Re: 12steps NOT a small influence in religous movements

[Guest guest]

Woops, this is the missing link

LOL A bunch of Xian fundies are the missing link? I will buy that....let's be sure and let Jay Gould know.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Restless Leg Syndrome: The Portland Support RLS Group will meet...blah de blah.

Tell me you are joking. Please. There is not a support group for RLS. Tell me now.

--Mona-- (who wonders if there might be money in starting the Dry-skinned Hands support group)

[Guest guest]

LOL, do you think I would *make that up*?!? No, it was serious.

, I have restless leg syndrome, and it is bothersome, but a SUPPORT GROUP! My god, people are going to end up spending every moment not sleeping or working recovering from diseases and trauma, and/or receiving support for them.

In addition to RLS, I also have arthritis and a hernia in my tummy, as well as a history of alcohol dependency and an anxiety disorder. Plus, I am a bereaved mother, and a "survivor" of childhood physical abuse. And oh, I get warts on my fingers sometimes, and I'm peri-menopausal, as well as being the adult child of TWO alcoholics (real status there in ACOA groups). I bet I could spend every night and lunch hour in groups.

Is that a life, or what?!

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Woops, this is the missing link http://www.faithatwork.com/history/HistoryTOC.html

Dave Trippel

12steps NOT a small influence in religous movements

I think AA has had much more influence in society than some people might think. Here's just one site I found that admits it's a Christian offshoot of AA http://www.faithatwork.com/index.html .

http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/SMS-12Steps.html

http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/Church_AA.html

Dave Trippel

[Guest guest]

Here's the part of the link that reveals the parallel offshoot connection, if not actually a derivative offshoot.

"An activity related to the Thursday night "witness" services was the work of "Alcoholics Anonymous." AA began under Sam's inspiration and meetings were held every Tuesday night in the Great Hall of Calvary House. The starting points of Faith at Work and AA were similar, although the latter obviously addressed itself to a more particular audience. The first week-end conference of Faith at Work, the progenitor of hundreds of such conferences to be conducted all over the country, in subsequent years was held at Calvary House in 1943. The means and methods adopted for the conference included: 1) the Conversion of Individuals to Christ; 2) Listening to God; 3) Loyalty to the Church and the Bible; 4) Fellowship, Prayer, and Training Groups; 5) Literature; 6) Impact on Situations; 7) ation between Christian Groups and People. Of these methods, the first, second, and fourth have strong affinities with the procedures of the Oxford Group."

Dave Trippel

12steps NOT a small influence in religous movements

I think AA has had much more influence in society than some people might think. Here's just one site I found that admits it's a Christian offshoot of AA http://www.faithatwork.com/index.html .

http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/SMS-12Steps.html

http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/Church_AA.html

Dave Trippel

[Guest guest]

--- In 12-step-free@y..., " Trippel " <davetrippel@a...>

Hi ,

I thought of you when I saw the section in my local paper that

advertises the time and date for,

Restless Leg Syndrome: The Portland Support RLS Group will

meet...blah de blah.

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 6/2/01 9:58:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ahicks@s... writes:

>

>

> > Restless Leg Syndrome: The Portland Support RLS Group will

> > meet...blah de blah.

> >

>

> Tell me you are joking. Please. There is not a support group for

RLS. Tell

> me now.

LOL, do you think I would *make that up*?!? No, it was serious.

[Guest guest]

I just can't imagine what they would find to talk about in a support group! Do they have any info about what causes/alleviates [restless leg syndrome}

Last I looked, they only had theories, among them being calcium deficiencies. For whatever reason, I haven't had the problem in some five years now, and when I drank heavily it didn't occur.

But for a few years there, even just trying to relax and read on the sofa whilst reclining, I'd suddenly get this overwhelming itch/crawling feeling inside my legs, and have to get up and move them. Same thing sometimes happened while trying to fall to sleep in bed.

But this is hardly a major life issue, for god's sake. I mean, I've never heard of anyone suffering seriously with it, and it is a fleeting thing.

Still can't get over the idea of a support group for this!

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 6/2/01 11:52:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ahicks@s... writes:

>

>

> > LOL, do you think I would *make that up*?!? No, it was serious.

> >

> >

>

> , I have restless leg syndrome, and it is bothersome, but a

SUPPORT

> GROUP! My god, people are going to end up spending every moment not

sleeping

> or working recovering from diseases and trauma, and/or receiving

support for

> them.

I had it during both my pregnacies and when they were over it went

away. I just can't imagine what they would find to talk about in a

support group! Do they have any info about what causes/alleviates it?

I couldn't find anything, but didn't look that hard.

The roughest support group I ever went to was called " Brief

Encounters " a pregancy loss support group. Once was *enough* for me.

I do think a person could spend every waking minute going to support

groups and/or meetings. Ever see " Fight Club " ?

TTYL,

[Guest guest]

I simply *could not* sit still. Maybe this is the true cause of ADD!

You know, it really is funny. My ex used to get so pissed, and ask me why the hell I was "flailing my limbs" while he was trying to sleep. <giggle>

I'd tell him I **HAD** to move my legs, and he thought it was so bizarre.

Now listen to me...I'm venting as if in a support group after all....LOL

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

I met a woman once who couldn't sleep all night almost every night because of RLS. She was exhausted all the time, and was interested when I told her it was an actual medical syndrome that she could talk to a doctor about.

I've never heard of anyone having it that severely, but it would be intolerable if it persisted all night. Six or or 7 years ago I did some Internet research just to see what I might be able to take by way of supplements to stop it, and didn't encounter anything suggesting it could be that extensive of a problem. I believe for most of us it is seldom acute.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

>

> But for a few years there, even just trying to relax and read on the

sofa

> whilst reclining, I'd suddenly get this overwhelming itch/crawling

feeling

> inside my legs, and have to get up and move them. Same thing

sometimes

> happened while trying to fall to sleep in bed.

Yes, it can be annoying. But can you imagine a group of people

*sitting* around talking about it? <LOL>, talk about

counterproductive!

Acutally, the *worst* case I ever got of it was trying to sit through

a student production of " Waiting for Godot. " My friend was the

director, so I saw it twice and the same thing happened both times. I

simply *could not* sit still. Maybe this is the true cause of ADD!

[Guest guest]

LOL this reminds me that our neighbor yahoogroup that last month had 2337 posts.

benzoSupport network for those who want to end benzodiazepine addiction and recover from withdrawal syndrome

Re: 12steps NOT a small influence in religous movements

Hi again,> > But for a few years there, even just trying to relax and read on the sofa > whilst reclining, I'd suddenly get this overwhelming itch/crawling feeling > inside my legs, and have to get up and move them. Same thing sometimes > happened while trying to fall to sleep in bed.Yes, it can be annoying. But can you imagine a group of people *sitting* around talking about it? <LOL>, talk about counterproductive! ;)Acutally, the *worst* case I ever got of it was trying to sit through a student production of "Waiting for Godot." My friend was the director, so I saw it twice and the same thing happened both times. I simply *could not* sit still. Maybe this is the true cause of ADD!

[Guest guest]

At 04:14 PM 6/3/01 +0000, you wrote:

>The roughest support group I ever went to was called " Brief

>Encounters " a pregancy loss support group. Once was *enough* for me.

If you don't mind my asking, what was so particularly rough

about that one? The subject matter, or something in the way

the group behaved?

[Guest guest]

At 05:56 PM 6/3/01 +0000, you wrote:

>Yes, it can be annoying. But can you imagine a group of people

>*sitting* around talking about it? <LOL>, talk about

>counterproductive!

Maybe they walk while talking? :-) That might actually help!

I have this from time to time as well. It's really just a minor

annoyance. It keeps me from sleeping sometimes, but that's

about it. Calcium/magnesium supplements do seem to help.

Hmmm. Given that so many of us have this, perhaps the

restless legs support group is the one which can finally reach

a majority of the still-unstepped population. :-)

[Guest guest]

I met a woman once who couldn't sleep all night almost every night

because of RLS. She was exhausted all the time, and was interested

when I told her it was an actual medical syndrome that she could talk

to a doctor about.

Now, being exhausted all the time is a really serious problem, one

that's underestimated in this economy that values the 70 hour week.

But I don't see how a support group could help.

> In a message dated 6/3/01 9:15:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ahicks@s... writes:

>

>

> > I just can't imagine what they would find to talk about in a

> > support group! Do they have any info about what causes/alleviates

> > [restless leg syndrome}

> >

> >

>

> Last I looked, they only had theories, among them being calcium

deficiencies.

> For whatever reason, I haven't had the problem in some five years

now, and

> when I drank heavily it didn't occur.

>

> But for a few years there, even just trying to relax and read on the

sofa

> whilst reclining, I'd suddenly get this overwhelming itch/crawling

feeling

> inside my legs, and have to get up and move them. Same thing

sometimes

> happened while trying to fall to sleep in bed.

>

> But this is hardly a major life issue, for god's sake. I mean, I've

never

> heard of anyone suffering seriously with it, and it is a fleeting

thing.

> Still can't get over the idea of a support group for this!

>

> --Mona--

[Guest guest]

> >The roughest support group I ever went to was called " Brief

> >Encounters " a pregancy loss support group. Once was *enough* for

me.

>

> If you don't mind my asking, what was so particularly rough

> about that one? The subject matter, or something in the way

> the group behaved?

>

>

Well, both. One couple had miscarried 5 times and had never been to a

doctor because they didn't believe that doctors should get mixed up in

the reproductive process. They named all of their fetuses.

Another woman there was very slightly mentally retarded. Her baby was

stillborn and they gave her a hysterectomy without her consent.

The anguish and frustration in that room was more than I could take, I

was fragile enough myself. I have no idea if anyone else there was

helped by it, but I was completely overwhelmed.

[Guest guest]

I have had it myself on occasion, and find, like , that calcium

supplements help. Oddly, when I was a kid, there was a doctor that

wrote a column for my daily newspaper who insisted that calcium

deficiencies accounted for all kinds of muscle problems, and that the

first line of defense in such a case was calcium supplements. So

naturally, it was the first thing I tried and it worked.

> In a message dated 6/3/01 1:28:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> kayleighs@m... writes:

>

>

> > I met a woman once who couldn't sleep all night almost every night

> > because of RLS. She was exhausted all the time, and was

interested

> > when I told her it was an actual medical syndrome that she could

talk

> > to a doctor about.

> >

>

> I've never heard of anyone having it that severely, but it would be

> intolerable if it persisted all night. Six or or 7 years ago I did

some

> Internet research just to see what I might be able to take by way of

> supplements to stop it, and didn't encounter anything suggesting it

could be

> that extensive of a problem. I believe for most of us it is seldom

acute.

>

> --Mona--

[Guest guest]

Oddly, when I was a kid, there was a doctor that

> wrote a column for my daily newspaper who insisted that calcium

> deficiencies accounted for all kinds of muscle problems, and that

the

> first line of defense in such a case was calcium supplements.

Hmmm, maybe that's why I got it during pregnancies. The calcium

demands on the body are much higher then.

[Guest guest]

support groups are as offensive to true substance addicts as thecasual use of the word 'mind rape' is to true rape and brainwash victims. Mike.

Re: Re: 12steps NOT a small influence in religous movements

LOL, do you think I would *make that up*?!? No, it was serious. , I have restless leg syndrome, and it is bothersome, but a SUPPORT GROUP! My god, people are going to end up spending every moment not sleeping or working recovering from diseases and trauma, and/or receiving support for them. In addition to RLS, I also have arthritis and a hernia in my tummy, as well as a history of alcohol dependency and an anxiety disorder. Plus, I am a bereaved mother, and a "survivor" of childhood physical abuse. And oh, I get warts on my fingers sometimes, and I'm peri-menopausal, as well as being the adult child of TWO alcoholics (real status there in ACOA groups). I bet I could spend every night and lunch hour in groups. Is that a life, or what?! --Mona--

[Guest guest]

> Restless Leg Syndrome: The Portland Support RLS Group will

> meet...blah de blah.

Do you get this when caught in an XA meeting too far from the door for

a discreet exit?

P.

[Guest guest]

" A play in which nothing happens.

Twice. "

Pozzo in student production (circa 1984).

[Guest guest]

Dave, I don't have time to look at those sites now, but I don't doubt

that you are right about the pervasive influence of AA. Sometimes I

get a creepy feeling when I hear " normies " parroting boilerplate I've

heard in AA. A couple of phrases that come to mind are " It's a God

thing " and " It's all about ME. "

> I think AA has had much more influence in society than some people

might think. Here's just one site I found that admits it's a

Christian offshoot of AA http://www.faithatwork.com/index.html .

>

> http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/SMS-12Steps.html

>

> http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/Church_AA.html

>

> Dave Trippel

[Guest guest]

Oops, I can tell I've been out of the program for a number of years!

I never heard " It's a God thing, " or " It's all about ME. " And " Meeting

Makers Make It " is a new one to me. I guess they come up with new slogans

over time.

In my day it was " One Day At A Time " , and " Easy Does It " . Hmmm....I don't

know if I still have my " Easy Does It " belt buckle or not...

Cheers,

nz

[Guest guest]

No, you have it backwards, Dave.

Faith At Work is the continuation of Rev. Sam Shoemaker's effort. Shoemaker, you might remember, was the Episcopalian priest who was a mentor for Bill . Kurtz calls him the leader of the Oxford Groups in the U.S. in the 1930s, but this is not so. There were a handful of leaders, not just Shoemaker. Anyway, Faith At Work is an independent outgrowth from the Oxford Groups and Shoemaker. It is not derived from AA.

12steps NOT a small influence in religous movements

I think AA has had much more influence in society than some people might think. Here's just one site I found that admits it's a Christian offshoot of AA http://www.faithatwork.com/index.html .

http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/SMS-12Steps.html

http://www.faithatwork.com/history/Shoemaker/Church_AA.html

Dave Trippel