Re: social doctor encounters

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi.

> When was the last time someone mentioned excretory

> functions to you on a date?

>

> J

>

Well, I'm about to celebrate 20 years with a man that watched me come

down with food poisoning and throw up for for our first date - right

in the middle of the movie, no less. ;-)

Maureen

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the laugh.

I have two friends who are MDs, and they've both been very helpful to

me although neither one of them is " MY " doctor. And my own doctor?

Poor guy - he's got a tough job with me on his list. But I thank him

and his NP for saving my life on more than one occasion.

But it was a " GI specialist " who told me I couldn't be celiac because

I wasn't sick enough. It's that " fatties can't be celiac " bias again,

I believe.

In terms of doctors and their social skills? Well, I used to work at a

world-renowned Medical School... and Boy, Do I have some stories!

Let's just say that most of the doctors you know were the nerds you

avoided in high school. And we'll leave it at that. :-) The doctors in

clinical practice are the ones with GOOD social skills. The ones who

are obsessive about work and can't relate with other humans are the

researchers who come up with new discoveries, treatments, new genetic

mapping, medicines, technology, and what not.

One of my friends who's an MD has two children now in college. Both of

his children want to be MDs. He's a little bit sad about that because

he knows it's a really tough road and a really tough job. It'll be

interesting to see what time brings in that regard.

When I was young I wanted to be a doctor. And then I discovered that

the mere THOUGHT of someone else in pain was enough to make me faint.

Pass right out cold. Right there on the floor. No discussion, no

debate, no question. THINK about pain? Faint. Didn't even have to see

blood. Only had to think about pain and I was out. That does NOT make

a good quality for a doctor! So, I became an engineer instead.

Please, no jokes about how engineers shouldn't talk about a doctor's

social skills!!!! :-) I already know it's the pot calling the kettle

black.

Esther in RI, USA

>

> Hi.

>

> People are always sharing their stories about medical encounters with

> doctors, so I thought that I would share two stories about recent

> social encounters with them.

>

>

[Guest guest]

My husband says he doesn't really remember studying celiac disease in

med school. when I was diagnosed he read up on it through the links

I sent him, then the kids got diagnosed and he became a fanatic. Now

he has been diagnosed as having celiac disease and his is now an

evangelist.

So did you go on any second dates?

Shez

[Guest guest]

I had several dates with each of them before it got too complicated to

keep counting. Celiac has never been an issue, in itself, but it was

a great indicator of empathy. Still, empathy seems inversely

associated with emotional stability, so maybe I have enough empathy

for two! I can keep y'all updated. Both are in a holding pattern,

each for a specific (different) reason.

Wrt Esther's comments about doctors' social skills: I'm a

statistician, so no comment about relative social skills from me!

J

> My husband says he doesn't really remember studying celiac disease in

> med school. when I was diagnosed he read up on it through the links

> I sent him, then the kids got diagnosed and he became a fanatic. Now

> he has been diagnosed as having celiac disease and his is now an

> evangelist.

>

> So did you go on any second dates?

>

> Shez

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But we all know, the real question is:

Did the European have a cute, sexy accent ;-)

[Guest guest]

> But we all know, the real question is:

>

> Did the European have a cute, sexy accent ;-)

>

> ==================

That reminds me of the time I went for a job interview and the person

doing the interviewing was this 6ft5, blonde, blue-eye Dutch guy with

the body of a god and the sexiest accent I have ever heard.

It was the funniest interview I have ever had. The sparks were

flying and we finally stopped the interview and just stared into each

other's eyes. That was the start of one of the hottest romances I

have ever had.

Shez

[Guest guest]

> It was the funniest interview I have ever had. The sparks were

> flying and we finally stopped the interview and just stared into each

> other's eyes. That was the start of one of the hottest romances I

> have ever had.

What a great story.

So, what profession are you in? Can I join? :-)

J

[Guest guest]

>

> What a great story.

> So, what profession are you in? Can I join? :-)

============

LOL, I was in pharmaceutical marketing. Now I am a full time

homeschooling mom

Shez

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> > What a great story.

> > So, what profession are you in? Can I join? :-)

> ============

>

> LOL, I was in pharmaceutical marketing. Now I am a full time

> homeschooling mom

>

> Shez

>

Ya know, when you put " Mom, " " homeschooler, " and " celiac household

manager " together in one person, they really ought to find a word

bigger than " full-time! "

DH and I recently figured it out: my last " day off " when I had more

than 1 consecutive hour of free time was in October - the week before

we began homeschooling.

I, too, am a graduate of the pharmaceutical industry - there's a

reason I have no faith in corporate America!

Maureen

[Guest guest]

> en you put " Mom, " " homeschooler, " and " celiac household

> manager " together in one person, they really ought to find a word

> bigger than " full-time! "

>

> DH and I recently figured it out: my last " day off " when I had more

> than 1 consecutive hour of free time was in October - the week before

> we began homeschooling.

>

> I, too, am a graduate of the pharmaceutical industry - there's a

> reason I have no faith in corporate America!

>

> Maureen

============

I didn't realize that you also homeschooled. Now that I know the kids

are celiacs I am so glad we are homeschooling. it is so much easier

to manage their diet when they are at home.

ditto on the reason for not having faith in the corporate world.

Whenever I read about how docs don't think about checking for celiac

I just nod sagely. there is no way they are going to think about

checking for it until some hot little sales rep comes to their office

bearing food and goodies.

I commissioned a study to find out which journals were the best to

place our ads in. Turns out that the majority of doctors don't even

take their journals out of the plastic wrappers they come in. They

let the journals pile up until the pile is high enough and then

throw it away. They admitted that their primary source of information

is the drug rep.

Shez

[Guest guest]

I totally agree. I’m a full-time

homeschooling (probably) celiac household mom also. But I need to go back to

work as soon as I feel good. Sigh.

Laurie

lbilyeu@...

From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of marcianar

Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006

8:55 PM

To: SillyYaks

Subject: Re: social

doctor encounters

>

> >

> > What a great story.

> > So, what profession are you in?

Can I join? :-)

> ============

>

> LOL, I was in pharmaceutical marketing.

Now I am a full time

> homeschooling mom

>

> Shez

>

Ya know, when you put " Mom, "

" homeschooler, " and " celiac household

manager " together in one person, they really

ought to find a word

bigger than " full-time! "

DH and I recently figured it out: my last

" day off " when I had more

than 1 consecutive hour of free time was in

October - the week before

we began homeschooling.

I, too, am a graduate of the pharmaceutical

industry - there's a

reason I have no faith in corporate America!

Maureen

[Guest guest]

I realize this post has gotten off topic - and I usually ignore all the slams against the medical profession - but I can't ignore this one. As a medical professional myself - a female family practitioner - I ask you to please not generalize your statements as if all one group of people act, think, and behave the same. To state that doctors won't pay attention unless a hot drug rep comes in(which I take great offense to) - and that no journals are read and all info comes from drug reps - is a far cry from the truth. I don't know what era or what geographical location your experience is from - but it sure isn't accurate in my neck of the woods. Granted not all the doctors here are aware of celiac - although I am impressed that some are testing many people - to jump to those other derogatory statements is crude.

I am in Minnesota - my daughter has celiac so I am very aware of it - test a ton of people and have not diagnosed one - but will keep testing. I am happily married as are most of my collegues - and we do not gawk at drug reps, in fact - most clinics and hospitals in Minnesota no longer see drug reps, do not accept even donuts from them, and read plenty of good unbiased literature and attend conferences and speakers to learn from the experts and specialists (those being other physicians - not drug reps). I do not read all my journals - many do go in the garbage in the wrappers - because many are biased and not very credible. But I do go to evidence based medical sites and journals for my information. The internet has virtually made wrapped journals unneeded.

Instead of advertising about celiac in magazines - I know I pay no attention to the ads (can't generalize that but I don't have time) - offer to give a noon talk to the doctors and nurses at your local clinics and or hospitals on celiac disease - from a personal perspective. You probably do know more than most of them. If they are not receptive to that - then maybe you need to go somewhere else. My group of docs would be very open to that. Or join with a doctor there and present together. Unfortunately, there is an attitude that doctors should know it all. With the thousands of diseases out there, the hundreds of treatments, it is impossible to know everything. We are not God. We are humans also - with limited time in our day - like you - and can only know and learn so much. Celiac has unfortunately, I agree with most of you, not been taught adequately in med schools. I too learned it was seen rarely and in the skinny malnourished people. I know better know. But instead of bash doctors - I try to be proactive about it. I give lectures to other doctors about it - and hope to get to our local medical school to talk to the future doctors about it. I urge you to do the same. Again, we are not perfect - if I knew every allergy and disease, every medciation that each allergy could have or not have - I would be God. ANd there are days I wish I was. We all still have to be our own advocate and our children's. I don't expect my doctor to know every medication my daughter can have. I either go in prepared with a list - or ask them to look if they can (and give them the website). If your doctor is offended, or like I have read many times - won't run the tests you want - find a new doctor. But please don't expect them to know it all. With your help, they should be willing to do what it takes to help you maintain your health. But it takes a partnership.

When my daughter was first diagnosed with a few genetic syndromes - I was appalled at the lack of diagnosis I recieved from numerous physicians, the lack of knowledge and sensitivity or understanding to what we were going through. But then I became proactive and I give talks to hundreds of physicians from a parent and professional point of view - and it is always well recieved. One pediatrician even said it was the best talk on special needs children they had heard. This is a specialist talking - I am just family practice. But what makes it great - and real - is that it is almost all the parent/personal perspective!! So - don't feel like you don;t have the credentials to go talk to your medical community. You know more than any of them - you live it daily. They will never have that opportunity - and never know as much (so don't expect them to) - but help them to diagnose and run the tests more often - give them the websites and tools to help their patients with celiac. Tell them the statistics - show them how common it is. Give them the nuts and bolts - the personal story and struggle - and any tools you own. Then - we will start seeing more peopl on the list serv who were diagnosed more quickly, and are not so frustrated or have the lasting effects of gluten damage. This is a huge list serv - I challenge you all to take the time - talk to your providers. Some will chose to remain ignorant and they are not the physicians you want - but some - likely even many - will listen, take the tools you give them, and apply them daily. And you will have made a difference in the lives of many. Sorry about my rambling - just sick of being bashed when I don't deserve it - and hoping to urge everyone to help educate all of us directly. I know I am currently planning a talk to my group about celiac and have seen a lot of interest so far.

Thanks for you time - Stacey (fam practice in MN - mother to 4, one with celiac, turner syndrome, trisomy 9, apraxia, dysrthria, sensory integration dysfunction....)

Please feel free to contact me offline if you would like to know how to approach your medical community or anything else luetmer@...

Re: Re: social doctor encounters

> en you put "Mom," "homeschooler," and "celiac household> manager" together in one person, they really ought to find a word> bigger than "full-time!">> DH and I recently figured it out: my last "day off" when I had more> than 1 consecutive hour of free time was in October - the week before> we began homeschooling.>> I, too, am a graduate of the pharmaceutical industry - there's a> reason I have no faith in corporate America!>> Maureen============I didn't realize that you also homeschooled. Now that I know the kids are celiacs I am so glad we are homeschooling. it is so much easier to manage their diet when they are at home.ditto on the reason for not having faith in the corporate world.Whenever I read about how docs don't think about checking for celiac I just nod sagely. there is no way they are going to think about checking for it until some hot little sales rep comes to their office bearing food and goodies.I commissioned a study to find out which journals were the best to place our ads in. Turns out that the majority of doctors don't even take their journals out of the plastic wrappers they come in. They let the journals pile up until the pile is high enough and then throw it away. They admitted that their primary source of information is the drug rep.Shez

[Guest guest]

You’re right on every count Stacey.

Thank you for reminding us. I certainly can’t stay abreast of everything

in my own specialty in life—why should any other professional be able to?

(Except that when I’m gluten free again and have my brain back, I’m

just sure I’ll have enough energy to catch up on everything…)

I have thought that as soon as my own

diagnostic process and healing is complete I will write a grateful and

informative letter to all of the professionals who tried to help me but couldn’t

find an answer. They were all sincere and concerned, every one of them, and

gave all of the wisdom they had out of their own perspective and specialty.

Maybe I can help them add to their repertoire.

Laurie

lbilyeu@...

From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of Home Email

Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:06

AM

To: SillyYaks

Subject: Re: Re:

social doctor encounters

I realize this post has gotten off topic - and I usually

ignore all the slams against the medical profession - but I can't ignore this

one. As a medical professional myself - a female family practitioner - I

ask you to please not generalize your statements as if all one group of people

act, think, and behave the same. To state that doctors won't pay

attention unless a hot drug rep comes in(which I take great offense to) -

and that no journals are read and all info comes from drug reps - is a far cry

from the truth. I don't know what era or what geographical location your

experience is from - but it sure isn't accurate in my neck of the woods.

Granted not all the doctors here are aware of celiac - although I am impressed

that some are testing many people - to jump to those other derogatory

statements is crude.

I am in Minnesota

- my daughter has celiac so I am very aware of it - test a ton of people and

have not diagnosed one - but will keep testing. I am happily married as

are most of my collegues - and we do not gawk at drug reps, in fact - most

clinics and hospitals in Minnesota no longer see drug reps, do not accept even

donuts from them, and read plenty of good unbiased literature and attend conferences

and speakers to learn from the experts and specialists (those being other

physicians - not drug reps). I do not read all my journals - many do go

in the garbage in the wrappers - because many are biased and not very

credible. But I do go to evidence based medical sites and journals for my

information. The internet has virtually made wrapped journals

unneeded.

Instead of advertising about celiac in magazines - I know I

pay no attention to the ads (can't generalize that but I don't have time) - offer

to give a noon talk to the doctors and nurses at your local clinics and or

hospitals on celiac disease - from a personal perspective. You probably

do know more than most of them. If they are not receptive to that - then

maybe you need to go somewhere else. My group of docs would be very open

to that. Or join with a doctor there and present together.

Unfortunately, there is an attitude that doctors should know it all. With

the thousands of diseases out there, the hundreds of treatments, it is impossible

to know everything. We are not God. We are humans also - with

limited time in our day - like you - and can only know and learn so much.

Celiac has unfortunately, I agree with most of you, not been taught adequately

in med schools. I too learned it was seen rarely and in the skinny

malnourished people. I know better know. But instead of bash

doctors - I try to be proactive about it. I give lectures to other

doctors about it - and hope to get to our local medical school to talk to the

future doctors about it. I urge you to do the same. Again, we are

not perfect - if I knew every allergy and disease, every medciation that each

allergy could have or not have - I would be God. ANd there are days I

wish I was. We all still have to be our own advocate and our

children's. I don't expect my doctor to know every medication my daughter

can have. I either go in prepared with a list - or ask them to look if

they can (and give them the website). If your doctor is offended, or like

I have read many times - won't run the tests you want - find a new

doctor. But please don't expect them to know it all. With your

help, they should be willing to do what it takes to help you maintain your

health. But it takes a partnership.

When my daughter was first diagnosed with a few genetic

syndromes - I was appalled at the lack of diagnosis I recieved from numerous

physicians, the lack of knowledge and sensitivity or understanding to what we

were going through. But then I became proactive and I give talks to

hundreds of physicians from a parent and professional point of view - and it is

always well recieved. One pediatrician even said it was the best talk on

special needs children they had heard. This is a specialist talking - I

am just family practice. But what makes it great - and real - is that it

is almost all the parent/personal perspective!! So - don't feel like you

don;t have the credentials to go talk to your medical community. You know

more than any of them - you live it daily. They will never have that

opportunity - and never know as much (so don't expect them to) - but help them

to diagnose and run the tests more often - give them the websites and tools to

help their patients with celiac. Tell them the statistics - show them how

common it is. Give them the nuts and bolts - the personal story and

struggle - and any tools you own. Then - we will start seeing more peopl

on the list serv who were diagnosed more quickly, and are not so frustrated or

have the lasting effects of gluten damage. This is a huge list serv - I

challenge you all to take the time - talk to your providers. Some will

chose to remain ignorant and they are not the physicians you want - but some -

likely even many - will listen, take the tools you give them, and apply them daily.

And you will have made a difference in the lives of many. Sorry about my

rambling - just sick of being bashed when I don't deserve it - and hoping to

urge everyone to help educate all of us directly. I know I am currently

planning a talk to my group about celiac and have seen a lot of interest so

far.

Thanks for you time - Stacey (fam practice in MN - mother to

4, one with celiac, turner syndrome, trisomy 9, apraxia, dysrthria, sensory

integration dysfunction....)

Please feel free to contact me offline if you would like to

know how to approach your medical community or anything else luetmer@...

Re:

Re: social doctor encounters

> en you put " Mom, "

" homeschooler, " and " celiac household

> manager " together in one person, they

really ought to find a word

> bigger than " full-time! "

>

> DH and I recently figured it out: my last

" day off " when I had more

> than 1 consecutive hour of free time was in

October - the week before

> we began homeschooling.

>

> I, too, am a graduate of the pharmaceutical

industry - there's a

> reason I have no faith in corporate America!

>

> Maureen

============

I didn't realize that you also homeschooled. Now

that I know the kids

are celiacs I am so glad we are homeschooling. it

is so much easier

to manage their diet when they are at home.

ditto on the reason for not having faith in the

corporate world.

Whenever I read about how docs don't think about

checking for celiac

I just nod sagely. there is no way they are going

to think about

checking for it until some hot little sales rep

comes to their office

bearing food and goodies.

I commissioned a study to find out which journals

were the best to

place our ads in. Turns out that the majority of

doctors don't even

take their journals out of the plastic wrappers

they come in. They

let the journals pile up until the pile is high

enough and then

throw it away. They admitted that their primary

source of information

is the drug rep.

Shez