Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

[Guest guest]

Meekness-cum-virtue? Ms Hollamd, now you are indeed becoming kinky!

Well you know, it's been awhile....

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

The jury is out on the relative abilities of males and females at chess, but it's likely that there are few top women players simply because girls are smart enough to spot a waste of time when they see it. It is a decdiedly male characteristic to become obsessional about intricate matters of no consequence; it's called autism.

Ah Pete, I could only wish that were true. I have little doubt Mikey could beat me at Chess, because it never caught my fancy. What Mikey could not beat me at, however, is the utterly inconsequential but rapturously enjoyable game called Bridge.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Some liars in program also lie about the amount of clean time they have.

klc youlater wrote:

> True, I've met liars in program, too. One man I met in program was truly 30

> yrs sober & felt he worked a great program, all the while cheating on his

> wife - he even tried to pick me up. He was disgusting. I soon learned that

> when people bragged about how many yrs they had in program it didnt mean

> crap to me - someone who had one day could be a lot more well balanced.

>

[Guest guest]

I thought you said I could not name one-that's why I mentioned Jesus.

Words mean exactly what I want them to mean, nothing more, and nothing less.

Logicians such as Carroll have long insisted that this is so.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

It is a fact that men in general are better at chess than women.

This is true. In the aggregate, men are superior in matters concerning spatial relationships than women are. Of course, this us tells nothing about the capabilities of any particular man or woman.

I haven't played Chess in over 20 years, and have no doubt that most regular-playing kids could beat me at that game. You probably could too, Mikey.

But I'd have ya screaming for mercy, Mikey, at:

1. Trivial Pursuit;

2. Outburst;

3. Jeopardy; or

4. The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

but I bet I could play spades as good as you.

Golly gee, I doubt it muchly Mikey. I am confident I would outperform you in Spades, as it is but Baby Bridge. And if you are waiting for me to rise to your feminist-baiting, you have the wrong girlie. None of that stuff bothers me. In law school I had a feminazi legal writing prof who so annoyed me that I turned in a writing assignment under the firm name "Bimbos, Chicks, Broads &

Dames."

Anywhoooo, I would not trounce you in any intellectual endeavor in which I have an iota of experience by virtue of gender characteristics or lack thereof, Mikey. I'd whup your ass because I'm smart and you are...less so.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

She is full of shit. She cannot admit she made a grammar error, and she

cannot, of course prove she is right. I didn't know she was like this, but

like I said, I have learned something about her. Mike.

Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

>

> > In a message dated 6/24/01 8:01:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,

> > mikdan7@h... writes:

> >

> >

> > > . PS You threw around as many ten dollar words as you could get

> your

> > > spell-check program to find for you, but you revealed something

> else about

> > > yourself-your spell check could not save you from using the wrong

> version

> > >

> >

> > You are clearly untutored in reader-repsonse theory and have not yet

> gleaned

> > that, when deconstructed in the socioeconomic text-based memes, then

> shifts

> > its signifier-status to than. But this is all beside the point.

> How can you

> > not comprehend that Homo Faber can never properly be placed in

> parity with

> > Homo sapiens? Have you read any Derridda? Or attempted

> deconstructing the

> > paradigm of agape? (Or do you think it always comes back to the

> demotic Eros?)

> >

> > Can you cite one higher-functioning prestidigitator who endorses

> humility cum

> > absement, or gratitude?

> >

> > In sum: Have you understood one word I have written?

>

> Hi Mona,

>

> *NO*! 10-to-1 very few others on the list here have " attempted

> deconstructing the paradigm of agape " either. Or if they did, maybe

> they weren't even aware of the fact! Can you please be more

> specific...examples...and a little less wordy? I am interested in

> these topics. The program is all about humility and powerlessness and

> I ended up rejecting these ideas on my own, but would be interested in

> finding a disciplined discussion of it.

>

>

>

> PS: here is a link to www.dictionary.com. Did you really mean

> " juggler " ?

>

> http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=prestidigitator

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Now you think blaspheme is wit? Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> <snip>

> > They " reconcile " by *blaming*

> > the person suffering and by minimizing the issues ( " get off your

> > pity-pot. At least you can walk. Did you ever think about people who

> > don't have the use of their legs? " I heard this too).

>

> Or, as I once read:

>

> " I cried because I had no feet, until I met a man who had no

penis. "

>

> (Can't remember where, or I would credit the author.)

>

> -- Bob Marshall

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I saw this as well.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:06:32 -0700

>

>

> Some liars in program also lie about the amount of clean time they

>have.

>

>klc youlater wrote:

>

> > True, I've met liars in program, too. One man I met in program was truly

>30

> > yrs sober & felt he worked a great program, all the while cheating on

>his

> > wife - he even tried to pick me up. He was disgusting. I soon learned

>that

> > when people bragged about how many yrs they had in program it didnt mean

> > crap to me - someone who had one day could be a lot more well balanced.

> >

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

<snip>

The jury is out on the relative abilities of males and females at

>chess, but it's likely that there are few top women players simply

>because girls are smart enough to spot a waste of time when they see

>it. It is a decdiedly male characteristic to become obsessional about

>intricate matters of no consequence; it's called autism.

My son has Autism. If you'd like to learn about it, I could recommend

several good web sites. There is now fortunetly alot of good info available

to help educate people regarding this neurological disorder.

,

~I will not take my thoughts for granted,

for they may be my only guide.

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

By the way, Jesus Christ is a 'high functioning prestidigitator " who

advocates " humility cum abasement " . She is not as smart as she tries to make

herself out to be. Mike.

Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> Mike, she's playing with you like a cat with a mouse.

>

>

> > > > In a message dated 6/24/01 8:01:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,

> > > > mikdan7@h... writes:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > . PS You threw around as many ten dollar words as you could

> get

> > > your

> > > > > spell-check program to find for you, but you revealed

> something

> > > else about

> > > > > yourself-your spell check could not save you from using the

> wrong

> > > version

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You are clearly untutored in reader-repsonse theory and have not

> yet

> > > gleaned

> > > > that, when deconstructed in the socioeconomic text-based memes,

> then

> > > shifts

> > > > its signifier-status to than. But this is all beside the point.

> > > How can you

> > > > not comprehend that Homo Faber can never properly be placed in

> > > parity with

> > > > Homo sapiens? Have you read any Derridda? Or attempted

> > > deconstructing the

> > > > paradigm of agape? (Or do you think it always comes back to the

> > > demotic Eros?)

> > > >

> > > > Can you cite one higher-functioning prestidigitator who endorses

> > > humility cum

> > > > absement, or gratitude?

> > > >

> > > > In sum: Have you understood one word I have written?

> > >

> > > Hi Mona,

> > >

> > > *NO*! 10-to-1 very few others on the list here have

> " attempted

> > > deconstructing the paradigm of agape " either. Or if they did,

> maybe

> > > they weren't even aware of the fact! Can you please be more

> > > specific...examples...and a little less wordy? I am interested in

> > > these topics. The program is all about humility and powerlessness

> and

> > > I ended up rejecting these ideas on my own, but would be

> interested in

> > > finding a disciplined discussion of it.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > PS: here is a link to www.dictionary.com. Did you really mean

> > > " juggler " ?

> > >

> > > http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=prestidigitator

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I get agitated and defensive when I see people bashing someone or

something with no regards to truth , reasonableness and reality. The things

I see people here say happen at twelve step group meetings I NEVER saw once

in about 100 - 150 meetings . Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> >

> >

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >

> > > <snip>

> > > > They " reconcile " by *blaming*

> > > > the person suffering and by minimizing the issues ( " get off your

> > > > pity-pot. At least you can walk. Did you ever think about people

who

> > > > don't have the use of their legs? " I heard this too).

> > >

> > > Or, as I once read:

> > >

> > > " I cried because I had no feet, until I met a man who had no

> >penis. "

> > >

> > > (Can't remember where, or I would credit the author.)

> > >

> > > -- Bob Marshall

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Mona's throwing words around, and she is gonna slip a disk if she isn't

careful, LOL. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> LOL! I'm powerless! I'm powerless! I'm powerless to understand what Mona

has written! I

> can only turn my intellect over the care of the dictionary as I read it,

and pray for

> conscious comprehension of Mona's meaning and the power to talk that way

myself!

>

> (Hi, Mike...Mona's just having some fun here. :-) And I'm just having

some fun, too.)

>

> Cheers,

>

> nz

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The only psychodrama Manson knows about is being a guru and manipulating weak minded people. the only pugilistics john wayne gacy engaged in was beating up on a boy half his size and age, with the boys hands tied behind his back,while the boy was tied to a chair. Please do not cite these filth to me as something to think about-they are both where they belong- nonexistent. As to why I persist-why should I change my opinion because some alleged 'giant' thinks some other way is better.

You think you are pretty smart, but I bet I could WAX you in a game of chess. Boys are better than girls at chess-you know why? Because boys are SMARTER than girls. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

She is full of shit. She cannot admit she made a grammar error, and she cannot, of course prove she is right. I didn't know she was like this, but like I said, I have learned something about her. Your inability to transcend dichotomous, text-based Strunk-Whitism is perturbing at best. The orations giving rise to your paeans to self-mutiliation of the psyche, are the issue at hand. Not one of the many giants of self-aware theodicy, from Horatio Alger to Martha , embraces your meekness-cum-virtue leitmotif. Yet you persist. Why? Perhaps if you pondered this facile theory at the level I intend you to, you would surmount your difficulty. Try C. Manson on the Skeltering of Psychodrama, or J. W. Gacy on Pugilistics. --Mona-- --Mona--

[Guest guest]

I don't know if they are lying and I don't know what their motivation to lie

would be, but I have definitely felt contempt for 12 step groups and

advocates in this mailing list. I just get riled up when the contempt

manifests in exaggeration and lies. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > From: <ahicks@s...>

> > > > > <snip>

> > > > > > They " reconcile " by *blaming*

> > > > > > the person suffering and by minimizing the issues ( " get off

> your

> > > > > > pity-pot. At least you can walk. Did you ever think about

> people

> > who

> > > > > > don't have the use of their legs? " I heard this too).

> > > > >

> > > > > Or, as I once read:

> > > > >

> > > > > " I cried because I had no feet, until I met a man who

> had no

> > > >penis. "

> > > > >

> > > > > (Can't remember where, or I would credit the author.)

> > > > >

> > > > > -- Bob Marshall

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

thanks for the reply Pete.

Peace,

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:04:54 -0000

>

>Hi ,

>

>I'm sorry if I seemed flippant about Autism and Asperger's Syndrome in

>these posts and I hope you werent upset but it. I have studied them as

>part of a Psychology degree. As you will be knowledgeable

>about them you probably know that Asperger himself thought that the

>syndrome and the related autism are merely extremes of male

>psychology, that tend to be characterized by greater social aloofness,

>stereotypical habits, and preoccupation with mechanical devices and

>intellectual abstractions, than females, which is why they are more

>common in males. My own father might well have been dxed with

>Asperger's if he had ever been evaluated. He could name the lengths

>of all the railway tunnnels and cuttings between Manchester nad

>Liverpool and London. when I told a clinical psychologist this he

>laughed and said that that was practically diagnostic by itself. I

>often joked with a psychologist friend about how chess, bridge,

>computer programmers and science fiction fans are mostly men who are

>either fat with beards (like me) or skinny and clean shaven, and

>both socially gauche: Either impulsive and chaotic, or excessively

>restrained and conscientious. You can probably add poker players to

>the list too.

>

>P.

>

>

> > <snip>

> >

> > The jury is out on the relative abilities of males and females at

> > >chess, but it's likely that there are few top women players simply

> > >because girls are smart enough to spot a waste of time when they

>see

> > >it. It is a decdiedly male characteristic to become obsessional

>about

> > >intricate matters of no consequence; it's called autism.

> >

> > My son has Autism. If you'd like to learn about it, I could

>recommend

> > several good web sites. There is now fortunetly alot of good info

>available

> > to help educate people regarding this neurological disorder.

> >

> > ,

> > ~I will not take my thoughts for granted,

> > for they may be my only guide.

> >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

More name-calling. Aren't you the one who was calling me a 'loser' about

three or four weeks ago? Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> ----- Original Message -----

>

>

>

> > Lighten up.

> >

> >

> <snip>

> > > You think you are pretty smart, but I bet I could WAX you in a game

> > of chess. Boys are better than girls at chess-you know why? Because

> > boys are SMARTER than girls. Mike.

>

> Yeah, and an autistic savant could perform mathematical and date

> calculations, or play a musical instrument, or solve certain types of

> puzzles far better than I ever could.

> For that matter, I remember an old carnival game where the chicken

> always wins playing tic tac toe, so I guess a turkey can probably play

> chess.

>

> -- Bob Marshall

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No thank you. If they are there, I didn't see them,and they were operating

surreptitiously. Maybe(and I am starting to think this is more likely than

anything) they are more prevalent at AA than at NA. Many drunks are

miserable types of people(they use the term dry-drunk). I know the one

friend of mine who is an alcoholic is a loud, obnoxious, never can be

wrong-even when he is wrong with everything he says drunk. he has been

permanently banned from more than one tavern for his obnoxious mouth, and I

know at least two other friends who have saved him from a well- deserved

ass-kicking he was going to get in a bar. I never knew any drug addicts who

acted out like that- so like I said, maybe this phenomenon is more

prevalent in AA. In any event, I never saw anything like what people here

say they have experienced, maybe it was because I didn't socialize with

anyone except at meetings. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > > > > From: <ahicks@s...>

> > > > > > <snip>

> > > > > > > They " reconcile " by *blaming*

> > > > > > > the person suffering and by minimizing the issues ( " get

> off

> > your

> > > > > > > pity-pot. At least you can walk. Did you ever think

> about

> > people

> > > who

> > > > > > > don't have the use of their legs? " I heard this too).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or, as I once read:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " I cried because I had no feet, until I met a man

> who

> > had no

> > > > >penis. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (Can't remember where, or I would credit the

> author.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -- Bob Marshall

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I thought you said I could not name one-that's why I mentioned Jesus. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

By the way, Jesus Christ is a 'high functioning prestidigitator " who advocates "humility cum abasement". YES! By , you're getting it, Mike! And the 12 Steps are drawn from, and written by a convert to, the Oxford Group, which was a religious movement devoted to the high-functioning prestidigitator, Jesus Christ. You are beginning to see. --Mona--

[Guest guest]

I didn't write that. Mike.

Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

>

> > In a message dated 6/25/01 6:09:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time,

> > mikdan7@h... writes:

> Martha

> embraces

> > your meekness-cum-virtue leitmotif.

>

> Meekness-cum-virtue? Ms Hollamd, now you are indeed becoming kinky!

>

> P.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is a fact that men in general are better at chess than women. You tell

me - a non regular player that I would get my butt kicked by three

different women's champions in chess. No shit. I bet the sisters

would make me look real bad in tennis too. So what. That doesn't mean they

can beat Boris Becker. Mike.

Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

>

>

> > You think you are pretty smart, but I bet I could WAX you in a game

> >of chess. Boys are better than girls at chess-you know why? Because

> >boys are SMARTER than girls. Mike.

>

> The Polgar sisters could eat your liver at chess, together with 99.9%

> of male chessplayers. Even Britain's own Kathy Forbes'd have your ass

> I've no doubt. If Mona plays, I'd bet she could.

>

> The jury is out on the relative abilities of males and females at

> chess, but it's likely that there are few top women players simply

> because girls are smart enough to spot a waste of time when they see

> it. It is a decdiedly male characteristic to become obsessional about

> intricate matters of no consequence; it's called autism.

>

> P., a regular and indifferent chess player.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know how to play bridge, but I bet I could play spades as good as you. By the way men are better card players than women, also-it seems in almost every category of competition there are men's categories and then there is the sub-category for women competitors. In fact, I cannot think of one competitive arena where the men are in a sub-category to the women. No offense. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

The jury is out on the relative abilities of males and females at chess, but it's likely that there are few top women players simply because girls are smart enough to spot a waste of time when they see it. It is a decdiedly male characteristic to become obsessional about intricate matters of no consequence; it's called autism. Ah Pete, I could only wish that were true. I have little doubt Mikey could beat me at Chess, because it never caught my fancy. What Mikey could not beat me at, however, is the utterly inconsequential but rapturously enjoyable game called Bridge. --Mona--

[Guest guest]

I have played trivial pursuit and I do pretty well. I have played along with "Ben Stein's Money" and the only time in the whole show where I cannot beat Ben stein is in the final 'booth ' portion of the show, which any astute observer can see is loaded and tilted in favor of Catholic bashing Ben Stein. Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

It is a fact that men in general are better at chess than women. This is true. In the aggregate, men are superior in matters concerning spatial relationships than women are. Of course, this us tells nothing about the capabilities of any particular man or woman. I haven't played Chess in over 20 years, and have no doubt that most regular-playing kids could beat me at that game. You probably could too, Mikey. But I'd have ya screaming for mercy, Mikey, at: 1. Trivial Pursuit; 2. Outburst; 3. Jeopardy; or 4. The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. --Mona--

[Guest guest]

well - signing off & wishing you all the peace you are seeking.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:29:26 -0000

>

>HI Kayleigh

>

>It's so hard to tell with emails but am I right that youre joking

>here? Your son's happy and there's no problem, and you know that he

>is who he is and that you've been the famous " good enough mother " for

>him? If he's a bit too offbeat for college and has some odd talents

>but he's happy and well-liked, there's no problem.

>

>P.

>

>

> > > > Christ, you just described my so, except that socially he is

>very

> > > > adept.

> > >

> > > Not anything anyone would have said about my Dad. According to my

> > > brothers, the priest at his funeral (not knowing they were there

>or

> > > that they even existed) basically said what a complete

> > pain-in-the-ass

> > > my Dad had been, as if to kind of damp down any unease folks might

> > > have had at the sense of relief the congregation had at his

>passing.

> > >

> > > Superficially he appeared affable to tohers, but he had a very

>dark

> > > side to him I have written about before. In response to my little

> > > " Feorge Formby " skit, Mandolin replied as if my stepfather had

> > raised

> > > me (he didnt). If he wonders where I get it from, my real father

> > > and mother are the place to look.

> > >

> > > P.

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

If you say so, who am I to disagree? Mike.

Re: Re: Further Akron AA lunacy

but I bet I could play spades as good as you.Golly gee, I doubt it muchly Mikey. I am confident I would outperform you in Spades, as it is but Baby Bridge. And if you are waiting for me to rise to your feminist-baiting, you have the wrong girlie. None of that stuff bothers me. In law school I had a feminazi legal writing prof who so annoyed me that I turned in a writing assignment under the firm name "Bimbos, Chicks, Broads & Dames." Anywhoooo, I would not trounce you in any intellectual endeavor in which I have an iota of experience by virtue of gender characteristics or lack thereof, Mikey. I'd whup your ass because I'm smart and you are...less so. --Mona--