Guest guest Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 Nick I hear you loud and clear. I went to an a.a. meeting last night and left more frustrated than when I got there. Short synopsis: Before meeting - Treasurer states no money ($15.00) in coffers. My friend (a lawyer) plops in $5.00 (still enamoured with a.a.????????, I put in $1.00. Three people don't contribute. One of the three complains there are no cookies. Another shares for twenty minutes about walking around town (doesn't work) getting mad that cars don't stop when he attempts to cross street. Only twenty minutes left to share, another shares for fifteen minutes (about nothing) which leaves about five minutes left. A few minutes of rational sharing. Upon leaving, banter outside is more frustrating ( " can't take anyone telling me what to do " , making fun of how I was dressed (jacket & tie), vacations (from non working members) boy, I have trouble taking a week, but for work, most smoking ciggs., loud, etc. etc., I left shaking my head. Smacks of leaving a bar I certainly have thought about leaving, but have this fear and guilt pounded into me about doom & gloom if I leave. I feel I am a free thinker, however, the brainwashing must be working overtime with me. I can't seem to see myself going to a meeting real soon. I enjoy this list and find it very helpful albiet the endless bantering that sometimes goes on. I didn't know my hero (Winston Churchill) was a drunk, I did know however, he smoked over 30,000 cigars. Thanks for the reply Nick, > Hi Doug, > Just my perspective: > > You have no reason whatsoever to be grateful to AA. They didn't keep you > " sober " (I prefer the term abstinent, as " sober " means working a good > program etc............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 --- R r wrote: > Nick> Short synopsis: > > I certainly have thought about leaving, but have > this fear and guilt pounded > into me about doom & gloom if I leave. I feel I am a > free thinker, however, > the brainwashing must be working overtime with me. I > can't seem to see > myself going to a meeting real soon. : Check out www.rational.org. Here you may find some helpful information to process the fear, guilt, doom and gloom you are experiencing. You may also want to check out the discussion forum at this site as well. Ron __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 I certainly have thought about leaving, but have this fear and guilt pounded into me about doom & gloom if I leave. I feel I am a free thinker, however, the brainwashing must be working overtime with me Hi . You could check out LifeRing Secular Recovery at http://www.unhooked.com. We have online support meetings every night at 10 p.m. EST, with daytime meetings soon to be up and running. Also, we have a very active egroup list, as well as a message board and a vast library. Some members keep a foot in AA, others do not. Many see LSR as a helpful way to migrate out of AA/NA. Indeed, one of the folders at our message board is "Migrating from AA" where many of us engage in a lot of whining and spleen-venting about Groupers. Further, we have an ever-expanding list of f2f meetings all over the U.S. and Europe. (Along with a sister organization, Secular Organizations for Sobriety.) About 75% of us are free-thinkers, and the remainder hold to various religious beliefs that are either inconsistent with AA, or these members simply do not care for AA's rigidity. Anyway, feel free to check us out. --Mona-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 , I started reading the 12 step free list about 2 years ago. I had not been attending AA meetings for several years, but still felt guilt and when I encountered SOME (not all) of the AA folks, there was a lot of pressure to return to meetings. My guilt stemed from feeling that someone needed to stand up in those meetings to counter the incredible nonsense that passes for " experience, strength and hope " or " wisdom " and to offer some protection to some of the newcommers. I have long since shed those guilty feelings. what I didn't understand and am still amazed by, is how pervasive the AA indoctrination is. I found myself still thinking in step speak long after I quit going to meetings. This list is the tool that brings me to my senses on the step speak. I have not attended a meeting at all for nearly 3 years, and prior to that for about 5 years, I only attended about 2 meetings/year, at the behest of friends. I am not in jail, or an institution, and I am still alive. I have remained abstinent because I chose to remain abstinent. This list keeps me aware of the dangers of 12 step programs and I make myself available to help those in the community who want an alternative to XA. Kate > I certainly have thought about leaving, but have this fear and guilt pounded > into me about doom & gloom if I leave. I feel I am a free thinker, however, > the brainwashing must be working overtime with me. I can't seem to see > myself going to a meeting real soon. I enjoy this list and find it very > helpful albiet the endless bantering that sometimes goes on. I didn't know > my hero (Winston Churchill) was a drunk, I did know however, he smoked over > 30,000 cigars. > > Thanks for the reply Nick, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 ----- Original Message ----- <snip> > > I certainly have thought about leaving, but have this fear and guilt pounded > into me about doom & gloom if I leave. I feel I am a free thinker, however, > the brainwashing must be working overtime with me. I can't seem to see > myself going to a meeting real soon. Doug -- Your feelings of discomfort are completely natural and understandable. If you abused alcohol as a coping mechanism, you were probably uncomfortable at the thought of quitting. The thought of a life without drinking was hard to imagine. AA functions as a substitute for the habit of self-destructive drinking. Your comment about the after-meeting scene > Smacks of leaving a bar is dead-on. Despite the great talk about spiritual growth in AA, the majority of people there are pretty much the same people they were when they were sitting on a barstool -- and are having pretty much the same conversations, with the same people. You've been associating with a group of people with whom you have one thing in common -- alcohol abuse! And, of course, discussion in meetings is limited to " problems with alcohol. " No wonder you (and I, and many others on this list) have grown weary of sitting around with people who spend their life trying NOT to do something, when we are trying to make up for lost time by doing as many positive things as possible. May I suggest the gloom and doom will part if you make an active effort to seek out, and associate with, people who share a common *positive* interest, instead of spending time with people who only serve to dwell on a bad habit you've broken? -- Bob Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2001 Report Share Posted June 1, 2001 Hi Doug, >I can't seem to see > myself going to a meeting real soon. That " gloom and doom " and guilt feeling might be a strong indication that this fear-based program has some real problems. How long has it been since you felt supported as opposed to guilty? >I enjoy this list When I think of the AA in opposition to this list, I just shudder. Every story there has only one point, and any ideas outside the main simply are not tolerated. Yes, the bantering is fractious and does go on and on here, but some of it is *really* good and thought provoking. AA, OTOH, is thought-numbing. Questioning and debating is actively discouraged there. Showing real feelings is sometimes tolerated, as long as they aren't too strong, or too deep or too wide. and find it very > helpful albiet the endless bantering that sometimes goes on. I didn't know > my hero (Winston Churchill) was a drunk Please don't tag him so soon! He didn't accept the label and I saw some poingnant testimonials that he really did use it to his own benefit. >, I did know however, he smoked over > 30,000 cigars. Woah, I didn't know that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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