Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 <BIG SNIP> > > He wont have anticipated > >that. One reason I have been slow to complete it is because I > >actually *cant* say never, becasue I am still very much iunfluenced by > >them, but not necessarily in healthy ways at all. So how do I answer > >this survey? > > But do you *use* them? Being influenced by them isn't the > same thing. > > Hi, Using the steps is kinda like using the ten commandments... kinda hard not to, at least on most of the points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Dear Anti-12 Steppers: I have been enjoying reading the posts from your website. I am on the mailing list and do not wish to be deleted. I also joined Lamplighters and, while I have not tried to cause any controversy, I am enjoying reading the bickering between the members. I will never go to a F2F meeting of AA again, but maybe I should say I intend to never go to an AA meeting again, as we well know ourpropensity to change our minds. I also think we need 12-steps to deprogram from AA. Here are the steps I suggest I take: 1. Decided that we were way too sick or too well to go to AA, that our lives were better off without a one or one and one half hour of being with sicker or people who were healthier than we were. 2. Came to disbelieve in anything, that nothing could help us get well, or keep us sober outside of our own selves. 3. Made adecision to get support for our decision not to be in AA, thinking that anything was better than AA and the manner of living which AA proposes. 4. Tried to stay out of any personal relationships, work relationships, neighborly relationships, because we were inherently bad and evil. 5. Spoke to no one about this. Knew we’d goto our grave with this knowledge. 6. Were not humble, knew humility to be the coverup for people with very large egos who went to AA, very few people in AA meet the definition of humility. 7. Asked for guidance to help us keep our paths from and Aaer’s and e'er do wellers. 8. Made of list of people to avoid, moved to other cities or stayed in the house all day to avoid these people. 9. If providence put these people in our tracks, we walked in front of a moving car to avoid them. 10. Everyday, were grateful not to be in AA anymore, whether we were drinking or not. 11. Started to use our mind again, trusting that we knew right from wrong, and our natural instincts. 12. Having been free from the 12-step influence for a considerable time, and liking ourselves and being able to live with ourselves, we treated others as we wanted to be treated ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 VERY GOOD. IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT.... AND SOUNDS AS BACKWARDSS AS AA DID THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THE ORIGINAL 12 STEPS. > 1. Decided that we were way too sick or too well to go to AA, that our lives > were better off without a one or one and one half hour of being with sicker > or people who were healthier than we were. > > 2. Came to disbelieve in anything, that nothing could help us get well, or > keep us sober outside of our own selves. > > 3. Made adecision to get support for our decision not to be in AA, thinking > that anything was better than AA and the manner of living which AA proposes. > > 4. Tried to stay out of any personal relationships, work relationships, > neighborly relationships, because we were inherently bad and evil. > > 5. Spoke to no one about this. Knew we’d goto our grave with this > knowledge. > > 6. Were not humble, knew humility to be the coverup for people with very > large egos who went to AA, very few people in AA meet the definition of > humility. > > 7. Asked for guidance to help us keep our paths from and Aaer’s and e'er do > wellers. > > 8. Made of list of people to avoid, moved to other cities or stayed in the > house all day to avoid these people. > > 9. If providence put these people in our tracks, we walked in front of a > moving car to avoid them. > > 10. Everyday, were grateful not to be in AA anymore, whether we were > drinking or not. > > 11. Started to use our mind again, trusting that we knew right from wrong, > and our natural instincts. > > 12. Having been free from the 12-step influence for a considerable time, and > liking ourselves and being able to live with ourselves, we treated others as > we wanted to be treated ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 This guy should be booted. > Dear Anti-12 Steppers: > > I have been enjoying reading the posts from your website. I am on the > mailing list and do not wish to be deleted. I also joined Lamplighters and, > while I have not tried to cause any controversy, I am enjoying reading the > bickering between the members. > > I will never go to a F2F meeting of AA again, but maybe I should say I intend > to never go to an AA meeting again, as we well know ourpropensity to change > our minds. I also think we need 12-steps to deprogram from AA. Here are the > steps I suggest I take: > > > 1. Decided that we were way too sick or too well to go to AA, that our lives > were better off without a one or one and one half hour of being with sicker > or people who were healthier than we were. > > 2. Came to disbelieve in anything, that nothing could help us get well, or > keep us sober outside of our own selves. > > 3. Made adecision to get support for our decision not to be in AA, thinking > that anything was better than AA and the manner of living which AA proposes. > > 4. Tried to stay out of any personal relationships, work relationships, > neighborly relationships, because we were inherently bad and evil. > > 5. Spoke to no one about this. Knew we’d goto our grave with this > knowledge. > > 6. Were not humble, knew humility to be the coverup for people with very > large egos who went to AA, very few people in AA meet the definition of > humility. > > 7. Asked for guidance to help us keep our paths from and Aaer’s and e'er do > wellers. > > 8. Made of list of people to avoid, moved to other cities or stayed in the > house all day to avoid these people. > > 9. If providence put these people in our tracks, we walked in front of a > moving car to avoid them. > > 10. Everyday, were grateful not to be in AA anymore, whether we were > drinking or not. > > 11. Started to use our mind again, trusting that we knew right from wrong, > and our natural instincts. > > 12. Having been free from the 12-step influence for a considerable time, and > liking ourselves and being able to live with ourselves, we treated others as > we wanted to be treated ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 At 05:04 PM 7/10/01 +0000, you wrote: >This guy should be booted. Why? What did he do? > > > Dear Anti-12 Steppers: > > > > I have been enjoying reading the posts from your website. I am on >the > > mailing list and do not wish to be deleted. I also joined >Lamplighters and, > > while I have not tried to cause any controversy, I am enjoying >reading the > > bickering between the members. > > > > I will never go to a F2F meeting of AA again, but maybe I should say >I intend > > to never go to an AA meeting again, as we well know ourpropensity to >change > > our minds. I also think we need 12-steps to deprogram from >AA. Here are the > > steps I suggest I take: > > > > > > 1. Decided that we were way too sick or too well to go to AA, that >our lives > > were better off without a one or one and one half hour of being with >sicker > > or people who were healthier than we were. > > > > 2. Came to disbelieve in anything, that nothing could help us get >well, or > > keep us sober outside of our own selves. > > > > 3. Made adecision to get support for our decision not to be in AA, >thinking > > that anything was better than AA and the manner of living which AA >proposes. > > > > 4. Tried to stay out of any personal relationships, work >relationships, > > neighborly relationships, because we were inherently bad and evil. > > > > 5. Spoke to no one about this. Knew we’d goto our grave with >this > > knowledge. > > > > 6. Were not humble, knew humility to be the coverup for people with >very > > large egos who went to AA, very few people in AA meet the definition >of > > humility. > > > > 7. Asked for guidance to help us keep our paths from and Aaer’s >and e'er do > > wellers. > > > > 8. Made of list of people to avoid, moved to other cities or stayed >in the > > house all day to avoid these people. > > > > 9. If providence put these people in our tracks, we walked in front >of a > > moving car to avoid them. > > > > 10. Everyday, were grateful not to be in AA anymore, whether we >were > > drinking or not. > > > > 11. Started to use our mind again, trusting that we knew right from >wrong, > > and our natural instincts. > > > > 12. Having been free from the 12-step influence for a considerable >time, and > > liking ourselves and being able to live with ourselves, we treated >others as > > we wanted to be treated ourselves. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 > Re: You WILL > > > > > > The button is missing, but is supposed to point to: > > > > https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/survey1.asp > > > > It should work. > > I'm too tired to do this right now and I need to think but I'll > definitely go back to it. Note how it talks about it remaining > anonymous depsite asking for initials, dob, and ZIP code of all > things. You see so much crock about how research cant be done on XA > because of anonymity and yet these guys can do it of course. Boy is > he going to get a shock when he sees the 12sf replies. I think as many > folks as possible should do that survey so that they might " get the > message " . I might try to keep a look out for the results and see how > he handles them. wouldnt it be a crack if there were more 12sf > replies than stepper? > Hehe! Something tells me if that happens we will never hear about it. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 > >This guy should be booted. > > Why? What did he do? Lamplighters is High Strength AA. He clearly indicated he is here just to take the piss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 This survey and my assumption that the results will be very skewed has gotten me to think about something else. I went through rehab twice, years ago. Each time, I was signed up to be a part of an ongoing " poll " of how the rehab was working. I got called once a year for a couple years. I haven't been called in about 6 years. Is this because I was not giving them answers that supported the results they wanted? I have to wonder. > > > > > The button is missing, but is supposed to point to: > > > > > > https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/survey1.asp > > > > > > It should work. > > > > I'm too tired to do this right now and I need to think but I'll > > definitely go back to it. Note how it talks about it remaining > > anonymous depsite asking for initials, dob, and ZIP code of all > > things. You see so much crock about how research cant be done on XA > > because of anonymity and yet these guys can do it of course. Boy is > > he going to get a shock when he sees the 12sf replies. I think as many > > folks as possible should do that survey so that they might " get the > > message " . I might try to keep a look out for the results and see how > > he handles them. wouldnt it be a crack if there were more 12sf > > replies than stepper? > > > > Hehe! Something tells me if that happens we will never hear about it. > > Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 It wouldn't be the first time charges of statistical loading has been lobbed at alcohol related studies. The one that comes to mind immediately is the Twin study by Goodwin et al. 1974. " Third, there is compelling reason to suspect the methodology is flawed. Ross and Pam (1995) report that two subjects were switched from the index group to the control for no apparent reason. The researchers also added 4 controls at the end of the study, and knew what their diagnosis was. This severely weakens the study because of problems with investigator bias and charges of statistical loading (Ross and Pam, 1995, p. 50). " http://members.nbci.com/psych_books/aaeval_frame.htm I believe Lomas will find the above site interesting as well. It could be as you state below CG or it could be that that particular study (poll) has been completed thus requiring no more input from you. - Re: You WILL - - - This survey and my assumption that the results will be very skewed -has gotten me to think about something else. I went through rehab -twice, years ago. Each time, I was signed up to be a part of an -ongoing " poll " of how the rehab was working. I got called once a -year for a couple years. I haven't been called in about 6 years. Is -this because I was not giving them answers that supported the results -they wanted? I have to wonder. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Great link , but the banner at the top of the paper faied to come up. Can you say who wrote this an where it appeared? Tx, P. > It wouldn't be the first time charges of statistical loading has been lobbed > at alcohol related studies. The one that comes to mind immediately is the > Twin study by Goodwin et al. 1974. > > " Third, there is compelling reason to suspect the methodology is flawed. > Ross and Pam (1995) report that two subjects were switched from the index > group to the control for no apparent reason. The researchers also added 4 > controls at the end of the study, and knew what their diagnosis was. This > severely weakens the study because of problems with investigator bias and > charges of statistical loading (Ross and Pam, 1995, p. 50). " > > http://members.nbci.com/psych_books/aaeval_frame.htm > > I believe Lomas will find the above site interesting as well. > > It could be as you state below CG or it could be that that particular study > (poll) has been completed thus requiring no more input from you. > > - Re: You WILL > - > - > - This survey and my assumption that the results will be very skewed > -has gotten me to think about something else. I went through rehab > -twice, years ago. Each time, I was signed up to be a part of an > -ongoing " poll " of how the rehab was working. I got called once a > -year for a couple years. I haven't been called in about 6 years. Is > -this because I was not giving them answers that supported the results > -they wanted? I have to wonder. > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 I think its by the website host, Ryley. Pm > Re: You WILL > > - > > - > > - This survey and my assumption that the results will be very > skewed > > -has gotten me to think about something else. I went through rehab > > -twice, years ago. Each time, I was signed up to be a part of an > > -ongoing " poll " of how the rehab was working. I got called once a > > -year for a couple years. I haven't been called in about 6 years. > Is > > -this because I was not giving them answers that supported the > results > > -they wanted? I have to wonder. > > - > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 It identifies itself as the : " Pseudoscience in Psychology Website " Here's a link to the sites intro: http://members.nbci.com/psych_books/intro.htm - Re: You WILL - - -Great link , but the banner at the top of the paper faied to -come up. Can you say who wrote this an where it appeared? - -Tx, -P. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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