Guest guest Posted July 7, 2001 Report Share Posted July 7, 2001 Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: Did ya take the putrid survey? I did. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 I'm having trouble getting to the actual survey...I didn't see any " button " except the link to e-mail the (fill in the blanks, I am at a loss for words to describe these disgusting groupers). Did the HP make it disappear because I'm unspiritual? I WILL take it. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 > In a message dated 7/7/01 8:55:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > perkinstommy@h... writes: > > > > Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: > > > > Did ya take the putrid survey? I did. > > --Mona-- Yes I, too, took the putrid survey (good thing I was stocked up on barf bags.) I added a story at the end explaining why abandoning the 12-steps was the healthiest thing I've ever done for my recovery. Oh, and by the way, today I made a non-12-step comrade! It was almost efortless, all she needed was to hear someone say the same things she had been thinking for years, I wonder how many people like that there are, must be zillions. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 Likewise. I took the survey, and ended with an explanation why I left AA and why I think the program is toxic. I'd be curious to know how many negative responses the guy is getting, and what he's doing with the negative responses. Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 At 11:07 AM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >Likewise. I took the survey, and ended with an explanation why I left AA >and why I think >the program is toxic. > >I'd be curious to know how many negative responses the guy is getting, and >what he's doing >with the negative responses. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw them away as malicious attempts to misuse the survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 At 05:54 AM 7/8/01 EDT, MonaHolland@... wrote: > >In a message dated 7/7/01 8:55:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >perkinstommy@... writes: > > >Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: > > >Did ya take the putrid survey? I did. The original 'You WILL' post must have prompted many entries/stories, from us posters, and from lurkers on both sides of the fence, just from posting of the hazelden.org site on this list of 379 members. I did just what they wanted (!) and answered all the questions totally honestly. A few of my answers should be instructive: Total number of meetings attended: 2000. Number of meetings attended in the last year: 0. I found it amusing that this form was in a secure website to encrypt the data sent back, to protect against Internet crackers who might otherwise intercept this confidential correspondence and publicize it all over the net. Here are my comments or 'story': I spent several years believing that the 12 steps were 'what I needed to do to recover from the terminal disease of alcoholism', I TOOK (not worked) the steps as ordered by a sponsor (who read 'how it works as " These are the steps we TOOK, which are suggested... " ), etc. To make a long story short, I've since found it much easier just to not drink. I don't have to go to meetings, call a sponsor, pray, take steps, believe I have a disease ... these things had taken over my life, and it took reading every book in library on cults to unlearn them, but I'm okay now. When it crosses my mind (as when someone directs me to the Hazelden website), I see that I am not just sober (using the dictionary definiton of sober, not the AA definition), but abstinent. In later years of 'recovery' and as a stepping-stone out of AA, I attended non-12-step meetings and resources (specifically SOS), and found them supporting of individualism where AA'ers only saw 'terminal uniqueness'. I was also able to leave such groups and recieve well-wishes, not the 'jails, institutions or death' predictions of those in AA. >--Mona-- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 When I clicked on the link, it took me to 'Hazelden, Acceptance, Courage, Wisdom.'. Some pictures and words, and then a nice green line with 'site map' and 'what's new'. And directly below, under the link to 'site map', is '12-step survey'. You click on the words, and there you go. Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 Cant see any button to press for this survey. Do you have to register w them for it to work? P. > Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: > > http://www.hazelden.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 At 01:59 AM 7/9/01 +0000, you wrote: >Cant see any button to press for this survey. Do you have to register >w them for it to work? For those having trouble, here's a direct link to the survey: https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 Yipes, Pete! We're clicking on the same link, and I'd think we're going to the same site. Do you see a sentence, maybe 1/3 of the way down the page, that says, " 12 Step Survey -- How do you use the 12 Steps in your life? Please take part in our confidential online survey running now through August 12. We'll post the results when it is completed. " ? Do you see a place that says, " Click here> site map " ? The 12-step survey words appear below the site map link. You should be able to click on " 12-step survey " and get there. What do you get when you click on the Hazelden URL anyway? Cheers, nz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 watts_pete@... wrote: > Cant see any button to press for this survey. Do you have to register > w them for it to work? > > P. > Pete, The button is missing, but is supposed to point to: https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/survey1.asp It should work. Ken > > > > Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: > > > > http://www.hazelden.org/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 > The button is missing, but is supposed to point to: > > https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/survey1.asp > > It should work. I'm too tired to do this right now and I need to think but I'll definitely go back to it. Note how it talks about it remaining anonymous depsite asking for initials, dob, and ZIP code of all things. You see so much crock about how research cant be done on XA because of anonymity and yet these guys can do it of course. Boy is he going to get a shock when he sees the 12sf replies. I think as many folks as possible should do that survey so that they might " get the message " . I might try to keep a look out for the results and see how he handles them. wouldnt it be a crack if there were more 12sf replies than stepper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 Hey Folks Maybe they deleted the button until they could work out a way to stop us pesky 12sf folks from responding? Our replies were too much " On the Button " . P., Powerless over Poker > > > Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: > > > > > > http://www.hazelden.org/ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 > Hey Folks > > Maybe they deleted the button until they could work out a way to stop > us pesky 12sf folks from responding? > > Our replies were too much " On the Button " . It kept saying I had missed answering the questions when I responded " never " on using the each of the steps. I tried to continue, but it froze up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 watts_pete@... wrote: > Hey Folks > > Maybe they deleted the button until they could work out a way to stop > us pesky 12sf folks from responding? > > Our replies were too much " On the Button " . > > P., Powerless over Poker Pete, There is a java script in the source which gives the file the button should run. I'll wager that the button appears in some browsers and not in others. Ken > > > > > > > Grab a barf bag and scroll down about half way: > > > > > > > > http://www.hazelden.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2001 Report Share Posted July 8, 2001 > > > The button is missing, but is supposed to point to: > > > > https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/survey1.asp > > > > It should work. > > I'm too tired to do this right now and I need to think but I'll > definitely go back to it. Note how it talks about it remaining > anonymous depsite asking for initials, dob, and ZIP code of all > things. You see so much crock about how research cant be done on XA > because of anonymity and yet these guys can do it of course. Boy is > he going to get a shock when he sees the 12sf replies. I think as many > folks as possible should do that survey so that they might " get the > message " . I might try to keep a look out for the results and see how > he handles them. wouldnt it be a crack if there were more 12sf > replies than stepper? Would need a miracle.....so keep the faith! netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 At 08:41 PM 7/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >There is a java script in the source which gives the file the button should >run. I'll wager that the button appears in some browsers and not in others. I didn't notice any javascript button either, but there is a plain old ordinary link to it. But at any rate, going directly to the survey should also work. Again, that's https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/ to read the survey info first, or https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/survey1.asp to dive right into the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 > > I didn't notice any javascript button either, but there is a plain > old ordinary link to it. But at any rate, going directly to the > survey should also work. Again, that's > > https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/ > The guy(?) sez: " This endeavor is the last phase of my doctorate. After my dissertation/field study has been successfully defended, I will share some of my findings via the web. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^**!! Confident isn't he! Hmmm, I think I chose the wrong subject - Maybe I should've researched... Alchemy. lol Mack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 At 11:41 AM 7/9/01 +0000, you wrote: >The guy(?) sez: > > " This endeavor is the last phase of my doctorate. After my >dissertation/field study has been successfully defended, I will share >some of my findings via the web. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^**!! > >Confident isn't he! Hmmm, I think I chose the wrong subject - Maybe I >should've researched... Alchemy. lol I like the implicit belief that he thinks he can get valid survey data from a self-selected sample on the web. This is not science. But this voodoo will be cited by other steppers as " research " on the importance of the steps in everyday life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 > ...This is not science. But > this voodoo will be cited by other steppers as " research " on the > importance of the steps in everyday life. > > I'm always intrigued by these " qualifications " ... Was checking out one of the responses to Pete's query on the GSO list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gso/message/852 Look at all those letters! ;-) But the amusing thing is that if you click on the persons name, you don't get an " biography " - You get a link to something that looks suspiciously like a pyramid sales scam! " YOU can easily get 5000-8000 members under your position in a month " The ultimate in Sponsorship? LOL Mack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 > > ...This is not science. But > > this voodoo will be cited by other steppers as " research " on the > > importance of the steps in everyday life. > > > > > > I'm always intrigued by these " qualifications " ... Was checking out > one of the responses to Pete's query on the GSO list: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gso/message/852 > > Look at all those letters! ;-) But the amusing thing is that if you > click on the persons name, you don't get an " biography " - You get a > link to something that looks suspiciously like a pyramid sales scam! > > " YOU can easily get 5000-8000 members under your position in a month " > > The ultimate in Sponsorship? LOL > > Mack I read the response to Pete's post also. I might note that " Came to scoff, and stayed to pray, " is not a quote from Bill . It's much older than that, I don't know where it originated, may have used the quote, but it's not his original. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 At 01:51 PM 7/9/01 -0000, manypaths@... wrote: > >> > ...This is not science. But Not only is it bad science because of the subjects' self-selection (as you were saying but it got trimmed), but I expect my response and many others to get thrown out as 'spurious responses.' It would be easy enough to justify tossing my response because I stay abstinent without taking the steps, proving that I'm not really an alcoholic. Maybe he will at least keep all the raw data. If not, he's at least read my response, maybe it will, uh, " plant a seed. " >> > this voodoo will be cited by other steppers as " research " on >the >> > importance of the steps in everyday life. >> > >> > >> >> I'm always intrigued by these " qualifications " ... Was checking >out >> one of the responses to Pete's query on the GSO list: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gso/message/852 >> >> Look at all those letters! ;-) But the amusing thing is that if you >> click on the persons name, you don't get an " biography " - You >get a >> link to something that looks suspiciously like a pyramid sales >scam! >> >> " YOU can easily get 5000-8000 members under your position >in a month " >> >> The ultimate in Sponsorship? LOL That's funny. I'm sure this scam is " a progam of honesty. " I've often wondered if there was a correlation between 12-steppers and pyramid scammers (such as " FOUR REPORTS " spammers). >> >> Mack > >I read the response to Pete's post also. I might note that " Came >to scoff, and stayed to pray, " is not a quote from Bill . It's >much older than that, I don't know where it originated, >may have used the quote, but it's not his original. It's easy enough to attribute to as he wrote most of the big book - I thought it came from the end of Chapter 1 " Bill's Story " , myself. But a two-second search of an online big book text finds it: it's the last sentence in " The Doctor's Opinion " , just before Chapter 1 in the big book: I earnestly advise every alcoholic to read this book through, and though perhaps he came to scoff, he may remain to pray. D. Silkworth, MD " Yes, I have to get down on my knees and pray twice a day. Doctor's orders. " >Devin ---------- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 > > > > I didn't notice any javascript button either, but there is a plain > > old ordinary link to it. But at any rate, going directly to the > > survey should also work. Again, that's > > > > https://www.hazelden.org/research/12stepstudy/ > > > > The guy(?) sez: > > " This endeavor is the last phase of my doctorate. After my > dissertation/field study has been successfully defended, I will share > some of my findings via the web. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^**!! > > Confident isn't he! Hmmm, I think I chose the wrong subject - Maybe I > should've researched... Alchemy. lol > > Mack Mack <LOL>, I thought the very same. Especially after it wouldn't accept my list of " nevers " when asked my frequency of using the steps. I, too really liked the one " General Human Condition " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 > I like the implicit belief that he thinks he can get valid survey data > from a self-selected sample on the web. This is not science. But > this voodoo will be cited by other steppers as " research " on the > importance of the steps in everyday life. Indeed. Of course, given that it had=s come to 12sf attention, he might not get what he expects. I wouldnt be surprised if the systme jams if you say you never use the steps. He wont have anticipated that. One reason I have been slow to complete it is because I actually *cant* say never, becasue I am still very much iunfluenced by them, but not necessarily in healthy ways at all. So how do I answer this survey? P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 At 04:13 PM 7/9/01 +0000, you wrote: > > > > I like the implicit belief that he thinks he can get valid survey >data > > from a self-selected sample on the web. This is not science. But > > this voodoo will be cited by other steppers as " research " on the > > importance of the steps in everyday life. > >Indeed. Of course, given that it had=s come to 12sf attention, he >might not get what he expects. I wouldnt be surprised if the systme >jams if you say you never use the steps. It didn't do that for me, actually. But it did squawk about not answering all the questions on a different page (on which I had in fact answered them all). I figure the script is just a little broken. > He wont have anticipated >that. One reason I have been slow to complete it is because I >actually *cant* say never, becasue I am still very much iunfluenced by >them, but not necessarily in healthy ways at all. So how do I answer >this survey? But do you *use* them? Being influenced by them isn't the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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