update-RE appt today, depressed

[Guest guest]

I know I'm pretty new to the group, but I truly am stunned at the ignorance to this issue amongst the medical community. How can doctors that perform D & C's (and other surgeries) every day not even be aware of the potential of this problem to occur any time they touch your uterus!?! I can't believe I had to tell my ob what AS was and when I told her that my symptoms matched AS exactly she still refused to admit it was even a possibility. I can't believe I have to be ridiculed for insisting that I at least be tested to rule out AS when they can't even think of anything else that would be causing my symptoms!!! It really is unfuriating!

Cz

[Guest guest]

,

The ob that caused my AS had to look at his college medical book (20 year old

copy!) to explain it to me. Then

proceeded to tell me " don't worry about it " . He told me he had never seen it. I

found a new obgyn and was diagnosed

within 8 weeks from my first appt. I don't think doctors are quick to admit they

could have caused this.

I had a conversation with Dr. Isaacson on the A-list. I never had any infections

or abnormal bleeding after my D & C and

yet I had a mild case. He thinks that yes it was an aggessive D & C, but most

likely it is something I am more prone to.

He said in the future if need be he could perform the D & C so I have the best

possible odds of it not happening again.

I would find a more compassionate obgyn. If you can get to someone on the A-list

I'm sure they would give you the

name of a good gyn. (((((()))))). We've all been there. The waiting is

the hardest part. Once you know what you

are dealing with, you can face it and move on.

[Guest guest]

I guess I understand that they are defensive about having caused it, but I can't tell if they really don't know what it is or just don't want to believe it... It just seems like a bad day to be absent from medical school (my ob is relatively young) when they tell you that the surgery they're performing could potentially scar the patient for life if they aren't careful.

I'm glad you said that about Dr. Isaacson thinking that you are more prone to it. My ob really has been great about all the problems I've had (2 miscarriages for genetic reasons), I've just recently lost faith in her due to her ignorance on this subject. It seemed like I was reading a lot about the "buthcher ob's" that had caused AS, but it seems that if a particular doctor tends to be very aggressive with their D & C's they would cause AS in many patients. As my doctor has never had anyone have these complications wouldn't that indicate that I'm somehow different (more prone?) than most patients?

I'm also confused about what seems to cause AS, D & C or D & E, or both? My doctor performed D & E's (dialation and evacuation) which is the suction technique, not the scraping approach. She said that is what most people have, but they still call it D & C. Does anyone have any insight as to if we're all talking about the same thing or not?

I'm seeing Dr. Palter (A list doc) on thursday - so hopefully soon I will know exactly what I'm dealing with.

Thanks! Cz

[Guest guest]

,

I have had both D & C's and a D & E. They are not the same. I had no

problems with the D & E. That is where they use suction and the D & C

uses scraping of the uterine walls. It would be rare that you would

have AS if you haven't had any scraping done to your uterus although

it does happen. I hate to even say rare just because I get tired of

hearing that myself. Did you take any antibiotics after your D & E's?

AS can result from an infection following a procedure too although I

think the most common way is when there is scraping involved on a

recently pregnant uterus especially if there is retained placenta

because there is probably already infection present. I also have

trouble with the excuse that some people are more prone to scarring.

That may be but I think it is usually an overly aggressive D & C. I had

a D & C many years ago and there were no problems. The one OB said that

if I were so prone to scarring then it would have happened then. I am

glad that you were able to get an appointment for Thursday and hope

that you get some answers. Take care and good luck.

Roxie

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I decided to reply as soon as I can because I was down similar road

and would not want you to go through the same experience. Do not let

anyone deceive you that everything is okay. Some Gyns don't even know

much about ashermans not to talk of a nurse practitioner. I had

history of miscarriages and it took about 5 losses for them to find

out something was wrong. During the earlier losses I was always told

everything is okay. Thank God I found this site and last year I saw

an A list dr-dr palter in ny and had surgery to remove the scarring

that halved my uterus. I am now 14wks and some days pregnant and by

the grace of God is looking forward to full term pregnancy and safe

delivery. There is also Dr Copperman in NYC and had surgery

with him.

In essence try to get an appt with an A list dr. With your symptoms,

it is possible you have some scarring blocking the blood from coming

out. Have you tried to get a HSG or Sonohistogram done? Concerning

the insurance it is important you do not use the word infertility.

You talk abt the pain that is killing you and also the recurrent

miscarriage. You may search the archives to read abt members

experience on how to deal with insr People. Praying that you get help

soon. Best wishes…

Gladys

[Guest guest]

Roxie,

That is interesting that D & E's are less likely to cause AS. I guess that is why my ob thinks I'm crazy for thinking that I could have AS. I thought I had read somewhere that they were just as likely, but I'm not sure where I saw that. I guess you could say I've had several complications. My first D & E (1 year ago) left retained products so I had to have a second about 3 weeks after the first. I did take antibiotics after the second one.

Then I had another miscarriage in December and had my third D & E. This time I had absolutely no bleeding afterwards (as opposed to 3 weeks of bleeding the first time). Several days after the D & E I had a lot of back ache and severe chills, fever about 100. My ob saw me immediately because I was concerned about infection and scarring - which I'd heard about somehow even though I'd still never heard of AS. She didn't think there was any infection -said I was probably coming down with a virus but would give antibiotics just to be safe. Well, I never came down with anything and didn't really think much of it until the weeks kept going by and no period. I guess it's always possible that I had retained products from this one, but I never worried about it because I didn't have any bleeding.

I guess I'll find out soon enough!

I think I missed most of the postings about your recent surgery, but I'll be sending positive thoughts your way!

Cz

Re: update-RE appt today, depressed

,I have had both D & C's and a D & E. They are not the same. I had no problems with the D & E. That is where they use suction and the D & C uses scraping of the uterine walls. It would be rare that you would have AS if you haven't had any scraping done to your uterus although it does happen. I hate to even say rare just because I get tired of hearing that myself. Did you take any antibiotics after your D & E's? AS can result from an infection following a procedure too although I think the most common way is when there is scraping involved on a recently pregnant uterus especially if there is retained placenta because there is probably already infection present. I also have trouble with the excuse that some people are more prone to scarring. That may be but I think it is usually an overly aggressive D & C. I had a D & C many years ago and there were no problems. The one OB said that if I were so prone to scarring then it would have happened then. I am glad that you were able to get an appointment for Thursday and hope that you get some answers. Take care and good luck.Roxie

[Guest guest]

Gladys,

Yes, it is infuriating that things keep going wrong and people keep telling me that everything is fine. Luckily my ob was cooperative about doing tests after my second miscarriage rather than waiting for that magic number 3. We know that it was a genetic abnormality that isn't related to us, but since that is sooooo common that doesn't necessarily rule out the fact that there could be another problem.

I'm seeing Dr. Palter on Thurs. so I should have some answers soon! I haven't had a HSG or anything because my docs say I couldn't have AS because it is so rare! Yet they are going around in circles doing blood tests trying to find anything else to attribute it to. It's hard to convince them that the pain and pressure of menstrual cramps trying to push everything out through a seemingly blocked cervix is not just in my head. They didn't come out and say that, but they still don't believe me that I ovulated so they must think it's in my head!

It is very encouraging to hear of all your pregnancies - I'll be praying for all of you! I was starting to lose all hope before finding this group.

Cz

[Guest guest]

Hey....

I think I can actually answer this one.. The doctor who performed my

DnC told me she was going to " gently suction " it out. I asked my RE

how could I get Asherman's from a suction... He told me they always

have to do some sort of scrape after a suction to make sure all the

products have been removed...Isnt that just peachy?

T..

> Roxie,

>

> That is interesting that D & E's are less likely to cause AS. I

guess that is why my ob thinks I'm crazy for thinking that I could

have AS. I thought I had read somewhere that they were just as

likely, but I'm not sure where I saw that. I guess you could say

I've had several complications. My first D & E (1 year ago) left

retained products so I had to have a second about 3 weeks after the

first. I did take antibiotics after the second one.

>

> Then I had another miscarriage in December and had my third D & E.

This time I had absolutely no bleeding afterwards (as opposed to 3

weeks of bleeding the first time). Several days after the D & E I had

a lot of back ache and severe chills, fever about 100. My ob saw me

immediately because I was concerned about infection and scarring -

which I'd heard about somehow even though I'd still never heard of

AS. She didn't think there was any infection -said I was probably

coming down with a virus but would give antibiotics just to be safe.

Well, I never came down with anything and didn't really think much of

it until the weeks kept going by and no period. I guess it's always

possible that I had retained products from this one, but I never

worried about it because I didn't have any bleeding.

>

> I guess I'll find out soon enough!

>

> I think I missed most of the postings about your recent surgery,

but I'll be sending positive thoughts your way!

>

> Cz

> Re: update-RE appt today, depressed

>

>

> ,

> I have had both D & C's and a D & E. They are not the same. I had no

> problems with the D & E. That is where they use suction and the

D & C

> uses scraping of the uterine walls. It would be rare that you

would

> have AS if you haven't had any scraping done to your uterus

although

> it does happen. I hate to even say rare just because I get tired

of

> hearing that myself. Did you take any antibiotics after your

D & E's?

> AS can result from an infection following a procedure too

although I

> think the most common way is when there is scraping involved on a

> recently pregnant uterus especially if there is retained placenta

> because there is probably already infection present. I also have

> trouble with the excuse that some people are more prone to

scarring.

> That may be but I think it is usually an overly aggressive D & C.

I had

> a D & C many years ago and there were no problems. The one OB said

that

> if I were so prone to scarring then it would have happened then.

I am

> glad that you were able to get an appointment for Thursday and

hope

> that you get some answers. Take care and good luck.

> Roxie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, isn't that just peachy. I had asked my ob several times what the exact procedure was and she never mentioned the scraping part.

Thanks for the info!

Cz

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much to everyone who responded. Today feels just as awful

as yesterday--I just feel like I'm going to throw up when I think

about it (which is 24/7). Yes, I will keep my chin up until I speak

with Dr. Palter. Whoever posted that the waiting is the hardest part

was absolutely right. My husband and I are just in limbo, waiting to

hear if we'll ever be able to have a biological child.

Re: the discussion about D & C's vs D & E's. This is something I've

thought about a lot. I can remember like it was yesterday, being the

hospital room before my D & C and meeting the doctor for the first time

(I was seeing a nurse midwife at the time). I asked her if she could

avoid scraping and just use suction to which she replied, absolutely

not--we don't want you coming back here again! Does anyone else wish

they had a TIME MACHINE???

Anyway, thank you all again for the care and support.

Haley

[Guest guest]

Cz--

Thanks for your words. I was also stunned by the ignorance of the

medical professionals that I saw about my light periods. My nurse

midwife had never heard of Asherman's and cut me off every time I

suggested scar tissue formation. I never went back to the OB who had

performed the D & C because she was rude to begin with, and I felt sure

she wouldn't admit to any wrongdoing. The second OB I went to see

all but laughed me out of her office saying it wasn't a possibility

because it is so rare. She actually told me I was doing it to myself

(making my periods light) because I was charting my basal body

temperature and " obsessing " about it!! So when I finally saw this RE

and he actually took me seriously, I was so incredibly relieved and

happy that I was ready to accept anything he said. I was happy to

have him perform my surgery. I didn't even consider the possibility

that he would do MORE damage to me. (SIGH)

Well, that's my rant for today. Now I better go do some relaxation

therapy before my heart explodes!

Haley

> I know I'm pretty new to the group, but I truly am stunned at the

ignorance to this issue amongst the medical community. How can

doctors that perform D & C's (and other surgeries) every day not even

be aware of the potential of this problem to occur any time they

touch your uterus!?! I can't believe I had to tell my ob what AS was

and when I told her that my symptoms matched AS exactly she still

refused to admit it was even a possibility. I can't believe I have

to be ridiculed for insisting that I at least be tested to rule out

AS when they can't even think of anything else that would be causing

my symptoms!!! It really is unfuriating!

>

> Cz

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Halye,

I know what you mean about your heart exploding. It does literally feel that way doesn't it? I often find that I have to remind myself to breathe because I keep realizing that I've been holding my breath.

Cz

> >

[Guest guest]

/Roxie,

I had a D & E and that was when they left the retained placenta in me. I'm not sure if it was because they did not do a D & C that a piece was left in me. The actual ashermans was caused by the infected placenta being left inside my uterus for 3 weeks.

It is not really rare to have AS if you have not had scrapping because any type of infection could cause scarring too. You are right in saying that AS is more common in cases where a D & C was performed on a recently pregnant uterus but even more likely if there was a repeated D & C like in my case.

Poly