is hope for me! LOL

dwen

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, Dwen, there's hope for us all :-) It always tickled me when I would

read posts from people talking about how they were in a stall because they

hadn't lost in a week. I would think to myself " a week? heck, try not

losing for months! " LOL.

Keep on keepin on... that's the best we can do. Even during the tough times

when it appears it isn't working.

-Marlena

>

>Reply-To: Atkins_Support_List

>To: Atkins_Support_List

>Subject: Marlena

>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:34:45 -0400

>

>Marlena,

>

>Congratulations on the loss.

>

>Then, there is hope for me! LOL

>

>dwen

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I think..you may try to get labs tested without the t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Ok y'all, so I finally got my most recent thyroidresults in but I'm not sure where to go from here. Mydoctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure testfrom a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hrurine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount ofhormone your body is actually using ... anyway hereare my results:11/2004 (before treatment):T3 621 range 800-1800T4 1698 range 1800-30007/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get theresults!)T3 894 range 800-1800T4 3124 range 1800-3000So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on 3grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3. (Iwas actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcgof SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over amonth ago), but soon after felt so bad and eventuallyoverstimulated that I cut way

back) ... I know myconsistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cutback -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so itseemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probablygood ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive whois helping me to figure things out a bit -- she toldme that the 25 mcg was way too high (which correlatedwith my symptoms -- which for me was a feverishfeeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not extraenergy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense withmy low T3 test result. It would seem that my bodywould want more T3... from my results I'm guessingthat my original thyroid production is down to zero oralmost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was .011)... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on nomedication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to becompletely dependent on something that isn't evenworking for me! I've done all the research and beenthe model patient -- doing

everything I'm supposed tobe doing ... I really don't know where to go fromhere. I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhanceconversion too ...My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive aboutwhere I should go from here ...The weird thing is that I feel worse than before Istarted treatment ... and my latest adrenal testresults seem to show that my adrenals are actuallydoing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation testto check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk tothe lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2 24hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown ofall the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to dothis for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as towhy I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm goingcrazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm notnearly as functional as before ...]Every

adrenal hormone in the test increased by a goodamount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed todo -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number tobegin with but then it went down just a little afterthe stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but whatI don't understand is that apparently the more saltyou eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone'sjob is to keep salt in your body, so the more you eat,the less is needed. Therefore I would think thathaving the surge of cortisol after the test wouldincrease salt retention and therefore loweraldosterone -- like happened with me -- however itsays that it is supposed to increase so ... doesanyone know about this?I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult torespond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...Marlena __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay

connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

~EG Connecticut Total-T 16 months ago / 37.5 mg Synthetic/120mg Armour since August 7th __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I think..you may try to get labs tested without the t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Ok y'all, so I finally got my most recent thyroidresults in but I'm not sure where to go from here. Mydoctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure testfrom a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hrurine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount ofhormone your body is actually using ... anyway hereare my results:11/2004 (before treatment):T3 621 range 800-1800T4 1698 range 1800-30007/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get theresults!)T3 894 range 800-1800T4 3124 range 1800-3000So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on 3grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3. (Iwas actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcgof SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over amonth ago), but soon after felt so bad and eventuallyoverstimulated that I cut way

back) ... I know myconsistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cutback -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so itseemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probablygood ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive whois helping me to figure things out a bit -- she toldme that the 25 mcg was way too high (which correlatedwith my symptoms -- which for me was a feverishfeeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not extraenergy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense withmy low T3 test result. It would seem that my bodywould want more T3... from my results I'm guessingthat my original thyroid production is down to zero oralmost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was .011)... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on nomedication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to becompletely dependent on something that isn't evenworking for me! I've done all the research and beenthe model patient -- doing

everything I'm supposed tobe doing ... I really don't know where to go fromhere. I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhanceconversion too ...My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive aboutwhere I should go from here ...The weird thing is that I feel worse than before Istarted treatment ... and my latest adrenal testresults seem to show that my adrenals are actuallydoing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation testto check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk tothe lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2 24hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown ofall the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to dothis for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as towhy I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm goingcrazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm notnearly as functional as before ...]Every

adrenal hormone in the test increased by a goodamount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed todo -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number tobegin with but then it went down just a little afterthe stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but whatI don't understand is that apparently the more saltyou eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone'sjob is to keep salt in your body, so the more you eat,the less is needed. Therefore I would think thathaving the surge of cortisol after the test wouldincrease salt retention and therefore loweraldosterone -- like happened with me -- however itsays that it is supposed to increase so ... doesanyone know about this?I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult torespond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...Marlena __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay

connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

~EG Connecticut Total-T 16 months ago / 37.5 mg Synthetic/120mg Armour since August 7th __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I think..you may try to get labs tested without the t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Ok y'all, so I finally got my most recent thyroidresults in but I'm not sure where to go from here. Mydoctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure testfrom a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hrurine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount ofhormone your body is actually using ... anyway hereare my results:11/2004 (before treatment):T3 621 range 800-1800T4 1698 range 1800-30007/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get theresults!)T3 894 range 800-1800T4 3124 range 1800-3000So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on 3grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3. (Iwas actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcgof SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over amonth ago), but soon after felt so bad and eventuallyoverstimulated that I cut way

back) ... I know myconsistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cutback -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so itseemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probablygood ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive whois helping me to figure things out a bit -- she toldme that the 25 mcg was way too high (which correlatedwith my symptoms -- which for me was a feverishfeeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not extraenergy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense withmy low T3 test result. It would seem that my bodywould want more T3... from my results I'm guessingthat my original thyroid production is down to zero oralmost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was .011)... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on nomedication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to becompletely dependent on something that isn't evenworking for me! I've done all the research and beenthe model patient -- doing

everything I'm supposed tobe doing ... I really don't know where to go fromhere. I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhanceconversion too ...My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive aboutwhere I should go from here ...The weird thing is that I feel worse than before Istarted treatment ... and my latest adrenal testresults seem to show that my adrenals are actuallydoing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation testto check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk tothe lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2 24hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown ofall the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to dothis for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as towhy I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm goingcrazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm notnearly as functional as before ...]Every

adrenal hormone in the test increased by a goodamount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed todo -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number tobegin with but then it went down just a little afterthe stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but whatI don't understand is that apparently the more saltyou eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone'sjob is to keep salt in your body, so the more you eat,the less is needed. Therefore I would think thathaving the surge of cortisol after the test wouldincrease salt retention and therefore loweraldosterone -- like happened with me -- however itsays that it is supposed to increase so ... doesanyone know about this?I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult torespond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...Marlena __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay

connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

~EG Connecticut Total-T 16 months ago / 37.5 mg Synthetic/120mg Armour since August 7th __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean get

labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to add

Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4 is

already too high ... if anything, I think I should add

T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I find

out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handle

more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do blood

tests and he has with me -- I reported my antibodies,

TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's just

that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular lab

is the most reliable indicator and I have to say, it

has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on

2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as much

of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn't

know I was having a problem converting from those

tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems to

reflect that the best! Please do share with me your

thoughts though, I am always interested and open to

hearing other's perspectives.

Marlena

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> I think..you may try to get labs tested without the

> t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need

> to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

>

> Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I

> hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you

> need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

>

> ~E:)

>

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Ok y'all, so

> I finally got my most recent thyroid

> results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.

> My

> doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> test

> from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hr

> urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount of

> hormone your body is actually using ... anyway here

> are my results:

>

> 11/2004 (before treatment):

> T3 621 range 800-1800

> T4 1698 range 1800-3000

>

> 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get

> the

> results!)

> T3 894 range 800-1800

> T4 3124 range 1800-3000

>

> So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on

> 3

> grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3.

> (I

> was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcg

> of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a

> month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> eventually

> overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my

> consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cut

> back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so it

> seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probably

> good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive

> who

> is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she told

> me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> correlated

> with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> extra

> energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> with

> my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body

> would want more T3... from my results I'm guessing

> that my original thyroid production is down to zero

> or

> almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> .011)

> ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no

> medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be

> completely dependent on something that isn't even

> working for me! I've done all the research and been

> the model patient -- doing everything I'm supposed

> to

> be doing ... I really don't know where to go from

> here.

> I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhance

> conversion too ...

>

> My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> about

> where I should go from here ...

>

> The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I

> started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> results seem to show that my adrenals are actually

> doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation test

> to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk

> to

> the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2

> 24

> hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown

> of

> all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to

> do

> this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as

> to

> why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> going

> crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for

> 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm not

> nearly as functional as before ...]

>

> Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> good

> amount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed

> to

> do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number

> to

> begin with but then it went down just a little after

> the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> what

> I don't understand is that apparently the more salt

> you eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone's

> job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you

> eat,

> the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> having the surge of cortisol after the test would

> increase salt retention and therefore lower

> aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it

> says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> anyone know about this?

>

> I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult

> to

> respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

>

> Marlena

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Yahoo! Mail

> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the

> tour:

> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean get

labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to add

Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4 is

already too high ... if anything, I think I should add

T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I find

out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handle

more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do blood

tests and he has with me -- I reported my antibodies,

TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's just

that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular lab

is the most reliable indicator and I have to say, it

has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on

2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as much

of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn't

know I was having a problem converting from those

tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems to

reflect that the best! Please do share with me your

thoughts though, I am always interested and open to

hearing other's perspectives.

Marlena

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> I think..you may try to get labs tested without the

> t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need

> to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

>

> Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I

> hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you

> need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

>

> ~E:)

>

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Ok y'all, so

> I finally got my most recent thyroid

> results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.

> My

> doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> test

> from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hr

> urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount of

> hormone your body is actually using ... anyway here

> are my results:

>

> 11/2004 (before treatment):

> T3 621 range 800-1800

> T4 1698 range 1800-3000

>

> 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get

> the

> results!)

> T3 894 range 800-1800

> T4 3124 range 1800-3000

>

> So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on

> 3

> grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3.

> (I

> was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcg

> of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a

> month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> eventually

> overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my

> consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cut

> back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so it

> seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probably

> good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive

> who

> is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she told

> me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> correlated

> with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> extra

> energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> with

> my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body

> would want more T3... from my results I'm guessing

> that my original thyroid production is down to zero

> or

> almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> .011)

> ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no

> medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be

> completely dependent on something that isn't even

> working for me! I've done all the research and been

> the model patient -- doing everything I'm supposed

> to

> be doing ... I really don't know where to go from

> here.

> I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhance

> conversion too ...

>

> My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> about

> where I should go from here ...

>

> The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I

> started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> results seem to show that my adrenals are actually

> doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation test

> to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk

> to

> the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2

> 24

> hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown

> of

> all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to

> do

> this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as

> to

> why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> going

> crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for

> 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm not

> nearly as functional as before ...]

>

> Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> good

> amount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed

> to

> do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number

> to

> begin with but then it went down just a little after

> the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> what

> I don't understand is that apparently the more salt

> you eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone's

> job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you

> eat,

> the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> having the surge of cortisol after the test would

> increase salt retention and therefore lower

> aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it

> says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> anyone know about this?

>

> I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult

> to

> respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

>

> Marlena

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Yahoo! Mail

> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the

> tour:

> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marlena:

Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last night after I went to bed and realized I may have been a little clumsy in my response to you.

I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I was trying to come with possible reason for that. I reread your post...so many times and thought it said you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and that your urine results were indicator of that? No?

Gosh! I'm sorry.

Still when someone takes just a small amout of synthetic they don't typtically get your results...so I thought perhaps there was a further cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up the results...and see if you could capture the hidden pattern and respond to it.

Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

Its really important to not look at whether the tests say you are hyper. You have to go by symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

What are your symptoms specifically Marlena? I LOVE your name by the way. Very pretty.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Hi E,Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean getlabs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to addArmour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4 isalready too high ... if anything, I think I should addT3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I findout for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handlemore T3. My doctor is more than willing to do bloodtests and he has with me -- I reported my antibodies,TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's justthat he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular labis the most reliable indicator and I have to say, ithas reflected how I feel more than the blood testshave. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as muchof a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn'tknow I was having a problem converting

from thosetests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems toreflect that the best! Please do share with me yourthoughts though, I am always interested and open tohearing other's perspectives.Marlena--- E Gillespie wrote:> I think..you may try to get labs tested without the> t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need> to do a lot more Armour before you get well.> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I> hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you> need a different doc who will run bloods instead.> > ~E:)> > > > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all, so> I finally got my most recent thyroid> results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.> My> doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure>

test> from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hr> urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount of> hormone your body is actually using ... anyway here> are my results:> > 11/2004 (before treatment):> T3 621 range 800-1800> T4 1698 range 1800-3000> > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get> the> results!)> T3 894 range 800-1800> T4 3124 range 1800-3000> > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on> 3> grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3.> (I> was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcg> of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a> month ago), but soon after felt so bad and> eventually> overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my> consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cut> back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long

life so it> seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probably> good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive> who> is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she told> me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which> correlated> with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish> feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not> extra> energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense> with> my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body> would want more T3... from my results I'm guessing> that my original thyroid production is down to zero> or> almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was> .011)> ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no> medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be> completely dependent on something that isn't even> working for me! I've done all the research and been> the model patient

-- doing everything I'm supposed> to> be doing ... I really don't know where to go from> here. > I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhance> conversion too ...> > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive> about> where I should go from here ...> > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I> started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test> results seem to show that my adrenals are actually> doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation test> to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk> to> the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2> 24> hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown> of> all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to> do> this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as> to> why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm>

going> crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for> 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm not> nearly as functional as before ...]> > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a> good> amount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed> to> do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number> to> begin with but then it went down just a little after> the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but> what> I don't understand is that apparently the more salt> you eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone's> job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you> eat,> the less is needed. Therefore I would think that> having the surge of cortisol after the test would> increase salt retention and therefore lower> aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it> says that it is supposed to increase so ...

does> anyone know about this?> > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult> to> respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...> > Marlena> > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the> tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > > >

[Guest guest]

Marlena:

Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last night after I went to bed and realized I may have been a little clumsy in my response to you.

I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I was trying to come with possible reason for that. I reread your post...so many times and thought it said you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and that your urine results were indicator of that? No?

Gosh! I'm sorry.

Still when someone takes just a small amout of synthetic they don't typtically get your results...so I thought perhaps there was a further cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up the results...and see if you could capture the hidden pattern and respond to it.

Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

Its really important to not look at whether the tests say you are hyper. You have to go by symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

What are your symptoms specifically Marlena? I LOVE your name by the way. Very pretty.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Hi E,Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean getlabs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to addArmour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4 isalready too high ... if anything, I think I should addT3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I findout for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handlemore T3. My doctor is more than willing to do bloodtests and he has with me -- I reported my antibodies,TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's justthat he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular labis the most reliable indicator and I have to say, ithas reflected how I feel more than the blood testshave. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as muchof a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn'tknow I was having a problem converting

from thosetests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems toreflect that the best! Please do share with me yourthoughts though, I am always interested and open tohearing other's perspectives.Marlena--- E Gillespie wrote:> I think..you may try to get labs tested without the> t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need> to do a lot more Armour before you get well.> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I> hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you> need a different doc who will run bloods instead.> > ~E:)> > > > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all, so> I finally got my most recent thyroid> results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.> My> doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure>

test> from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hr> urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount of> hormone your body is actually using ... anyway here> are my results:> > 11/2004 (before treatment):> T3 621 range 800-1800> T4 1698 range 1800-3000> > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get> the> results!)> T3 894 range 800-1800> T4 3124 range 1800-3000> > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on> 3> grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3.> (I> was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcg> of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a> month ago), but soon after felt so bad and> eventually> overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my> consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cut> back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long

life so it> seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probably> good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive> who> is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she told> me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which> correlated> with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish> feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not> extra> energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense> with> my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body> would want more T3... from my results I'm guessing> that my original thyroid production is down to zero> or> almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was> .011)> ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no> medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be> completely dependent on something that isn't even> working for me! I've done all the research and been> the model patient

-- doing everything I'm supposed> to> be doing ... I really don't know where to go from> here. > I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhance> conversion too ...> > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive> about> where I should go from here ...> > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I> started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test> results seem to show that my adrenals are actually> doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation test> to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk> to> the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2> 24> hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown> of> all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to> do> this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as> to> why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm>

going> crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for> 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm not> nearly as functional as before ...]> > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a> good> amount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed> to> do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number> to> begin with but then it went down just a little after> the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but> what> I don't understand is that apparently the more salt> you eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone's> job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you> eat,> the less is needed. Therefore I would think that> having the surge of cortisol after the test would> increase salt retention and therefore lower> aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it> says that it is supposed to increase so ...

does> anyone know about this?> > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult> to> respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...> > Marlena> > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the> tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > > >

[Guest guest]

Marlena:

Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last night after I went to bed and realized I may have been a little clumsy in my response to you.

I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I was trying to come with possible reason for that. I reread your post...so many times and thought it said you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and that your urine results were indicator of that? No?

Gosh! I'm sorry.

Still when someone takes just a small amout of synthetic they don't typtically get your results...so I thought perhaps there was a further cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up the results...and see if you could capture the hidden pattern and respond to it.

Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

Its really important to not look at whether the tests say you are hyper. You have to go by symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

What are your symptoms specifically Marlena? I LOVE your name by the way. Very pretty.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Hi E,Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean getlabs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to addArmour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4 isalready too high ... if anything, I think I should addT3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I findout for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handlemore T3. My doctor is more than willing to do bloodtests and he has with me -- I reported my antibodies,TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's justthat he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular labis the most reliable indicator and I have to say, ithas reflected how I feel more than the blood testshave. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as muchof a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn'tknow I was having a problem converting

from thosetests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems toreflect that the best! Please do share with me yourthoughts though, I am always interested and open tohearing other's perspectives.Marlena--- E Gillespie wrote:> I think..you may try to get labs tested without the> t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need> to do a lot more Armour before you get well.> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I> hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you> need a different doc who will run bloods instead.> > ~E:)> > > > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all, so> I finally got my most recent thyroid> results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.> My> doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure>

test> from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24 hr> urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount of> hormone your body is actually using ... anyway here> are my results:> > 11/2004 (before treatment):> T3 621 range 800-1800> T4 1698 range 1800-3000> > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get> the> results!)> T3 894 range 800-1800> T4 3124 range 1800-3000> > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm on> 3> grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release T3.> (I> was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and 25mcg> of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a> month ago), but soon after felt so bad and> eventually> overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my> consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to cut> back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long

life so it> seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was probably> good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive> who> is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she told> me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which> correlated> with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish> feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not> extra> energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense> with> my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body> would want more T3... from my results I'm guessing> that my original thyroid production is down to zero> or> almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was> .011)> ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no> medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be> completely dependent on something that isn't even> working for me! I've done all the research and been> the model patient

-- doing everything I'm supposed> to> be doing ... I really don't know where to go from> here. > I do all the things one is supposed to do to enhance> conversion too ...> > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive> about> where I should go from here ...> > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I> started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test> results seem to show that my adrenals are actually> doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation test> to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk> to> the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the 2> 24> hr urine collection results which tests a breakdown> of> all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able to> do> this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as> to> why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm>

going> crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment for> 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm not> nearly as functional as before ...]> > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a> good> amount after the stimulation -- which it's supposed> to> do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number> to> begin with but then it went down just a little after> the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but> what> I don't understand is that apparently the more salt> you eat, the lower the aldosterone ... aldosterone's> job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you> eat,> the less is needed. Therefore I would think that> having the surge of cortisol after the test would> increase salt retention and therefore lower> aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it> says that it is supposed to increase so ...

does> anyone know about this?> > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult> to> respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...> > Marlena> > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the> tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi E, thanks for your letter. I'll respond in text:

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> Marlena:

>

> Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last

> night after I went to bed and realized I may have

> been a little clumsy in my response to you.

>

> I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I

> was trying to come with possible reason for that. I

> reread your post...so many times and thought it said

> you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and

> that your urine results were indicator of that? No?

>

> Gosh! I'm sorry.

No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! And

no, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only taken

natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained release

T3.

> Still when someone takes just a small amout of

> synthetic they don't typtically get your

> results...so I thought perhaps there was a further

> cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

>

> Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour

> and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up

> the results...and see if you could capture the

> hidden pattern and respond to it.

This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and find

out the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It's

possible my aldosterone is the problem here (see

below) ...

>

> Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

>

> Its really important to not look at whether the

> tests say you are hyper. You have to go by

> symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak

> around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs

> show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant

> TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

Good to know I'm not the only one : )

> What are your symptoms specifically Marlena?

Well, this is a long story but basically all of my

thyroid symptoms are still the same as before

treatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,

dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name a

few. Although I will say that my nails seem

healthier!) and in addition I have had, since thyroid

treatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which I

never had before. This makes me think it has to be my

adrenals -- I've had them tested many times in the

last 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisol

levels are back to being pretty good but my

aldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation was

disappointing. I never had it tested before because

most adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need to

find out what to do about this. My doctor is waiting

to talk with the lab doctor to make sure our

interpretation is correct ...

I LOVE

> your name by the way. Very pretty.

>

> ~E:)

Thank you so much! That is very sweet!

Marlena

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Hi E,

> Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean

> get

> labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to

> add

> Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4

> is

> already too high ... if anything, I think I should

> add

> T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I

> find

> out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handle

> more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do blood

> tests and he has with me -- I reported my

> antibodies,

> TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's just

> that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular

> lab

> is the most reliable indicator and I have to say, it

> has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

> have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on

> 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as

> much

> of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn't

> know I was having a problem converting from those

> tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems to

> reflect that the best! Please do share with me your

> thoughts though, I am always interested and open to

> hearing other's perspectives.

>

> Marlena

>

> --- E Gillespie wrote:

>

> > I think..you may try to get labs tested without

> the

> > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need

> > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

> >

> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I

> > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you

> > need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

> >

> > ~E:)

> >

> >

> >

> > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all,

> so

> > I finally got my most recent thyroid

> > results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.

> > My

> > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> > test

> > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24

> hr

> > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount

> of

> > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway

> here

> > are my results:

> >

> > 11/2004 (before treatment):

> > T3 621 range 800-1800

> > T4 1698 range 1800-3000

> >

> > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get

> > the

> > results!)

> > T3 894 range 800-1800

> > T4 3124 range 1800-3000

> >

> > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm

> on

> > 3

> > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release

> T3.

> > (I

> > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and

> 25mcg

> > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a

> > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> > eventually

> > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my

> > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to

> cut

> > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so it

> > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was

> probably

> > good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive

> > who

> > is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she

> told

> > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> > correlated

> > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> > extra

> > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> > with

> > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body

> > would want more T3... from my results I'm

> guessing

> > that my original thyroid production is down to

> zero

> > or

> > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> > .011)

> > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no

> > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be

> > completely dependent on something that isn't even

> > working for me! I've done all the research and

> been

> > the model patient -- doing everything I'm supposed

> > to

> > be doing ... I really don't know where to go from

> > here.

> > I do all the things one is supposed to do to

> enhance

> > conversion too ...

> >

> > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> > about

> > where I should go from here ...

> >

> > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I

> > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> > results seem to show that my adrenals are actually

> > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation

> test

> > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk

> > to

> > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the

> 2

> > 24

> > hr urine collection results which tests a

> breakdown

> > of

> > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able

> to

> > do

> > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as

> > to

> > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> > going

> > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment

> for

> > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm

> not

> > nearly as functional as before ...]

> >

> > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> > good

> > amount after the stimulation -- which it's

> supposed

> > to

> > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number

> > to

> > begin with but then it went down just a little

> after

> > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> > what

> > I don't understand is that apparently the more

> salt

> > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...

> aldosterone's

> > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you

> > eat,

> > the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> > having the surge of cortisol after the test would

> > increase salt retention and therefore lower

> > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it

> > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> > anyone know about this?

> >

> > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult

> > to

> > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

> >

> > Marlena

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________

> > Yahoo! Mail

> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the

> > tour:

> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi E, thanks for your letter. I'll respond in text:

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> Marlena:

>

> Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last

> night after I went to bed and realized I may have

> been a little clumsy in my response to you.

>

> I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I

> was trying to come with possible reason for that. I

> reread your post...so many times and thought it said

> you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and

> that your urine results were indicator of that? No?

>

> Gosh! I'm sorry.

No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! And

no, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only taken

natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained release

T3.

> Still when someone takes just a small amout of

> synthetic they don't typtically get your

> results...so I thought perhaps there was a further

> cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

>

> Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour

> and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up

> the results...and see if you could capture the

> hidden pattern and respond to it.

This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and find

out the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It's

possible my aldosterone is the problem here (see

below) ...

>

> Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

>

> Its really important to not look at whether the

> tests say you are hyper. You have to go by

> symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak

> around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs

> show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant

> TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

Good to know I'm not the only one : )

> What are your symptoms specifically Marlena?

Well, this is a long story but basically all of my

thyroid symptoms are still the same as before

treatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,

dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name a

few. Although I will say that my nails seem

healthier!) and in addition I have had, since thyroid

treatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which I

never had before. This makes me think it has to be my

adrenals -- I've had them tested many times in the

last 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisol

levels are back to being pretty good but my

aldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation was

disappointing. I never had it tested before because

most adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need to

find out what to do about this. My doctor is waiting

to talk with the lab doctor to make sure our

interpretation is correct ...

I LOVE

> your name by the way. Very pretty.

>

> ~E:)

Thank you so much! That is very sweet!

Marlena

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Hi E,

> Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean

> get

> labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to

> add

> Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4

> is

> already too high ... if anything, I think I should

> add

> T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I

> find

> out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handle

> more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do blood

> tests and he has with me -- I reported my

> antibodies,

> TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's just

> that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular

> lab

> is the most reliable indicator and I have to say, it

> has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

> have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on

> 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as

> much

> of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn't

> know I was having a problem converting from those

> tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems to

> reflect that the best! Please do share with me your

> thoughts though, I am always interested and open to

> hearing other's perspectives.

>

> Marlena

>

> --- E Gillespie wrote:

>

> > I think..you may try to get labs tested without

> the

> > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need

> > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

> >

> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I

> > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you

> > need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

> >

> > ~E:)

> >

> >

> >

> > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all,

> so

> > I finally got my most recent thyroid

> > results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.

> > My

> > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> > test

> > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24

> hr

> > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount

> of

> > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway

> here

> > are my results:

> >

> > 11/2004 (before treatment):

> > T3 621 range 800-1800

> > T4 1698 range 1800-3000

> >

> > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get

> > the

> > results!)

> > T3 894 range 800-1800

> > T4 3124 range 1800-3000

> >

> > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm

> on

> > 3

> > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release

> T3.

> > (I

> > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and

> 25mcg

> > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a

> > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> > eventually

> > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my

> > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to

> cut

> > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so it

> > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was

> probably

> > good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive

> > who

> > is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she

> told

> > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> > correlated

> > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> > extra

> > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> > with

> > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body

> > would want more T3... from my results I'm

> guessing

> > that my original thyroid production is down to

> zero

> > or

> > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> > .011)

> > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no

> > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be

> > completely dependent on something that isn't even

> > working for me! I've done all the research and

> been

> > the model patient -- doing everything I'm supposed

> > to

> > be doing ... I really don't know where to go from

> > here.

> > I do all the things one is supposed to do to

> enhance

> > conversion too ...

> >

> > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> > about

> > where I should go from here ...

> >

> > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I

> > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> > results seem to show that my adrenals are actually

> > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation

> test

> > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk

> > to

> > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the

> 2

> > 24

> > hr urine collection results which tests a

> breakdown

> > of

> > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able

> to

> > do

> > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as

> > to

> > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> > going

> > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment

> for

> > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm

> not

> > nearly as functional as before ...]

> >

> > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> > good

> > amount after the stimulation -- which it's

> supposed

> > to

> > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number

> > to

> > begin with but then it went down just a little

> after

> > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> > what

> > I don't understand is that apparently the more

> salt

> > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...

> aldosterone's

> > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you

> > eat,

> > the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> > having the surge of cortisol after the test would

> > increase salt retention and therefore lower

> > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it

> > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> > anyone know about this?

> >

> > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult

> > to

> > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

> >

> > Marlena

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________

> > Yahoo! Mail

> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the

> > tour:

> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi E, thanks for your letter. I'll respond in text:

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> Marlena:

>

> Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last

> night after I went to bed and realized I may have

> been a little clumsy in my response to you.

>

> I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I

> was trying to come with possible reason for that. I

> reread your post...so many times and thought it said

> you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and

> that your urine results were indicator of that? No?

>

> Gosh! I'm sorry.

No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! And

no, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only taken

natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained release

T3.

> Still when someone takes just a small amout of

> synthetic they don't typtically get your

> results...so I thought perhaps there was a further

> cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

>

> Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour

> and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up

> the results...and see if you could capture the

> hidden pattern and respond to it.

This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and find

out the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It's

possible my aldosterone is the problem here (see

below) ...

>

> Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

>

> Its really important to not look at whether the

> tests say you are hyper. You have to go by

> symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak

> around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs

> show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant

> TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

Good to know I'm not the only one : )

> What are your symptoms specifically Marlena?

Well, this is a long story but basically all of my

thyroid symptoms are still the same as before

treatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,

dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name a

few. Although I will say that my nails seem

healthier!) and in addition I have had, since thyroid

treatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which I

never had before. This makes me think it has to be my

adrenals -- I've had them tested many times in the

last 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisol

levels are back to being pretty good but my

aldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation was

disappointing. I never had it tested before because

most adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need to

find out what to do about this. My doctor is waiting

to talk with the lab doctor to make sure our

interpretation is correct ...

I LOVE

> your name by the way. Very pretty.

>

> ~E:)

Thank you so much! That is very sweet!

Marlena

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Hi E,

> Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean

> get

> labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to

> add

> Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4

> is

> already too high ... if anything, I think I should

> add

> T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I

> find

> out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handle

> more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do blood

> tests and he has with me -- I reported my

> antibodies,

> TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's just

> that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular

> lab

> is the most reliable indicator and I have to say, it

> has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

> have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on

> 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as

> much

> of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn't

> know I was having a problem converting from those

> tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems to

> reflect that the best! Please do share with me your

> thoughts though, I am always interested and open to

> hearing other's perspectives.

>

> Marlena

>

> --- E Gillespie wrote:

>

> > I think..you may try to get labs tested without

> the

> > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need

> > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

> >

> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I

> > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you

> > need a different doc who will run bloods instead.

> >

> > ~E:)

> >

> >

> >

> > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all,

> so

> > I finally got my most recent thyroid

> > results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.

> > My

> > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> > test

> > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24

> hr

> > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount

> of

> > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway

> here

> > are my results:

> >

> > 11/2004 (before treatment):

> > T3 621 range 800-1800

> > T4 1698 range 1800-3000

> >

> > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get

> > the

> > results!)

> > T3 894 range 800-1800

> > T4 3124 range 1800-3000

> >

> > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm

> on

> > 3

> > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release

> T3.

> > (I

> > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and

> 25mcg

> > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a

> > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> > eventually

> > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my

> > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to

> cut

> > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so it

> > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was

> probably

> > good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive

> > who

> > is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she

> told

> > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> > correlated

> > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> > extra

> > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> > with

> > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body

> > would want more T3... from my results I'm

> guessing

> > that my original thyroid production is down to

> zero

> > or

> > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> > .011)

> > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no

> > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be

> > completely dependent on something that isn't even

> > working for me! I've done all the research and

> been

> > the model patient -- doing everything I'm supposed

> > to

> > be doing ... I really don't know where to go from

> > here.

> > I do all the things one is supposed to do to

> enhance

> > conversion too ...

> >

> > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> > about

> > where I should go from here ...

> >

> > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I

> > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> > results seem to show that my adrenals are actually

> > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation

> test

> > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk

> > to

> > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the

> 2

> > 24

> > hr urine collection results which tests a

> breakdown

> > of

> > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able

> to

> > do

> > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused as

> > to

> > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> > going

> > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment

> for

> > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm

> not

> > nearly as functional as before ...]

> >

> > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> > good

> > amount after the stimulation -- which it's

> supposed

> > to

> > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number

> > to

> > begin with but then it went down just a little

> after

> > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> > what

> > I don't understand is that apparently the more

> salt

> > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...

> aldosterone's

> > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you

> > eat,

> > the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> > having the surge of cortisol after the test would

> > increase salt retention and therefore lower

> > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it

> > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> > anyone know about this?

> >

> > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult

> > to

> > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

> >

> > Marlena

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________

> > Yahoo! Mail

> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the

> > tour:

> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Marlena:

You certainly are throwing a few strange ones around. LOL Urine test with no frees and an aldosterone challenge test?

Topper correctly mentions that you seem to be working with kind of an odd doc. I wonder what you blood frees (circulating non-bound hormone...instead of totals) really look like...and I do wonder what saliva testing might look like with the cortisol. Also I do wonder if you have high SBGH or even if you are low in ferriten. If you have high SBGH..that can drive down your androgens and make you weak as well.

So...if you get all this looked into...you'll have a working baseline that can give you actionable intelligence.

Yeah...I know its more work than you thought it would be...but it will all be worth it in the end.

~E:)

Marlena wrote:

Hi E, thanks for your letter. I'll respond in text:--- E Gillespie wrote:> Marlena:> > Oddly enough I thought about my response to you last> night after I went to bed and realized I may have> been a little clumsy in my response to you. > > I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and I> was trying to come with possible reason for that. I> reread your post...so many times and thought it said> you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and> that your urine results were indicator of that? No?> > Gosh! I'm sorry. No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! Andno, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only taken natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained

releaseT3. > Still when someone takes just a small amout of> synthetic they don't typtically get your> results...so I thought perhaps there was a further> cause. Urine testing instead of the blood? > > Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour> and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake up> the results...and see if you could capture the> hidden pattern and respond to it. This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and findout the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It'spossible my aldosterone is the problem here (seebelow) ... > > Its not the most typical scenario I've seen. > > Its really important to not look at whether the> tests say you are hyper. You have to go by> symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak> around a bit to get to the sweet

spot. May labs> show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant> TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.Good to know I'm not the only one : ) > What are your symptoms specifically Marlena? Well, this is a long story but basically all of mythyroid symptoms are still the same as beforetreatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name afew. Although I will say that my nails seemhealthier!) and in addition I have had, since thyroidtreatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which Inever had before. This makes me think it has to be myadrenals -- I've had them tested many times in thelast 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisollevels are back to being pretty good but myaldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation wasdisappointing. I never had it tested before becausemost adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need tofind

out what to do about this. My doctor is waitingto talk with the lab doctor to make sure ourinterpretation is correct ...I LOVE> your name by the way. Very pretty.> > ~E:) Thank you so much! That is very sweet!Marlena > > > Marlena wrote:Hi E,> Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean> get> labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to> add> Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4> is> already too high ... if anything, I think I should> add> T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I> find> out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to handle> more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do blood> tests and he has with me -- I reported my> antibodies,> TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's

just> that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular> lab> is the most reliable indicator and I have to say, it> has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests> have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper on> 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as> much> of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I didn't> know I was having a problem converting from those> tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems to> reflect that the best! Please do share with me your> thoughts though, I am always interested and open to> hearing other's perspectives.> > Marlena> > --- E Gillespie wrote:> > > I think..you may try to get labs tested without> the> > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just need> > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.> >

> > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good. I> > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if you> > need a different doc who will run bloods instead.> > > > ~E:)> > > > > > > > Marlena wrote:Ok y'all,> so> > I finally got my most recent thyroid> > results in but I'm not sure where to go from here.> > My> > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure> > test> > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a 24> hr> > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount> of> > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway> here> > are my results:> > > > 11/2004 (before treatment):> > T3 621 range 800-1800> > T4 1698 range 1800-3000> > > >

7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to get> > the> > results!)> > T3 894 range 800-1800> > T4 3124 range 1800-3000> > > > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now I'm> on> > 3> > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release> T3.> > (I> > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and> 25mcg> > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over a> > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and> > eventually> > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know my> > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to> cut> > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so it> > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was> probably> > good ... I'm also working with a medical intuitive> > who> > is helping me to figure things out a bit --

she> told> > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which> > correlated> > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish> > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not> > extra> > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense> > with> > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my body> > would want more T3... from my results I'm> guessing> > that my original thyroid production is down to> zero> > or> > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was> > .011)> > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on no> > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to be> > completely dependent on something that isn't even> > working for me! I've done all the research and> been> > the model patient -- doing everything I'm supposed> > to> > be doing

.... I really don't know where to go from> > here. > > I do all the things one is supposed to do to> enhance> > conversion too ...> > > > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive> > about> > where I should go from here ...> > > > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before I> > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test> > results seem to show that my adrenals are actually> > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation> test> > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to talk> > to> > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of the> 2> > 24> > hr urine collection results which tests a> breakdown> > of> > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able> to> > do> > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused

as> > to> > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm> > going> > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment> for> > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm> not> > nearly as functional as before ...]> > > > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a> > good> > amount after the stimulation -- which it's> supposed> > to> > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good number> > to> > begin with but then it went down just a little> after> > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but> > what> > I don't understand is that apparently the more> salt> > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...> aldosterone's> > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more you> > eat,> > the less is needed. Therefore I would think

that> > having the surge of cortisol after the test would> > increase salt retention and therefore lower> > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however it> > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does> > anyone know about this?> > > > I know I'm writing a letter that will be difficult> > to> > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...> > > > Marlena> > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the> > tour: > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

Yes, I know my doctor is using obscure tests that not

many people are familiar with! But I have done the

other tests as well and posted the results in

subsequent letters. In June I did TSH and the frees.

My TSH was 0.011 and my frees were both just under the

mid-line. That told me that I probably needed an

increase in dosage so that's what I did -- but this

urine test was the first clue to let me know that I

may not be converting well ... my MD is great. He's

very holistic and specializes in thyroid -- he comes

from the Broda school of thought and uses the

test that the Broda Institute recommends -- I

think ... I've also done the 4x/day cortisol/DHEA

saliva tests several times in the last 6 months. And

the last 2 showed that my cortisol was fine. This

urine test was much more thorough. Not only did it

test many many more of the adrenal hormones than just

those 2, but it was before and after an ACTH

stimulation injection -- to test my adrenal reserve

(what my adrenals are capable of doing under stress)

.... If I hadn't done that, my aldosterone would have

looked normal -- but the ACTH stimulation showed that

it was producing maximum quantity already and under

stress it collapsed and produced less instead of more

as it should ...

What is SBGH?

And yes, my ferritin has been low and I am taking iron

plus B12 injections that my doc has me giving myself!

I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. It

feels good to be taking such good care of myself --

but it's frustrating to not see the results and to be

so young ... : (

Marlena

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> Marlena:

>

> You certainly are throwing a few strange ones

> around. LOL Urine test with no frees and an

> aldosterone challenge test?

>

> Topper correctly mentions that you seem to be

> working with kind of an odd doc. I wonder what you

> blood frees (circulating non-bound hormone...instead

> of totals) really look like...and I do wonder what

> saliva testing might look like with the cortisol.

> Also I do wonder if you have high SBGH or even if

> you are low in ferriten. If you have high SBGH..that

> can drive down your androgens and make you weak as

> well.

>

> So...if you get all this looked into...you'll have a

> working baseline that can give you actionable

> intelligence.

>

> Yeah...I know its more work than you thought it

> would be...but it will all be worth it in the end.

>

> ~E:)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Hi E, thanks

> for your letter. I'll respond in text:

>

> --- E Gillespie wrote:

>

> > Marlena:

> >

> > Oddly enough I thought about my response to you

> last

> > night after I went to bed and realized I may have

> > been a little clumsy in my response to you.

> >

> > I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and

> I

> > was trying to come with possible reason for that.

> I

> > reread your post...so many times and thought it

> said

> > you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and

> > that your urine results were indicator of that?

> No?

> >

> > Gosh! I'm sorry.

>

>

> No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! And

> no, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only

> taken

> natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained release

> T3.

>

>

> > Still when someone takes just a small amout of

> > synthetic they don't typtically get your

> > results...so I thought perhaps there was a further

> > cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

> >

> > Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour

> > and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake

> up

> > the results...and see if you could capture the

> > hidden pattern and respond to it.

>

> This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and

> find

> out the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It's

> possible my aldosterone is the problem here (see

> below) ...

>

> >

> > Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

> >

> > Its really important to not look at whether the

> > tests say you are hyper. You have to go by

> > symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak

> > around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs

> > show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant

> > TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

>

> Good to know I'm not the only one : )

>

> > What are your symptoms specifically Marlena?

>

> Well, this is a long story but basically all of my

> thyroid symptoms are still the same as before

> treatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,

> dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name a

> few. Although I will say that my nails seem

> healthier!) and in addition I have had, since

> thyroid

> treatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which I

> never had before. This makes me think it has to be

> my

> adrenals -- I've had them tested many times in the

> last 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisol

> levels are back to being pretty good but my

> aldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation was

> disappointing. I never had it tested before because

> most adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need to

> find out what to do about this. My doctor is waiting

> to talk with the lab doctor to make sure our

> interpretation is correct ...

>

> I LOVE

> > your name by the way. Very pretty.

> >

> > ~E:)

>

> Thank you so much! That is very sweet!

>

> Marlena

>

>

> >

> >

> > Marlena wrote:Hi E,

> > Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean

> > get

> > labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to

> > add

> > Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4

> > is

> > already too high ... if anything, I think I should

> > add

> > T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I

> > find

> > out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to

> handle

> > more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do

> blood

> > tests and he has with me -- I reported my

> > antibodies,

> > TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's

> just

> > that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular

> > lab

> > is the most reliable indicator and I have to say,

> it

> > has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

> > have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper

> on

> > 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as

> > much

> > of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I

> didn't

> > know I was having a problem converting from those

> > tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems

> to

> > reflect that the best! Please do share with me

> your

> > thoughts though, I am always interested and open

> to

> > hearing other's perspectives.

> >

> > Marlena

> >

> > --- E Gillespie wrote:

> >

> > > I think..you may try to get labs tested without

> > the

> > > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just

> need

> > > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

> > >

> > > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good.

> I

> > > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if

> you

> > > need a different doc who will run bloods

> instead.

> > >

> > > ~E:)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marlena wrote:Ok

> y'all,

> > so

> > > I finally got my most recent thyroid

> > > results in but I'm not sure where to go from

> here.

> > > My

> > > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> > > test

> > > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a

> 24

> > hr

> > > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount

> > of

> > > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway

> > here

> > > are my results:

> > >

> > > 11/2004 (before treatment):

> > > T3 621 range 800-1800

> > > T4 1698 range 1800-3000

> > >

> > > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to

> get

> > > the

> > > results!)

> > > T3 894 range 800-1800

> > > T4 3124 range 1800-3000

> > >

> > > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now

> I'm

> > on

> > > 3

> > > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release

> > T3.

> > > (I

> > > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and

> > 25mcg

> > > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over

> a

> > > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> > > eventually

> > > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know

> my

> > > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to

> > cut

> > > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so

> it

> > > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was

> > probably

> > > good ... I'm also working with a medical

> intuitive

> > > who

> > > is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she

> > told

> > > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> > > correlated

> > > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> > > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> > > extra

> > > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> > > with

> > > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my

> body

> > > would want more T3... from my results I'm

> > guessing

> > > that my original thyroid production is down to

> > zero

> > > or

> > > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> > > .011)

> > > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on

> no

> > > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to

> be

> > > completely dependent on something that isn't

> even

> > > working for me! I've done all the research and

> > been

> > > the model patient -- doing everything I'm

> supposed

> > > to

> > > be doing ... I really don't know where to go

> from

> > > here.

> > > I do all the things one is supposed to do to

> > enhance

> > > conversion too ...

> > >

> > > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> > > about

> > > where I should go from here ...

> > >

> > > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before

> I

> > > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> > > results seem to show that my adrenals are

> actually

> > > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation

> > test

> > > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to

> talk

> > > to

> > > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of

> the

> > 2

> > > 24

> > > hr urine collection results which tests a

> > breakdown

> > > of

> > > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able

> > to

> > > do

> > > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused

> as

> > > to

> > > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> > > going

> > > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment

> > for

> > > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm

> > not

> > > nearly as functional as before ...]

> > >

> > > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> > > good

> > > amount after the stimulation -- which it's

> > supposed

> > > to

> > > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good

> number

> > > to

> > > begin with but then it went down just a little

> > after

> > > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> > > what

> > > I don't understand is that apparently the more

> > salt

> > > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...

> > aldosterone's

> > > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more

> you

> > > eat,

> > > the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> > > having the surge of cortisol after the test

> would

> > > increase salt retention and therefore lower

> > > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however

> it

> > > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> > > anyone know about this?

> > >

> > > I know I'm writing a letter that will be

> difficult

> > > to

> > > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

> > >

> > > Marlena

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________

> > > Yahoo! Mail

> > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take

> the

> > > tour:

> > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

Yes, I know my doctor is using obscure tests that not

many people are familiar with! But I have done the

other tests as well and posted the results in

subsequent letters. In June I did TSH and the frees.

My TSH was 0.011 and my frees were both just under the

mid-line. That told me that I probably needed an

increase in dosage so that's what I did -- but this

urine test was the first clue to let me know that I

may not be converting well ... my MD is great. He's

very holistic and specializes in thyroid -- he comes

from the Broda school of thought and uses the

test that the Broda Institute recommends -- I

think ... I've also done the 4x/day cortisol/DHEA

saliva tests several times in the last 6 months. And

the last 2 showed that my cortisol was fine. This

urine test was much more thorough. Not only did it

test many many more of the adrenal hormones than just

those 2, but it was before and after an ACTH

stimulation injection -- to test my adrenal reserve

(what my adrenals are capable of doing under stress)

.... If I hadn't done that, my aldosterone would have

looked normal -- but the ACTH stimulation showed that

it was producing maximum quantity already and under

stress it collapsed and produced less instead of more

as it should ...

What is SBGH?

And yes, my ferritin has been low and I am taking iron

plus B12 injections that my doc has me giving myself!

I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. It

feels good to be taking such good care of myself --

but it's frustrating to not see the results and to be

so young ... : (

Marlena

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> Marlena:

>

> You certainly are throwing a few strange ones

> around. LOL Urine test with no frees and an

> aldosterone challenge test?

>

> Topper correctly mentions that you seem to be

> working with kind of an odd doc. I wonder what you

> blood frees (circulating non-bound hormone...instead

> of totals) really look like...and I do wonder what

> saliva testing might look like with the cortisol.

> Also I do wonder if you have high SBGH or even if

> you are low in ferriten. If you have high SBGH..that

> can drive down your androgens and make you weak as

> well.

>

> So...if you get all this looked into...you'll have a

> working baseline that can give you actionable

> intelligence.

>

> Yeah...I know its more work than you thought it

> would be...but it will all be worth it in the end.

>

> ~E:)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Hi E, thanks

> for your letter. I'll respond in text:

>

> --- E Gillespie wrote:

>

> > Marlena:

> >

> > Oddly enough I thought about my response to you

> last

> > night after I went to bed and realized I may have

> > been a little clumsy in my response to you.

> >

> > I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and

> I

> > was trying to come with possible reason for that.

> I

> > reread your post...so many times and thought it

> said

> > you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and

> > that your urine results were indicator of that?

> No?

> >

> > Gosh! I'm sorry.

>

>

> No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! And

> no, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only

> taken

> natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained release

> T3.

>

>

> > Still when someone takes just a small amout of

> > synthetic they don't typtically get your

> > results...so I thought perhaps there was a further

> > cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

> >

> > Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour

> > and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake

> up

> > the results...and see if you could capture the

> > hidden pattern and respond to it.

>

> This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and

> find

> out the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It's

> possible my aldosterone is the problem here (see

> below) ...

>

> >

> > Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

> >

> > Its really important to not look at whether the

> > tests say you are hyper. You have to go by

> > symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak

> > around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs

> > show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant

> > TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

>

> Good to know I'm not the only one : )

>

> > What are your symptoms specifically Marlena?

>

> Well, this is a long story but basically all of my

> thyroid symptoms are still the same as before

> treatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,

> dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name a

> few. Although I will say that my nails seem

> healthier!) and in addition I have had, since

> thyroid

> treatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which I

> never had before. This makes me think it has to be

> my

> adrenals -- I've had them tested many times in the

> last 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisol

> levels are back to being pretty good but my

> aldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation was

> disappointing. I never had it tested before because

> most adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need to

> find out what to do about this. My doctor is waiting

> to talk with the lab doctor to make sure our

> interpretation is correct ...

>

> I LOVE

> > your name by the way. Very pretty.

> >

> > ~E:)

>

> Thank you so much! That is very sweet!

>

> Marlena

>

>

> >

> >

> > Marlena wrote:Hi E,

> > Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean

> > get

> > labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to

> > add

> > Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4

> > is

> > already too high ... if anything, I think I should

> > add

> > T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I

> > find

> > out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to

> handle

> > more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do

> blood

> > tests and he has with me -- I reported my

> > antibodies,

> > TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's

> just

> > that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular

> > lab

> > is the most reliable indicator and I have to say,

> it

> > has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

> > have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper

> on

> > 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as

> > much

> > of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I

> didn't

> > know I was having a problem converting from those

> > tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems

> to

> > reflect that the best! Please do share with me

> your

> > thoughts though, I am always interested and open

> to

> > hearing other's perspectives.

> >

> > Marlena

> >

> > --- E Gillespie wrote:

> >

> > > I think..you may try to get labs tested without

> > the

> > > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just

> need

> > > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

> > >

> > > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good.

> I

> > > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if

> you

> > > need a different doc who will run bloods

> instead.

> > >

> > > ~E:)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marlena wrote:Ok

> y'all,

> > so

> > > I finally got my most recent thyroid

> > > results in but I'm not sure where to go from

> here.

> > > My

> > > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> > > test

> > > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a

> 24

> > hr

> > > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount

> > of

> > > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway

> > here

> > > are my results:

> > >

> > > 11/2004 (before treatment):

> > > T3 621 range 800-1800

> > > T4 1698 range 1800-3000

> > >

> > > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to

> get

> > > the

> > > results!)

> > > T3 894 range 800-1800

> > > T4 3124 range 1800-3000

> > >

> > > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now

> I'm

> > on

> > > 3

> > > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release

> > T3.

> > > (I

> > > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and

> > 25mcg

> > > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over

> a

> > > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> > > eventually

> > > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know

> my

> > > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to

> > cut

> > > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so

> it

> > > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was

> > probably

> > > good ... I'm also working with a medical

> intuitive

> > > who

> > > is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she

> > told

> > > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> > > correlated

> > > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> > > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> > > extra

> > > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> > > with

> > > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my

> body

> > > would want more T3... from my results I'm

> > guessing

> > > that my original thyroid production is down to

> > zero

> > > or

> > > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> > > .011)

> > > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on

> no

> > > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to

> be

> > > completely dependent on something that isn't

> even

> > > working for me! I've done all the research and

> > been

> > > the model patient -- doing everything I'm

> supposed

> > > to

> > > be doing ... I really don't know where to go

> from

> > > here.

> > > I do all the things one is supposed to do to

> > enhance

> > > conversion too ...

> > >

> > > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> > > about

> > > where I should go from here ...

> > >

> > > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before

> I

> > > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> > > results seem to show that my adrenals are

> actually

> > > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation

> > test

> > > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to

> talk

> > > to

> > > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of

> the

> > 2

> > > 24

> > > hr urine collection results which tests a

> > breakdown

> > > of

> > > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able

> > to

> > > do

> > > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused

> as

> > > to

> > > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> > > going

> > > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment

> > for

> > > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm

> > not

> > > nearly as functional as before ...]

> > >

> > > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> > > good

> > > amount after the stimulation -- which it's

> > supposed

> > > to

> > > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good

> number

> > > to

> > > begin with but then it went down just a little

> > after

> > > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> > > what

> > > I don't understand is that apparently the more

> > salt

> > > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...

> > aldosterone's

> > > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more

> you

> > > eat,

> > > the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> > > having the surge of cortisol after the test

> would

> > > increase salt retention and therefore lower

> > > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however

> it

> > > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> > > anyone know about this?

> > >

> > > I know I'm writing a letter that will be

> difficult

> > > to

> > > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

> > >

> > > Marlena

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________

> > > Yahoo! Mail

> > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take

> the

> > > tour:

> > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi E,

Yes, I know my doctor is using obscure tests that not

many people are familiar with! But I have done the

other tests as well and posted the results in

subsequent letters. In June I did TSH and the frees.

My TSH was 0.011 and my frees were both just under the

mid-line. That told me that I probably needed an

increase in dosage so that's what I did -- but this

urine test was the first clue to let me know that I

may not be converting well ... my MD is great. He's

very holistic and specializes in thyroid -- he comes

from the Broda school of thought and uses the

test that the Broda Institute recommends -- I

think ... I've also done the 4x/day cortisol/DHEA

saliva tests several times in the last 6 months. And

the last 2 showed that my cortisol was fine. This

urine test was much more thorough. Not only did it

test many many more of the adrenal hormones than just

those 2, but it was before and after an ACTH

stimulation injection -- to test my adrenal reserve

(what my adrenals are capable of doing under stress)

.... If I hadn't done that, my aldosterone would have

looked normal -- but the ACTH stimulation showed that

it was producing maximum quantity already and under

stress it collapsed and produced less instead of more

as it should ...

What is SBGH?

And yes, my ferritin has been low and I am taking iron

plus B12 injections that my doc has me giving myself!

I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. It

feels good to be taking such good care of myself --

but it's frustrating to not see the results and to be

so young ... : (

Marlena

--- E Gillespie wrote:

> Marlena:

>

> You certainly are throwing a few strange ones

> around. LOL Urine test with no frees and an

> aldosterone challenge test?

>

> Topper correctly mentions that you seem to be

> working with kind of an odd doc. I wonder what you

> blood frees (circulating non-bound hormone...instead

> of totals) really look like...and I do wonder what

> saliva testing might look like with the cortisol.

> Also I do wonder if you have high SBGH or even if

> you are low in ferriten. If you have high SBGH..that

> can drive down your androgens and make you weak as

> well.

>

> So...if you get all this looked into...you'll have a

> working baseline that can give you actionable

> intelligence.

>

> Yeah...I know its more work than you thought it

> would be...but it will all be worth it in the end.

>

> ~E:)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Marlena wrote:Hi E, thanks

> for your letter. I'll respond in text:

>

> --- E Gillespie wrote:

>

> > Marlena:

> >

> > Oddly enough I thought about my response to you

> last

> > night after I went to bed and realized I may have

> > been a little clumsy in my response to you.

> >

> > I do see that your t3- t4 display appears off and

> I

> > was trying to come with possible reason for that.

> I

> > reread your post...so many times and thought it

> said

> > you were taking synthetic t4 with your Armour and

> > that your urine results were indicator of that?

> No?

> >

> > Gosh! I'm sorry.

>

>

> No problem, I appreciate you thinking about me! And

> no, I have never taken synthetic T4. I have only

> taken

> natural thyroid and plain T3 and sustained release

> T3.

>

>

> > Still when someone takes just a small amout of

> > synthetic they don't typtically get your

> > results...so I thought perhaps there was a further

> > cause. Urine testing instead of the blood?

> >

> > Maybe you need to try to reduce some of the Armour

> > and add more t3? Jjust to see if you can shake

> up

> > the results...and see if you could capture the

> > hidden pattern and respond to it.

>

> This is my thinking too -- but I need to wait and

> find

> out the conclusive results on my adrenal test. It's

> possible my aldosterone is the problem here (see

> below) ...

>

> >

> > Its not the most typical scenario I've seen.

> >

> > Its really important to not look at whether the

> > tests say you are hyper. You have to go by

> > symptoms. Sometimes you have to hunt and tweak

> > around a bit to get to the sweet spot. May labs

> > show I'm hyper...if you look at my non-existant

> > TSH..and yet I'm still hypo.

>

> Good to know I'm not the only one : )

>

> > What are your symptoms specifically Marlena?

>

> Well, this is a long story but basically all of my

> thyroid symptoms are still the same as before

> treatment (severe air hunger, constipation/bloating,

> dry skin & hair, irregular menstruation -- to name a

> few. Although I will say that my nails seem

> healthier!) and in addition I have had, since

> thyroid

> treatment, terrible fatigue and weakness -- which I

> never had before. This makes me think it has to be

> my

> adrenals -- I've had them tested many times in the

> last 6 months and after a lot of support my cortisol

> levels are back to being pretty good but my

> aldosterone response to the ACTH stimulation was

> disappointing. I never had it tested before because

> most adrenal tests don't bother with it. I need to

> find out what to do about this. My doctor is waiting

> to talk with the lab doctor to make sure our

> interpretation is correct ...

>

> I LOVE

> > your name by the way. Very pretty.

> >

> > ~E:)

>

> Thank you so much! That is very sweet!

>

> Marlena

>

>

> >

> >

> > Marlena wrote:Hi E,

> > Thanks for your kindness ... but what do you mean

> > get

> > labs without the T4? Armour contains 80% T4 so to

> > add

> > Armour would be to add T4 and as you can see my T4

> > is

> > already too high ... if anything, I think I should

> > add

> > T3 only but I'm going to wait to do that until I

> > find

> > out for sure that my adrenals are equipped to

> handle

> > more T3. My doctor is more than willing to do

> blood

> > tests and he has with me -- I reported my

> > antibodies,

> > TSH, and free's in a subsequent letter ... it's

> just

> > that he feels the 24 hr urine from this particular

> > lab

> > is the most reliable indicator and I have to say,

> it

> > has reflected how I feel more than the blood tests

> > have. My TSH for instance said I was super hyper

> on

> > 2.5 grains ... and my last free's didn't show as

> > much

> > of a discrepancy between my T4 and T3 -- so I

> didn't

> > know I was having a problem converting from those

> > tests ... since I feel horrible, this test seems

> to

> > reflect that the best! Please do share with me

> your

> > thoughts though, I am always interested and open

> to

> > hearing other's perspectives.

> >

> > Marlena

> >

> > --- E Gillespie wrote:

> >

> > > I think..you may try to get labs tested without

> > the

> > > t4 and also add in some Armour. You may just

> need

> > > to do a lot more Armour before you get well.

> > >

> > > Sorry to see you struggling. This is not good.

> I

> > > hope you get going better soon. I wonder if

> you

> > > need a different doc who will run bloods

> instead.

> > >

> > > ~E:)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Marlena wrote:Ok

> y'all,

> > so

> > > I finally got my most recent thyroid

> > > results in but I'm not sure where to go from

> here.

> > > My

> > > doctor is pretty holistic and uses a more obsure

> > > test

> > > from a lab called Vitamin Diagnostics. It is a

> 24

> > hr

> > > urine collection. Supposedly it tests the amount

> > of

> > > hormone your body is actually using ... anyway

> > here

> > > are my results:

> > >

> > > 11/2004 (before treatment):

> > > T3 621 range 800-1800

> > > T4 1698 range 1800-3000

> > >

> > > 7/05 (since treatment ... it takes a month to

> get

> > > the

> > > results!)

> > > T3 894 range 800-1800

> > > T4 3124 range 1800-3000

> > >

> > > So it looks like I'm not converting well. Now

> I'm

> > on

> > > 3

> > > grains of Armour plus 3.5 mcg sustained release

> > T3.

> > > (I

> > > was actually taking 3 1/4 grains of Armour and

> > 25mcg

> > > of SR T3 at the time of the test (which was over

> a

> > > month ago), but soon after felt so bad and

> > > eventually

> > > overstimulated that I cut way back) ... I know

> my

> > > consistency hasn't been that good, but I had to

> > cut

> > > back -- the T3 doesn't have such a long life so

> it

> > > seemed ok to me plus the decrease in T4 was

> > probably

> > > good ... I'm also working with a medical

> intuitive

> > > who

> > > is helping me to figure things out a bit -- she

> > told

> > > me that the 25 mcg was way too high (which

> > > correlated

> > > with my symptoms -- which for me was a feverish

> > > feeling and ultra fatigue, fast heartbeat -- not

> > > extra

> > > energy that's for sure). This doesn't make sense

> > > with

> > > my low T3 test result. It would seem that my

> body

> > > would want more T3... from my results I'm

> > guessing

> > > that my original thyroid production is down to

> > zero

> > > or

> > > almost zero (my last TSH while on 2.5 grains was

> > > .011)

> > > ... I'm just so frustrated ... I felt better on

> no

> > > medication whatsoever! And it's scary to me to

> be

> > > completely dependent on something that isn't

> even

> > > working for me! I've done all the research and

> > been

> > > the model patient -- doing everything I'm

> supposed

> > > to

> > > be doing ... I really don't know where to go

> from

> > > here.

> > > I do all the things one is supposed to do to

> > enhance

> > > conversion too ...

> > >

> > > My doctor is not telling me anything conclusive

> > > about

> > > where I should go from here ...

> > >

> > > The weird thing is that I feel worse than before

> I

> > > started treatment ... and my latest adrenal test

> > > results seem to show that my adrenals are

> actually

> > > doing ok (although this was an ACTH stimulation

> > test

> > > to check adrenal reserve and my doctor has to

> talk

> > > to

> > > the lab to get a conclusive interpretation of

> the

> > 2

> > > 24

> > > hr urine collection results which tests a

> > breakdown

> > > of

> > > all the adrenal hormones... and he won't be able

> > to

> > > do

> > > this for another 2 weeks!). I'm really confused

> as

> > > to

> > > why I would feel worse [for 8 months now -- I'm

> > > going

> > > crazy -- things were pretty bad before treatment

> > for

> > > 10+ years but I was still functioning -- now I'm

> > not

> > > nearly as functional as before ...]

> > >

> > > Every adrenal hormone in the test increased by a

> > > good

> > > amount after the stimulation -- which it's

> > supposed

> > > to

> > > do -- except the aldosterone. It was a good

> number

> > > to

> > > begin with but then it went down just a little

> > after

> > > the stimulation. It is supposed to go up ... but

> > > what

> > > I don't understand is that apparently the more

> > salt

> > > you eat, the lower the aldosterone ...

> > aldosterone's

> > > job is to keep salt in your body, so the more

> you

> > > eat,

> > > the less is needed. Therefore I would think that

> > > having the surge of cortisol after the test

> would

> > > increase salt retention and therefore lower

> > > aldosterone -- like happened with me -- however

> it

> > > says that it is supposed to increase so ... does

> > > anyone know about this?

> > >

> > > I know I'm writing a letter that will be

> difficult

> > > to

> > > respond to -- sorry, I just need to vent ...

> > >

> > > Marlena

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________

> > > Yahoo! Mail

> > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take

> the

> > > tour:

> > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Marlena, I don't mean to discourage, but keep in mind... with all this thyroid stuff, it often takes years for the body to get really run down and show symptoms. It also can take years for the symptoms to be resolved... to top that off, the longer things are messed up the less likely your body will be to recover.

No, no, don't hit the screen!!!

I dealt with crappy docs that wouldn't --- didn't know what they were doing...it was under their care that I ended up needing crutches to walk.... long term low dose is what caused that (I have no thyroid gland function, remember, they gave me RAI and killed the whole thing off)... It's been just over three years that I've been self treating with natural. Right now I'm at a stall. No really visible/noticeable improvements.....

Questions that come to my mind with this include that this just be the top end/high point of my recovery.... or possibly that there are environmental and /or stress issues that have me stalled at this point... You mention some stress in your life and the addition of moving... that can cause the body to stop the healing process and just deal with the day to day situation and concentrate on dealing with it..... That's why I brought this up... stress.... day to day life and circumstance.... How much of an affect does it have on a body that is battling to regain health? I use the word battling because that is what it is... the body does all kinds of adjustments and compromises to continue to function when hormones and eating habits and stuff cause it to have to function under less than ideal situations.

.... I'm on a ponder here... sorry...

If our body has worked for a period of time in an 'alternate' mode to be able to function... how much effort is needed for it to get out of it's new 'safe zone' and go back to normal function. If you consider that our body's main function is to continue to live by doing whatever it needs to do to do that, might it be that the chemistry involved with all the zillions of processes that go on in our bodies and minds each and every day get 'hard wired' in the new mode and the survival instinct/reflex of our bodies are having a hard time going back to normal?

I'll stop with that thought and see what you guys think..... I'm afraid I'm having one of those days when I'm going to be thinking not only outside the box, but maybe around the corner and down the block a ways!!! hehehehe

Topper ()

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

< snip >

I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. Itfeels good to be taking such good care of myself --but it's frustrating to not see the results and to beso young ... : (Marlena

[Guest guest]

Marlena, I don't mean to discourage, but keep in mind... with all this thyroid stuff, it often takes years for the body to get really run down and show symptoms. It also can take years for the symptoms to be resolved... to top that off, the longer things are messed up the less likely your body will be to recover.

No, no, don't hit the screen!!!

I dealt with crappy docs that wouldn't --- didn't know what they were doing...it was under their care that I ended up needing crutches to walk.... long term low dose is what caused that (I have no thyroid gland function, remember, they gave me RAI and killed the whole thing off)... It's been just over three years that I've been self treating with natural. Right now I'm at a stall. No really visible/noticeable improvements.....

Questions that come to my mind with this include that this just be the top end/high point of my recovery.... or possibly that there are environmental and /or stress issues that have me stalled at this point... You mention some stress in your life and the addition of moving... that can cause the body to stop the healing process and just deal with the day to day situation and concentrate on dealing with it..... That's why I brought this up... stress.... day to day life and circumstance.... How much of an affect does it have on a body that is battling to regain health? I use the word battling because that is what it is... the body does all kinds of adjustments and compromises to continue to function when hormones and eating habits and stuff cause it to have to function under less than ideal situations.

.... I'm on a ponder here... sorry...

If our body has worked for a period of time in an 'alternate' mode to be able to function... how much effort is needed for it to get out of it's new 'safe zone' and go back to normal function. If you consider that our body's main function is to continue to live by doing whatever it needs to do to do that, might it be that the chemistry involved with all the zillions of processes that go on in our bodies and minds each and every day get 'hard wired' in the new mode and the survival instinct/reflex of our bodies are having a hard time going back to normal?

I'll stop with that thought and see what you guys think..... I'm afraid I'm having one of those days when I'm going to be thinking not only outside the box, but maybe around the corner and down the block a ways!!! hehehehe

Topper ()

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

< snip >

I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. Itfeels good to be taking such good care of myself --but it's frustrating to not see the results and to beso young ... : (Marlena

[Guest guest]

Marlena, I don't mean to discourage, but keep in mind... with all this thyroid stuff, it often takes years for the body to get really run down and show symptoms. It also can take years for the symptoms to be resolved... to top that off, the longer things are messed up the less likely your body will be to recover.

No, no, don't hit the screen!!!

I dealt with crappy docs that wouldn't --- didn't know what they were doing...it was under their care that I ended up needing crutches to walk.... long term low dose is what caused that (I have no thyroid gland function, remember, they gave me RAI and killed the whole thing off)... It's been just over three years that I've been self treating with natural. Right now I'm at a stall. No really visible/noticeable improvements.....

Questions that come to my mind with this include that this just be the top end/high point of my recovery.... or possibly that there are environmental and /or stress issues that have me stalled at this point... You mention some stress in your life and the addition of moving... that can cause the body to stop the healing process and just deal with the day to day situation and concentrate on dealing with it..... That's why I brought this up... stress.... day to day life and circumstance.... How much of an affect does it have on a body that is battling to regain health? I use the word battling because that is what it is... the body does all kinds of adjustments and compromises to continue to function when hormones and eating habits and stuff cause it to have to function under less than ideal situations.

.... I'm on a ponder here... sorry...

If our body has worked for a period of time in an 'alternate' mode to be able to function... how much effort is needed for it to get out of it's new 'safe zone' and go back to normal function. If you consider that our body's main function is to continue to live by doing whatever it needs to do to do that, might it be that the chemistry involved with all the zillions of processes that go on in our bodies and minds each and every day get 'hard wired' in the new mode and the survival instinct/reflex of our bodies are having a hard time going back to normal?

I'll stop with that thought and see what you guys think..... I'm afraid I'm having one of those days when I'm going to be thinking not only outside the box, but maybe around the corner and down the block a ways!!! hehehehe

Topper ()

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

< snip >

I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. Itfeels good to be taking such good care of myself --but it's frustrating to not see the results and to beso young ... : (Marlena

[Guest guest]

Marlena:

Yes it is true that your sex hormones can get obliterated by your lack of thryoid hormone. That is why its good to check those..including the ones related to adrenal. So at any rate it sounds like you are getting a good run of tests.

I wrote the letters incorrectly sex hormone binding globulin. (SHBG) If its high..it means its got your androgens and your thryoid hormones. This can make you feel really weak. It gets high when you take HRT sometimes or birth control pills or birth control gels. Its good to know if its playing a role in your thryoid results...you want to know something like that so you can work around that.

This is a VERY obscure fact...so your doc may not know this.

Best to you..

~E:)

~EG Connecticut Total-T 16 months ago / 37.5 mg Synthetic/120mg Armour since August 7th

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper, I respond in text:

--- topper2@... wrote:

> Marlena, I don't mean to discourage, but keep in

> mind... with all this

> thyroid stuff, it often takes years for the body to

> get really run down

> and show symptoms. It also can take years for the

> symptoms to be

> resolved... to top that off, the longer things are

> messed up the less

> likely your body will be to recover.

>

> No, no, don't hit the screen!!!

Don't worry Topper, you aren't discouraging me and I'm

not hitting the screen! In fact, in some ways, it is

good to know that I am not a hopeless case but that it

just might take time!!! I know I inherited a lot and

it took many years to develop. For whatever it's

worth, the medical intuitive I keep mentioning, said

that my severe trace mineral deficiency (which she

thinks is behind much of my thyroid/adrenal issues --

and it's interesting because Aldosterone, the one

adrenal hormone of mine that didn't go up as it should

after the ACTH stimulation is a mineralcorticoid and

in charge of electrolyte balance) started when I was 7

years old. And when I was 15 I was exposed to some

pretty serious heavy metals ... anyway as woo woo as

this is, it seems to correlate with how my health has

disintegrated over the years. Also, I'll mention

another slightly woo woo topic. I am 29, and going

through my Saturn Return, as astrologers call it (I " ve

mentioned this before so bear with me if it's not your

cup of tea). Saturn is known to show you where you are

weak, so that you can fix it and get stronger. Usually

it refers to mental/emotional stuff -- but it makes

sense that it would also refer to physical stuff and

now everything that was in the works all my life, is

coming to a peak -- so that I really see it and make

the necessary changes! I just start feeling hopeless

when I lose faith that it will ever get better ...

> I dealt with crappy docs that wouldn't --- didn't

> know what they were

> doing...it was under their care that I ended up

> needing crutches to

> walk.... long term low dose is what caused that (I

> have no thyroid gland

> function, remember, they gave me RAI and killed the

> whole thing off)...

I am always inspired when I read about your story and

everything you went through!!!

> It's been just over three years that I've been self

> treating with

> natural. Right now I'm at a stall. No really

> visible/noticeable

> improvements.....

>

> Questions that come to my mind with this include

> that this just be the

> top end/high point of my recovery.... or possibly

> that there are

> environmental and /or stress issues that have me

> stalled at this point...

Those seem like good questions ... I certainly hope

and pray that this is not the end point in your

recovery!!

> You mention some stress in your life and the

> addition of moving... that

> can cause the body to stop the healing process and

> just deal with the day

> to day situation and concentrate on dealing with

> it..... That's why I

> brought this up... stress.... day to day life and

> circumstance.... How

> much of an affect does it have on a body that is

> battling to regain

> health? I use the word battling because that is what

> it is... the body

> does all kinds of adjustments and compromises to

> continue to function

> when hormones and eating habits and stuff cause it

> to have to function

> under less than ideal situations.

>

> ... I'm on a ponder here... sorry...

>

> If our body has worked for a period of time in an

> 'alternate' mode to be

> able to function... how much effort is needed for it

> to get out of it's

> new 'safe zone' and go back to normal function. If

> you consider that our

> body's main function is to continue to live by doing

> whatever it needs to

> do to do that, might it be that the chemistry

> involved with all the

> zillions of processes that go on in our bodies and

> minds each and every

> day get 'hard wired' in the new mode and the

> survival instinct/reflex of

> our bodies are having a hard time going back to

> normal?

>

> I'll stop with that thought and see what you guys

> think..... I'm afraid

> I'm having one of those days when I'm going to be

> thinking not only

> outside the box, but maybe around the corner and

> down the block a ways!!!

> hehehehe

Actually, the way you put it makes a lot of sense. And

I've sometimes pondered about similar things -- like

sometimes I've noticed that my body seems to be trying

to maintain a certain status quo that it is used to --

regardless of how f___ed up that status quo is and a

bit resistant to creating new " wiring " or whatever!

Sorry for my language but you know how it is! But

seriously I have also come to realize that my body and

all of our bodies are really doing the absolute best

that they can so I don't mean to be cursing at my

body! I know it's really working and compensating to

get me through the day ...

Marlena

> Topper ()

>

> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

> writes:

> < snip >

>

> I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. It

> feels good to be taking such good care of myself --

> but it's frustrating to not see the results and to

> be

> so young ... : (

>

> Marlena

____________________________________________________

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper, I respond in text:

--- topper2@... wrote:

> Marlena, I don't mean to discourage, but keep in

> mind... with all this

> thyroid stuff, it often takes years for the body to

> get really run down

> and show symptoms. It also can take years for the

> symptoms to be

> resolved... to top that off, the longer things are

> messed up the less

> likely your body will be to recover.

>

> No, no, don't hit the screen!!!

Don't worry Topper, you aren't discouraging me and I'm

not hitting the screen! In fact, in some ways, it is

good to know that I am not a hopeless case but that it

just might take time!!! I know I inherited a lot and

it took many years to develop. For whatever it's

worth, the medical intuitive I keep mentioning, said

that my severe trace mineral deficiency (which she

thinks is behind much of my thyroid/adrenal issues --

and it's interesting because Aldosterone, the one

adrenal hormone of mine that didn't go up as it should

after the ACTH stimulation is a mineralcorticoid and

in charge of electrolyte balance) started when I was 7

years old. And when I was 15 I was exposed to some

pretty serious heavy metals ... anyway as woo woo as

this is, it seems to correlate with how my health has

disintegrated over the years. Also, I'll mention

another slightly woo woo topic. I am 29, and going

through my Saturn Return, as astrologers call it (I " ve

mentioned this before so bear with me if it's not your

cup of tea). Saturn is known to show you where you are

weak, so that you can fix it and get stronger. Usually

it refers to mental/emotional stuff -- but it makes

sense that it would also refer to physical stuff and

now everything that was in the works all my life, is

coming to a peak -- so that I really see it and make

the necessary changes! I just start feeling hopeless

when I lose faith that it will ever get better ...

> I dealt with crappy docs that wouldn't --- didn't

> know what they were

> doing...it was under their care that I ended up

> needing crutches to

> walk.... long term low dose is what caused that (I

> have no thyroid gland

> function, remember, they gave me RAI and killed the

> whole thing off)...

I am always inspired when I read about your story and

everything you went through!!!

> It's been just over three years that I've been self

> treating with

> natural. Right now I'm at a stall. No really

> visible/noticeable

> improvements.....

>

> Questions that come to my mind with this include

> that this just be the

> top end/high point of my recovery.... or possibly

> that there are

> environmental and /or stress issues that have me

> stalled at this point...

Those seem like good questions ... I certainly hope

and pray that this is not the end point in your

recovery!!

> You mention some stress in your life and the

> addition of moving... that

> can cause the body to stop the healing process and

> just deal with the day

> to day situation and concentrate on dealing with

> it..... That's why I

> brought this up... stress.... day to day life and

> circumstance.... How

> much of an affect does it have on a body that is

> battling to regain

> health? I use the word battling because that is what

> it is... the body

> does all kinds of adjustments and compromises to

> continue to function

> when hormones and eating habits and stuff cause it

> to have to function

> under less than ideal situations.

>

> ... I'm on a ponder here... sorry...

>

> If our body has worked for a period of time in an

> 'alternate' mode to be

> able to function... how much effort is needed for it

> to get out of it's

> new 'safe zone' and go back to normal function. If

> you consider that our

> body's main function is to continue to live by doing

> whatever it needs to

> do to do that, might it be that the chemistry

> involved with all the

> zillions of processes that go on in our bodies and

> minds each and every

> day get 'hard wired' in the new mode and the

> survival instinct/reflex of

> our bodies are having a hard time going back to

> normal?

>

> I'll stop with that thought and see what you guys

> think..... I'm afraid

> I'm having one of those days when I'm going to be

> thinking not only

> outside the box, but maybe around the corner and

> down the block a ways!!!

> hehehehe

Actually, the way you put it makes a lot of sense. And

I've sometimes pondered about similar things -- like

sometimes I've noticed that my body seems to be trying

to maintain a certain status quo that it is used to --

regardless of how f___ed up that status quo is and a

bit resistant to creating new " wiring " or whatever!

Sorry for my language but you know how it is! But

seriously I have also come to realize that my body and

all of our bodies are really doing the absolute best

that they can so I don't mean to be cursing at my

body! I know it's really working and compensating to

get me through the day ...

Marlena

> Topper ()

>

> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

> writes:

> < snip >

>

> I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. It

> feels good to be taking such good care of myself --

> but it's frustrating to not see the results and to

> be

> so young ... : (

>

> Marlena

____________________________________________________

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper, I respond in text:

--- topper2@... wrote:

> Marlena, I don't mean to discourage, but keep in

> mind... with all this

> thyroid stuff, it often takes years for the body to

> get really run down

> and show symptoms. It also can take years for the

> symptoms to be

> resolved... to top that off, the longer things are

> messed up the less

> likely your body will be to recover.

>

> No, no, don't hit the screen!!!

Don't worry Topper, you aren't discouraging me and I'm

not hitting the screen! In fact, in some ways, it is

good to know that I am not a hopeless case but that it

just might take time!!! I know I inherited a lot and

it took many years to develop. For whatever it's

worth, the medical intuitive I keep mentioning, said

that my severe trace mineral deficiency (which she

thinks is behind much of my thyroid/adrenal issues --

and it's interesting because Aldosterone, the one

adrenal hormone of mine that didn't go up as it should

after the ACTH stimulation is a mineralcorticoid and

in charge of electrolyte balance) started when I was 7

years old. And when I was 15 I was exposed to some

pretty serious heavy metals ... anyway as woo woo as

this is, it seems to correlate with how my health has

disintegrated over the years. Also, I'll mention

another slightly woo woo topic. I am 29, and going

through my Saturn Return, as astrologers call it (I " ve

mentioned this before so bear with me if it's not your

cup of tea). Saturn is known to show you where you are

weak, so that you can fix it and get stronger. Usually

it refers to mental/emotional stuff -- but it makes

sense that it would also refer to physical stuff and

now everything that was in the works all my life, is

coming to a peak -- so that I really see it and make

the necessary changes! I just start feeling hopeless

when I lose faith that it will ever get better ...

> I dealt with crappy docs that wouldn't --- didn't

> know what they were

> doing...it was under their care that I ended up

> needing crutches to

> walk.... long term low dose is what caused that (I

> have no thyroid gland

> function, remember, they gave me RAI and killed the

> whole thing off)...

I am always inspired when I read about your story and

everything you went through!!!

> It's been just over three years that I've been self

> treating with

> natural. Right now I'm at a stall. No really

> visible/noticeable

> improvements.....

>

> Questions that come to my mind with this include

> that this just be the

> top end/high point of my recovery.... or possibly

> that there are

> environmental and /or stress issues that have me

> stalled at this point...

Those seem like good questions ... I certainly hope

and pray that this is not the end point in your

recovery!!

> You mention some stress in your life and the

> addition of moving... that

> can cause the body to stop the healing process and

> just deal with the day

> to day situation and concentrate on dealing with

> it..... That's why I

> brought this up... stress.... day to day life and

> circumstance.... How

> much of an affect does it have on a body that is

> battling to regain

> health? I use the word battling because that is what

> it is... the body

> does all kinds of adjustments and compromises to

> continue to function

> when hormones and eating habits and stuff cause it

> to have to function

> under less than ideal situations.

>

> ... I'm on a ponder here... sorry...

>

> If our body has worked for a period of time in an

> 'alternate' mode to be

> able to function... how much effort is needed for it

> to get out of it's

> new 'safe zone' and go back to normal function. If

> you consider that our

> body's main function is to continue to live by doing

> whatever it needs to

> do to do that, might it be that the chemistry

> involved with all the

> zillions of processes that go on in our bodies and

> minds each and every

> day get 'hard wired' in the new mode and the

> survival instinct/reflex of

> our bodies are having a hard time going back to

> normal?

>

> I'll stop with that thought and see what you guys

> think..... I'm afraid

> I'm having one of those days when I'm going to be

> thinking not only

> outside the box, but maybe around the corner and

> down the block a ways!!!

> hehehehe

Actually, the way you put it makes a lot of sense. And

I've sometimes pondered about similar things -- like

sometimes I've noticed that my body seems to be trying

to maintain a certain status quo that it is used to --

regardless of how f___ed up that status quo is and a

bit resistant to creating new " wiring " or whatever!

Sorry for my language but you know how it is! But

seriously I have also come to realize that my body and

all of our bodies are really doing the absolute best

that they can so I don't mean to be cursing at my

body! I know it's really working and compensating to

get me through the day ...

Marlena

> Topper ()

>

> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

> writes:

> < snip >

>

> I truly do hope it is all worthwhile in the end. It

> feels good to be taking such good care of myself --

> but it's frustrating to not see the results and to

> be

> so young ... : (

>

> Marlena

____________________________________________________

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs