Re: Thyroid scan questions...

[Guest guest]

Hi --

The only thing I can give you is a number comparison: Joe's radiation uptake

was in the 60-70 percentile (I forget what it was). Not sure if this is

useful or not.

Ann

[Guest guest]

> Hello,

Hi !

> I was wondering if someone could help me. I went for a thyroid

> scan today, and the tech told me some of what they found. Obviously

> I have to go back in the morning to do another scan, but I don't

> really understand what he told me. He said that I was " very

> elevated. " He gave me a percentage, and I really don't know what the

> number is a precentage of. But, he said that normal is 10%, and that

> mine is 37%. (Sorry this doesn't make sense.)

The scan is just to determine how quickly your thyroid gland is taking

up iodine. It is part of diagnosis, and while perhaps not necessary,

it's basically nothing to fear. It is a tool for deciding if it's

Graves you've got, or not.

> So...is that really high?

My first reading when I was scanned was 60% so I'd say yours is high,

but just how high? well that's relative.

> I'm kinda confused to what this scan is actually for, since

> I've gotten conflicting answers. Isn't it just part of the

> diagnosis? Does this mean that my Endo is planning on using

> radiactive treatment?

Possibly your Doc sees you as a candidate for RAI, but maybe not. I

had the scan and was put right onto ATD's (antithyroid meds) No

mention was made of RAI until much later when I was on the verge of

remission and my levels were freaking out.

> Again, sorry that I'm asking beginner

> questions, but I guess you have to start somewhere. Thanks for

> helping me.

You've got to start somewhere, so more apologies!! Glad to see you

here. Well, sort of glad..you know, glad you found us, not glad you're

sick.

Val

[Guest guest]

Hi -

It sounds like they did a RAIU (which is not RAI-in RAIU they use a

different radioiodine isotope that doesn't destroy your thyroid) on you.

It's an RAI uptake exam for testing not treating. Iodine is normally taken

up by the thyroid gland but when you're hyperthyroid, even more iodine is

taken up. They use a radioactive isotope of iodine which is visible on a

scan. The more radioactive iodine that is taken up, the more hyperthyroid

you are.

I know that 37% is hyperthyroid but I don't know if that's higher than most

of the people with Graves' on this board. Maybe someone else will jump in

and let you know. It has been so long since I had RAIU done that I can't

remember what mine was.

Make sure you take your time making any decision regarding treatments. I

was told that I didn't have any choice about treatment and that I had to

have RAI 15 years ago. I've had nothing but problems since. It took 11

years for them to figure out that I had trouble converting T4 (supplement

thyroid hormone) to T3 (active thyroid hormone). It was a problem that I

didn't have before having RAI.

One of the hardest aspects about being hyperthyroid is not having the

patience we normally have and wanting it all to be over with soon. Some of

us have chosen permanent options and done well and others have chosen

permanent options and not done well. It's a crapshoot and it's a decision

that affects the rest of your life and shouldn't be rushed.

Take care,

Thyroid scan questions...

> Hello,

> I was wondering if someone could help me. I went for a thyroid

> scan today, and the tech told me some of what they found. Obviously

> I have to go back in the morning to do another scan, but I don't

> really understand what he told me. He said that I was " very

> elevated. " He gave me a percentage, and I really don't know what the

> number is a precentage of. But, he said that normal is 10%, and that

> mine is 37%. (Sorry this doesn't make sense.) So...is that really

> high? I'm kinda confused to what this scan is actually for, since

> I've gotten conflicting answers. Isn't it just part of the

> diagnosis? Does this mean that my Endo is planning on using

> radiactive treatment? Again, sorry that I'm asking beginner

> questions, but I guess you have to start somewhere. Thanks for

> helping me.

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , I have not had a scan so I can't answer most of your questions.

But yes, this " should " only be used as a diagnostic tool, though as I said

before, it's outdated and not necessary most of the time. Mostly what this

is used for is to figure out how much RA 131 to use to kill your thyroid.

What I want you to hear and know before tomorrow, is this: *Sometimes* after

a thyroid scan, they will try to talk you into doing RAI - RA 131 - the

stuff that kills your thyroid. If they tell you this, if they push it,

whatever you do, don't buy into it, and don't do it. You are 1.) too young

to expose yourself and any future children to that radiation, and 2.) too

new at this and don't have enough information to make an educated decision.

Don't worry about asking beginner questions or any other questions for that

matter! That's how we all started to learn about this so we could take

charge of our care. So keep asking them!

Pam B.

[Guest guest]

Val,

Be glad you have the chance to ask questions. I had the uptake while still

in ICU then 3 days out of hospital was given RIA.

I was never told what my percentage was. Was just told I had GD.

While the radiologist was telling me about the RIA, like not to hug anyone

and such for so many days... He sat clear across the room from me. Said he

could not blieve he could see my thyroid from where he was sitting..lol...

They said tapazol was lowering my levels but was told the RIA would end all

my problems... I wish I had known about this group back then.. I can't change

what was done so now just try and take one day at a time and pray for when I'm

evened out...

All my life I was told the only dumb question was the one not asked..

Take care,

Becki

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

I see you've gotten some responses to your question. I just wanted to tell

you that when I had my uptake and scan (last December) the first reading was

67%. They're just measuring how much iodine your thyroid processes compared

to normal people. Mine was so high that they told me I HAD to have RAI. I

found a second opinion and read a lot. Decided to try anti thyroid drugs

and am doing fine on them. Take everyone's advice and educate yourself as

much as possible. I've found that this is a disease that most doctors don't

know a whole lot about. THey think RAI will " cure " you, which it won't. It

just trades one set of problems for another. I had doctors try to scare me

into the risks associated with ATD's (anti thyroid drugs) liver failure,

agranulocitosis, etc. While I did have some itching and hives on the

highest possible dose, those things resolved once I got my meds down and my

thryoid levels improved. Also, you need to find a doc who is willing to

give you regular blood tests, to make sure that once you're on medication

you don't go HYPO which is really not fun. If you would like to ask me any

questions, feel free to email me privately or on the board. I know how

scary and confusing it is to have this diagnosis and not know what to do or

where to go for Info. Has anyone suggested Elaine 's book to you?

Also an invaluable resource. She's on vacation right now, but has answered

some questions for me on this board. Very nice and helpful lady! Good luck

and don't be scared!

Kristi

Thyroid scan questions...

> Hello,

> I was wondering if someone could help me. I went for a thyroid

> scan today, and the tech told me some of what they found. Obviously

> I have to go back in the morning to do another scan, but I don't

> really understand what he told me. He said that I was " very

> elevated. " He gave me a percentage, and I really don't know what the

> number is a precentage of. But, he said that normal is 10%, and that

> mine is 37%. (Sorry this doesn't make sense.) So...is that really

> high? I'm kinda confused to what this scan is actually for, since

> I've gotten conflicting answers. Isn't it just part of the

> diagnosis? Does this mean that my Endo is planning on using

> radiactive treatment? Again, sorry that I'm asking beginner

> questions, but I guess you have to start somewhere. Thanks for

> helping me.

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi !

Don't worry about the questions - we were all beginners once! Sounds like

you had the 4 hour uptake scan (I assume you go back for a 24 hour reading).

37% is elevated and is a likely indicator of Graves'. As for if it's really

high, like someone else said, it's all relative. Mine was 36% and along with

my other tests, the doc said I had a mild case. Generally, this test is used

to rule out other causes of hyperthyroidism and confirm Graves'. It's also

used to determine if the iodine is distributed uniformly throughout the

thyroid gland, or whether it is concentrated in spots, which could indicate

" hot nodules " .

Be forewarned that your doc may use this results to " scare " you and telling

you that you have to have RAI. This scan and RAI are 2 separate things. Docs

may use the results from the scan to determine how much RAI to give a

patient, but just because you have the scan doesn't mean you're committed to

having RAI at this point.

Good luck!

Thyroid scan questions...

> Hello,

> I was wondering if someone could help me. I went for a thyroid

> scan today, and the tech told me some of what they found. Obviously

> I have to go back in the morning to do another scan, but I don't

> really understand what he told me. He said that I was " very

> elevated. " He gave me a percentage, and I really don't know what the

> number is a precentage of. But, he said that normal is 10%, and that

> mine is 37%. (Sorry this doesn't make sense.) So...is that really

> high? I'm kinda confused to what this scan is actually for, since

> I've gotten conflicting answers. Isn't it just part of the

> diagnosis? Does this mean that my Endo is planning on using

> radiactive treatment? Again, sorry that I'm asking beginner

> questions, but I guess you have to start somewhere. Thanks for

> helping me.

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

The thyroid scan is typically with I-123, which has a photon (like light, but

more energetic) about 1/3 as strong as the I-131 that is used to abate (damage)

the thyroid (RIA). The total dose to you is very, very small. The activity

given initially is 1/20 to 1/30 the typical abatement activity, so the dose

(which takes into account photon energy) is less than 1/100 a low RIA dose. In

my case, they used 1/2 millicurie.

Scans can also be done with I-131 and Tc-99. Personally, I think these are

inferior. The first gives a higher, though still small, dose with little (or

no) benefit over I-123. The later isn't iodine, so the uptake isn't exactly

like iodine.

The typical person will uptake 20 to 30% of the iodine in their blood into the

thyroid (there is essentially 100% uptake of iodine from the stomach to the

blood, and this happens quickly - a couple hours). My uptake was 33% which is

high, but not sky high. Some people who are extremely hyper will uptake in the

80s and 90s %.

The body treats iodine as a chemical. It can't tell the difference between

different isotopes. So your uptake of I-123 will match your uptake of natural

(non-radioactive) iodine, I-131, or any other iodine isotope. One consideration

is that if you eat a lot of iodine and then take the test, your total (true)

uptake will be higher than the measured uptake since only the I-123 portion will

be measured. Therefore, you probably had to fast before the pill, and then

avoid kelp, shell fish, and table salt for the duration of the test - in my case

12 hours before and 24 hours during.

I disagree that this is an outdated test. This is proof positive of the

presence or absence of a nodule or tumor (or nodules or tumors), provides a 3-D

view of the thyroid (reveals what's inside, behind, etc.), reveals the nature of

the tissues involved (normal uptake, cold nodule, hot nodule, etc.), proves the

thyroid size and volume, and provides an uptake measurement. Hashimoto's

victims will have abnormally low uptake, so this test helps eliminate (or

confirm) that disease. All this is with a trivial dose to you.

Actual scans can be taken at 6, 12, or 24 hours after ingestion - depending on

what they are looking for, and doctor preference. What isn't uptaken into the

thyroid, is expelled from the body (sweat, urine, feces) in a few days.

Your uptake is high, solidly out of normal, but not out of sight. This

indicates you are hyperthyroidic, but not as bad as you could be. A diagnosis

of Graves should involve more information (such as: was the uptake evenly

distributed - no nodules or tumors; is your TSH low - is your brain and

pituitary working right, possibly antibody tests, etc.).

Hope this helps and makes sense.

Devin

Thyroid scan questions...

Hello,

I was wondering if someone could help me. I went for a thyroid

scan today, and the tech told me some of what they found. Obviously

I have to go back in the morning to do another scan, but I don't

really understand what he told me. He said that I was " very

elevated. " He gave me a percentage, and I really don't know what the

number is a precentage of. But, he said that normal is 10%, and that

mine is 37%. (Sorry this doesn't make sense.) So...is that really

high? I'm kinda confused to what this scan is actually for, since

I've gotten conflicting answers. Isn't it just part of the

diagnosis? Does this mean that my Endo is planning on using

radiactive treatment? Again, sorry that I'm asking beginner

questions, but I guess you have to start somewhere. Thanks for

helping me.

[Guest guest]

Devin said:

> I disagree that this is an outdated test. This is proof positive of the

presence or absence of a nodule or tumor (or nodules or tumors), provides a

3-D view of the thyroid (reveals what's inside, behind, etc.), reveals the

nature of the tissues involved .(normal uptake, cold nodule, hot nodule,

etc.), proves the thyroid size and volume, and provides an uptake

measurement. Hashimoto's victims will have abnormally low uptake, so this

test helps eliminate (or confirm) that disease. All this is with a trivial

dose to you.

Until some doctor or informed person can tell me what an uptake/scan will

show them that blood tests and an ultrasound, along with a thorough

understanding of the symptoms, can't tell them, I will stand by my statement

that RAI-U is outdated and unnecessary. Blood tests and an ultrasound are

much less invasive, especially if someone happens to be allergic to iodine.

People *can* have bad reactions to the uptake/scan. The blood tests will

show what antibodies are present and the ultrasound will determine if there

are any nodules. And I don't think any amount of radiation is trivial. The

radiation I received in a visit to the ER, given in a contrast iodine dye

and barium is what triggered my hyperthyroidism. I'm 100% positive of it,

and will avoid any radiation in the future unless it is absolutely

necessary. The uptake test is not absolutely necessary.

Pam B.

http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

" Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans " - Lennon

[Guest guest]

I've got graves also, when I had my scan it came back 76% for what its worth.

[Guest guest]

Antibody test are only about 50% positive with Graves. A negative test does not

preclude Graves. A positive test does not prove Graves.

The uptake test just is. And the scan just is. Biology and physics result in

the final product. Many doctors can then look at the results. You can look at

the scan. On the other hand, the ultrasound is hard to interpret and there is

nothing to see but what is captured by the skill, or lack of skill, of the tech

who performs it. It is cheap and easy. But it does not replace the uptake

scan, particularly an ultrasound scan that show nothing unusual in density. It

is not as resolved. The nature of nodules or tumors found by ultrasound will

not be known. In an uptake test, the scan will reveal the nature of the nodule

(cold, normal, hot).

The iodine in the uptake scan pill is far less than in a spoon of table salt.

The sodium in the scan pill is far less than in a spoon of table salt. What

" bad reaction " do think the pill or scan cause?

In terms of invasive - it's as invasive as taking an aspirin. A blood test

needle is far more invasive. The scan and uptake survey is not invasive.

And if you fear radiation in these levels, you are in big trouble. Your world

is radioactive and you live in it your whole life. You breath it in each breath

(radon) and you stand in it every second (background and cosmic radiation).

It's in your food and water. For sure, don't get a dental X-ray.

Contrast iodine dye and barium are nothing like the tiny amount of I-123 given

for the uptake test and scan, even to the way they are delivered.

Worry and self stress about the test is a more likely your trigger. This is not

a blow off of your concerns, but a belief I have that gains support every day.

Stress does horrible things to our bodies over time. And uncontrolled stress

about things we don't understand is some of the worst stress of all. Then do

this while we are down and sick - a very bad combination. Much of the

responsibility for reducing stress is on the nuclear medicine people: techs and

doctors. ly, my experience is that the average Joe (or Jane) has little

chance to find out enough from these people to have any of their self stress

reduced.

This is a test that provides a great deal of information. You do a disservice

by generating unnecessary fear about it - especially to someone who has already

had the test.

Devin

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

Devin said:

> I disagree that this is an outdated test. This is proof positive of the

presence or absence of a nodule or tumor (or nodules or tumors), provides a

3-D view of the thyroid (reveals what's inside, behind, etc.), reveals the

nature of the tissues involved .(normal uptake, cold nodule, hot nodule,

etc.), proves the thyroid size and volume, and provides an uptake

measurement. Hashimoto's victims will have abnormally low uptake, so this

test helps eliminate (or confirm) that disease. All this is with a trivial

dose to you.

Until some doctor or informed person can tell me what an uptake/scan will

show them that blood tests and an ultrasound, along with a thorough

understanding of the symptoms, can't tell them, I will stand by my statement

that RAI-U is outdated and unnecessary. Blood tests and an ultrasound are

much less invasive, especially if someone happens to be allergic to iodine.

People *can* have bad reactions to the uptake/scan. The blood tests will

show what antibodies are present and the ultrasound will determine if there

are any nodules. And I don't think any amount of radiation is trivial. The

radiation I received in a visit to the ER, given in a contrast iodine dye

and barium is what triggered my hyperthyroidism. I'm 100% positive of it,

and will avoid any radiation in the future unless it is absolutely

necessary. The uptake test is not absolutely necessary.

Pam B.

http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

" Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans " - Lennon

[Guest guest]

Well, Devin, you are stressing me out now, thank you very much. Elaine even

has told me the test is outdated, and I trust her more than any doctor I've

seen. The endo I just saw told me the test wouldn't prove anything or be

anything more than " interesting information " . When I had an uptake scan

scheduled, many people wrote to me to tell me it was unnecessary, and

possibly dangerous. One person, I honestly don't remember who, said they

had a really bad reaction to it, with their throat closing up and making it

hard for them to breath. I cancelled the test, and I'm really happy I did.

I've seen about 10 doctors now, and none of them could tell me that the

uptake scan would give them any more useful information than what we already

have about my thyroid. My naturopaths are as happy as me that I didn't

unnecessarily expose myself to more radiation. If I'm giving out bad

information, it's because MANY people have given it to me.

For your information, I don't get dental x-rays every year, I refuse them

quite often, only doing them when necessary. Yes we are exposed to too much

radiation in our daily lives, and much of it we can't control. But we can

control some things, and those things we should be informed about before we

agree to them.

And I think anyone who is in the process of having an uptake scan should

know about the people who, just minutes or hours later, are pushed into

doing RAI " while they are already there " . It happens, and usually the

people who it happens to are new to this and don't fully understand their

options. It's a crime really.

Please stop attacking me on this, I'm done talking about it - and feeling

really stressed, when only a minute ago I got a phone call from a new doctor

and I was on cloud nine thinking she might be " it " . I should probably just

ignore it all, but it's written now and I'm going to hit the send button.

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

>

>

> Devin said:

>

> > I disagree that this is an outdated test. This is proof positive of

the

> presence or absence of a nodule or tumor (or nodules or tumors),

provides a

> 3-D view of the thyroid (reveals what's inside, behind, etc.), reveals

the

> nature of the tissues involved .(normal uptake, cold nodule, hot nodule,

> etc.), proves the thyroid size and volume, and provides an uptake

> measurement. Hashimoto's victims will have abnormally low uptake, so

this

> test helps eliminate (or confirm) that disease. All this is with a

trivial

> dose to you.

>

> Until some doctor or informed person can tell me what an uptake/scan

will

> show them that blood tests and an ultrasound, along with a thorough

> understanding of the symptoms, can't tell them, I will stand by my

statement

> that RAI-U is outdated and unnecessary. Blood tests and an ultrasound

are

> much less invasive, especially if someone happens to be allergic to

iodine.

> People *can* have bad reactions to the uptake/scan. The blood tests

will

> show what antibodies are present and the ultrasound will determine if

there

> are any nodules. And I don't think any amount of radiation is trivial.

The

> radiation I received in a visit to the ER, given in a contrast iodine

dye

> and barium is what triggered my hyperthyroidism. I'm 100% positive of

it,

> and will avoid any radiation in the future unless it is absolutely

> necessary. The uptake test is not absolutely necessary.

>

> Pam B.

>

> http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

>

> " Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans " - Lennon

>

[Guest guest]

> Worry and self stress about the test is a more likely your trigger.

> This is not a blow off of your concerns, but a belief I have that

> gains support every day. Stress does horrible things to our bodies

> over time. And uncontrolled stress about things we don't understand

> is some of the worst stress of all. Then do this while we are down

> and sick - a very bad combination.

Devin,

You bring up solid points. My husband, the devout physicist, is

forever keeping my fears about this kind of thing in check. He is the

kind of guy who says, " sure we'll buy 'organic' produce, but all food

is really 'organic'. He told me the same thing about the RAIU when I

had it roughly 2 years ago. It's no worse than getting an X-ray.

The most important thing though, is the stress question. Now, I know a

lot of folks out there already know that GD is or can be triggered by

stress, but for the newbies and anyone else. Stress and GD are like 2

sides of the same coin. It is always important to work on keeping it

in check. Whatever your methods might be, yoga, meditaion,

waterskiing. It doesn't matter.

I was a worrier and a stress case prior to GD, and I am still battling

it. When I feel " hyper " these post remission days, my labs keep coming

back normal, but honest to God, if I don't manage my stress and worry

properly, soon they will probabaly not be normal.

I think it's an important point for anyone, but particularly for those

with GD. Do whatever it takes to live a stress free. Life's too short!!

Val

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Depending on what region of the country you're in, most reference ranges for

the RAI-U test are 2-12 % at 2 hours and 8-35% at 24 hours. Most people with

GD have considerably higher results, with 97% at 24 hours not being uncommon.

This test is affected by many factors and lacks the sensitivity of the TSI

test. According to researchers at Quest Labs, nearly 100% of GD patients will

have elevated titers of either TSI or TGI. Take care, Elaine

[Guest guest]

Safe radioiodine? Not in my opinion, not in any form!

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/synapseP.html

God bless,

[Guest guest]

Hi Devin,

I have to weigh in on this discussion, and it is just my own

convictions...but I do disagree with you.

>>>Antibody test are only about 50% positive with Graves. A negative test

>>>does not preclude Graves. A positive test does not prove Graves.<<<

It depends on which ab's are being tested...if we have an autoimmune thyroid

disease, in time at least one of them will show up, but maybe not right in

the beginning. A positive ab test may not prove graves but it does prove

autoimmune thyroid disease, and the antibody testing should be used more

widely, especially when a patient is using atd's. They should be used to

judge remission. A wonderful article on thyroid ab's can be read here;

http://www.labodia.com//en/thyroid/review_thyroid_english.htm

>>>The uptake test just is. And the scan just is. Biology and physics

>>>result in the final product. Many doctors can then look at the results.

>>>You can look at the scan. On the other hand, the ultrasound is hard to

>>>interpret and there is nothing to see but what is captured by the skill,

>>>or lack of skill, of the tech who performs it. It is cheap and easy.

>>>But it does not replace the uptake scan, particularly an ultrasound scan

>>>that show nothing unusual in density. It is not as resolved. The nature

>>>of nodules or tumors found by ultrasound will not be known. In an uptake

>>>test, the scan will reveal the nature of the nodule (cold, normal,

>>>hot).<<<

The uptake test just is done with the use of material that is made from

radioactive waste...it just is, whether it be I-123 or I-131 and there are

other ways to view the thyroid without using this garbage.

In your opinion, the ultrasound may be hard to interpret, but I have much

more faith in that than a scan. You say it can not replace the uptake

scan...disagree with you there too.

I happen to have very dense breast tissue, so after having a mammogram which

could not view the breast tissue well enough, I have to go through a breast

ultrasound to get a clear vision of the breast tissue...I no longer do

mammograms, I will ONLY do breast ultrasound because it CAN get through the

denseness of tissue. So, why would it not be able to see the thyroid

clearly, even when it is dense?

As for telling if it is a hot or cold nodule, that may be true, but the same

informatin can be gotten from doing a FNA...not my first choice, but I would

make the choice of an FNA if it meant not swallowing anymore radioactive

waste garbage.

>>>In terms of invasive - it's as invasive as taking an aspirin. A blood

>>>test needle is far more invasive. The scan and uptake survey is not

>>>invasive.<<<

<SIGH> The fact still remains one is still swallowing radioactive waste

material for the scan. I don't call that invasive, but I do call it playing

Russian Roulette when putting this kind of substance in any amount in the

body. I know they tell us it will leave the body in hours, or days or

whatever, but I recently read 2 different medical article on pubmed I

believe, maybe from Stanford where after a patient was still found to have

much higher levels of I-131 in their bodies 4000, yes 4 thousand, days after

swallowing that pill. Our bodies are all different, they do not all react

to substances in the same way.

And, without turning this into a debate of I-131 which I am vehemently

opposed to, but have a question about...why is it the DOE is the government

group that has the medical research reports on I-131 and why is it that the

DOE refuses to make public these research studies, some as old as 60 years

old? Why is it only a few that show 'positive' conclusions are all they

will make public? This I know, because I have been calling them and

hounding them. I want to see them ALL.

Just as with many other radioactive medical *cure* that were common,

considered safe and found all over the place, including shoe stores <I

remember these from when I was a child> they have all gone to the

radioactive heaven because they were found to be dangerous. I was hoping to

give you the link for the Radioactive Quack Museum but geocities appears to

be down tonight, or at least this link. If you would like to see it, let me

know and I will try it again tomorrow sometime.

>>>And if you fear radiation in these levels, you are in big trouble. Your

>>>world is radioactive and you live in it your whole life. You breath it

>>>in each breath (radon) and you stand in it every second (background and

>>>cosmic radiation). It's in your food and water. For sure, don't get a

>>>dental X-ray.<<<

I fear any *added* radiation being introduced into my body at all levels.

The things you speak of, well some can not be avoided, but many other things

can me, those done in dental x-rays, those in I-131, I-123, catscans, cancer

treatments...these are things we CAN control, things we CAN make a decision

about putting into our bodies. And no, I wouldn't consider chemo or

radiation as cancer treatment when there are alternatives such as the

treatments offered by The Burzynski Clinic in Texas. Just as I won't do a

mammogram because *I* believe there is more risk of activating sleeping

cancer cells with the abuse and maniuplation of the breast tissue and then

adding radiation to it.

As for dental x-rays...if they can't see the cavity with an exam, then they

will have to wait for it to appear, I don't do them either.

>>>Contrast iodine dye and barium are nothing like the tiny amount of I-123

>>>given for the uptake test and scan, even to the way they are

>>>delivered.<<<

I don't believe there is any such thing as a *tiny* amount of radioactive

waste disguisd as medicine.

>>>Worry and self stress about the test is a more likely your trigger. This

>>>is not a blow off of your concerns, but a belief I have that gains

>>>support every day. Stress does horrible things to our bodies over time.

>>>And uncontrolled stress about things we don't understand is some of the

>>>worst stress of all. Then do this while we are down and sick - a very

>>>bad combination. Much of the responsibility for reducing stress is on

>>>the nuclear medicine people: techs and doctors. ly, my experience is

>>>that the average Joe (or Jane) has little

chance to find out enough from these people to have any of their self stress

reduced.<<<

Your right, stress is our enemy! And stress needs to be alleviated as much

as we possibly can...so why stress over having a scan and uptake when there

ARE viable options that don't add this junk to your body?

I have no faith in nuclear medicine, not at this point, and probably never

will in my lifetime. Nuclear is dangerous and it is bandied about and used

in a NY minute when there are other alternatives. I believe it is used

carelessly and callously with little regard for what this type of *medicine*

can do to our bodies. And yoru right, nuclear medicine people either keep

their mouths shut <while covered in lead to test you> or they blatantly lie

to you about the safety of it's uses. We are nothing more than 'guinea

pigs' in this area of medicine, test subjects where there are NO long term

studies on the repercussions of it's use...this happens because of deals

made with government, FDA and big business, it all comes down to money and

total disregard to the human body.

>>>This is a test that provides a great deal of information. You do a

>>>disservice by generating unnecessary fear about it - especially to

>>>someone who has already had the test.<<<

In your opinion it provided for a great deal of information, in my opinion

an ultrasound and blood tests provide more and better information without

putting any radioactive waste in human bodies. I don't think it was a

disservice for someone expressing their concerns over this aspect of it. I

think it is wonderful that people take the time to educate themselves in all

aspects of medicine anymore... especially when it is done prior to

treatments and options. I have had the scan, I have swallowed the I-131

and I regret it to this day. It is archaic, it is barbaric and in my

opinion, it is very dangerous, in any amount and hopefully one day, it will

finally be relagated to the quack museum of radioactive medicine where it

belongs. I think the reason it is still here is because if any of the

parties involved that, yes, they knew of the dangers and used it anyhow, all

parties <which would include this country as a whole because of the

government agencies involved> would go broke from all the lawsuits. I also

believe that there are *perks* or money exchanged with doctors who push this

treatment so hard without any regard for the consequences of what will

happen 'down the road'.

So, we will have to agree to disagree on this issue or any issue regarding

radiation and nuclear medicine, but thanks to the policies fo this group, we

are able to debate and discuss our points of view ;-)

Take care,

Jody

PS Remember, these are my own opinions and most of them come from all the

research I have done and everyone can take our opinions for whatever they

choose to.

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[Guest guest]

Huh? You expand on what I wrote, but were exactly do you disagree with what I

wrote? While you may eventually test positive for antibodies, research I've

done shows initial testing is a flip of a coin. You seem to agree. Absence of

antibodies for diagnosis does not preclude Graves, and presence could be due to

cancer or Hashimotos - that is, not due to Graves. You seem to agree here as

well. In fact you could be hyper or very hypo, and test positive for antibodies

if you have Hashimotos.

I passed no judgment on antibody tests (or didn't intend to) in general as a

piece to the diagnosis puzzle. You might get lucky and peg your problem - you

might not. I took exception to the statement that information from the thyroid

scan was worthless - or worse it was irresponsible and dangerously gathered -

especially in reference to a request from someone new who already had it done

and was just asking what their results meant.

And I don't mind you disagreeing with me (though I'm not sure you did this

time). This will be a learning experience for you, me, or both of us as long as

everyone weighs in, are respectful, and are treated civilly. :-)

Devin

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

Hi Devin,

I have to weigh in on this discussion, and it is just my own

convictions...but I do disagree with you.

>>>Antibody test are only about 50% positive with Graves. A negative test

>>>does not preclude Graves. A positive test does not prove Graves.<<<

It depends on which ab's are being tested...if we have an autoimmune thyroid

disease, in time at least one of them will show up, but maybe not right in

the beginning. A positive ab test may not prove graves but it does prove

autoimmune thyroid disease, and the antibody testing should be used more

widely, especially when a patient is using atd's. They should be used to

judge remission.

[Guest guest]

Hey Devin,

I had to find something not to debate you on. ;-)

I believe wholeheartedly that antibody testing and an ultrasound is the way

to go before ingesting any form of radioactive waste material.

Jody

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[Guest guest]

All I know is that my thyroid scan caused my to have a thyroid storm which

made me very sick. This was probably caused by the large amount of iodine. I

just wish the doctor had told me that there might be side effects so I could

have made a more informed decision.

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

> Hey Devin,

> I had to find something not to debate you on. ;-)

>

> I believe wholeheartedly that antibody testing and an ultrasound is the

way

> to go before ingesting any form of radioactive waste material.

> Jody

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I-123 is not " radioactive waste material. " It is produced by a very

technologically advanced, expensive, and controlled method of accelerating

particles into atoms to yield the desired isotope. It is done solely to produce

the isotope for human consumption. For that matter, I-131 for human use (which

is produced as a byproduct of uranium fission) is not " nuclear waste " either.

It is produced specifically for human use. There is not reason to refer to

either isotope as " waste. "

Radioactive waste contains, at some point, nearly all the isotopes known to man

- including the iodine isotopes. But comparing that to radiopharmaceuticals is

like equating cow manure to an apple because they both involve things eaten and

contain the element carbon.

Nothing personal. I believe whole heartedly, that you believe whole heartedly -

I don't question your commitment for a moment.

Devin

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

Hey Devin,

I had to find something not to debate you on. ;-)

I believe wholeheartedly that antibody testing and an ultrasound is the way

to go before ingesting any form of radioactive waste material.

Jody

[Guest guest]

Hi Devin,

>>>I-123 is not " radioactive waste material. " <<<

Yes it is made from radioactive waste material. I will have to look for the

urls I have on this, but 60 Minutes and either Dateline or 20/20 did reports

on radioiodine used in medicine and where it comes from this past spring.

It does come from radioactive waste material, the same as I-131.

It will be a bit before I find the urls' as my time on computer right now is

limited because my eyes have done a backslide, but I will find them.

Someone else out there may have them handy too and will share this info with

you.

Jody

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[Guest guest]

A few shakes of a salt shaker yields more iodine. Half a millicurie of a fast

decaying isotope like I-123 is an incredibly small amount of material -

invisible to the naked eye. 10,000 times as much can't be tasted in water. The

iodine tablet used for water purification is easily tasted, and available to

anyone. It is a billion times more iodine, as is many foods, herbs, and

supplements. That this quantity of iodine caused you a problem is as unlikely

as that being the first time you ingested than much iodine.

Just as the binders in T4 supplements cause many of the problems with those

pills, so can the " inactive " substances in the I-123 pill. What were the

binders and fillers used for your pill? What was the pill capsule made of? I

noticed effects from the fast and restricted diet for the scan preparation and

duration. I missed medication for two mornings, and sure felt that. Did this

cause problems for you? What was your stress level? High I would bet. Mine

was, and I knew exactly what was being done, and why - and thought I was

comfortable with it all (it's still stressful).

My doctor says there's no side effects from that amount of iodine, but that all

these other things can effect you.

Devin

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

> Hey Devin,

> I had to find something not to debate you on. ;-)

>

> I believe wholeheartedly that antibody testing and an ultrasound is the

way

> to go before ingesting any form of radioactive waste material.

> Jody

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I stand by my statement. The exact formulation is Sb-121(stable) plus an Alpha

yields I-123 plus two neutrons in what's is referred to as an (Alpha, 2n)

reaction. The Alpha receives enough energy to interact in an accelerator

cyclotron (it is a helium-4 atom stripped of its electrons - that is, ionized

natural helium). The Sb (Antimony) has 51 protons and picks up two more from

the helium to total the 53 of Iodine. This increases the total nuclear

particles of the Sb-121 to 123 leaving two neutrons excess from the helium.

These neutrons could be considered " waste " from this process, but the resulting

I-123 is market product and made with that intent.

Using the term " waste " has only one purpose: to be inflammatory. It simply has

no bases in fact. That the TV news used such a term to boost ratings doesn't

surprise me a bit.

Devin

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

Hi Devin,

>>>I-123 is not " radioactive waste material. " <<<

Yes it is made from radioactive waste material. I will have to look for the

urls I have on this, but 60 Minutes and either Dateline or 20/20 did reports

on radioiodine used in medicine and where it comes from this past spring.

It does come from radioactive waste material, the same as I-131.

It will be a bit before I find the urls' as my time on computer right now is

limited because my eyes have done a backslide, but I will find them.

Someone else out there may have them handy too and will share this info with

you.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

sup everyone. well just wanted to let everyone know that on the 27th of august

im going to take the RAI. i pretty much have no choice. i am not taking the PTU

much longer. i apprieciate everyone comments. more comment on the RAI would be

appriciate it. i m pretty nervous about, but i know i can handle it. i refuse to

be held down by this sorry ass disease. although it killed me.(3 times at that).

its a wierd feeling not being able to move not one muscle in your body,

espicially knowing that i was going to stop breathing. i hope yall have a nice

night talk to you later. thanks, george

vze47vfr wrote:A few shakes of a salt shaker yields more iodine. Half a

millicurie of a fast decaying isotope like I-123 is an incredibly small amount

of material - invisible to the naked eye. 10,000 times as much can't be tasted

in water. The iodine tablet used for water purification is easily tasted, and

available to anyone. It is a billion times more iodine, as is many foods,

herbs, and supplements. That this quantity of iodine caused you a problem is as

unlikely as that being the first time you ingested than much iodine.

Just as the binders in T4 supplements cause many of the problems with those

pills, so can the " inactive " substances in the I-123 pill. What were the

binders and fillers used for your pill? What was the pill capsule made of? I

noticed effects from the fast and restricted diet for the scan preparation and

duration. I missed medication for two mornings, and sure felt that. Did this

cause problems for you? What was your stress level? High I would bet. Mine

was, and I knew exactly what was being done, and why - and thought I was

comfortable with it all (it's still stressful).

My doctor says there's no side effects from that amount of iodine, but that all

these other things can effect you.

Devin

Re: Thyroid scan questions...

> Hey Devin,

> I had to find something not to debate you on. ;-)

>

> I believe wholeheartedly that antibody testing and an ultrasound is the

way

> to go before ingesting any form of radioactive waste material.

> Jody

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I think there are times when RAI is the best choice, and I am glad you

got to look at things and decide what is right for you. I did RAI in

April. I was very hyper when I did it, and the docs here don't

stabilize you with TSD's at all. I was feeling pretty horrible when I

took the pill, and the only physical change I had was a slight sore

throat. I was pretty depressed for a while. The whole idea of taking a

pill to kill a part of myself bothered me, even if that part was giving

me a lot of grief! I didn't have any blood work done for three months.

That is way too long. Whatever you do, get monotored regularly so that

as your hormone levels start to drop you can start up with the

synthetic. That is really important. The last thing you need is to be

left hanging in hypo after all this.

While RAI can cause thyroid storm, it doesn't usually do so, and since

you've been taking PTU, I doubt you have much to worry about there. You

may be a bit more hyper for a bit, but really for how significant the

long term effects are, the short term physical effects tend to be

minimal. Almost anticlimactic! Watch out for signs of thyroid storm or

TED, of course, but they aren't all that likely.

Just keep getting blood work done!

Good luck

-- in Fla.