Re: Anti-depressants! **Stimulant Meds

[Guest guest]

What I really feel is a shame in this country, due to our drug scheduling

laws, is the non-use of stimulants to treat severe depression when not

accompanied by anxiety and after a couple of other treatments have failed. I

have seen suicidal people, including myself, suddenly become happy,

functioning, interactive in a short period of time when finally put on a

stimulant (I was put on Adderall which is a blend of three amphetamines.)

True they are addictive but my life has changed enormously in the past nine

months, I re-opened my business and went back to college and can finally

interact with people normally. The whole thing revolves around the stimulants

being Schedule II (which is the same class as all of the powerful painkillers

and morphine analogs) so docs are frowned upon to prescribe them if it's

" only " depression and not ADHD (the primary condition those drugs are used

for.) Oh well.

[Guest guest]

Agreed Nick.

Not a chance in hell of me ever seing them, except perhaps as an

appetite supppressant. (Maybe I ahould ask for them as that). A

Canadian neurologist even contemplated sennding me some, he was so

concerned that I couldnt get them here.

P.

> What I really feel is a shame in this country, due to our drug

scheduling

> laws, is the non-use of stimulants to treat severe depression when

not

> accompanied by anxiety and after a couple of other treatments have

failed. I

> have seen suicidal people, including myself, suddenly become happy,

> functioning, interactive in a short period of time when finally put

on a

> stimulant (I was put on Adderall which is a blend of three

amphetamines.)

> True they are addictive but my life has changed enormously in the

past nine

> months, I re-opened my business and went back to college and can

finally

> interact with people normally. The whole thing revolves around the

stimulants

> being Schedule II (which is the same class as all of the powerful

painkillers

> and morphine analogs) so docs are frowned upon to prescribe them if

it's

> " only " depression and not ADHD (the primary condition those drugs

are used

> for.) Oh well.

[Guest guest]

Oh boy. Stimulants. I, too, deplore the drug laws that make it hard for

legitimate patients to get stimulants.

Yes, I am well aware that stimulants help with certain kinds of depression.

The usual anti-depressants don't work for everyone, and it's a shame that

these stimulant medications are so hard to come by.

I use Adderall for my ADD/ADHD, and I'm thankful for it. As for the

" addictive " property of stimulants, I'd like to hear more. I hear that they

are supposed to be addictive, yet I've never developed any sort of craving.

When I was young I used diet pills. I hadn't been diagnosed with the ADD

yet (that didn't happen till I was turning 55, almost five years ago), and I

was using the diet pills because I needed to lose weight. Not only did the

pills help me lose the weight, they also improved my mood and allowed me to

function more efficiently. Other people took the pills and got all jumpy

and hyper and speedy, but I stabilized and was in a better condition.

I used these pills over a period of nine years. Say what? Nine years?

Must be an addict, of course. But no. I never got addicted. I never

abused the medication.

What would happen was that I would develop a tolerance and the medication

would lose its effectiveness. If I were an addict I would have increased

the dosage. But I didn't do this. When tolerance developed, I stopped. I

simply stopped. I didn't experience withdrawal symptoms. I just left the

medication alone for a number of months. (And I gained weight. If there is

" addiction " it's to food.) Then I would start taking the medication again.

I'd use it till the tolerance developed again. And then I'd stop again. No

drug abuse, no increasing and increasing and increasing dosage. No

weirdness, no running from doctor to doctor, from drug store to drug store

to get more and more.

By the time nine years had passed doctors were no longer prescribing diet

pills with the reckless abandon they'd done so with a number of years

earlier. The doctor discontinued the pills and sent me to Weight Watchers.

For me, the final word about " addiction " hasn't been said yet. There are a

number of patterns I don't fit. I know what it feels like to be in the grip

of a powerful compulsion, an overwhelming craving. I know the despair and

horrors that come with being obsessed with a substance or action. But I

don't fit the usual patterns.

I've heard tell that there are medications that one can increase till a

certain plateau is reached, where the patient stabilizes. Chronic pain

patients can stay on opioids and remain at the same level for months and

even years. I've heard it said that this can be done with stimulants, too.

I don't know how true this is. Stimulants are a different kind of

medication, obviously. And I haven't tried.

Thinking more about " addiction " . I wonder about Obsessive-Compulsive

Disorder. I have Tourette's Syndrome. I have ADD/ADHD. These have been

diagnosed. I haven't had other things diagnosed becaue I didn't want to

spend the considerable money to do so. I suspect if I opened my wallet and

spent the money I'd find I have mild OCD and some form of Narcolepsy along

with my other disorders. I wonder if OCD can appear like " addiction " .

What I'm wondering is if the term " addiction " actually covers " addicted "

behaviors that manifest for a variety of different reasons. I mean, some

people might build a physical dependence on a substance and develop their

addiction via that route, while others might be suffering from unrecognized

and untreated OCD. I don't have an answer here. Just a question.

Cheers,

nz

[Guest guest]

Hi NKCT1980 and all,

I have fears about amphetamine use for depression. They may be

outdated or unfounded, and I'll be happy to be updated or corrected.

My fear comes from my father's experience, which was a classic

worst-case-scenario. In the 1960's he was prescribed amphetamines for

his major depression. And they worked wonders. He was instantly

energetic and functional. However, the effect of the same dose soon

wore thin. His doctor increased the dose, and continued increasing it

until it was at some incredibly high dose that would probably never

be prescribed today. When this spiral ended, a big crash came, and

shortly after he had a severe nervous breakdown, and complete

resumption of the depression.

I don't mean to be doomy, and I'm glad it's helping you, but do you

feel it's a good long-term solution?

[Guest guest]

asked about amphetamines as a long term solution for depression.

I don't think it was me he was asking; I think it was Nick. And Nick will

most likely have something to say.

My guess is that the problem was the careless increasing of dosage on the

part of the doctor. As I mentioned in my post of a little bit ago this

morning, I didn't ask for an increase in dosage. I took a drug holiday and

was careful to not get into that ever-increasing spiral upwards and upwards.

Perhaps things might have worked out better for your Dad if the doctor had

been more conservative in his prescribing and had given your Dad drug

holidays to keep this ever-increasing dosage from happening.

But that was the '60's. Doctors were, or so it seems to me, much more

inclined to hand out these pills in those days. There were diet doctors who

had big, big bottles of pills right there in their office to dispense to

their overweight patients. Didn't even have to go to the pharmacy. Pills,

pills, pills, didn't even need a prescription in those days.

Nowadays it seems to me that the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite

direction...

I'm sorry to hear that things went so badly for your Dad. It wasn't

necessary for him to suffer. I was taking my pills at the same time he was

and had the opposite result. I did well because I never increased the

dosage, but took drug holidays of my own making instead. A wiser doctor

might have been able to manage your Dad's medicine so that it benefitted him

without getting him into that destructive upward spiral.

Cheers,

nz

[Guest guest]

and I have slightly different perceptions:

Me, " But that was in the 60's. Doctors were, or so it seems to me, much more

inclined to hand out these pills in those days. "

, " That is not my understanding. All surveys i have seen tend to

substantiate

the claim that the prescribing of all psycho-active drugs has increased

drastically over the past ten years. "

Perhaps the difference is not so much how many drugs are prescribed, but how

they are prescribed.

Yes, lots of doctors do prescribe Ritalin for kids with ADD. In some cases

this is appropriate and helpful, in others it isn't.

And it does seem to me that there are a lot of anti-depressants being

prescribed.

Rather, what I was talking about was how diet doctors could keep big bottles

of pills right there in their offices and distribute them to their patients.

You can't do that any more. Doctors can't just give out amphetamines to

overweight women the way they used to. It was so easy to get Dexamyl back

in the '60's. Doctors were just givin' 'em out like candy. I don't think

they make Dexamyl any more.

Yes, kids get ritalin, and adults get Prozac, but just try to be an adult

with ADD. It's harder these days to get stimulants. Many doctors are

afraid of the DEA. In New York State it requires a special triplicate

prescription form. In PA it only takes a regular form, but no refills may

be prescribed. Doctors can't keep big bottles of pills in their offices and

just hand them out. Back in 1963 a doctor just handed me a whole box of

samples of Dexamyl. A whole boxful. No prescription. All those pills free

for nothing. Can't do that sort of thing today. Oh, the doctor can give

samples, but it won't be stimulants he gives out.

Cheers,

nz

[Guest guest]

Hi,

> That is not my understanding. All surveys i have seen tend to

substantiate

> the claim that the prescribing of all psycho-active drugs has

increased

> drastically over the past ten years. The UK figures for the

prescribing or

> Ritalin, an amphetamine based drug, have skyrocketed over the past 5

years

> or so.

This is true. These kids used to be " rowdy, " they don't fit in with

what is deemed to be " normal " classroom behavior. There has been an

absolute *explosion* in prescribing Ritalin in the US. People are

starting to question it now. The social definitons and perceived

solutions are what have changed, not the behavior of the kids.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes we do have differing perceptions as regards most areas of

Mental Health but I feel that to be a healthy situation as it can give a

choice of response to those suffering an overwhelm of negativity in their

lives. My own experience leads me to identify with the Social Model as

opposed to the Medical Model and I have found that by changing the

conditions in my life it has also changed my level of happiness/contentment.

Years and years of psychotropic medications had little or no positive effect

on myself, or my mother for that matter. If I had just wanted to be able to

handle the lifestyle I was leading the result may, indeed, have been

different. However that was not the case for me as i had little in my life I

wished to sustain. Those whose identities are more established within the

framework of their society, and are receiving the rewards that these skills

deserve in their eyes, might indeed prefer to find some way to sustain one

part of their lives while changing another part.

My own problems, I feel, were more fundamental than that and it was by

learning the various skills which i lacked that that allowed me to change

the fabric of my life by efforts made by myself. However an effect of that

was to make myself highly problematic to some of those in the Establishment

Camp and i was quickly labelled a " Bolshie " or a troublemaker.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: <12-step-free >

>Subject: Re: Re: Anti-depressants! **Stimulant Meds

>Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:44:57 -0400

>

> and I have slightly different perceptions:

>

>Me, " But that was in the 60's. Doctors were, or so it seems to me, much

>more

>inclined to hand out these pills in those days. "

>

>, " That is not my understanding. All surveys i have seen tend to

>substantiate

>the claim that the prescribing of all psycho-active drugs has increased

>drastically over the past ten years. "

>

>Perhaps the difference is not so much how many drugs are prescribed, but

>how

>they are prescribed.

>

>Yes, lots of doctors do prescribe Ritalin for kids with ADD. In some cases

>this is appropriate and helpful, in others it isn't.

>

>And it does seem to me that there are a lot of anti-depressants being

>prescribed.

>

>Rather, what I was talking about was how diet doctors could keep big

>bottles

>of pills right there in their offices and distribute them to their

>patients.

>You can't do that any more. Doctors can't just give out amphetamines to

>overweight women the way they used to. It was so easy to get Dexamyl back

>in the '60's. Doctors were just givin' 'em out like candy. I don't think

>they make Dexamyl any more.

>

>Yes, kids get ritalin, and adults get Prozac, but just try to be an adult

>with ADD. It's harder these days to get stimulants. Many doctors are

>afraid of the DEA. In New York State it requires a special triplicate

>prescription form. In PA it only takes a regular form, but no refills may

>be prescribed. Doctors can't keep big bottles of pills in their offices

>and

>just hand them out. Back in 1963 a doctor just handed me a whole box of

>samples of Dexamyl. A whole boxful. No prescription. All those pills

>free

>for nothing. Can't do that sort of thing today. Oh, the doctor can give

>samples, but it won't be stimulants he gives out.

>

>Cheers,

>

>nz

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

A book I read a couple of years ago by Bly, " The Sibling Society " had

a lot to say on how todays is full of people who have not matured and tries

to explain reasons for this. I found it very informative. If ADD is a

chemical imbalance or a genetically based problem then the implications of

this absolves society or parenthood from most of the " blame. " It allows

peoplke to look for external reasons while the internal is ignored for the

most, though a lot of good work has been done linking diet to this form of

behaviour.

>From: ahicks@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Anti-depressants! **Stimulant Meds

>Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:13:50 -0000

>

>

>

>Hi,

>

> > That is not my understanding. All surveys i have seen tend to

>substantiate

> > the claim that the prescribing of all psycho-active drugs has

>increased

> > drastically over the past ten years. The UK figures for the

>prescribing or

> > Ritalin, an amphetamine based drug, have skyrocketed over the past 5

>years

> > or so.

>

>This is true. These kids used to be " rowdy, " they don't fit in with

>what is deemed to be " normal " classroom behavior. There has been an

>absolute *explosion* in prescribing Ritalin in the US. People are

>starting to question it now. The social definitons and perceived

>solutions are what have changed, not the behavior of the kids.

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I worked in a prison, and even some of the crazy inmates knew better than to

accept the psychotropic drugs that the staff was trying to get them to take.

Mike.

Re: Re: Anti-depressants! **Stimulant Meds

> >Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:23:11 -0400

> >

> > asked about amphetamines as a long term solution for depression.

> >

> >I don't think it was me he was asking; I think it was Nick. And Nick

will

> >most likely have something to say.

> >

> >My guess is that the problem was the careless increasing of dosage on the

> >part of the doctor. As I mentioned in my post of a little bit ago this

> >morning, I didn't ask for an increase in dosage. I took a drug holiday

and

> >was careful to not get into that ever-increasing spiral upwards and

> >upwards.

> >

> >Perhaps things might have worked out better for your Dad if the doctor

had

> >been more conservative in his prescribing and had given your Dad drug

> >holidays to keep this ever-increasing dosage from happening.

> >

> >But that was the '60's. Doctors were, or so it seems to me, much more

> >inclined to hand out these pills in those days. There were diet doctors

> >who

> >had big, big bottles of pills right there in their office to dispense to

> >their overweight patients. Didn't even have to go to the pharmacy.

Pills,

> >pills, pills, didn't even need a prescription in those days.

> >

> >Nowadays it seems to me that the pendulum has swung too far in the

opposite

> >direction...

> >

> >I'm sorry to hear that things went so badly for your Dad. It wasn't

> >necessary for him to suffer. I was taking my pills at the same time he

was

> >and had the opposite result. I did well because I never increased the

> >dosage, but took drug holidays of my own making instead. A wiser doctor

> >might have been able to manage your Dad's medicine so that it benefitted

> >him

> >without getting him into that destructive upward spiral.

> >

> >Cheers,

> >

> >nz

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________________

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>

>

>

>

>