Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 You do not have to be empty with this iron. (mine?). And you don't have to do it first. I laid 'em out that way to " get it out of the way " . So, you can have a protein first, then iron or then something else & put the iron (still alone, together) later in the day after there's some food on board. Just no dairy or caffeine in the same hour. Thanks, Vitalady T www.vitalady.com Questions Hi all - I am 19 days post op - its been an interesting 19 days - my left side is sore from the scope - and in babying that side I irritated an old bone graft site on the same side. So...parked on my heating pad and gonna try a half day tomorrow... I went back the day after Labor Day full time and landed my butt right back home - totally exhausted and ready to curl up and die. Oh well... Question - bet Mom has answers for me... I have been taking the iron/Vitamin C combination first thing in the am - an hour before anything else but water goes in. My new pouch does not LIKE this at all. I feel pretty urpy for several hours - and there is little that seems to help that except time and patience - I have some Nexium and that takes the edge off - and makes me able to take in a bit more a bit sooner. The rest of the vitamins are fine - its just those two - and I really hate to spend every day feeling uck for the am. I have been working on getting in my protein shakes - and they don't sit as well as I wish they did - they are too rich - I have tried cutting em down - mixing two different ones - partial scoops - diluting with more water........HELP......... I have visions of my hair falling out by the handfuls - sighs - and I really don't mind the taste but my pouch says- WHOOPS - too rich- dump em...which is exactly what happens. The good news - I most definitely am not constipated....whew........thank God... I know that I need to get in more protein than I am - I WANT to get in more than I am - but - I hate the urpy feeling... KK - Any thoughts and ideas on this I would gratefully appreciate - help help help... Hanging at 32# lost in 19 days - that has slowed too so I know I am not gettin in enough - Hugs from deb in NE May those who love us love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we'll know them by their limping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 But I can't take the iron with my Zoloft and Singulair can I? Crossing my fingers - yupper its your iron - hugs deb in NE Questions Hi all - I am 19 days post op - its been an interesting 19 days - my left side is sore from the scope - and in babying that side I irritated an old bone graft site on the same side. So...parked on my heating pad and gonna try a half day tomorrow... I went back the day after Labor Day full time and landed my butt right back home - totally exhausted and ready to curl up and die. Oh well... Question - bet Mom has answers for me... I have been taking the iron/Vitamin C combination first thing in the am - an hour before anything else but water goes in. My new pouch does not LIKE this at all. I feel pretty urpy for several hours - and there is little that seems to help that except time and patience - I have some Nexium and that takes the edge off - and makes me able to take in a bit more a bit sooner. The rest of the vitamins are fine - its just those two - and I really hate to spend every day feeling uck for the am. I have been working on getting in my protein shakes - and they don't sit as well as I wish they did - they are too rich - I have tried cutting em down - mixing two different ones - partial scoops - diluting with more water........HELP......... I have visions of my hair falling out by the handfuls - sighs - and I really don't mind the taste but my pouch says- WHOOPS - too rich- dump em...which is exactly what happens. The good news - I most definitely am not constipated....whew........thank God... I know that I need to get in more protein than I am - I WANT to get in more than I am - but - I hate the urpy feeling... KK - Any thoughts and ideas on this I would gratefully appreciate - help help help... Hanging at 32# lost in 19 days - that has slowed too so I know I am not gettin in enough - Hugs from deb in NE May those who love us love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we'll know them by their limping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 What is Singulair? I would say a blanket no, but you can ask the pharmacist. Thanks, Vitalady T www.vitalady.com Questions Hi all - I am 19 days post op - its been an interesting 19 days - my left side is sore from the scope - and in babying that side I irritated an old bone graft site on the same side. So...parked on my heating pad and gonna try a half day tomorrow... I went back the day after Labor Day full time and landed my butt right back home - totally exhausted and ready to curl up and die. Oh well... Question - bet Mom has answers for me... I have been taking the iron/Vitamin C combination first thing in the am - an hour before anything else but water goes in. My new pouch does not LIKE this at all. I feel pretty urpy for several hours - and there is little that seems to help that except time and patience - I have some Nexium and that takes the edge off - and makes me able to take in a bit more a bit sooner. The rest of the vitamins are fine - its just those two - and I really hate to spend every day feeling uck for the am. I have been working on getting in my protein shakes - and they don't sit as well as I wish they did - they are too rich - I have tried cutting em down - mixing two different ones - partial scoops - diluting with more water........HELP......... I have visions of my hair falling out by the handfuls - sighs - and I really don't mind the taste but my pouch says- WHOOPS - too rich- dump em...which is exactly what happens. The good news - I most definitely am not constipated....whew........thank God... I know that I need to get in more protein than I am - I WANT to get in more than I am - but - I hate the urpy feeling... KK - Any thoughts and ideas on this I would gratefully appreciate - help help help... Hanging at 32# lost in 19 days - that has slowed too so I know I am not gettin in enough - Hugs from deb in NE May those who love us love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we'll know them by their limping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 how far out? Please say it is not 4 wks. Questions Hi all - have more questions - seems like they never end - pre or post op - sighs... I am having trouble getting in my vitamins - they are all set and ready to take - and I work on it every day - but - the hair, skin, and nails really upset my pouch - I am not sure why. I take them with at least fifteen minutes between each - I have tried with and without food before them - and they just make my pouch ache. I had the flu last week - its rampant around here - and maybe that did it - but - I really don't want it to hurt like that daily. I thought that there might be something wrong - but - after an hour of hurt - it goes away. HELP me here gang. It seems like I am fighting to get in my protein, pills, water - every day. I am trying very hard - and I need to start exercising here soon - any thoughts on where to start with that? I really have not much of an appetite - I do a lot of s/f jello and s/f popscicles - does it make sense to say that food 'bores' me? I guess that that is just how I feel. I did try some Crystal Light with the Is May those who love us love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we'll know them by their limping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 (((((((((((((BIG HUG DEB))))))))))))))) Hang in there things will work out.. I would say lay off the vitamin until your back on your feet, if you can at least get your multi vit in I would mainly considerate on that along with your extra cal. It could be too much to soon for you. What worked for me is writing everything down that needs to get in, in a day, and set times...... 5am: Protein 6 - Breakfast 6:30 1st set of vitamins Water water water that is an example it works and I still go by my schedule as much as possible. When I have long days its a little harder to get my protein or something like food in. But I make sure I get my vitamins they are always with me. I'm going to learn like does with her protein bottles let the air dry and stick some in the car for when I am out I'll have those with me as well. I hope things get better, just relax and recoup. Theresa~ *The most beautiful things in the world can not be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart. ~Helen Keller~ Questions Hi all - have more questions - seems like they never end - pre or post op - sighs... I am having trouble getting in my vitamins - they are all set and ready to take - and I work on it every day - but - the hair, skin, and nails really upset my pouch - I am not sure why. I take them with at least fifteen minutes between each - I have tried with and without food before them - and they just make my pouch ache. I had the flu last week - its rampant around here - and maybe that did it - but - I really don't want it to hurt like that daily. I thought that there might be something wrong - but - after an hour of hurt - it goes away. HELP me here gang. It seems like I am fighting to get in my protein, pills, water - every day. I am trying very hard - and I need to start exercising here soon - any thoughts on where to start with that? I really have not much of an appetite - I do a lot of s/f jello and s/f popscicles - does it make sense to say that food 'bores' me? I guess that that is just how I feel. I did try some Crystal Light with the Isopure Fruit Punch and that went down well - I mixed it with a bit much water and ended up taking 2 hours to sip it down - but - it tasted good so will try that again. Well - I think I am just cranky and tired and have a full day of work tomorrow - gonna try it again. Thanks everyone for listening - and just letting me 'whine' - and no - I don't need any cheese with my whine... Chuckles - I am headed to bed - good night all - and God bless each and every one of you for the special people that you are.. hugs from deb in NE May those who love us love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if He doesn't turn their hearts, May He turn their ankles, So we'll know them by their limping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 LMAO he is a spoiled man. But a loveable one lol. He's a keeper. Re: Questions Deb - I have had problems with the Hair, skin, and Nails pills, too. They are just so doggone huge. I tried cutting them into smaller pieces, like thirds, but then those got stuck in my throat, and the sharp edges hurt going down. You could try that and see how it goes for you. I am going to order the Avon ones after these are gone. You could also switch to taking plain biotin until you are further along, and then try them again. I hope things start going a little more smoothly for you. Hang in there. Jeanne in WI Age 39 Open RNY 05/21/2002 314/ 255./150-175 5' 8 " djgraves@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 First YOU spoil him, then you want US to spoil him? Sheesh. I'm making him write his own invoices next time! LOL! Re: Questions Deb - I have had problems with the Hair, skin, and Nails pills, too. They are just so doggone huge. I tried cutting them into smaller pieces, like thirds, but then those got stuck in my throat, and the sharp edges hurt going down. You could try that and see how it goes for you. I am going to order the Avon ones after these are gone. You could also switch to taking plain biotin until you are further along, and then try them again. I hope things start going a little more smoothly for you. Hang in there. Jeanne in WI Age 39 Open RNY 05/21/2002 314/ 255./150-175 5' 8 " djgraves@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 yeah they are at the bottom of the shelf. They are sf. lol Re: Questions > > Deb - I have had problems with the Hair, skin, and Nails pills, too. They are just so doggone huge. I tried cutting them into smaller pieces, like thirds, but then those got stuck in my throat, and the sharp edges hurt going down. You could try that and see how it goes for you. I am going to order the Avon ones after these are gone. You could also switch to taking plain biotin until you are further along, and then try them again. I hope things start going a little more smoothly for you. Hang in there. > > Jeanne in WI > Age 39 > Open RNY 05/21/2002 > 314/ 255./150-175 > 5' 8 " > djgraves@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 Oh sorry not paying attention again thought it was lol Re: Questions > > Deb - I have had problems with the Hair, skin, and Nails pills, too. They are just so doggone huge. I tried cutting them into smaller pieces, like thirds, but then those got stuck in my throat, and the sharp edges hurt going down. You could try that and see how it goes for you. I am going to order the Avon ones after these are gone. You could also switch to taking plain biotin until you are further along, and then try them again. I hope things start going a little more smoothly for you. Hang in there. > > Jeanne in WI > Age 39 > Open RNY 05/21/2002 > 314/ 255./150-175 > 5' 8 " > djgraves@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 Sherry, At Walgreens drug store. I'm sure any drug store will have them. Vicki S. Re: Questions Vicki Where did you find the pill crusher? Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 yeah another episode of not paying attention lol. I think maybe I shouldnt email anyone. But then hey how else would you get a good laugh at a dunderhead? lol Vicki S. Re: Questions > > Deb - I have had problems with the Hair, skin, and Nails pills, too. They are just so doggone huge. I tried cutting them into smaller pieces, like thirds, but then those got stuck in my throat, and the sharp edges hurt going down. You could try that and see how it goes for you. I am going to order the Avon ones after these are gone. You could also switch to taking plain biotin until you are further along, and then try them again. I hope things start going a little more smoothly for you. Hang in there. > > Jeanne in WI > Age 39 > Open RNY 05/21/2002 > 314/ 255./150-175 > 5' 8 " > djgraves@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2002 Report Share Posted September 23, 2002 Well I don't know how mine would be labeled as far as good or not. But it does the job. It's a cheapo one I picked up. But if anyone needs or wants one let me know I will try and find one for you. PLUS I'm sure hospitals must have them. So you would think their pharmacy would have them in stock. Vicki S. Re: Questions > > Vicki > > Where did you find the pill crusher? > > Sherry > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 , I was 287 at 5'6 " BMI 45. It all depends on your BMI and comorbidies. Diane 287/257/160 Open RNY August 8th 2002 ========Original Message======== Subj: questions Date: 9/25/2002 7:36:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: <A HREF= " mailto:ncblues_2000@... " >ncblues_2000@...</A> Reply-to: <A HREF= " mailto:GastricBypass-InfoCentral " >GastricBypass-InfoCentra\ l </A> To: <A HREF= " mailto:GastricBypass-InfoCentral " >GastricBypass-InfoCentra\ l </A> Sent from the Internet (Details) I weigh about 270 lbs. right now, I think. I am seeing my dr. next friday to ask about gastric bypass. Is there anyone in the group that weighed this much when they had surgery? I always here about more dramatic cases and wondered whether or not they would view this surgery as neccessary for me. I don't even know what my doctor is going to say. Please pass along any experiences you've had. Thank you, Stacie To Subscribe to 's weekly FREE Newsletter send an email to GBCookbook-subscribe@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 Most of the time with 100 pounds overweight you can be accepted but it also sometimes comes down to comorbitities questions > I weigh about 270 lbs. right now, I think. I am seeing my dr. next > friday to ask about gastric bypass. Is there anyone in the group > that weighed this much when they had surgery? I always here about > more dramatic cases and wondered whether or not they would view this > surgery as neccessary for me. I don't even know what my doctor is > going to say. Please pass along any experiences you've had. > > Thank you, > Stacie > > > > To Subscribe to 's weekly FREE Newsletter send an email to GBCookbook-subscribe@... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 I'm 5'5 " and weighed 242 when I had open rny last year. > I weigh about 270 lbs. right now, I think. I am seeing my dr. next > friday to ask about gastric bypass. Is there anyone in the group > that weighed this much when they had surgery? I always here about > more dramatic cases and wondered whether or not they would view this > surgery as neccessary for me. I don't even know what my doctor is > going to say. Please pass along any experiences you've had. > > Thank you, > Stacie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 HI STACIE - I WEIGHED 263 ON 5-17-01 THE DAY OF MY SURGERY - I AM 5'7 MY ONLY CO MORB WAS ASTHMA - MY DOC WAS VERY SUPPORTIVE IN MY DESIRE FOR SURGERY I HAD HER AS MY PCP SINCE I WAS 19 I AM NOW 32 - SHE SAW ME GAIN WEIGHT OVER THE YEARS AND AGREED IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO DO IT AT THIS SIZE THAN TO LET MYSELF PACK ON SOME MORE- I NOW WEIGH 123 LBS ( A LITTLE LOW IVE BEEN SICK WITH LYME DISEASE ) I WILL TRY TO STAY AT AROUND 130-135/ I WORK OUT NOW (CARDIO AND WEIGHT TRAINING) AND I LOOK AND FEEL GREAT (WHEN LYME SYMPTOMS ARENT KICKING IN)=ALSO A HUGE PLUS FOR ME IS THE STRECHED OUT SKIN ON MY BOD IS MNIMAL -EVEN THOUGH I AM LITERALLY HALF THE WOMAN I USED TO BE - I WORE SIZE 3 LOW RISE HIP HUGGER JEANS YESTERDAY WITH A BABY TEE.WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM THE WONDERBRA I HAVE A REAL HOT BODY -AND EVEN WHEN I WEAR SHORTS AND A TANK PEOPLE CAN NEVER TELL THAT I WAS EVER FAT UNLESS I PULL ON MY SKIN TO STRETCH IT .AND THE SKIN JUST KINDA STAYS THERE - MY BELLY AREA IS WRINKLES BUT LOOKS REALLY FLAT IN MY JEANS.I HELD ONTO MY CHEST FOE QUITE A WHILE - I WAS ALWAYS BUSTY BUT MY 44DD BRA IS NOW A PADDED PUSHUP 34B-I HOPE I HELPED A BIT AND YOU HAVE A MAJOR HEADS UP HERE GETTING SUPPORT ETC BEFORE YOU EVEN MAKE A DECISION IS IMPORTANT. I HAD MY SURGERY AT NEW ENGLAND MED CTR IN BOSTON AT THE OBESITY CONSULT CENTER. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE BEST PROGRAMS BUT I HAVE LEARNED MORE IN ONE MONTH REDING THESE POSTS FROM THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN THERE,DONE THAT . THAN THE OFFICE KNOWS AND THEY SUPPOSEDLY HAVE GREAT AFTER CARE ( THEY DO INSIST UPON LABS EVERY 6 MO AND POST OP CKUPS ) BUT JUST RECENTLY HAVE THE STOPPED PUSHING TUMS FOR CALCIUM AND NOW RECCOMMEND THE BETTER ABSORBED CALCIUM CITRATE.THEY STIL SAY SF CARNATION INSTANT BREAKFAST AND PROTEIN FROM FOOD. SO NOW WHEN I SEE THE NUTRITIONIST THERE I GIVE HER INFO I LEARN HERE . ODD ? BUT NECCESSARY! GOOD LUCK AND I WISH YOU THE BEST CHERYL IN NH, LAP RNY 5-17-01 263/123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 , I weigh around 235, and meet the NIH standards (over 40 bmi and over 100 lbs overweight) - asssuming you're of average height, your weight should certainly meet the NIH standards. Pam in Niceville Date: 2002/09/25 Wed AM 07:25:50 EDT To: GastricBypass-InfoCentral Subject: questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 Dear Stacie, I weighed 351 pounds three weeks ago and now I weigh 328. I feel incredibly better having lost only 23 pounds! Imagine how good I'll feel at 50 pounds gone or 75 pounds gone...? You're a lot smaller than I was at 270 but I'm guessing that puts you at least 100 pounds over your " ideal " weight. Many insurance companies use that 100 pounds as one of their WLS approval criteria. Talk to your doctor and tell him/her what you're thinking about and get his/her opinion. If they don't condone WLS, find another doctor who does. I'm taking this one step at a time, one day at a time but I feel confident that I will now many more days to do so, you know what I mean...? Good luck to you and God bless you richly as you begin this journey. Love! Trace Open RNY -- 9/5/02 Dr. Schechner, Norfolk and Va. Beach, VA Starting weight -- 351.2 Current weight -- 328 Minus -- 23 pounds gone! Gal. 2:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 I started at 380 when I saw the surgeon the first time and weighed 311 when I had surgery. I drank lots of protein before surgery and flew threw great. in Sacramento Lap RNY 9-16 Dr. Pamela , Burlingame, CA Starting weight 380 Pre-op weight 311 Current weight 298 oakridgeranch@... writes: > I was 318 Lbs > questions > > > > > > I weigh about 270 lbs. right now, I think. I am seeing my dr. next > > friday to ask about gastric bypass. Is there anyone in the group > > that weighed this much when they had surgery? I always here about > > more dramatic cases and wondered whether or not they would view this > > surgery as neccessary for me. I don't even know what my doctor is > > going to say. Please pass along any experiences you've had. > > > > Thank you, > > Stacie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 kandykiss@... writes: > > " I just got approved and am on a waiting list for surgery. The doctor want > to > know everything I knew about the surgery and what I expected. I was nervous > about seeing the surgeon because, he had the last say if I got it or not. > But after telling him all I read about the surgery the con's as well as the > pro's. I told him what I hoped it would do for me. I was so happy when he > said I was going on the list. I expect to have the procedure done in > November. Unless there is a cancellation. Then I might go sooner. By the > way > my starting weight is 351 1/2. I have to lose 30 lbs to get the operation I > have lost 17 1/2. Good Luck . > Amy > P.S. I also have arthritis " > > Amy, congratulations on getting your approval for the surgery. I had to > lose 38 pounds before I could get scheduled for surgery. I knew this > before I even saw the surgeon so had lost that amount. Are you drinking > protein shakes? I started drinking protein shakes 5 months before my > surgery, 4-8 ounces protein shakes for about 3 months then 5-8 ounce shakes > the 2 weeks before surgery. I lost 70 pounds by the time I had my surgery > last Monday, the 16th. I felt so good before surgery and my surgeon said > it was because of all the protein loading that I was in great shape when > she operated. I have arthritis, a cervical herniated disk, sleep apnea and > fibromyalgia. My starting weight was 380 and I'm 5'1 " Be sure to get your > shakes and vitamins lined up before surgery, vitalady.com sells all the > stuff we need if you haven't checked her out yet. Good luck and my prayers > are with you as you wait for your date. > > Hugs, in Sacramento Dr. in Burlingame Lap RNY 9-16 Starting weight 380 Pre-op weight 311 Current weight 298 Goal 130 RM2003VR158 @ aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Welcome Amy. So nice to have you with us. Sounds like you did well with the surgical consult. Hope your surgery comes up quickly for you. Take care. Jeanne in WI Age 39 Open RNY 05/21/2002 314/ 252/150-175 5' 8 " djgraves@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 Some surgeons require this, to prove you can stick to a diet, I think. I didn't have to do this. Jeanne in WI Age 39 Open RNY 05/21/2002 314/ 252/150-175 5' 8 " djgraves@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hmm this may be silly, but I think I am forgetting something. I have my appt tomorrow with an RE and I have my list of questions, but am wondering if I am forgetting something? My questions are fairly basic, mostly how many have you done, what do you recommend, blood loss, stuff like that, anything else I should be asking???? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Beth: I have been on depo-provera for almost 2 years. It took 6 months for my bleeding to completely stop. questions > I have been having irregular periods and apparently have a uterine > fibroid. In between the irregular periods I was spotting just about > every day. The doctor put me on Provera for 10 days a month. It worked > like it was suppose to for the 1st 2 months. I did spot some in > between, no spotting or bleeding while on the provera and a heavy > period after the Provera. This month I spotted for a few days before > starting the Provera and the flow has gotten heavier even on the > Provera. Can this be " normal " ? I thought the Provera would slow or > stop the bleeding, like the 1st 2 months. Is this because of the > fibroid? > > Beth > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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