Re: Nutritional fasting

[Guest guest]

Hi Tori, I wouldn't recommend it. My docs at Bastyr said to eat, eat, eat. 3

meals and 3 snacks. And to make sure each meal and snack included protein,

so for you that would be eggs, nut butters, hummus, nuts, lentils and beans.

You could look for a good protein powder to make smoothies with. I know that

this helped me, it's when I don't eat that I feel bad. Or if I eat something

that is not good for me.

But then Pam L. said at one point all she could eat was potatoes. So you

might have to find a food or a couple of foods that you can eat that don't

make you feel bad.

The sugar in fruits might be making you feel bad too. ithyroid.com suggests

avoiding fruits at first.

I really don't know much about fasting, I've never had the urge to fast, but

I would think it would be a very bad thing, since your metabolism is on high

speed right now, I know I couldn't handle it.

I hope you feel better soon!

:)Pam B.

Nutritional fasting

The more I eat, the worse I feel and I eat all the time! I feel the need to

fast--not a complete fast, but one that allows for drinking plenty of

fruit/veggie juices. Does anyone know if this is ok for hypers to do or is

it a really bad idea?

Take care,

Tori

[Guest guest]

I'm really interested in this too. I am not recommending it by any means as

I just don't know what the implications are for hypers, not fully though I

have some thoughts about it below. I often feel that if I could just stop

eating for a couple of weeks, but do it in a safe way then it would give my

system the chance to heal itself, not be distracted by all the digesting and

get back to some sort of " start " place... also to heal my gut which is

bothering me alot at the moment - the treatment for some gut problems like

diverticulosis IS to fast while the thing heals.

The following comments about fasting and low carb diets and GD are the

distracted thoughts of a total layperson who has no authority on the topic,

but is thinking out loud to the group! Just thought I 'd make that clear.

I know that cutting out carbohydrates entirely, actually brings us back

towards hypo as the metabolism slows down in response to " famine " and

directly LOWERS the thyroid hormone levels... this is a medical fact and

Elaine's book has it in it; apparently it only takes a few days for this to

happen.

I have often wondered why fasting or going on a ketogenic diet is not

thought to be a good idea for people who are in thyroid storm or

thyrotoxicosis as it would have the effect of lowering thyroid hormones.

I've asked a few doctors, but the response is always the same - eat a

balanced diet, which is good advice obviously, but doesn't answer the

question.

There have been many anecdotal reports of people going hyper or getting

Graves triggered following weight loss due to dieting. It is always hard to

negotiate this information as weight loss is one of the classic symptoms of

hyperT and it might be GD and not dieting that accounts for weight loss...

BUT - my theory is that in people with a predisposition towards Graves',

there might be a danger period when we come off low carbohydrate diets like

Aitkins. In some diet books and through some dieting organisations, when

the dieter reaches a plateau weight where they cannot drop any more

pounds... they recommend coming off the diet and eating more carbs again for

a weekend. This tells the body that famine is over and " feast " is here -

thus the thyroid hormones rise triggering a rise in metabolism and so

budgine the dieter off their plateau.

The anecdotal stuff about weight loss itself being a trigger makes me think

this kind of bounce back thing might be a trigger for hyperT predisposed

people; that somehow we set off the autoimmne response by playing with the

whole circuit ... I can't see how though, as GD is auto-immune in nature.

Just thinking but yes I too would be interested in any information abou

fasting and hyperT.

Dawn Rose

>From: L@...

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: graves_support

>Subject: Nutritional fasting

>Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 10:52:01 -0400

>

>The more I eat, the worse I feel and I eat all the time! I feel the need

>to fast--not a complete fast, but one that allows for drinking plenty of

>fruit/veggie juices. Does anyone know if this is ok for hypers to do or is

>it a really bad idea?

>

>Take care,

>Tori

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can't stress enough that this is a discussion topic and NOT a suggestion

to fast or go on very low carb diets - I think that might actually be

dangerous.

.... I just thought this through... perhaps fasting/low carb dieting DOESN'T

actually lower thyroid hormones in people with active Graves' Disease, as it

is the antibodies that are causing the overactivitiy in the first place and

their activitiy would not necessarily be affected by diet.

The whole topic has made me think that maybe the need to eat when we are

hyper might be part of the problem that keeps making us more hyper...

wouldn't all that eating be raising our metabolisms even more?

Of course that would all have to be balanced by the fact that if you don't

eat, you can't stay alive long if your body is burning up everything it has

because you are hyper. Catch 22.

As an aside...when I was hyper, and for a year before diagnosis, I was

atypical and had absolutely no appetite when it was supposed to be raging.

I looked on all food with the same enthusiasm as I would now have at the

idea of eating cardboard, bloated as soon as I ate and was full on half a

sandwhich. This continued until I was well onto antithyroid drugs and

coming into the normal ranges in my blood test results when my appetite

returned in full force!

Just chatting, must sleep now 'tis the wee hours in Oz

DAWN ROSE

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Good Morning Tori,

Pam B is absolutly correct. Right now your body is going so fast it is

starving itself. It is very important to feed it OFTEN.

That is why you had that feeling in the waiting room like you were going to

pass out. Everything you had eaten earlier was already completely gone .

Then when this happens the body must find something to use, and it then

looks for anything to use. I think this might be why I lost so much muscle.

Many small meals should keep you going without causeing a problem. Be sure

to include protien.

-Pam-

[Guest guest]

Pam L said:

" Then when this happens the body must find something to use, and it then

looks for anything to use. I think this might be why I lost so much muscle. "

Yes, that is what happened to me too, I lost almost all my muscle tone, I

was so weak I could hardly pick my son up at one point - I had never been

that weak or skinny in my life. At one point in my stupid youth, I had even

entertained the idea of becoming a body builder (I was dating one) and built

up some muscle tone that I regretted later and feared I would have to live

with all my life, but no, now it is gone, thanks to graves eating my body.

Hey, the silver lining! Anyway, this is why it's so important to eat protein

right now, if you don't get enough, you will be sacrificing muscle tone

instead. And what is left of you will be very soft and flabby.

Vitamin supplements on ithyroid.com really helped me there, here is the

suggestion on supplements at ithyroid gave me at the time (I would

recommend doing your research before starting some of the supplements,

especially the silver):

----------

Hi Pam,

At the beginning you'll need 8-10 mgs of copper. It's best to avoid zinc and

iron for awhile. If B complex causes an increase in heart rate, then you'll

have to go to separate B vitamins so you can avoid the B6. So take B1, B2,

B3 (pure niacin), B5, biotin, and PABA. You probably won't need the folic

acid or B12 now either. You can try choline/inositol to see if it helps with

your physical and mental energy.

Take at least as much magnesium as calcium and more if necessary. These

steps should stop you from losing muscle mass and weight.

Take a little MSM and some colloidal silver. The silver can help prevent eye

involvement and helps balance the excess cadmium.

Don't forget a trace mineral supplement and boron (3 mg. per day).

Once your heart rate slows to normal and you start going hypo, then you can

add back the B6, iron, and zinc.

Let us know how things go and if you have problems, let me know.

-----

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Dawn Rose, we really think alike! I feel the need to cleanse and feel better on

days that I'm too busy to eat much of anything--weird, I know!

Pam & Pam, I really don't understand if my metabolism is high. If so, why do I

gain weight when I eat anything? It's horrible to be so hungry and get fatter

with each bite. I say this as I'm eating a huge salad with lots of oil &

vinegar. So, I'm in no danger of starving myself ;-)

In regards to my protein intake, I eat 2-3 eggs a day and I keep jars of nuts &

no sugar added trail mix at my desk. But I don't feel I break down nuts at all.

It's totally contrary to my Southern upbringing to discuss bathroom habits so

I'll try to say this tactfully <blushing>: if I eat nuts, I have to use the

restroom within minutes and can tell that my body has done nothing to break them

down other than chewing. Does it do any good to eat nuts if this is the case?

Same thing with beans. I love lentils, so will make lentil stew when I have

time this weekend. I have a rice protein powder that I keep at my desk as well.

I dread it so. It doesn't dissolve, so it's like trying to drink mud. Yuck!

To clarify, a nutritional fast is kind of a misnomer. It's more of a liquid

diet. You're supposed to drink tons of fruit/veg juice to prevent deficiencies.

I feel like I'm doing nothing other than complaining, so forgive me.

-Tori

[Guest guest]

Tori,

As someone who also gained while hyper, I can say that the horrible appetite

is one of the hyper symptoms I dread the most. But that is what it is, a

hyper symptom. Beating ourselves up for the appetite is counter-productive,

and envying those lucky ones who became beanpoles while hyper is not much

good either (I know, I've tried 'em both). I quite frankly can't imagine

having the will power when I'm hyper to fast, even when I get a little

hungry, almost all my good sense about what to eat goes out the window when

I'm in that state.

I'm going to say this very very gently, just a gentle whisper--but I wonder

if adding a bit of animal protein would help you? If you're not digesting

nuts and beans, I doubt that eggs are giving you all the proteins you need.

And protein is the only thing that satisfies that kind of craving for me.

Probably not what you want to hear, I know!

Good luck to you,

Terry

> From: L@...

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 13:06:39 -0400

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Nutritional fasting

>

> I really don't understand if my metabolism is high. If so, why do I gain

> weight when I eat anything? It's horrible to be so hungry and get fatter with

> each bite.

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry,

My doctor had the same suggestion. He mentions it just about every time I talk

to him. He's thrilled I'm eating eggs, but suggests that fish would be better.

For me, the psychological stress I'm going through right now is worse than the

physical. I don't think I could bear to add the guilt I know I'd feel if I did

something so contrary to my beliefs. I've thought about it a lot. I don't

think it's wrong to eat another creature if it is necessary for your survival.

Is eating fish necessary to my survival? It might be easier for me, but I doubt

I'll die without it.

>I quite frankly can't imagine

>having the will power when I'm hyper to fast, even when I get >a little

>hungry, almost all my good sense about what to eat goes out >the window when

>I'm in that state.

That's exactly why I'm willing to try a juice fast (not starving myself!).

Today, I had eaten only fruits and veggies and was quite satisfied until my

co-workers brought in cookies. Then I ate 3 and didn't even feel that hungry!

I am able to just drink liquids all day if I get in the habbit of it, but I

can't keep allowing myself to eat huge quantities of food and expect to have the

willpower to pass up a cookie. And I thought juices might be more absorbable by

my body. Maybe that's why I felt I had to have the cookies. I've eaten well,

but has my body absorbed the nutrients from my food? I don't feel like it has.

Is this a reasonable idea or am is my brain fog impeding my thought process?

I realize that you're trying to help, so I hope my response doesn't sound too

militant. I can never tell if I'm being rude or offensive to people anymore.

Thanks,

Tori

> I'm going to say this very very gently, just a gentle whisper--but I wonder

> if adding a bit of animal protein would help you? If you're not digesting

> nuts and beans, I doubt that eggs are giving you all the proteins you need.

> And protein is the only thing that satisfies that kind of

> craving for me.

> Probably not what you want to hear, I know!

>

> Good luck to you,

>

> Terry

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I guess it depends on what you mean by " juice " . Fruit juices are simply

sugar, otherwise known as carbohydrates, sometimes referred to in the same

vein as soda, as empty calories. What happens when you blast your system

with a bunch of quick-digesting carbs (and carrot juice is included here,

too), is your body has to deal with all the sugar fast, its insulin

receptors become overwhelmed, and you get an energy peak followed by a huge

energy crash and a tremendous appetite. That's a pretty simple explanation,

but I think accurate. On the other hand if by 'juice' you mean veggie other

than carrot, you might be OK, very short term--depending on how your hyper

condition takes it.

I'm personally a big believer in whole foods. I love fruit, but never drink

fruit juice because I think there is a balance in the whole food, fiber

etc., that is important for health. I think that way about medicine,

too--which is why although I take my methimazole, I also take Chinese herbs

daily. I like the idea of the natural balance of using whole substances. I'm

also a B+ blood type, btw, which means, if you follow that blood type diet,

that my carnivorous tendencies are true to my needs.

I have a lot of friends who have been vegetarians for a long time. Many of

them have recently been advised by their doctors to modify their diet and

include fish, chicken etc, mostly because they were simply not able to

maintain good health on their previous diets. But, I also know people who

won't eat anything that is heated over 118°F., as they believe that all the

enzymes in the food are killed beyond that temp, and that they are healthier

for their " raw " food regimen. Of course I wouldn't dream of offering one of

them steak tartare, either (insert evil grin here).

I guess if I really think about what I want to say to you, is that you're

taking charge of re-finding health for yourself, and if you need to

experiment within the confines of good sense, to find what works for you,

there is nothing wrong with that. Just give the thyroid meds some time to

work before you stress your body too much--stress, after all, is NOT good

for us hypers!

Terry

> From: L@...

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 17:25:51 -0400

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Nutritional fasting

>

>

> That's exactly why I'm willing to try a juice fast (not starving myself!).

> Today, I had eaten only fruits and veggies and was quite satisfied until my

> co-workers brought in cookies. Then I ate 3 and didn't even feel that hungry!

> I am able to just drink liquids all day if I get in the habbit of it, but I

> can't keep allowing myself to eat huge quantities of food and expect to have

> the willpower to pass up a cookie. And I thought juices might be more

> absorbable by my body. Maybe that's why I felt I had to have the cookies.

> I've eaten well, but has my body absorbed the nutrients from my food? I don't

> feel like it has. Is this a reasonable idea or am is my brain fog impeding my

> thought process?

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I actually have done two or three of these fasts over the years, but not

whilst I have been ill. You go into it slowly eating only raw fruit and veg

for a day or two and then drinking juices for about 7 days or so, coming out

of it slowly. You support your system with fibre supplement and lots of

acidophillous. I think it would be really bad for a hyper as there is no

protein. When I was hyper, I too lost almost all my muscle... I was really

skinny, but cos I didn't have any muscle I felt SO heavy and couldn't get

myself up a short flight of stairs easilyl. Much as I desire a more sphelt

like figure, I do not want that utter weak boniness back again - I felt like

my blood and bones were hungry and I couldn't feed them.

Maybe you should think about varying your protein intake a bit - 2-3 eggs

per day would do me in! Do you eat meat? I get quite bloated with egg. I

think two to three eggs is a heafty amount of cholestoral to be intaking

isn't it? You could try not eating the yolk?? Are you eating dairy?

Taking that out of my diet when I was hyper was one of the things I remember

making me feel alot better - it still does now.

I was vegetarian for about 13 years before I just cracked one day whilst

recovering from hyperT - ate a ham sandwhich on a craving and have had meat

often ever since for the last two years.

I did a few of these fruit juice fasts about two years before I became ill.

I have to wonder if such dramatic measures contributed to upsetting the

balance in my gut. I felt great on those fasts and usually wanted to carry

them on longer... but I am not sure they are a good idea really as they

contribute to a wildly yo yoing metabolism and I don't think that is good

for us. This thought has been triggered by the fact that a friend of mine

recently did a detox fast thing and although she felt great for about six

weeks after, she has been feeling ill with wildly irregular periods ever

since.

On your question re weight gain even when your metabolism is high, I believe

the figure is about 10% of hyper patients gain weight. This could be

because of a vastly increased appetite, or some other quirk of the

individual. I think it is important to remember that we are all different

and some don't fit the classic symptom list - I for instance did loose alot

of weight when ill, but had not appetite at all when hyper and remained

constipated throughout the whole experience of severe thyrotoxicosis.

Sorry to make your repeat information, but what is your thyroid status at

the moment?

Just chatting

DAWN ROSE

>From: L@...

>Reply-To: graves_support

>To: graves_support

>Subject: Re: Nutritional fasting

>Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 13:06:39 -0400

>

>Hi All,

>

>Dawn Rose, we really think alike! I feel the need to cleanse and feel

>better on days that I'm too busy to eat much of anything--weird, I know!

>

>Pam & Pam, I really don't understand if my metabolism is high. If so, why

>do I gain weight when I eat anything? It's horrible to be so hungry and

>get fatter with each bite. I say this as I'm eating a huge salad with lots

>of oil & vinegar. So, I'm in no danger of starving myself ;-)

>

>In regards to my protein intake, I eat 2-3 eggs a day and I keep jars of

>nuts & no sugar added trail mix at my desk. But I don't feel I break down

>nuts at all. It's totally contrary to my Southern upbringing to discuss

>bathroom habits so I'll try to say this tactfully <blushing>: if I eat

>nuts, I have to use the restroom within minutes and can tell that my body

>has done nothing to break them down other than chewing. Does it do any

>good to eat nuts if this is the case? Same thing with beans. I love

>lentils, so will make lentil stew when I have time this weekend. I have a

>rice protein powder that I keep at my desk as well. I dread it so. It

>doesn't dissolve, so it's like trying to drink mud. Yuck!

>

>To clarify, a nutritional fast is kind of a misnomer. It's more of a

>liquid diet. You're supposed to drink tons of fruit/veg juice to prevent

>deficiencies.

>

>I feel like I'm doing nothing other than complaining, so forgive me.

>

>-Tori

>

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

>intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

>Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the

>endorsement of

>the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn Rose,

Thank you for telling me about your fasting experience. I have never done such

a fast, but I was in the habbit for a while in college of barely eating

anything, mostly fruits/veggies and juices. It was the best I've ever felt. I

had a tremendous amount of energy, I would be at the gym by 5am and start work

or school immediately afterward and rarely get home before midnight. There's no

way I could do that now.

I got home from work today at around 6:30. I went to bed no later than 6:35 and

slept soundly until just after midnight. I called , who was very worried

and upset I hadn't called sooner. He said he called here 5 times, I didn't hear

the phone ring once. That's pretty typical behavior for me--has been for a few

years now. When I woke up, my tummy felt empty (a rare feeling these days) and

I felt great, though ravenous. As soon as I ate, I felt worse. I don't think

what I eat is bad either--tonight it was a small bowl of zucchini, eggplant,

mushrooms, garlic, onions, & tomato-herb sauce with 1/2 of a large slice of

whole wheat bread & watermelon for dessert. You think it's the wheat? I can

try to give it up for a week and see if I feel any better. When I start

thinking of everything I shouldn't eat anymore, it seems easier to just go on a

liquid diet. When I finally get back to Seattle, my doc at Bastyr wants to put

me on a diet, so I'll wait until then to make any changes.

I digress, you had a few questions for me:

Varying my protein sources--I don't know how. I'm getting frustrated as my

primary protein source up until my diagnosis on May 24 was soy. I had added

dairy back to my diet after a year without it in Sept of last year, so I was

getting protein there as well as from nuts & rice milk. Eliminating soy & dairy

has drastically dropped my protein intake, so I started eating eggs. I'm not

overly concerned about the cholestrol because I do not eat any form of meat

including fish, so eggs are the only cholestrol I get. Doc says to use rice

protein powder. I was really good about it for a few weeks, but tapered off

lately. It doesn't dissolve, so the result is a thick, gritty metamucil-like

juice drink. Gross. And for some reason, my doc specifically said to drink it

in a small amount of juice which makes it a thicker concoction. I did take the

advice of Pam & Jody regarding dairy contributing to migraines, so I eliminated

it as well. My diet looks pretty bleak. No wonder I devour a cookie when I see

it. My hair-brained logic is that if I were on a liquid diet, I wouldn't allow

myself to crave cookies & cakes so much. I need structure or I cave into

temptation. I was doing pretty good on the liver cleansing diet for nearly a

week, so I guess I'll try that again. I'm surrounded by people who bake goodies

for me. They don't seem to understand when I tell them I can't have sugar or

flour, and I cave every time. I just have to get it together and have a little

will power.

Meat-The thought of a ham sandwich nauseates me. Maybe I should picture that

when I see a taboo food.

Current thyroid status--very hyper. I just started PTU & a beta-blocker

Wednesday. My heart rate varies between 95 on rare occasions to nearly 140

(maybe higher, when I'm feeling really bad, I don't have the energy or patience

to measure it). I was trying to treat it with vitamins & tinctures, but at the

urging of several concerned people on this board and my doctor, I started

western medical methods. I feel better, but tired and itchy. Today, it was 90+

degrees here and I didn't feel that I would pass out from heat exhaustion--a big

improvement for me. My doctor ran some tests, but I didn't understand the

results and I was still in shock from the diagnosis. It's vague, but all I

remember him saying is that a level that should be between .5 and 5 was over 20

(he said off the charts), something else that should be between 2 and 3 was 0.

He did say something about T3 and T4. I had more tests run Wednesday, so I'll

know enough to get a copy and post the results so ya'll can help me decipher

them.

I have a question about the weight gain thing: Are we sure my metabolism is

elevated? If so, why do I gain weight? Would a juice fast be okay if I used a

protein powder?

Take care and thanks for letting me unload,

Tori

In a message dated Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:48:09 +0000, getdawnrose@...

writes:

> Tori,

>

> I actually have done two or three of these fasts over the years, but not

> whilst I have been ill. You go into it slowly eating only raw fruit and veg

> for a day or two and then drinking juices for about 7 days or so, coming out

> of it slowly. You support your system with fibre supplement and lots of

> acidophillous. I think it would be really bad for a hyper as there is no

> protein. When I was hyper, I too lost almost all my muscle... I was really

> skinny, but cos I didn't have any muscle I felt SO heavy and couldn't get

> myself up a short flight of stairs easilyl. Much as I desire a more sphelt

> like figure, I do not want that utter weak boniness back again - I felt like

> my blood and bones were hungry and I couldn't feed them.

>

> Maybe you should think about varying your protein intake a bit - 2-3 eggs

> per day would do me in! Do you eat meat? I get quite bloated with egg. I

> think two to three eggs is a heafty amount of cholestoral to be intaking

> isn't it? You could try not eating the yolk?? Are you eating dairy?

> Taking that out of my diet when I was hyper was one of the things I remember

> making me feel alot better - it still does now.

>

> I was vegetarian for about 13 years before I just cracked one day whilst

> recovering from hyperT - ate a ham sandwhich on a craving and have had meat

> often ever since for the last two years.

>

> I did a few of these fruit juice fasts about two years before I became ill.

> I have to wonder if such dramatic measures contributed to upsetting the

> balance in my gut. I felt great on those fasts and usually wanted to carry

> them on longer... but I am not sure they are a good idea really as they

> contribute to a wildly yo yoing metabolism and I don't think that is good

> for us. This thought has been triggered by the fact that a friend of mine

> recently did a detox fast thing and although she felt great for about six

> weeks after, she has been feeling ill with wildly irregular periods ever

> since.

>

> On your question re weight gain even when your metabolism is high, I believe

> the figure is about 10% of hyper patients gain weight. This could be

> because of a vastly increased appetite, or some other quirk of the

> individual. I think it is important to remember that we are all different

> and some don't fit the classic symptom list - I for instance did loose alot

> of weight when ill, but had not appetite at all when hyper and remained

> constipated throughout the whole experience of severe thyrotoxicosis.

>

> Sorry to make your repeat information, but what is your

> thyroid status at

> the moment?

>

> Just chatting

> DAWN ROSE

[Guest guest]

Terry,

I'm confused by everything lately, and I don't understand this either. How can

fruit juice be nothing but sugar? I know it has lots of sugar in it, but it

seems to be that all the vitamins in the fruit would also be in the juice. Is

that overly simplistic?

I've always agreed with you about eating the whole fruit rather than drinking

the juice to get fiber. It's only been recently that I started drinking lots of

fruit juice. Because I don't feel I'm absorbing any nutrients from food, I

thought that drinking juice would help with vitamin absorbtion. I eat tons of

whole fruits & veggies, both cooked and raw, but I still crave sugar. Weird,

huh? I think juice is better than ice cream or cookies, so I try to drink juice

when I get a craving, which is just about constant.

Is there a good resource about what to eat when hyper? I know my body is

craving things I shouldn't have, but it's difficult to know what I should or

shouldn't do.

Thanks,

Tori

In a message dated Fri, 5 Jul 2002 6:55:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

aldente@... writes:

> I guess it depends on what you mean by " juice " . Fruit juices are simply

> sugar, otherwise known as carbohydrates, sometimes referred to in the same

> vein as soda, as empty calories. What happens when you blast your system

> with a bunch of quick-digesting carbs (and carrot juice is included here,

> too), is your body has to deal with all the sugar fast, its insulin

> receptors become overwhelmed, and you get an energy peak followed by a huge

> energy crash and a tremendous appetite. That's a pretty simple explanation,

> but I think accurate. On the other hand if by 'juice' you mean veggie other

> than carrot, you might be OK, very short term--depending on

> how your hyper

> condition takes it.

[Guest guest]

Tori said:

" I don't think what I eat is bad either--tonight it was a small bowl of

zucchini, eggplant, mushrooms, garlic, onions, & tomato-herb sauce with 1/2

of a large slice of whole wheat bread & watermelon for dessert. You think

it's the wheat? "

well lets see, what here would make me feel sick these days: definitely the

tomato sauce, and definitely the whole wheat. I can tolerate a SMALL amount

of wheat now, but definitely not whole wheat, and I suspect the watermelon

for me (it's a no no for they blood type diet for me, so maybe this is why I

don't feel good with it).

I have also read that garlic and onions make us worse at first, let me find

that... ok, on ithyroid.com, it says garlic has zinc which depletes copper.

Mushrooms are the same, and I can't find the thing on onions that I read

somewhere. I really haven't followed this so much lately, just to notice

when I'm cooking with garlic or onions not to do it too often. But I do

remember when I was first diagnosed, anything with garlic made me feel bad.

And you don't have a major source of protein in there. You need to try to

get about 20 grams of protein with each meal. Fish has about 22, an egg has

about 12. Steak and chicken have about 12-17. I don't know what beans

have...

Maybe you should try to eat something simple like rice or potatoes for a

little while, see if you are ok with that, then add in one thing at a time

until you find something that makes you feel bad. That doesn't help with the

protein I know, but that is a decision only you can make. I don't know how

you are going to do it without eating at least fish and chicken.

I fear this is only going to confuse you more. You have a long road ahead of

you figuring all this out. It will get better when you get back up here and

can get in to Bastyr every week.

Hope you have a better day today.

:)Pam B.

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I know one thing for sure, which is that your sugar craving is brought on by

a need for protein. Weird, but true!

I have to admit, I did a stint many, many years ago (OK, so I was a " hippie "

during the flower-power years!), when I lived in Hawaii for 6 months--I ate

nothing but fruit and avocados. So did the folks I was with. We ALL got

miserably ill, I got deep sores that wouldn't heal, one of the guys I was

with (btw, his dad was science editor of the big daily newspaper here) ended

up in the hospital with malnutrition, being force-fed 's chicken

soup--and I also ended up with 14 cavities in my teeth when I came home and

went to the dentist. I'd never, ever had a cavity before. I also gained a

lot of weight, big abdomen like the malnourished babies in Africa pictures.

You simply DON'T get enough nutrition eating that way!

You may be getting vitamins from fruit juices if they are freshly extracted.

But vitamins are volatile, and the longer the juice is out of the fruit, the

less of them there will be. And, the bottom line is that the major component

of all those juices if fructose, which is sugar!

It might be interesting to ask you doctor to check your blood type, not that

I'm advocating the eat for your blood type diet, but I found when I looked

at it that my diet was already just about right for mine (B+), which

surprised and pleased me, so maybe there's some sense to it. You can check

that by doing a google search for blood type diet, it's all right there with

the food lists. Your doc won't generally know blood type, I had to get my

from my OBGYN, who had it because I'd had babies.

You do get some protein from dark green leafy veggies. Avocados have protein

too. But the problem is incomplete proteins, leaving out some of the amino

acids so your body can't use the protein well. That is why cultures usually

have some mechanism to get complete protein, even if poor--consider the corn

and beans combo for instance, both with incomplete proteins but they

compliment each other to make a complete amino acid chain.

Another site you may want to look at is Dr. Mercola (mercola.com). He has a

lot of great nutritional advice. He also has a whole thing on juicing. You

can subscribe to his on-line newsletter, and perhaps get some better advice

there than I can give. I am not a nutritionist, just a cooking teacher and

caterer--and someone with a long experience of trying different food

regimens, who has come to the conclusion that being a conscious, careful

omnivore is the best choice for ME.

Terry

> From: L@...

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 03:32:29 -0400

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Nutritional fasting

>

> I eat tons of whole fruits & veggies, both cooked and raw, but I still crave

> sugar.

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I have found, for myself, I do not recognize the craving for sugar and the

need for nutrients any differently. I MAY think I want sugar...as I know if

I eat sugar, I can feel better quickly and get back to what I am doing, but

once I learned the harm this was doing to me long term, I now try to always

have 'real food' available for such times.

I then eat the real food first, and promise myself, if after that snack or

meal, I still crave sugar, I can have a little treat. 99% of the time, I no

longer crave the sugar.

I think the sugar is just a bad habit I picked up years ago, and undoubtably

was part of the reason I came down with Graves' in the first place.

Then I stayed on the PTU for a long time, and was OK, but never really

right. Once I learned my lesson about protein, and other nutrients, things

started turning around.

Perhaps your body is trying to tell you something.

-Pam L -

[Guest guest]

Ugh! 20 grams of protein per meal?!? That's a lot. Even the USDA daily

requirements only suggest 50 grams per day and they're notorious for caving to

the factory farm lobby. So let's see, if I eat 3 eggs a day that's 3 x 12 = 36

grams plus each serving of protein powder has 22 grams, so that's 36 + 22 = 58.

That's pretty good for me, I think. Do I have to distribute it evenly

throughout each meal? I guess I could have one meal with 2 eggs and the other 2

meals with 1 protein shake each.

If tomatoes, garlic, and onions are bad for me, I may as well give up now.

's family is Italian, so those ingredients constitute at least 75% of our

meals! Besides, my docs at Bastyr suggested I eat lots of garlic.

To tell you the truth, I don't agree with much on ithyroid.com. I'm sure the

things that says there are true for him, but much of what he says

contradicts what my doctors have advised me to do. I had an absolute fit when I

read the part about selenium, mercury, and chromium supplements. These are

extremely dangerous minerals and I fear that people will get far too much in

their bodies if they take supplements. Herbs are powerful enough for 'normal'

people, much more so for those of us with compromised immune systems; minerals

are so much more powerful. We certainly don't need to take things that should

be trace minerals in large quantities.

I'm sorry, I'm ranting. My diet looks more bleak every day and I'm running out

of what little patience and composure I have left. I'm just going to follow the

liver cleansing diet until I can go to Bastyr for a diet analysis. It seems to

be the closest thing I can find to my doctor's advice and something that I can

actually follow and still eat things I like.

What do you guys eat? A side of beef at every meal? Long before I became a

vegetarian, I wasn't able to tolerate much meat and I'm sure I didn't get 60

grams of protein every day.

-Tori (sounding much more angry than I mean to. Not mad at anyone, just

frustrated with everything right now)

In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 9:49:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,

pam@... writes:

> Tori said:

> " I don't think what I eat is bad either--tonight it was a small bowl of

> zucchini, eggplant, mushrooms, garlic, onions, & tomato-herb sauce with 1/2

> of a large slice of whole wheat bread & watermelon for dessert. You think

> it's the wheat? "

>

> well lets see, what here would make me feel sick these days: definitely the

> tomato sauce, and definitely the whole wheat. I can tolerate a SMALL amount

> of wheat now, but definitely not whole wheat, and I suspect the watermelon

> for me (it's a no no for they blood type diet for me, so maybe this is why I

> don't feel good with it).

>

> I have also read that garlic and onions make us worse at first, let me find

> that... ok, on ithyroid.com, it says garlic has zinc which depletes copper.

> Mushrooms are the same, and I can't find the thing on onions that I read

> somewhere. I really haven't followed this so much lately, just to notice

> when I'm cooking with garlic or onions not to do it too often. But I do

> remember when I was first diagnosed, anything with garlic made me feel bad.

>

> And you don't have a major source of protein in there. You need to try to

> get about 20 grams of protein with each meal. Fish has about 22, an egg has

> about 12. Steak and chicken have about 12-17. I don't know what beans

> have...

>

> Maybe you should try to eat something simple like rice or potatoes for a

> little while, see if you are ok with that, then add in one thing at a time

> until you find something that makes you feel bad. That doesn't help with the

> protein I know, but that is a decision only you can make. I don't know how

> you are going to do it without eating at least fish and chicken.

>

> I fear this is only going to confuse you more. You have a long road ahead of

> you figuring all this out. It will get better when you get

> back up here and

> can get in to Bastyr every week.

>

> Hope you have a better day today.

>

> :)Pam B.

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry,

Surely as someone with the e-mail address 'aldente', you understand the love of

pasta with loads of garlic and tomatoes that I share with my Italian family

(although I am not Italian, just a mutt). Being told not to eat that is like a

death sentence to me. Gee, while the rest of the family is gorging themselves

on wonderful, tasty food, I'll be munching away on horrible tasting protein

powder and eggs. Can you tell I'm in an awful mood today? It's a good thing

I'm alone, I'd surely attack everyone around me. I seriously think I'd be

better off I were sedated and fed by IV for a couple of months until I'm a

little better.

Ok, I'll eat more protein and cut out the juice. What about fruits? Is there a

limit on how many whole fruits one should eat each day?

I admire you for being a hippie. I often think I was born in the wrong decade,

certainly the wrong part of the country (the South). I can think of few things

I'd rather be doing than living in Hawaii with fellow hippies eating nothing but

avocados and fruit ;-)

I have perfectly healthy friends who grew up in Vietnam and had never eaten

anything except rice, rice milk, and occasionally tofu before they came to the

US as teenagers. How can that be if we have to go through such great pains to

eat a balanced diet?

I skimmed over " Living Right for your Blood Type " at the library yesterday.

Based on the book's recommendations and description of each type, I'm guessing I

have type AB blood with more A tendancies than B. It would be interesting to

see if that is correct, especially since that is the rarest blood type, so odds

are against it. I'm going by a medical supply store to see if they have a home

blood type testing kit.

I don't mean to attack you, so I hope that's not how I'm coming across. I'm

paranoid as is and I'm having a very difficult time accepting that I can't think

as well as I used or do my job as well, I look like hell and I may have to

compromise my belief system to get better. I'm a mess. I'm sitting in front of

the computer with sobbing hysterically.

-tori

In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:28:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

aldente@... writes:

> Tori,

>

> I know one thing for sure, which is that your sugar craving is brought on by

> a need for protein. Weird, but true!

>

> I have to admit, I did a stint many, many years ago (OK, so I was a " hippie "

> during the flower-power years!), when I lived in Hawaii for 6 months--I ate

> nothing but fruit and avocados. So did the folks I was with. We ALL got

> miserably ill, I got deep sores that wouldn't heal, one of the guys I was

> with (btw, his dad was science editor of the big daily newspaper here) ended

> up in the hospital with malnutrition, being force-fed 's chicken

> soup--and I also ended up with 14 cavities in my teeth when I came home and

> went to the dentist. I'd never, ever had a cavity before. I also gained a

> lot of weight, big abdomen like the malnourished babies in Africa pictures.

> You simply DON'T get enough nutrition eating that way!

>

> You may be getting vitamins from fruit juices if they are freshly extracted.

> But vitamins are volatile, and the longer the juice is out of the fruit, the

> less of them there will be. And, the bottom line is that the major component

> of all those juices if fructose, which is sugar!

>

> It might be interesting to ask you doctor to check your blood type, not that

> I'm advocating the eat for your blood type diet, but I found when I looked

> at it that my diet was already just about right for mine (B+), which

> surprised and pleased me, so maybe there's some sense to it. You can check

> that by doing a google search for blood type diet, it's all right there with

> the food lists. Your doc won't generally know blood type, I had to get my

> from my OBGYN, who had it because I'd had babies.

>

> You do get some protein from dark green leafy veggies. Avocados have protein

> too. But the problem is incomplete proteins, leaving out some of the amino

> acids so your body can't use the protein well. That is why cultures usually

> have some mechanism to get complete protein, even if poor--consider the corn

> and beans combo for instance, both with incomplete proteins but they

> compliment each other to make a complete amino acid chain.

>

> Another site you may want to look at is Dr. Mercola (mercola.com). He has a

> lot of great nutritional advice. He also has a whole thing on juicing. You

> can subscribe to his on-line newsletter, and perhaps get some better advice

> there than I can give. I am not a nutritionist, just a cooking teacher and

> caterer--and someone with a long experience of trying different food

> regimens, who has come to the conclusion that being a

> conscious, careful

> omnivore is the best choice for ME.

>

> Terry

[Guest guest]

Hi Tori,

Your eating 3 eggs a day makes me worry about you, unless you are removing

the yoke. Be very careful to monitor your cholesterol as well as your

thyroid levels. When we move hypO, our cholesterol tends to make drastic

jumps on its own.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I don't feel attacked at all. I'm only trying to help, and I am not the one

who told you not to eat pasta and tomatoes and garlic and onions, nor would

I. I can feel how boxed into a corner you are, and I hope I've not

contributed to your misery. I certainly don't mean to.

My personal eating philosophy is to eat what feels good to me, as long as

it's fresh, not processed, and as organic as I can get it. I do eat meat,

but here in the SF bay area it's easy to get organic meat and chickens, and

now even grass fed beef is available. I also eat a lot of fish, and have

never had a discernible reaction to the iodine in fish and seafood, so I

don't worry about that. I have a veggie garden (small but productive) and we

have countless farmers' markets around here, and I go to most of them. I

love supporting the farmers, and the produce is the absolute best.

I eat a lot of fresh fruit. I think balance is key, not overdoing any one

food group. I also eat a lot of yogurt, goat cheese and even other good

cheeses, and (blush) I drink coffee, albeit espresso made from our own

home-roasted beans, and very carefully regulated amounts (never, ever more

than 3 oz. coffee a day). I also live in a male household, although it's

shrinking as my sons go off to college, and the boys and my husband have

definite carnivorous desires, but love their veggies, too. My middle child,

Joe, who is at UCLA right now keeps up an active email demand for recipes,

he's learning to cook because he misses fresh, home cooked food more than he

thought he would.

I teach adults how to cook, some of them helpless with their diets to start

with. There is so much processed food out there, so much garbage without

nutritional content! I can't tell you how many people I know who regularly

eat at fast-food restaurants, or throw stuff from the freezer into the

microwave for their families every evening. So, I teach how to make good,

simple and tasty food out of fresh ingredients.

I have always had a horror of being boxed into corners with my diet. Simple

things like not using iodized salt make sense to me, but I can't, and won't

eliminate any food group entirely. I just love to eat good food too much!

And, I review restaurants for a newspaper, cater peoples weddings and

parties, and need to be able to taste and enjoy everything to do my jobs

well. I have found that if I eat junk, I gain weight and don't feel good,

but if I eat good food, and (here's the big thing for you to remember, you

are impatient for results when you may not be able to get them yet!)*** my

thyroid levels are under control***, I don't gain. Don't lose either, but

have hovered at the edge between normal and slightly overweight, seemingly

forever, and I've gotten more used to it. MY neurosis about weight, learned

from my mother, has had me obsessing about it at times, but I've consciously

decided to simply eat well, and then let it be.

I hope this helps some, I am concerned that you are so stressed about food

to the point that you are not helping your thyroid heal--and that your being

hyper muddles your thinking, too. I know I can't think things through when

I'm as hyper as you are now. My best advice is to relax, eat whatever makes

you feel good for a while, but try to include protein in every meal if you

can, and enough " good " fats, too.

I hope you can get home soon, I know that will reduce your stress as well.

Best to you,

Terry

> From: L@...

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 16:12:11 -0400

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Nutritional fasting

>

> Hi Terry,

>

> Surely as someone with the e-mail address 'aldente', you understand the love

> of pasta with loads of garlic and tomatoes that I share with my Italian family

> (although I am not Italian, just a mutt). Being told not to eat that is like

> a death sentence to me. Gee, while the rest of the family is gorging

> themselves on wonderful, tasty food, I'll be munching away on horrible tasting

> protein powder and eggs. Can you tell I'm in an awful mood today? It's a

> good thing I'm alone, I'd surely attack everyone around me. I seriously think

> I'd be better off I were sedated and fed by IV for a couple of months until

> I'm a little better.

>

> Ok, I'll eat more protein and cut out the juice. What about fruits? Is there

> a limit on how many whole fruits one should eat each day?

>

> I admire you for being a hippie. I often think I was born in the wrong

> decade, certainly the wrong part of the country (the South). I can think of

> few things I'd rather be doing than living in Hawaii with fellow hippies

> eating nothing but avocados and fruit ;-)

>

> I have perfectly healthy friends who grew up in Vietnam and had never eaten

> anything except rice, rice milk, and occasionally tofu before they came to the

> US as teenagers. How can that be if we have to go through such great pains to

> eat a balanced diet?

>

> I skimmed over " Living Right for your Blood Type " at the library yesterday.

> Based on the book's recommendations and description of each type, I'm guessing

> I have type AB blood with more A tendancies than B. It would be interesting

> to see if that is correct, especially since that is the rarest blood type, so

> odds are against it. I'm going by a medical supply store to see if they have

> a home blood type testing kit.

>

> I don't mean to attack you, so I hope that's not how I'm coming across. I'm

> paranoid as is and I'm having a very difficult time accepting that I can't

> think as well as I used or do my job as well, I look like hell and I may have

> to compromise my belief system to get better. I'm a mess. I'm sitting in

> front of the computer with sobbing hysterically.

>

> -tori

>

> In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:28:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> aldente@... writes:

>

>> Tori,

>>

>> I know one thing for sure, which is that your sugar craving is brought on by

>> a need for protein. Weird, but true!

>>

>> I have to admit, I did a stint many, many years ago (OK, so I was a " hippie "

>> during the flower-power years!), when I lived in Hawaii for 6 months--I ate

>> nothing but fruit and avocados. So did the folks I was with. We ALL got

>> miserably ill, I got deep sores that wouldn't heal, one of the guys I was

>> with (btw, his dad was science editor of the big daily newspaper here) ended

>> up in the hospital with malnutrition, being force-fed 's chicken

>> soup--and I also ended up with 14 cavities in my teeth when I came home and

>> went to the dentist. I'd never, ever had a cavity before. I also gained a

>> lot of weight, big abdomen like the malnourished babies in Africa pictures.

>> You simply DON'T get enough nutrition eating that way!

>>

>> You may be getting vitamins from fruit juices if they are freshly extracted.

>> But vitamins are volatile, and the longer the juice is out of the fruit, the

>> less of them there will be. And, the bottom line is that the major component

>> of all those juices if fructose, which is sugar!

>>

>> It might be interesting to ask you doctor to check your blood type, not that

>> I'm advocating the eat for your blood type diet, but I found when I looked

>> at it that my diet was already just about right for mine (B+), which

>> surprised and pleased me, so maybe there's some sense to it. You can check

>> that by doing a google search for blood type diet, it's all right there with

>> the food lists. Your doc won't generally know blood type, I had to get my

>> from my OBGYN, who had it because I'd had babies.

>>

>> You do get some protein from dark green leafy veggies. Avocados have protein

>> too. But the problem is incomplete proteins, leaving out some of the amino

>> acids so your body can't use the protein well. That is why cultures usually

>> have some mechanism to get complete protein, even if poor--consider the corn

>> and beans combo for instance, both with incomplete proteins but they

>> compliment each other to make a complete amino acid chain.

>>

>> Another site you may want to look at is Dr. Mercola (mercola.com). He has a

>> lot of great nutritional advice. He also has a whole thing on juicing. You

>> can subscribe to his on-line newsletter, and perhaps get some better advice

>> there than I can give. I am not a nutritionist, just a cooking teacher and

>> caterer--and someone with a long experience of trying different food

>> regimens, who has come to the conclusion that being a

>> conscious, careful

>> omnivore is the best choice for ME.

>>

>> Terry

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Even if that's the only cholestrol I ever eat?

In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 3:29:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

luckystrike@... writes:

> Hi Tori,

> Your eating 3 eggs a day makes me worry about you, unless you are removing

> the yoke. Be very careful to monitor your cholesterol as well as your

> thyroid levels. When we move hypO, our cholesterol tends

> to make drastic

> jumps on its own.

> Jody

[Guest guest]

No, it was me that said tomatoes make me sick these days. I love them, but

can no longer eat them. I was only trying to help you figure out what you

are eating that makes you feel bad, by saying what makes me feel bad.

Experiment if you want to, or not. Just trying to help.

Re: Nutritional fasting

>

> Hi Terry,

>

> Surely as someone with the e-mail address 'aldente', you understand the

love

> of pasta with loads of garlic and tomatoes that I share with my Italian

family

> (although I am not Italian, just a mutt). Being told not to eat that is

like

> a death sentence to me. Gee, while the rest of the family is gorging

> themselves on wonderful, tasty food, I'll be munching away on horrible

tasting

> protein powder and eggs. Can you tell I'm in an awful mood today? It's a

> good thing I'm alone, I'd surely attack everyone around me. I seriously

think

> I'd be better off I were sedated and fed by IV for a couple of months

until

> I'm a little better.

>

> Ok, I'll eat more protein and cut out the juice. What about fruits? Is

there

> a limit on how many whole fruits one should eat each day?

>

> I admire you for being a hippie. I often think I was born in the wrong

> decade, certainly the wrong part of the country (the South). I can think

of

> few things I'd rather be doing than living in Hawaii with fellow hippies

> eating nothing but avocados and fruit ;-)

>

> I have perfectly healthy friends who grew up in Vietnam and had never

eaten

> anything except rice, rice milk, and occasionally tofu before they came to

the

> US as teenagers. How can that be if we have to go through such great

pains to

> eat a balanced diet?

>

> I skimmed over " Living Right for your Blood Type " at the library

yesterday.

> Based on the book's recommendations and description of each type, I'm

guessing

> I have type AB blood with more A tendancies than B. It would be

interesting

> to see if that is correct, especially since that is the rarest blood type,

so

> odds are against it. I'm going by a medical supply store to see if they

have

> a home blood type testing kit.

>

> I don't mean to attack you, so I hope that's not how I'm coming across.

I'm

> paranoid as is and I'm having a very difficult time accepting that I can't

> think as well as I used or do my job as well, I look like hell and I may

have

> to compromise my belief system to get better. I'm a mess. I'm sitting in

> front of the computer with sobbing hysterically.

>

> -tori

>

> In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 11:28:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> aldente@... writes:

>

>> Tori,

>>

>> I know one thing for sure, which is that your sugar craving is brought on

by

>> a need for protein. Weird, but true!

>>

>> I have to admit, I did a stint many, many years ago (OK, so I was a

" hippie "

>> during the flower-power years!), when I lived in Hawaii for 6 months--I

ate

>> nothing but fruit and avocados. So did the folks I was with. We ALL got

>> miserably ill, I got deep sores that wouldn't heal, one of the guys I was

>> with (btw, his dad was science editor of the big daily newspaper here)

ended

>> up in the hospital with malnutrition, being force-fed 's chicken

>> soup--and I also ended up with 14 cavities in my teeth when I came home

and

>> went to the dentist. I'd never, ever had a cavity before. I also gained a

>> lot of weight, big abdomen like the malnourished babies in Africa

pictures.

>> You simply DON'T get enough nutrition eating that way!

>>

>> You may be getting vitamins from fruit juices if they are freshly

extracted.

>> But vitamins are volatile, and the longer the juice is out of the fruit,

the

>> less of them there will be. And, the bottom line is that the major

component

>> of all those juices if fructose, which is sugar!

>>

>> It might be interesting to ask you doctor to check your blood type, not

that

>> I'm advocating the eat for your blood type diet, but I found when I

looked

>> at it that my diet was already just about right for mine (B+), which

>> surprised and pleased me, so maybe there's some sense to it. You can

check

>> that by doing a google search for blood type diet, it's all right there

with

>> the food lists. Your doc won't generally know blood type, I had to get my

>> from my OBGYN, who had it because I'd had babies.

>>

>> You do get some protein from dark green leafy veggies. Avocados have

protein

>> too. But the problem is incomplete proteins, leaving out some of the

amino

>> acids so your body can't use the protein well. That is why cultures

usually

>> have some mechanism to get complete protein, even if poor--consider the

corn

>> and beans combo for instance, both with incomplete proteins but they

>> compliment each other to make a complete amino acid chain.

>>

>> Another site you may want to look at is Dr. Mercola (mercola.com). He has

a

>> lot of great nutritional advice. He also has a whole thing on juicing.

You

>> can subscribe to his on-line newsletter, and perhaps get some better

advice

>> there than I can give. I am not a nutritionist, just a cooking teacher

and

>> caterer--and someone with a long experience of trying different food

>> regimens, who has come to the conclusion that being a

>> conscious, careful

>> omnivore is the best choice for ME.

>>

>> Terry

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I'm sorry Pam. I know you're trying to help. I'm having a bad day and am

taking it out on everyone. I think it's best to just keep my mouth shut when I

feel like this. I'm going to pharmacy to find blood type testing kit now.

Maybe it will tell me I'm type A and can't tolerate animal protein. That would

make me feel better ;-)

-Tori

In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 4:14:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

pam@... writes:

> No, it was me that said tomatoes make me sick these days. I love them, but

> can no longer eat them. I was only trying to help you figure out what you

> are eating that makes you feel bad, by saying what makes me

> feel bad.

> Experiment if you want to, or not. Just trying to help.

[Guest guest]

>>>Even if that's the only cholestrol I ever eat?<<<

How can you be sure if it is the only cholesterol you are eating? I would

just check with your doctor on this Tori. We are suppose to only have 2-4

eggs a week, your eating almost 2 dozen in a week. Just something to check

on, unless your ditching the yoke, then you should be okay.

Jody

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[Guest guest]

BUT the yoke's the best part !

So we could have a debate on eggs, or take a survey...but..

Tori, you have the answer right there in those labs you had done the time

you had to fast.

Go get them and see if you had high cholestrol.

I eat many , many eggs, and so far had not had a problem

But, Jody, you have reminded me I should check again. It would upset my

whole apple cart if I had to count my eggs. They are what gives me the

strength to get going and stay going.

-Pam L -

[Guest guest]

In a message dated Sat, 6 Jul 2002 6:10:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,

luckystrike@... writes:

> >>>Even if that's the only cholestrol I ever eat?<<<

>

> How can you be sure if it is the only cholesterol you are eating? I would

> just check with your doctor on this Tori. We are suppose to only have 2-4

> eggs a week, your eating almost 2 dozen in a week. Just

> something to check

> on, unless your ditching the yoke, then you should be okay.

> Jody

Cholesterol is only found in animal products. If I don't eat meat or dairy, the

only source of cholesterol left is eggs. It's my doctor's idea for me to eat

all these eggs. He told me to cut out soy, which was my biggest source of

protein. So, to replace it, he suggests eggs. He gave me info about protein

quality. Eggs are a perfect source of protein, then milk, then rice, and

finally soy. Meat was not in this particular list, so I'm not sure where it

fits into the picture.

Here's a blurb I found on a site called FamilyFun: Ask the Nutritionist:

Over the years, people have been discouraged from eating eggs because it was

believed that they contained too much cholesterol. With improved measuring

techniques and feeding practices, we now know that eggs are 22 percent lower in

cholesterol than we used to think--213 instead of 274 milligrams.

Not only that, but researchers have found that two thirds of the population can

eat eggs without seeing a rise in their blood cholesterol. That's because eggs

have very little saturated fat, one of the key culprits in raising blood

cholesterol.

Anyway, since my doctor told me to eat them, I will until I can ask him more

about it. He did run cholesterol test for me. I don't remember the exact

number, but it was fairly low because I was a vegan/vegetarian for years.

-Tori