Re: Keflex

[Guest guest]

Keflex is a penecillin class drug. If you are concerned with feeding the

bugs and causing a herx, I would be careful. Back up your administration of

Keflex (Caphalexin) with antihystamine, to reduce the alergic reaction to

the bacteria die-off, and the increased mycoplasma toxic release.

Creighton

rheumatic Keflex

Anyone taken Keflex while on the AP? Do I have to stop tetracycline while

taking it? I seem to remember someone saying awhile ago that they had a

herx while on it??

I haven't taken it for years and was just wondering if anyone had recent

experience with it. I went to my doctor today and said Pleeeeeeeeeease

could we try another, different antibiotic for this sinus infection I can't

seem to shake, so he gave me Cephalexin (Actually he wrote Keflex, but my

insurance only covers the generic). It is a cephalosporin, I think.

Just wondering if I should stop tetracycline while taking it, like you do

with penicillin, so it will work better. And wondering if I should be

hanging onto my hat and getting ready for a bumpy ride. ; ) the only thing

I remember about taking it before was that awful taste in my mouth (like

sucking on plastic all day) and that it once cleared up an ear infection I

couldn't shake for months. Liz G

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[Guest guest]

Dear Creighton,

Would antihistamines help with the herx from other antibiotics, such as

Biaxin, when used long term on a daily basis for the AP?

Thanks,

Gloria

[Guest guest]

Gloria, et al,

I am taking my information from the following website:

http://www.folkarts.com/idef

Specifically, the page on Herxheimer:

http://www.folkarts.com/idef/herxheimer.htm

I believe Henry Schammel's books also reference the use of antihistamines to

combat Herx.

Copy of IDEF page included herein:

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Transcript==================================================================

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The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction (referred to as " Herx " often) is believed to

be a reaction caused by organizisms (bacteria) dying off and releasing

toxins into the body faster than the body may comfortably handle it. It was

originally observed in patients with syphilis who received mercury treatment

[*].

Most CFSers will have moderate to severe herx effects from antibiotics that

will usually have no effects on normal healthy individuals[83% in one R.A.

study, 51.4% in Lyme Disease, 89% with B. recurrentis infection]. The reason

for this may be the diminished blood flow system caused by the thickening of

the blood commonly found with CFS patients. Alternatively, " it seemed to

occur when injured or dead bacteria released their products into blood and

tissues, provoking a sudden and exaggerated inflammatory response " [*] - thus

the response may be connected to the specific organism being killed off.

Many non-antibiotic treatments (Hale's breathing, glutathione - whey

products ) are reported to also produce a herx effect -- whether it is

bacteria die off or simply toxin release, the effect is the same: misery!

Readings:

What is a Herxheimer Reaction? http://www.x-l.net/Lyme/HERX.html

The Herxheimer Reaction History [History and current theories (technical)]

http://garynull.com/Documents/Arthritis/Herxheimer_Effect.htm

The New England Journal of Medicine -- August 1, 1996 -- Vol. 335, No. 5

http://www.nejm.org/content/1996/0335/0005/0347.asp

http://www.cmc.net/~jadevoll/herxheimer.htm

Onset

Depending on illness and antibiotic: from 1-2 hrs to 10 days after

antibiotics started

Symptoms

The most common ones include:

increased joint or muscle pain

headaches

chills

Heavy perspiration and night sweats

Nausea

Burning micturition

Bone pain

swollen glands

bloating

constipation or diarrhea

fever (usually low grade)

hypotension (low blood pressure)

Itching, hives and rash (sometimes mistaken for an allergic reaction - this

must be an MD's call)

heart palpitations, elevated heart rate, orthostatic

Tachycardia are reported on cfs_Mycoplasma/

Treatment

Probenecid (Dr. Jadin [*])

Benadryl (antihistamine) Therma-Flu or equivalent

Aspirin (Bromelain may increase it!)

Meptazinol [*, *]

Increase in blood thinning supplements

Lemon/Olive Oil drink (may be done with water or Grape Juice) 2 Tbsp Lemon

Juice (Organic) or 1/2 lemon rind)

1 Tbsp cold pressed Extra Virgin Olive Oil

Water or juice ... stir

Concord Grape Juice with flavoids (widens blood vessels)

NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs),

pain medication (see ibuprofen risks..)

muscle relaxers,

hot baths / hot tub

steam (dry or hot) sauna

a saltz bath: add 1 cup salt, 1 cup soda, 1 cup epsom salts, 1 cup aloe

vera, to a hot bath, remain in and keep hot for about 1-1/2 hours all the

while consuming about 2 quarts of warm water.

Hale's breathing

Control panic attacks, anxiety and worry (they constrict the blood vessels,

worsening the effect).

Differentiating between a Herxheimer, a flare and an allergic reaction to

the drug

" Laboratory tests can help differentiate between a worsening of disease (RA

flare), a Herxheimer reaction to microbial toxins, and an allergic reaction

to medication.

1) WBC will elevate in a Herxheimer and lower in a flare.

2) A Herxheimer will also exhibit a coincidental elevation of SED rate,

gamma globulin and total globulin, and a fall in serum albumin and

hematocrit. Patients who exhibit this flare reaction accompanied by anemia,

depression of serum albumin, elevated total globulin and gamma globulin are

probably reflecting a more intense reaction pattern to anti-L substances

than in hematologically mild cases.

3) A marked increase in eosinophils (for instance about 30%) is an

indication of an allergic reaction to the drug. "

From

http://home2.freegates.be/nvdeynde/mycoplasma/publications/mycoplasma/treatm

ent/8_bestanden/8.pdf

May be freely copied (site is placed in PUBLIC DOMAIN) unless a © appears on

the page. Not medical advice - always consult with your MD on any treatments

or supplement use. This website is intended to be a 'Rolodex' of summaries

for CFS patients and URLS for their MDs. Documents are for informational

purpose only, based on web surfing, and not written by a medical

professional. Issues have often been simplified for easier understanding by

CFS patient (commonly having Brain Fog / 40-60 IQ point drop) and may not be

'technically accurate'.

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Transcript==================================================================

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Creighton Burgher

Re: rheumatic Keflex

Dear Creighton,

Would antihistamines help with the herx from other antibiotics, such as

Biaxin, when used long term on a daily basis for the AP?

Thanks,

Gloria

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for the very useful information. I usually have trouble sleeping

when I take antihistamines, but when pain is bad enough, I would try it or

some of the other suggestions. I ordered some flax seed oil and from what I

am reading, it might work even better with the lemon juice.

Can you tell me what Hale's breathing is?

Gloria

[Guest guest]

Make sure you are taking antihistimines only, not antihistimines combined

with decongestants. Straight Benedryl should actually make you drowsy.

However, Pseudophedrine (decongestant) does act as an upper.

Again, a reference from the IDEF page:

http://www.folkarts.com/idef/breathing.htm

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The body ability to release oxygen into the body is governed by its

acid/alkaline balance. Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is an essential part of this

process with too low a level of CO2 resulting in less oxygen being released.

These techniques seek to increase the CO2 levels by breathing techniques or

equipment so more oxygen is released. Some successes have been reported but

no published studies for CFS patients.

Dr. Cheney sample report on oxygen consumption of CFS patient illustrates

this low oxygen consumption (see oxygen.htm)

NOTE: Deep breathing reduces the CO2 content and reduces the amount of

oxygen that may be released.

Blood pH and Breathing

A blood pH between 7.35 and 7.45 is normal

http://www.acp.edu/web/genchem/thedisk/bloodbuf/zback.htm]

http://www.acp.edu/web/genchem/thedisk/bloodbuf/zback2.htm

http://www.nursing99.com/ce/p812a.htm

IMPORTANT NOTE: (most) Asthma and (most) CFS cases appear to be caused by

Mycoplasma infections. This technique affects the mycoplasma by killing them

with higher oxygen levels.

Poor Man's Rebreather

Wearing a {painter's, organic vapor or dust mask} for several hours a day

seem to be effective in raising CO2 level. Some patients have reported

" herxing " if they wear it a long time each day (in theory, the CO2 increase

causes more oxygen to be released and thus killing mycoplasma-like bugs

[oxygen becomes an antibiotic]). It's cheap, does not require a prescription

and simple to use. :-)

Buteyko / Hale Breathing

The purpose of these exercises is to correct long term " hidden

hyperventilation " . A 'point form' description is available at " Anne and

Janet's introduction to The Buteyko Method " ,

http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/a & j.htm.

A " popular magazine report " , AUSTRALIAN WELLBEING, 1997, 68:86-93

http://www.buteyko.com/media/healthy_breathing.html

For a good scientific study (1981) see

http://www.buteyko.co.nz/buteyko/trials/frames/russia.htm , this is linked

to a lot of New Zealand and Australian experiences. Another site is

http://www.buteyko.com/trials.html

The Control Pause (CP)

This is the key monitoring component for retraining yourself to breath

correctly. As a first step, you should read several description of this

measurement and derive your own version. For example, if you cannot sit in a

chair comfortably, use a recliner etc..

This CP is described by Hale as follows: "

Sit comfortably in an upright chair close to a clock with a second hand, or

hold a stopwatch.

Relax and breathe in and out gently, mouth closed.

Pinch your nose with your fingers, after the exhalation.

Keeping your mouth closed, count how many seconds you can comfortably last

before you need to inhale again.

Don't push yourself too hard. The accuracy of the test depends on your

stopping before you reach the threshold of discomfort.

Remember: you are not holding your breath in, you are emptying your lungs

and then counting.

When you breathe in again, try not to take in large gulps of air, control

your breathing, keep your mouth closed.

Do not push your Control Pause above 60. This can only be done under the

guidance of a Breath Connection Practitioner. These breathing exercises,

like medication, must be administered correctly " p. 48, Breathing Free

Alternative versions are available online at:

Instep Asthma Free, http://www.nqnet.com/buteyko/buttest.html

The Buteyko Breathing Centre http://www.buteyko.co.uk/buteyko/theory.htm

Chicago Yoga News, March 1999

http://www.yogachicago.com/march99/Yoganews.html

Re-Training your breathing

All of the techniques are modification of the following pattern:

Check pause for 1 minute (helps to settle you down)

Do a Control Pause (CP)

Do shallow breathing for 5 (or more) minutes.. REPEAT 2,3

take a slightly bigger breath, exhale. Try to hold extend your CP for 5

additional seconds. REPEAT 3,4

Increase to 10 additional seconds (but never over 60 seconds).

This is done before each meal and at bed time (or more often if the

situation permits it).

A modification that Hales teaches for children is to walk while holding the

exhausted breath and count the number of steps taken (ideally 120 steps).

Then continue walking in a normal manner (with shallow breath) and repeat in

5-10 minutes. For people who do walk regularly, this method may be helpful.

Reference: Breathing Free, Hale, Harmony Books, 1999

Oxygen tanks with rebreather etc.

reports that breathing oxygen did not improve CFS, and may

actually cause relapse. Oxygen using a rebreather(to increase CO2) has been

prescribed by Dr.Cheney and several people are trying this.

Hyper baric Breathing

CFSFMExperiment have several people waiting to spend some time in hyperbaric

chambers (decompression chambers) where the atmospheric pressure will be

increased several fold. The theory is that this will allow more oxygen into

the blood (note that this is normal air that is pressurized).

Other Oxygen Therapy...

This is informational only -- no reports of western physicians trying or

suggesting this (one report of Eastern European physician).

http://www.oxytherapy.com

May be freely copied (site is placed in PUBLIC DOMAIN) unless a © appears on

the page. Not medical advice - always consult with your MD on any treatments

or supplement use. This website is intended to be a 'Rolodex' of summaries

for CFS patients and URLS for their MDs. Documents are for informational

purpose only, based on web surfing, and not written by a medical

professional. Issues have often been simplified for easier understanding by

CFS patient (commonly having Brain Fog / 40-60 IQ point drop) and may not be

'technically accurate'.

=End

Transcription===============================================================

===============================

Re: rheumatic Keflex

Hi,

Thanks for the very useful information. I usually have trouble sleeping

when I take antihistamines, but when pain is bad enough, I would try it or

some of the other suggestions. I ordered some flax seed oil and from what I

am reading, it might work even better with the lemon juice.

Can you tell me what Hale's breathing is?

Gloria

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

> Make sure you are taking antihistimines only, not antihistimines combined

> with decongestants. Straight Benedryl should actually make you drowsy.

Unless you're like me and my family. We have reverse reaction to Benadryl

and it makes me feel like my skin is crawling right off my body. My son

literally climbs to the ceiling when he takes it. I could not believe it

when I first heard people take it for a sleep aid, but some swear by it.

I tried other decongestants for herx myself, and for me it did nothing. But

it is a cheap and easy thing to try, to see if it works for you. I

recommend lots of b-vitamins, a diet high in vegetables, and *lots* of

water, lots of rest. Liz G

[Guest guest]

Hi Everybody ,

I am diagonised to have reiter' syndrome per my Rheumo (or more accurately

early Reiter's Syndrome ).I did a blood test (I got the results today) and

the results which were of some concerns were .

carbon dioxide - 23(normal 24-32)

calcium,serum 10.3(normal 8.2-10.2)

cholesterol 147 (normal 120-200)

ANA Screen -Negative by Enzyme Immunoassay

HLA-B27-Positive

RF Screen , Serum-Negative

CBC.

WBC 14.2(Normal 3.8-10.6)

Hemoglobin 13.1(Normal 13.5-17.0)

Hematocrit 40.8 (Normal(41-53)

Neutrophil,ABS 11.30(1.8-7.7)

Monocyte0.9(Normal 0.0-0.8)

SED RATE - 18(0-10)

Can somebody please tell me what is wrong ?Though the doctor says that you

are lucky yto be caught so early . I am on doxycycline now ,I was also given

INDOCIN but I stopped it by myself since I faced stomach cramps and

digestion problems .

, Can you please give me some diet tips ?

Thanks,

Suranjan/Michigan

Re: rheumatic Keflex

Hi,

Thanks for the very useful information. I usually have trouble sleeping

when I take antihistamines, but when pain is bad enough, I would try it or

some of the other suggestions. I ordered some flax seed oil and from what I

am reading, it might work even better with the lemon juice.

Can you tell me what Hale's breathing is?

Gloria

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 09/15/2000 4:03:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

suranjan.banerjee@... writes:

<< Can somebody please tell me what is wrong ?Though the doctor says that you

are lucky yto be caught so early . I am on doxycycline now >>

Ah ha! welcome to thewonder filledworld of spondylatherapies. Good news is

the Doxy works and many with thereediseases respondvery well to antibiotic

treatment