Re: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

[Guest guest]

This really makes me sad. What

company in their right mind will commit to anything relating to gluten if they

will get sued if they make a mistake? What restaurant manager will be

cooperative if he knows he’ll be ruined if there’s a problem?

Eating out is risky – we all know

that. This diet is hard enough for us in our own homes – what

possible right do we have to expect the rest of the world to take

responsibility for our health? It is up to the individual to decide what

risk level they can tolerate and then live with that decision.

Mc’s is a pleasant convenience,

not a God-given right. It really upsets me that the complainers and

blamers out there make it difficult for the rest of us. I worry about the

repercussions of a suit like this.

Becky

From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of M.

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006

11:36 PM

To: SillyYaks

Subject: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

WEST

PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The parents of a 5-year-old girl sued Mc's Corp.,

claiming its french fries contained a wheat protein that caused their daughter

to become seriously ill.

Mark and Theresa Chimiak of Jupiter said in the lawsuit filed Friday in

Palm Beach Circuit Court that their daughter lise had an intolerance to

gluten.

continues at http://www.local6.com/news/7199639/detail.html

[Guest guest]

I guess we need to ask ourselves if eating out should be risky, the simple act of eating away from your home.... should that be risking our health and/or in some cases our lives? (my daughter has a life threatening peanut allergy and she reacts to airborne peanut oil as well).

If a company the size of Kraft can manage to label all of their thousands of products with the allergens why can't Mcs? Why does everyone seem to accept the food industry can do this but the restaurant industry can't? I have a friend that owns a very nice bistro and he says, he doesn't want to do this (extra work) but that it wouldn't be that difficult to make a list of ingredients in each dish he serves (and they change all the time) not much different then making up a menu.

Now there is risk and there is risk and I do think we all understand the risk of cross contamination exists, in restaurants and sometimes even with companies like Kraft (which of course is why they now label for "made in the same facility as") . But keep in mind this whole issue with Mcs would not have happened at all if they didn't tell us the fries were GF when they were not. (I understand the jury is still out on that but from where I sit they contain gluten now until they test the oil).

I don't advocate suing in most cases.... I think as a nation we are sue happy, for example the woman who sued Mcs because their coffee was hot. But when a company says their food does not contain an ingredient when it does is clearly health effecting. Had they done this with peanuts and my daughter, she could have died, right there on the spot. Do I think this family should sue? I can say that I won't but I guess each family must do what is right for them and I can't pretend to be in their shoes.

Jus like many of you I worry about how this will effect the disclosure laws, restaurants at this point don't have to tell us what's in their food (how weird is that!) and I do agree that lawsuits won't help us much. But I still feel Mcs didn't handle this correctly... they have waited far too long to clear up this issue and in my opinion are sort of blaming it on the other people (oil company ).

(boy does that parallel another national newsworthy current event that just happened, its political so I'll keep that hot potato to myself)

Happy Sunday,

[Guest guest]

Just a few opinions...

The vegan suing missed the boat by a few years!

The suit by the parents seems to be missing a few elements of common sense. First of all, how many fries did she eat that the symptoms progressed to seizures?!?!? Secondly, it was over a time span of a few years. If they knew she had celiac, why weren't her levels being checked on a regular basis? Or why did she continue to eat them if she was having reactions. Most of us have had funny feelings after eating something that is supposed to be GF and made a choice not to eat it again.

I know we all made some comments in the heyday of the discussion a few weeks back. I'm guilty of making comments too, but they were just comments - a way to blow off steam. I'm sure there is more to the cases than reported, but in my limited understanding of celiac, yes the french fries may have caused a reaction but did they really cause all the problems?!?!?

Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The parents of a 5-year-old girl sued Mc's Corp., claiming its french fries contained a wheat protein that caused their daughter to become seriously ill.

Mark and Theresa Chimiak of Jupiter said in the lawsuit filed Friday in Palm Beach Circuit Court that their daughter lise had an intolerance to gluten.

continues at http://www.local6.com/news/7199639/detail.html

[Guest guest]

I guess we need to ask ourselves if eating out should be risky, the simple act of eating away from your home.... should that be risking our health and/or in some cases our lives?  (my daughter has a life threatening peanut allergy and she reacts to airborne peanut oil as well).  If a company the size of Kraft can manage to label all of their thousands of products with the allergens why can't Mcs?   Why does everyone seem to accept the food industry can do this but the restaurant industry can't?  I have a friend that owns a very nice bistro and he says, he doesn't want to do this (extra work) but that it wouldn't be that difficult to make a list of ingredients in each dish he serves (and they change all the time) not much different then making up a menu.=============There are two issues that need to be addressed here.  The first being that we don't need to eat out.  Eating out is not a right, it is a product offering on the free market.  You cannot force restaurants to conform to your needs.  I am a celiac and am allergic to dairy and probably soy. It is almost impossible for me to eat out without getting sick.  Sure, I miss the convenience of being able to eat in most restaurants but I have taken responsibility for my own health and as such I only eat in places where I am safe.Secondly, by comparing Kraft to Mc's you are showing that you do not understand the processes involved in making food in an industrial plant vs making food in a restaurant.  They are two completely different processes that cannot for one moment be compared to each other.It is relatively easy to control for cross contamination within a food manufacturing plant as generally the number of people involved in the process is fairly limited and the process is generally automated plus contained.  Think huge machines doing the work within very clean environments.Have a look at this video that shows how Hershey's is made http://www.hersheys.com/discover/tour_video.asp.  Note the machinery and how few people are involved in the process. Also note how the lines tend to be dedicated to manufacturing one thing.or this one, the Golden Cheese Company in California http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/gccc/plantinf.htmOr Royal cake http://www.royalcake.com/planttou.htmThink about food for a moment.  A manufacturer will tend to make a subset of foods i.e. chocolate, cereal, bread, jams etc..  They don't tend to make all those things in one factory so it makes it much easier to control for cross contamination simply because there are limited raw materials in the facility.Now think about a restaurant kitchen.  First and foremost think about the educational standards and pay scale of the employees.  there are way too many minimum wage earners in a restaurant  and these people do not have a vested interest in the restaurant or their customer's well being (in general that is true, there may be exceptions).There can be hundreds of raw ingredients being used and many, many different products being made piecemeal from those ingredients.just think how difficult it is to control for cross contamination in your own kitchen.I truly suggest that you educate yourself about food preparation that takes place out of the home.   Ask a few restaurants in your neighborhood if you can do a tour of their kitchen and ask the chef to explain the process to you.  It is important to understand how many people are involved in the process when you order food in a restaurant and how the order is conveyed to the chefs.  When you have special dietary requirements like we do we cause a rift in the entire process. now the waiter has to speak to the chef instead of just placing a written order on a peg.  then a specific chef has to take responsibility for that particular plate of food. Generally in a restaurant (a more upscale one at least), a myriad of chefs work on a single plate of food, one will be making the protein, another the veggies etc.When you have a request like we do we mess up the entire system in the kitchen and instead of being confrontational and demanding, we should be grateful for getting a safe meal and very aware of all the extra effort the restaurant has to go to on our behalf.Shez

[Guest guest]

Just for your information I certainly do understand the difference between a restaurant and an industrial plant and I addressed the cross contamination issue, yes its certainly different and I agree with you on this.

However, the issue with Mcs isn't one of cross contamination. I was addressing ingredients... and I feel we have a right to know what we are eating.

I agree going out is a risk, I said all this in my first post, however if I ask if there are peanuts in my food, they shouldn't say NO when the answer is YES. If they say, "hey lady we have peanuts in lots of other dishes, so they are in the kitchen, then I understand the risk.

Again the Mcs issue isn't one of cross contamination, its one of disclosure. So lets not confuse it.

I really don't want to argue, I do love discussions that make me think. I really resent you implying that I am "confrontational and demanding", really I'm just the opposite and where I live we frequent a number of restaurants, mostly individually owned not chains, where they did take me on a tour of their restaurant and sat down and talked to me about our dietary issues and they are happy to see us come in every week or so. I was nice, friendly, and thanked them over and over for their concern and their time. I also thank them every week or so by eating with them.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Just for your information I certainly do understand the difference between a restaurant and an industrial plant and I addressed the cross contamination issue, yes its certainly different and I agree with you on this.  However, the issue with Mcs isn't one of cross contamination.    I was addressing ingredients... and I feel we have a right to know what we are eating. ==========I apologize if I misunderstood you.  I firmly agree with you that Mc's is at fault for not disclosing everything.   I thought you were addressing something different. I thought you were basically saying that your daughter had a right to eat out and that you didn't  understand the difference between food process in industrial plants and restaurants.Apologies again for misunderstandingShez

[Guest guest]

No problem, have a great Sunday!!!

Apologies again for misunderstanding

Shez

[Guest guest]

I agree, Becky. Most of these types of suits are similar to alien abductions - only the seriously deranged and poverty stricken would attempt them and they usually have nothing to do with actually addressing a moral issue or a problem and everything to do with getting rich quick.

At any rate, it seems to me that Mc's could garner a quick dismissal if they just test the fries (as some of the other members of this group have pointed out and as the article mentions). If the test comes back negative, the FL couple won't have a leg to stand on in court and the rest of us can go back to happily munching our fries. Who knows, maybe this could be good for us?

On the vegan note (mentioned in the article), I don't ever remember reading that Mc's claimed their fries were vegan. I figured they would have addressed it after the 2002 suit, but I don't remember reading anything about the fries actually being labeled as vegan.

--E RE: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

This really makes me sad. What company in their right mind will commit to anything relating to gluten if they will get sued if they make a mistake? What restaurant manager will be cooperative if he knows he’ll be ruined if there’s a problem?

Eating out is risky – we all know that. This diet is hard enough for us in our own homes – what possible right do we have to expect the rest of the world to take responsibility for our health? It is up to the individual to decide what risk level they can tolerate and then live with that decision.

Mc’s is a pleasant convenience, not a God-given right. It really upsets me that the complainers and blamers out there make it difficult for the rest of us. I worry about the repercussions of a suit like this.

Becky

From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of M.Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:36 PMTo: SillyYaks Subject: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The parents of a 5-year-old girl sued Mc's Corp., claiming its french fries contained a wheat protein that caused their daughter to become seriously ill.

Mark and Theresa Chimiak of Jupiter said in the lawsuit filed Friday in Palm Beach Circuit Court that their daughter lise had an intolerance to gluten.

continues at http://www.local6.com/news/7199639/detail.html

[Guest guest]

Yes, , I think this could be good for us. It's already got you replying to a Mcs post again. LOL Enjoy the rest of your weekend everyone! in Michigan Slinkman wrote: I agree, Becky. Most of these types of suits are similar to alien abductions - only the seriously deranged and poverty stricken would attempt them and they usually have nothing to do with actually addressing a moral issue or a problem and everything to do with getting rich quick. At any rate, it

seems to me that Mc's could garner a quick dismissal if they just test the fries (as some of the other members of this group have pointed out and as the article mentions). If the test comes back negative, the FL couple won't have a leg to stand on in court and the rest of us can go back to happily munching our fries. Who knows, maybe this could be good for us? On the vegan note (mentioned in the article), I don't ever remember reading that Mc's claimed their fries were vegan. I figured they would have addressed it after the 2002 suit, but I don't remember reading anything about the fries actually being labeled as vegan. --E RE: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter

Ill This really makes me sad. What company in their right mind will commit to anything relating to gluten if they will get sued if they make a mistake? What restaurant manager will be cooperative if he knows he’ll be ruined if there’s a problem? Eating out is risky – we all know that. This diet is hard enough for us in our own homes – what possible right do we have to expect the rest of the world to take responsibility for our health? It is up to the individual to decide what risk level they can tolerate and then live with that decision. Mc’s is a pleasant convenience, not a God-given right. It really upsets me that the complainers and blamers out there make it difficult for the rest of us. I worry about the repercussions

of a suit like this. Becky From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of M.Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:36 PMTo: SillyYaks Subject: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The parents of a 5-year-old girl sued Mc's Corp., claiming its french fries contained a wheat protein that caused their daughter to become seriously ill. Mark and Theresa Chimiak of Jupiter said in the lawsuit filed Friday in Palm Beach Circuit Court that their daughter lise had an intolerance to gluten. continues

at http://www.local6.com/news/7199639/detail.html

Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, more on new and used cars.

[Guest guest]

@*# & @*# & .. I told myself I wouldn't take the McBait anymore.. Ok, I won't reply to a Mc's post starting...now!

--E Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The parents of a 5-year-old girl sued Mc's Corp., claiming its french fries contained a wheat protein that caused their daughter to become seriously ill.

Mark and Theresa Chimiak of Jupiter said in the lawsuit filed Friday in Palm Beach Circuit Court that their daughter lise had an intolerance to gluten.

continues at http://www.local6.com/news/7199639/detail.html

Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.

[Guest guest]

Aaaaahhhhhh welcome back to the dark side, . Muahahhahahaaaahhaa <----- evil laugh in Michigan Slinkman wrote: @*# & @*# & .. I told myself I wouldn't take the McBait anymore.. Ok, I won't reply to a Mc's post starting...now! --E RE:

Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill This really makes me sad. What company in their right mind will commit to anything relating to gluten if they will get sued if they make a mistake? What restaurant manager will be cooperative if he knows heâll be ruined if thereâs a problem? Eating out is risky â we all know that. This diet is hard enough for us in our own homes â what possible right do we have to expect the rest of the world to take responsibility for our health? It is up to the individual to decide what risk level they can tolerate and then live with that decision. Mcâs is a pleasant convenience, not a God-given right. It really upsets me that the complainers and blamers out there make it difficult for the rest of us. I worry about the

repercussions of a suit like this. Becky From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of M.Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:36 PMTo: SillyYaks Subject: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- The parents of a 5-year-old girl sued Mc's Corp., claiming its french fries contained a wheat protein that caused their daughter to become seriously ill. Mark and Theresa Chimiak of Jupiter said in the lawsuit filed Friday in Palm Beach Circuit Court that their daughter lise had an intolerance to gluten. continues at http://www.local6.com/news/7199639/detail.html Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.

[Guest guest]

> However, the issue with Mcs isn't one of cross contamination.

I was addressing ingredients... and I feel we have a right to know

what we are eating.

> Best,

>

But the laws of the nation don't grant you that right. Restaurants are

not obligated to disclose what they put in their food. If you want

that right, push for it in Congress, because right now we are at the

mercy of the cook inside the kitchen/the mega-food corporation/ the

line server wielding the serving spoon or whoever had access to your

meal before you eat it - and they don't have to tell you anything if

they don't want to.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

But when they DO " tell " you, they should be held accountable for what

they say.

C

[Guest guest]

You have the right to get true and

accurate information if:

The

food provider publishes the info voluntarily- then it must be accurate;

You

ask and they give you definitive information.

They have the right to say, we don’t

know, so don’t rely on us, and then they are in the clear.

From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of marcianar

Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006

2:16 PM

To: SillyYaks

Subject: Re: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

> However, the issue with Mcs isn't one

of cross contamination.

I was addressing ingredients... and I

feel we have a right to know

what we are eating.

> Best,

>

But the laws of the nation don't grant you that

right. Restaurants are

not obligated to disclose what they put in their

food. If you want

that right, push for it in Congress, because right

now we are at the

mercy of the cook inside the kitchen/the mega-food

corporation/ the

line server wielding the serving spoon or whoever

had access to your

meal before you eat it - and they don't have to

tell you anything if

they don't want to.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

Can you tell me where you got these statements? Federal law, state

law, what type of statute?

And if they tell you something you find ambiguous, such " natural

flavoring, " which is legally acceptable as an ingredient description,

what would you do? And if they you something such as " Gluten-free "

which has (as yet) no legal meaning in the U.S. how do you hold them

accountable?

In the EU, " gluten-free " has legal meaning, clearly defined in parts

per million. But I don't see where the legal system would go after

Mcs for a violating a standard that doesn't exist here. If you

read the testimony before the committees working on the federal

standards, many celiacs are going to quite surprised at how much

gluten may be allowed under the proposed rules.

Maureen

>

> > However, the issue with Mcs isn't one of cross contamination.

> I was addressing ingredients... and I feel we have a right to know

> what we are eating.

>

> > Best,

> >

>

> But the laws of the nation don't grant you that right. Restaurants are

> not obligated to disclose what they put in their food. If you want

> that right, push for it in Congress, because right now we are at the

> mercy of the cook inside the kitchen/the mega-food corporation/ the

> line server wielding the serving spoon or whoever had access to your

> meal before you eat it - and they don't have to tell you anything if

> they don't want to.

>

>

> Maureen

>

>

[Guest guest]

It falls under general principles of

fraud, and in some states, a separate action for consumer fraud. For example,

in most states, you have no obligation to label a food as kosher, but its

illegal to label non-kosher foods as kosher. Ambiguous or absent information

helps a seller avoid liability. Outright false statements do not. We have an

odd patchwork of laws, because both states and the feds enter this area.

Consider what the FTC does to sellers of food supplements who overstate their

results. Clear false statements are not protected. Omissions are only a problem

if there is an obligation to disclose, as there apparently wasn’t before

the first of the year.

In case you were wondering, I am a lawyer,

and this is how I would evaluate the statements if presented to me by a client.

The real issue for me, with respect to the Mc’s case, is what was

the damage and how do you confirm McD was the source. I think its clear that

the statements were false, the question is, was there actual harm caused by

eating it, and how do you tie it all together. How do you put a dollar amount

on it? Also, there is apparently, some dispute as to whether there can be portions

of the wheat plant that can be separated from gluten, i.e. the assertions that

wheat-based vodka is gf. Under this theory, McD may have an “expert”

assert that gf still exists, despite the wheat flavoring.

McD only got into trouble because of the

new labeling law, which required the disclosure of wheat. It was not a required

labeled item previously, because it was below the threshold. They had to

withdraw the gf designation for the fries because of the inherent conflict of

having wheat on the ingredient list.

From: SillyYaks [mailto:SillyYaks ] On Behalf Of marcianar

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006

1:37 PM

To: SillyYaks

Subject: Re: Fla. Parents Sue Mc's, Claiming Fries Made Daughter Ill

Can you tell me where you got

these statements? Federal law, state

law, what type of statute?

And if they tell you something you find ambiguous,

such " natural

flavoring, " which is legally acceptable as an

ingredient description,

what would you do? And if they you something such

as " Gluten-free "

which has (as yet) no legal meaning in the U.S. how do you

hold them

accountable?

In the EU, " gluten-free " has legal

meaning, clearly defined in parts

per million. But I don't see where the legal

system would go after

Mcs for a violating a standard that doesn't

exist here. If you

read the testimony before the committees working

on the federal

standards, many celiacs are going to quite

surprised at how much

gluten may be allowed under the proposed rules.

Maureen

>

> > However, the issue with Mcs isn't

one of cross contamination.

> I was addressing

ingredients... and I feel we have a right to know

> what we are eating.

>

> > Best,

> >

>

> But the laws of the nation don't grant you

that right. Restaurants are

> not obligated to disclose what they put in

their food. If you want

> that right, push for it in Congress, because

right now we are at the

> mercy of the cook inside the kitchen/the mega-food

corporation/ the

> line server wielding the serving spoon or

whoever had access to your

> meal before you eat it - and they don't have

to tell you anything if

> they don't want to.

>

>

> Maureen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Which is why the new " standards " may prove as useless as the ones in the EU.

And it will be a voluntary labeling, so many truly gf products won't be

labeled, while others are that will have quite high levels of gluten. It

definitely looks as though fairly high levels will be accepted as the

testing standard -- nothing nearly as low as used in Canada and Australia,

let alone as low as current testing can detect (tests can now be done at

3PPM and at 5PPM for ALL gluten proteins, not just wheat gliadin -- the

" gliadin " testing done doesn't even detect glutenin, the other half of the

gluten in wheat).

> -----Original Message-----

>

> In the EU, " gluten-free " has legal meaning, clearly defined in parts

> per million. But I don't see where the legal system would go after

> Mcs for a violating a standard that doesn't exist here. If you

> read the testimony before the committees working on the federal

> standards, many celiacs are going to quite surprised at how much

> gluten may be allowed under the proposed rules.

---

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