Re: Just visited a 12-step site.....Isn't there another way?

[Guest guest]

Braidenstone,

You may suggest she check out Chapter 18 (AVRT for Gamblers) of Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction, by Jack Trimpey, 1996. After learning some AVRT (on the website for instance http://rational.org ) may ask questions on the RR discussion forum at http://rational.org//Forum.intro.html .

Dave Trippel

Just visited a 12-step site.....Isn't there another way?

Hi there...I am sober 17 years, and A.A. free for 2 years, or more.My best friend has a bad gambling problem, and is convinced she has a disease, and I just dont understand.I have been through hell with her, and now she wants to recover. Sort of....She had herself banned from the casinos she goes to in our city. So now she is panicking and angry at anyone and everyone because she is a "victim" of this "disease". Now anyone who happens to be left in her life should "be there" for her without judging her, and tolerate the temper-tantrums, etc...She has devastated her 2 sons, her ex-husband who is dying (though she continues to suck him dry for money after she has spent all her son's child support), she has lied to all of us for 3 years, stolen from us, and the list goes ON!You get the gist.What are the opinions around here about problem gamblers and could I get some feedback on how to deal with this situation?Thanks very much!!Braidenstone

[Guest guest]

-Thanks alot Dave! Will do!

(I hope Im posting these messages right when replying...dont know how

to use this message board yet!)

Again, thanks for responding,

Braidenstone

-- In 12-step-free@y..., " Trippel " <davetrippel@a...> wrote:

> Braidenstone,

>

> You may suggest she check out Chapter 18 (AVRT for Gamblers) of

Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction, by Jack

Trimpey, 1996. After learning some AVRT (on the website for instance

http://rational.org ) may ask questions on the RR discussion forum at

http://rational.org//Forum.intro.html .

>

> Dave Trippel

> Just visited a 12-step site.....Isn't

there another way?

>

>

> Hi there...

>

> I am sober 17 years, and A.A. free for 2 years, or more.

>

> My best friend has a bad gambling problem, and is convinced she

has a

> disease, and I just dont understand.

>

> I have been through hell with her, and now she wants to recover.

Sort

> of....She had herself banned from the casinos she goes to in our

> city. So now she is panicking and angry at anyone and everyone

> because she is a " victim " of this " disease " . Now anyone who

happens

> to be left in her life should " be there " for her without judging

her,

> and tolerate the temper-tantrums, etc...

>

> She has devastated her 2 sons, her ex-husband who is dying

(though

> she continues to suck him dry for money after she has spent all

her

> son's child support), she has lied to all of us for 3 years,

stolen

> from us, and the list goes ON!

>

> You get the gist.

>

> What are the opinions around here about problem gamblers and

could I

> get some feedback on how to deal with this situation?

>

> Thanks very much!!

>

> Braidenstone

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Braid...I didn't respond to this post because I don't know what to do

about problem gamblers. I don't know if compulsive gambling is similar to

compulsive spending. (I was married to a compulsive spender for seventeen

years. It was pure hell.)

You say she had herself banned from casinos. Do you mean she asked them to

not let her in, or do you mean they threw her ass out?

My first response is to suggest that you take care of yourself and not let

her hit you up for gambling money. And not let her guilt-trip you.

But I don't know what else to say. The steppers counsel " tough love " , but

that too often is merely an excuse for revengy and abusiveness. While I

don't have a compulsive gambler in my life, I do have a partner who is

abusive and has *serious* problems (and we had another hoo-hah last night),

and I am re-thinking the " tough love " stuff and the standard stepper stuff,

and what I need to do. Stick around, Braiden, and maybe something will

materialize for both, and all, of us.

Cheers,

nz

[Guest guest]

> Hi, Braid...I didn't respond to this post because I don't know what

to do

> about problem gamblers. I don't know if compulsive gambling is

similar to

> compulsive spending. (I was married to a compulsive spender for

seventeen

> years. It was pure hell.)

>

> You say she had herself banned from casinos. Do you mean she asked

them to

> not let her in, or do you mean they threw her ass out?

>

> My first response is to suggest that you take care of yourself and

not let

> her hit you up for gambling money. And not let her guilt-trip you.

>

> But I don't know what else to say. The steppers counsel " tough

love " , but

> that too often is merely an excuse for revengy and abusiveness.

While I

> don't have a compulsive gambler in my life, I do have a partner who

is

> abusive and has *serious* problems (and we had another hoo-hah last

night),

> and I am re-thinking the " tough love " stuff and the standard

stepper stuff,

> and what I need to do. Stick around, Braiden, and maybe something

will

> materialize for both, and all, of us.

>

> Cheers,

>

> nz

Hey lauranz,

Thanks for responding.

She did what they call a " self-banishment " here in the state of New

Mexico. You fill out a form and have yer pic taken for all the casino

employees to view, so if they see you, they immediatly throw yer ass

out!

I guess since I've left A.A., I really dont want to be " supportive "

in the 12-step way, because I feel that we have free-will, and she

has already been down the other road of not drinking. So she does

know how to NOT do something that's destructive to herself and others.

I have a real problem with the " disease concept " . Always did for all

those years. My own spiritual views have changed drastically even

while in A.A., to the point that I have personal power in my life

now. (SHAME on me!!) When I was being told that I had no power to

make decisions for myself, it never felt right for me.I fought with

more people over that!

That is why Im so angry at this situation. I no longer buy the

doctrine of " poor, powerless me. Im just a victim of something I

cannot control " . It makes me want to slap her silly! Where the hell

are the ovaries??? Ha-ha!

Braiden

[Guest guest]

Braiden: It sounds like your friend has totally bought into the

disease theory. So I'm thinking, why fight it? If she has that

mindset, she'd probably do best in a 12-Step group for the time

being. She'd probably fit right in. They'd be telling her exactly

what she wants to hear. Eventually she may snap to the fact that it's

all ridiculous, but in the meantime she might get the support she

needs to knock off the gambling. Basically, I guess I'd tell her, " I

don't think you have a disease, but if you're convinced that you do,

you can get support from other people who believe compulsive gambling

is a disease. So go to GA. " And I'd also definitely not give her any

more money.

Also, some psych meds are supposed to help with compulsive behavior.

I don't know how well they really work, but it might not hurt to

consult a psychiatrist, if she still has any kind of medical

insurance.

[Guest guest]

Hi Braiden,

Just to say that I think Mr Reindeer makes sensible points here.

P.

> Braiden: It sounds like your friend has totally bought into the

> disease theory. So I'm thinking, why fight it? If she has that

> mindset, she'd probably do best in a 12-Step group for the time

> being. She'd probably fit right in. They'd be telling her exactly

> what she wants to hear. Eventually she may snap to the fact that

it's

> all ridiculous, but in the meantime she might get the support she

> needs to knock off the gambling. Basically, I guess I'd tell her, " I

> don't think you have a disease, but if you're convinced that you do,

> you can get support from other people who believe compulsive

gambling

> is a disease. So go to GA. " And I'd also definitely not give her any

> more money.

>

> Also, some psych meds are supposed to help with compulsive behavior.

> I don't know how well they really work, but it might not hurt to

> consult a psychiatrist, if she still has any kind of medical

> insurance.

[Guest guest]

> Braiden: It sounds like your friend has totally bought into the

> disease theory. So I'm thinking, why fight it? If she has that

> mindset, she'd probably do best in a 12-Step group for the time

> being. She'd probably fit right in. They'd be telling her exactly

> what she wants to hear. Eventually she may snap to the fact that

it's

> all ridiculous, but in the meantime she might get the support she

> needs to knock off the gambling. Basically, I guess I'd tell

her, " I

> don't think you have a disease, but if you're convinced that you

do,

> you can get support from other people who believe compulsive

gambling

> is a disease. So go to GA. " And I'd also definitely not give her

any

> more money.

>

> Also, some psych meds are supposed to help with compulsive

behavior.

> I don't know how well they really work, but it might not hurt to

> consult a psychiatrist, if she still has any kind of medical

> insurance.

I told her EXACTLY that today! How weird!

I also talked to a long ago friend from A.A. today who is taking her

to meetings, and she was so shocked to hear me say I stopped A.A.

over 2 years ago...maybe 3! She got real quiet, and got the

old " aahhhh. Boy are you going over the edge! " attitude!

Sometimes I love to see the reactions I get from them when I tell

them Im on a different path! That I no longer agree with the

teachings of A.A. They get all quiet before they wizzle all over

themselves trying to think of something to say!

Braiden

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Eventually she may snap to the fact that

it's

> all ridiculous, but in the meantime she might get the support she

> needs to knock off the gambling. Basically, I guess I'd tell her, " I

> don't think you have a disease, but if you're convinced that you do,

> you can get support from other people who believe compulsive

gambling

> is a disease. So go to GA. "

I disagree. Going into a step group might set her back years. They

teach powerlessness, and reinforce that idea over and over. GA sounds

like just another entrance into the cult.

I have a strong feeling that AA actually makes drinking behavior

worse for a sizable population, and I don't see how GA would be any

different.

I *used* to think that some " support " was better than going it alone,

but now I'm convinced that the XA brand is not it. OTOH, I did go

through that process and stay abstinent for 3 years and did eventually

come out of it again, blah, blah. I don't have my own personal

control group for doing it any other way.

However, I wouldn't wish XA on anyone.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> Eventually she may snap to the fact that

> it's

> > all ridiculous, but in the meantime she might get the support she

> > needs to knock off the gambling. Basically, I guess I'd tell

her, " I

> > don't think you have a disease, but if you're convinced that you

do,

> > you can get support from other people who believe compulsive

> gambling

> > is a disease. So go to GA. "

>

> I disagree. Going into a step group might set her back years.

They

> teach powerlessness, and reinforce that idea over and over. GA

sounds

> like just another entrance into the cult.

>

> I have a strong feeling that AA actually makes drinking behavior

> worse for a sizable population, and I don't see how GA would be any

> different.

>

> I *used* to think that some " support " was better than going it

alone,

> but now I'm convinced that the XA brand is not it. OTOH, I did go

> through that process and stay abstinent for 3 years and did

eventually

> come out of it again, blah, blah. I don't have my own personal

> control group for doing it any other way.

>

> However, I wouldn't wish XA on anyone.

>

>

Well, now she is being carted to A.A. meetings again, which puts me

into indirect contact with alot of the people I hung out with for

years .... I was invited to her son's and ex-husband's birthday party

on Sat. Alot of my old friends will be there, and it should be

interesting!

They seem to get either a blank goofey stare, or an uncomfortable

silence when they ask " so where have YOU been? " , and I tell them I

dont go to meetings anymore.

One girl said " yeah...I got away from A.A. for awhile too ,

butmymomwassickandihadtotakecareofher! " Ha!!!! Real fast, like I was

going to ask her WHY? They have to have a good reason, or people

might not think they are " spiritual " !

Braiden